Book Haven discussion
Twilight
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Is there anything that you did not like about the Twilight series?-SPOILERS
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I also agree with everthing Jennifer wrote. All of her points are totally valid (unfortunately). There were so many things in the books that were cringe-w..."
Definitely cringe wor..."
Lisa-To be honest, the hype makes me enjoy the books less. When I went to Barnes and Noble recently, they had an ENTIRE section devoted to everything Twilight. It really annoyed me. I like the books, I do.
I am all for noticing a books flaws. To be honest, no book is perfect...
Jo-I keep wondering the same thing. Why Twilight? I understood the Harry Potter hype, and it didn't bother me at all. For some reason the hype with Twilight does bother me...hmmmm...
Jo wrote: "Yeah i know what you mean i love the books but the hype puts me off a bit and i find myself picking out flaws when theres a conversation about it cos it has many flaws but its still a good book. Yo..."Maybe it was ok for Harry Potter, because is was more of a children's book. I mean, who doesn't love to see little kids get excited about books?! If you see a ten year old girl dressed up like a wizzard waiting in line for the book to come out, it's cute. If you see a ninteen year old girl wearing a "Team Edward" tee shirt...not so cute.
I think it also has to do with the fact that JK Rowling is a much better writer. Yes, she had her flaws, I've heard more than one complaint on her excessive use of adverbs, but in general the Harry Potter series was wonderfully well thought out and I can't wait to go back and read the whole thing again and see what little things I missed now that I know how it ends. I have absolutely no desire to do that with Twilight.Also, Rowling's characters are much more complex than any of Meyers. The Harry Potter characters have flaws they must over come, tough decisions to make (where not everything turns out perfect afterward) and they make mistakes and do the wrong thing sometimes because even the good characters are still flawed human beings.
Rowling also has a much more comprehensive story about good and evil and all the shades of gray in between. Characters like Snape, and even Malfoy, aren't evil, but there not necessarily good either, which is a truth to life, good and evil aren't so black and white, like they are in Twilight. There are a few half hearted attempts at this, but for the most part the main characters are sickenly good and near perfect and the bad characters are bad.
The basic synopis I guess is that I didn't mind the hype for a piece of literature that actually seemed worth it, rather than one that is really just a fun fluff read.
Jo wrote: "Yeah i guess Harry Potter is a lot more complex and a better story and twilight is one of them books you wouldnt expect to get all that hype cos its just a normal average book as far as writing and..."Hey! I'm one of the old farts that enjoyed reliving my youth! LOL! You are so right! Oh well. At least I can 'fess up to it. That counts for something...right?
Me, too, Anne! I'm one of those "old farts" for sure!
I'm not exactly a spring chicken either. LOL!That reminds me, when hubby and I went to see the movie there were two 60ish ladies in front of us in line. I figured they were there to see something else, so when I heard them order tickets for Twilight, I was surprised. When one of them excitedly started talking up the books to the young ticket girl who said she hadn't read them, it was just too cute.:-)
That's SO going to be me someday! Not that I'd want to actually be that age again, but boy it is fun to pretend sometimes by reading these types of books. I'm especially a sucker for the young love thing since I was just 16 when I met my husband and it was completely love at first sight and a crazy, roller coaster ride of true love.
Mature and wise. Hmmm. I like it, Jo! You are too kind. LOL!I love your story about the 60ish ladys at the theater, Julie. I hope I'm still giggling over romance books when I'm in my Golden Years!
Awww. You and your husband have a great story, Melissa! I'm a sucker for young love, too. Nevernevernever in a million years would I want to actually go back and be a teenager again, BUT it is a lot of fun to remember how romantic true love seemed to be at that age! (sigh) Oh well. I think the trade-off for getting older (ahem...mature and wise) is worth it. I feel so much more comfortable in my skin...even if it is getting wrinkled. LOL!
Let's see, this year I'll be turning 29...again. In fact, I've turned 29 for the past 6 years. Ta da! Amazing, huh? It's called "creative math". Feel free to use it in a few years! LOL
Yep. It's all downhill after you turn 21. I went to sleep after my 21st b-day party, and woke up yesterday to find I was married with 4 kids. Happens to the best of us, I'm told.
Wow! Everything that bugged me is written out here! I thought I was the only one! I completely disliked New Moon! If what Meyer said earlier about vampire’s biology is true then sperm is out of the question. Why did Meyer feel the need to have Bella get pregnant in the first place? Why did Jacob have to imprint on her? Why did Bella still seek out Jacob's company if she knew he was pining for her and she loved Edward more? Seems cruel...Also, since we're at it...what was up with building up this huge epic vampire battle only to have it fizzle out at the end? What a friggin' anticlimactic ending! Also, very convenient that Reneesme will only grow to be 16 (or 17...can’t recall) seeing as everyone but Esme and Carlisle in the family are alllll teenagers. Also, after waiting so many books why were the love scenes completely obselete??? I get it's young adults but geez!
Also, there were soooo many other little story lines that were not addressed...little nuances that were completely skipped over or didn't make sense...things that didn't add up. Overall I was unimpressed and completely depressed that the finally novel, which I had waited with bated breath for, was a letdown...
And now there are movies...ruined it for me. :(
Jessica wrote: "Wow! Everything that bugged me is written out here! I thought I was the only one! I completely disliked New Moon! If what Meyer said earlier about vampire’s biology is true then sperm is out of the..."Meyers put in so many little story lines to build off of, but instead of using them to make the story and characters more complex, she fills the hundreds of pages by repeating herself over and over. We get it Bella and Edward kind of like each other.
There was the possible friendship between her and Angela, which could have complicated Bella's choice to change, but then Meyers just dropped it.
Or delving more into why Edward couldn't hear Bella's thoughts. Meyers just wrote it off, but in Twilight's alter ego, Midnight Sun, there is mention that Edward cannot completely hear her father's thoughts either, which could have really gone somewhere. And also explained why Bella is unnaturally attracted to super natural beings.
Also, the reason there are werewolves is simply explained, by the werewolves, as being the vampires fault. Now in what universe is that a reliable explanation? I thought there would be some delving there, but again she just let it drop.
Or what is it about Forks. I mean there are other rainy and dark places in the world, but the vampires keep coming back there. And you would think once an Indian reservation knows your secret you would find yourself a new town.
Just a couple directions she could have gone ... but I guess hearing Bella and Edward essentially go "I love you more" "No I love you more" for hundreds of pages was all right too ... (eye roll).
Lisa Anne I completely agree with you. About pretty much everything…especially with how tiresome it became to read some of the same descriptions over and over again. The book could have been at least 100 pages shorter.Jo, I agree with you...Harry Potter is a lot more complex and she does take every nuance and explore and explain it. Rowling’s books are so robust in plot and this entire other world she created. Frankly, it's amazing how filling the books were. I closed the last book feeling completely content and couldn't think of one thing I disliked about them.
I'm also sick to death of seeing Twilight everywhere I go when there are soooo many fantastic series out there that actually merit the hype.
Frankly, I have a feeling none of the frenzy will calm down until all the movies are over. I look forward to that day.
I thought the end was believable because it explained why Bella and Jacob were so drawn to each other. I also believed the walking away thing because they really didn't want to kill half of the Cullens just to get the ones with the cool powers on their side and the vampires are a small population that wouldn't want to lose their numbers. I didn't mind that they all got a happy ending. It was a bit convenient that Bella got exactly everything that she ever wanted, but hey, if the author had to end the series, why not.
I think she just writes too much. She has all these build ups and then a not-so-big-deal ending to the conflict. She writes with all the darkness of urban fantasy, but has the happily ever after of a romance. I think a lot of people expected WAY too much from that fourth book. I was one who waited a long time to read and went into knowing a lot of people were disappointed. It was better that way.
There was a part of me that wanted a battle too, but I agree with Melissa. There is no way she could have done it without killing off half the characters we had come to know and love. When it looked like there might be a battle, I was considering who I might be able to let go of, if they died. All I kept thinking was, "I don't want anyone to die." I just couldn't let any of them go. Maybe that's what Stephenie was thinking too. After all, as the writer, she had way more invested in the characters than even we as the readers do. I personally love an HEA, so I was perfectly happy with the fairy tale ending.
Mod
I don't like EVERYTHING about the Twilight series. I thought I would never find a book series that I would hate as much as Lord of the Rings, but this is it. At least J.R.R. Tolkien had skill as a writer. I read the Twilight books under duress, on the insistence of a cow orker.
Having the series finish up as a cheap copy of the miniseries "V" really didn't help.
Joy wrote: "I think that HEA endings are great, but I did after the build up I really thought I'd get more out of the ending. (sigh) I didn't want to lose my favorite characters either. However, there were a l..."HERE HERE! I completely agree. It's like waiting all your life to be an adult (because that's when life's supposed to be really exciting) only to become an adult and realize no one around you has turned into a faery or a vampire and all anyone wants to talk about is weddings and imaginary weight gain! I HAVE BEEN ROBBED! This is not AT ALL as cool as I thought it would be.
My point you ask? I was dismally disappointed with the final book and I never say things like that unless I mean them!
Meyers inability to go with anything, but the simplistic happy ending is another reason I can't stand her being compared to Rowling though. Rowling took chances and had the battle between good and evil and some good characters who we loved died and some bad characters made it through because that's what happens when good and evil clash. She still had good when out in the end, but there were bumps in the road getting there, which formed her characters into the people they became and made them relatable and three dimensional. Compared to Rowling, Meyers is simply a fluff writer who gave the reader what they thought they wanted and did the simple, easy, unintersting happy ending. Not that fluff isn't fun sometimes, but by no means is it intricate good writing either.
Lisa Anne wrote: "Meyers inability to go with anything, but the simplistic happy ending is another reason I can't stand her being compared to Rowling though. Rowling took chances and had the battle between good and..."I completely agree with you. Harry will always be my favorite fiction character because after everything he went through and after all he lost he still never gave in or took the easy way. He is such a meaty character with so many different twists and bends to his personality. He's definitely a more interesting read and you are right, Harry and Bella have NO business being put in the same sentence. I'm even ashamed of myself for doing it just now. Well said Lisa Anne.
Don't get me wrong. I do love the Twilight series (except for the last book.) They just do NOT compare to HP.
Jo wrote: "I always wonder why this series went so crazy when theres loads of series of the same kind of thing why is that twilight blew up like that "It actually makes me laugh, when you walk into a book store now and see all these vampire books front and center along with the Twilight series. I don't get it. Why wasn't it popular 10 years ago or even longer than that. There have been better books than this series out for much longer!
Anyway, I read all the books and found book 4 to be good until the end (yes the "fight" scene sucked). I liked that she had a creepy kid (lol).
What I didn't like about the series as a whole was the "shiny" vamp crap and the no fangs, and of course that SM made Bella to be a complete WIMP. I am dissapointed that girls are reading this and thinking that it's okay to NEED a boy/man as much as Bella needed Edward. It's sad.
Elvia wrote: "Jo wrote: "I always wonder why this series went so crazy when theres loads of series of the same kind of thing why is that twilight blew up like that "It actually makes me laugh, when you walk in..."
You know, I never thought of that but now that you mention it I do remember cringing whenever she didn't stand up for herself or at least TRY for a little backbone. Too true Elvia. Too true.
I totally get why Bella needed Edward so much. It's all in the name of true love/destiny/soul mate. I'm okay with her from the moment she sees him, needing him in her life and needing to be sure he needs her too. I was only sixteen when I met my husband and I can honestly say that it's a lot to deal with such strong emotions at such a young age and that I could totally relate to Bella being obsessed with her relationship with Edward.
Melissa wrote: "I thought the end was believable because it explained why Bella and Jacob were so drawn to each other. I also believed the walking away thing because they really didn't want to kill half of the Cu..."i have to question u finding it belivable cause of them being drawn to each other u think a baby she hadnt even concived yet can explain for the pull they had im sorry but how does that makes sense
It could have been explained with plain old, simple, high school puppy love attraction and I don't know why that was never good enough for Meyer. By the end of the book I was so sick of imprinting and soulmate relationships that I was hoping she would go somewhere different for Jacob. That's part of the reason I was pushing for a Jacob/Leah relationship. I thought that could have been the one real, I love you enough to deal with your crap that I find annoying (because come on you're never gonna love what someone does 24/7 and if you do someone is lying), plus I thought the two of them were the strongest and most dynamic characters in the whole series.
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Joy wrote: "I was hoping Jacob would end up with Leah too! I really thought that was going to happen...I didn't like Jacob imprinting on Renessmee...Blah"Agreed. :\
With all the "make believe" in the story (werewolves, vampires, etc) you can't "make believe" in fate? That fate brought Jacob into Bella's life and vice versa for the simple fact that her child would someday make Jacob whole? I let myself believe that fate was at work and was okay with that explaination.
I totally agree Melissa. Call it fate, destiny, unseen forces at work or whatever you will, but that's exactly how I saw it too. Then again, I'm a hopeless romantic who believe in those things and in soulmates too, so that makes it easy for me.:-)
I'm glad I'm not the only one, Julie!
Joy wrote: "I was hoping Jacob would end up with Leah too! I really thought that was going to happen...I didn't like Jacob imprinting on Renessmee...Blah"i second the agrement to this joy the imprinting on renesssme ruined everything cool about jacob and made it so in the ended i hated him to which is sad
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It was just like Renessmee sort of took over...
Joy wrote: "I didn't end up hating Jacob(he's too sexy to hate LOL). I just didn't think that Meyer needed to bring in Renessmee. She could have ended the series perfectly with Jacob and Leah together. :( IDK ..."I did not like the way the 1st time the fool around bellas all the sudden pregnant and magicly decides she wants kids even though the thing basicaly kills her and she did take over and bella is such a bothersom mother. Sorry folks but i kinda was routing for james to kill her and most everyone one else sept alice jasper and jacob but the last book made me not care about even jacob anymore
I had a friend, who never read 'Twilight', but was so annoyed by all the hoopla that she wanted to make 'Team Victoria' shirts to a release (she was dragged to one of the releases by one of her other friends who is OBSESSED) and occasionally I've been with her. And sure the whole soulmate thing for Bella and Edward and some of the imprinting (which bothered me in general sometimes though because of how the whole, Leah, Emily, Sam thing was described, plus it wasn't necessary really), but enough is enough. One the imprinting was supposed to be rare, but it happened to everyone and their children so she should have scratched that idea (it's called editing before you send a book off), two with all that crap the relationships seemed too easy. Very few fights unless someone from outside triggered it. Real love has issues that need to be worked through and even if you are "soulmates" (slight roll of the eyes) someone else WILL bug the hell out of you sometimes if they're around that much. I could buy it at first, but by the end I was just sick of it.
All the quotes people take from the book! She never said ANYTHING incredibly profound, therefore there is very little to quote. And that stupid lion falling in love with the lamb quote makes me want to shoot both the lion and the lamb! Bah!
Lisa Anne wrote: "I definitely agree on the whole Jacob/Renesmee cop out. I actually wanted Jacob and Leah to fall in love (not imprint). I thought in the end she was a more dynamic and two dimensional character t..."Me too. But what bugs me the most is the lack of action. In Twilight, nothing happened until the end, the rest was just them professing their love for each other (gag). It's an interesting idea, but not as well pulled off as it could be. I consider it just average.
OK, I love books... BUT.... When I first read Twilight and got through the whole thing with James I was looking for something bigger. Nothing "exciting" happened until the end of the book and when that exciting thing happened you had no idea where it even came from. The movie did a better job hyping the bad vampires up. I didn't mind the imprinting on Renesmee. It made sense to me since Jacob was so attached to Bella, but not imprinted on her. It was kind of like there was a piece of her that he was imprinted to. At least everyone has someone in the end. Look on the bright side!
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Do you think that they will keep the Renesmee/Jacob imprint and whatnot?
Jo wrote: "I think they will keep the imprint as that will be important if there are to be any spin off movies or what ever. I think they will change a lot of it though. I think they will change the battle at..."I agree! I think they'll pump up the action scenes, too. I hope they keep the imprinting, because it keep it true to the book. I don't think they will, though. It might help them if they wanted a spinoff, but I think it would creep out the majority of people who haven't read the book. I bet they ditch it at the last minute, and tone it down to where Jacob just thinks she's a sweet baby and wants to protect her. If they do a spinoff movie they can have them fall in love after she is an adult.
You may be right, Jo. But I still think Hollywood would rather have the masses think that Jacob is still sort of carrying a torch for Bella rather than explain what imprinting on her baby means. Even though it is explained in the book that he wouldn't feel anything sexual toward her until she was an adult, in a movie it would set off all kinds of ick factors. I just don't think they would be willing to go that route. The guardian thing you mentioned, Jo, is probably closer to what I think they'll do. Then again, maybe Meyers will kick up a stink if they try to change it. Who know? I'll be interested to see how they handle it.
Mod
That's what I was thinking. People who haven't read the series, and some people who have would find Jacob imprinting on a baby to be on the "ick" side, which means that they might keep it out. However, it might tick off a lot of hardcore Twilight fans...who knows...
What do you think that they'll do about the honeymoon love scene? Do you think that they'll skip that too?
Meyers kind of skipped the love scenes in the book though. You know what they're going to do then all of the sudden it's the next morning and Bella is covered in bruises. And I still have issues with the fact that vampires can have sex ... let alone amazing sex. Can't produce blood, sweat or tears, can't produce semen, can't really orgasm. So I guess the girl vampires could have amazing sex. ...Not to mention the ridiculousness of Renesmee's conception in the first place.
And even though Jacob would have no sexual feelings for Renesmee as a baby he still knows in the back of his mind that they will have sex someday. Maybe not full ick ... but definitely just weird.
Hollywood skip a love scene?! Ha! No way, Joy! I don't remember anything graphic in the book, anyway. I'm guessing that they'll tone down the violence of the aftermath, though. Otherwise they will catch a lot of flack from the Domestic Abuse people!I wonder if Meyers is going to get any credit for the fact that these two don't have sex until after they are married? Somehow I doubt that any of the televangelists are going to start singing her praises...but you never know.
I know this is off topic, but I never thought Jacob was all that attractive in the books. However, the kid they have playing him in the movies is a cutie! I saw a poster for New Moon the other day and I had to do a double-take! My first thought was, "Whoa! I need to get one of those Team Jacob tee shirts!". My second thought was,"You need to stop staring at a poster of some young kid, you idiot! You look like Chester the Molester!".
Yes, as a matter of fact, I do prefer the short hair! Hahaha! I know some women looooove the long locks, but I'm not one of them. Shaggy is good, but long hair is not a turn-on for me.
Okay...don't I remember in book two or three them explaining the imprinting because of Jacobs friend or cousin or something? you don't think they'll skip over those parts in the movies, do you? That would screw things up.
I never really got why Jacob loved Bella, other than the whole weird/creepy/cop-out Renesemee thing. When they started hanging out she was an emotional shell of a person who couldn't bring herself to listen to the radio. Personally I don't think she would be that attractive or anything. Then she spent the entire thrid book whining about who she should chose, even though she had effectively made her choice and was being obviously selfish, while Meyers insisted on calling her martyr and by the third book she lacked any character - both her and Edward were horribly flat. I liked Jacob, but I actually thought he deserved more of a three dimensional character ... and a two year old -esque being didn't really satisfy that. I was still pushing for Leah.
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Books mentioned in this topic
Wuthering Heights (other topics)Wuthering Heights (other topics)
Vampire Academy (other topics)
Wuthering Heights (other topics)
Authors mentioned in this topic
J.K. Rowling (other topics)Cassandra Clare (other topics)
Richelle Mead (other topics)
As far as the book/series flaws, I don't usually question the how and why of the author's plot. I'm all for living in the book for the moment and am not good at analyzing so that kind of stuff doesn't bother me. I get what everyone is saying, but I liked the way she went with the story.