The Flamethrowers - Placeholder aka Background and Resources (January 2014)

[Deborah]

This is to hold the place for discussion of The Flamethrowers, which we are reading this month. Moderator, please put the book name in each thread for easier navigation.

[Casceil]

In case any of you are wondering what "Land Art" is, here is the Wikipedia link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_art

Ah, but what does it look like? Here are some Google images:

https://www.google.com/search?q=land+...

[Lily]

Casceil wrote: "...Ah, but what does it look like? Here are some Google images:..."

Hmmm -- sort of a sidebar, but I received an email this week that featured a skier/snowshoe user who created snow art -- fascinating compositions. Hours and hours of work for what would be destroyed by weather within days if not hours, even minutes sometimes. How he was able to compose such intricate images fascinated me. Don't know a link for it. Sorry.

P.S. Found it:

http://www.viralnova.com/simon-beck-s...

[Casceil]

If you saw a picture of it, Lily, then obviously someone photographed it. What Reno is trying to do--tracks on the salt flats--is also ephemeral, but the photographs, as I understood it, were going to be the finished artwork. I think.

[Lily]

Casceil wrote: "If you saw a picture of it, Lily, then obviously someone photographed it. What Reno is trying to do--tracks on the salt flats--is also ephemeral, but the photographs, as I understood it, were goin..."

Pictures should be available now, Casceil. (I modified my original post.) I haven't started our book, so I can't make the comparison yet as to what the "artwork" will actually identified as being. Thanks for the heads up.

[Casceil]

Lily, thanks for sharing the link. What this guy does is indeed Land Art, and the pictures are wonderful.

[Casceil]

The paperback edition of Flamethrowers is being released on January 14, and is available for pre-order through Amazon now. I read the Kindle edition, and will be glad to have a paper copy with actual page numbers. For anyone still deciding whether or not to read this book, here is a link to my spoiler-free review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

[Lily]

Casceil wrote: "...I read the Kindle edition, and will be glad to have a paper copy with actual page numbers...."

I wish publishers for ebooks would understand how valuable "real page numbers" are and include them with greater regularity. I really appreciate it when they do -- for all sorts of reasons from matching with the physical book to locating information to just because.

[LindaJ^]

As the one who lobbied hard for this book, I do intend to dive into this discussion. BUT, my book is in Maine and I am in Pennsylvania. I will be headed to Maine in a week and then be able to be more engaged with the discussion.

Casceil and Lily, you are so right about Kindle and real page numbers. My other problem with Kindle is that it is a real pain to go backwards and forewards to check on something. I do so prefer to read a real book. That said, however, I am most glad to have Kindle for travel!

[LindaJ^]

Lily wrote: "Casceil wrote: "...Ah, but what does it look like? Here are some Google images:..."

Hmmm -- sort of a sidebar, but I received an email this week that featured a skier/snowshoe user who created sno..."

Wow, Simon's snow art pictures are like blownup snowflakes! They are beautiful.

[Casceil]

Linda, I'm delighted to hear you will be joining us later. So far, the only people besides me who have commented are Lily and my husband, Peter, and I think Peter only posted because he felt sorry for me. I'm hoping we will pick up a few participants when the paperback comes out. I'm kind of waiting till then to do much with the discussion threads, since, as you say, it is hard to go back and forth, or find particular sections, on a Kindle. And I would feel silly citing to something like "Kindle location 4208", particularly since the locations don't seem to be consistent between my computer and my Kindle.

Maybe when the paperback is out I'll try a new thread titled "READ THIS BOOK." I do think it is well worth reading.

[Sophia]

As will I! My copy is ready for collection from the library, on Friday.

[Lily]

Sorry I haven't been commenting, Casceil. I have needed to get some other things read, so haven't even started, although I've had my kindle copy for weeks, if not months. :-) I do intend to be back.

[Casceil]

No worries, Lily. I figure this discussion won't really start in earnest until January 14th, when the paperback comes out. And I know what you mean about reading other things. I've spent a lot of time reading the Goldfinch, and I still have about 100 pages of that left.

[Lily]

This blogspot has a picture of the motorcycle, a Ducati 1971 750 GT, identified as the protoype for the fictional Velara bike of our story. But this bike is not metal-flake teal, at least not as I visualized it! Replace the orange with turquoise and it would be closer. (The article at least hints at future events in the story, so be careful if you consider such to be "spoilers.")

http://cartoslibrary.wordpress.com/20...

Curious as to the name "Velara." Can't help wondering if it is a play off the name of the boxer, Edwin Valero, who was involved in a disastrous motorcycle accident early in his career. I do see the name associated with bikes and riders, but I haven't managed to pin it down. Any bike aficionado out there who can enlighten us?

[Lily]

There is short video here of the Bonneville Salt Flats:

http://www.utah.com/playgrounds/bonne...

[Lily]

Jacques Demy film Model Shop (1969) referred to in Chapter 2:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064679/p...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_...

[Tracy]

I think the Bonneville Salt Flats are in that Movie THE FASTEST INDIAN?

[Casceil]

Lily, you always find such interesting things. Following one of your links led me to more links. Here is a link to a Paris Review interview with Rachel Kushner about her writing of the Flamethrowers, discussing her sources, inspirations and intent. It's worth reading.

http://www.theparisreview.org/blog/20...

There is also a Paris Review collection of images Kushner put together, which I understand to be images she had posted in her writing area, including the picture from the cover. There is also some explanation of why that picture.

http://www.theparisreview.org/art-pho...

[Lily]

Thanks, Casceil. Those are both good links you pulled forward to our attention! I knew I wanted to get back to The Paris Review, but I hadn't done so yet. I see a Sandro (Chia) among the photos -- handling a gun. I wonder what inspiration he provided to the Sandro of this story.

[Lily]

I keep having coincidences this month between art and the books being read here. Below is another, mentioned in our book as a land art classic, that I also encountered while listening to a Great Courses series on understanding art:



Spiral Jetty by Robert Smithson

http://www.mediabistro.com/unbeige/ro...

(A Google search will produce a number of other images.)

[LindaJ^]

When I read this book, I found myself looking up things on a regular basis, but the first was to confirm the reference to "china girl" and film. That led me to http://www.northwestchicagofilmsociet....

Another was to see if there ever was a movie titled The Green Room and indeed there was. This is the review in the NYTimes in 1978 -- http://www.nytimes.com/movie/review?r...

And, perhaps the most interesting, was discovering that indeed there was a anarchist affinity group in NY City known as the Motherfuckers -- https://libcom.org/history/against-wa....

I found the article at this link http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs... very interesting. CAUTION to those who have not finished the book.

[Lily]

Linda wrote: "I found the article at this link http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs... very interesting. CAUTION to those who have not finished the book. ..."

Thanks for the link, Linda, which has an embedded link to "Laura Miller’s recent Salon piece," which in turn led to a whole series of other delightful articles!

[LindaJ^]

Lily wrote: "Linda wrote: "I found the article at this link http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs... very interesting. CAUTION to those who have no..."

I had not followed the link to the Salon piece when I posted. You are right that it should be read, as well as the article at the links at the end of the piece. I can buy into Kushner being a candidate to write the Great American Novel. Flamethrowers certainly compares well with other suggested possibilites!

[Lily]

Linda wrote: "...I can buy into Kushner being a candidate to write the Great American Novel...."

Linda -- not sure I believe such is possible -- at least in the ways Great Gatsby bridged and questioned values across wide swathes and differences of the U.S. (And one can have the argument as to whether GG qualifies -- so what the GAN is probably needs to be discussed before one really can have a fruitful conversation. I would consider DeLillo's Underworld a possible candidate, but even it is geographically and demographically selective.) Some have said most American novels are regional, and I begin to understand what they are saying. This country is probably more diverse than we give it credit for being. The Flamethrowers may be about the opportunities or lack thereof in the hinterlands and about the lure of large city, with its potpourri of people, values, and cultures, all within the framework of a now global world with a historic past, but GAN? -- at least I can't go there.

And do I think Rachel Kushner is a good enough writer to challenge the best Americans writing right now? I haven't decided, but it certainly is going to be fun to watch and to read. (I might not match TF against Underworld, but I sure would against Cosmopolis.)

[Lily]

Linda wrote: " You are right that it should be read, as well as the article at the links at the end of the piece...."

Linda -- I'm going to presume you meant "articles" [plural]. I haven't gotten through all of them, but I have found each that I have of interest. I don't remember if it was directly from that list, or from a link embedded within one of them, but I did call this one to the attention of several friends -- I had not encountered the word "mansplaining" previously: http://www.guernicamag.com/daily/rebe...

[LindaJ^]

Lily wrote: "Linda wrote: "...I can buy into Kushner being a candidate to write the Great American Novel...."

Linda -- not sure I believe such is possible -- at least in the ways Great Gatsby bridged and quest..."

I was not suggesting that Flamethrowers is a GAN. I think Kushner is as good a candidate to write a GAN as anyone else I've seen suggested! I don't know what it would take for a book to actually be a GAN - maybe we should explore that topic in a book chat discussion!

[Daniel]

Linda wrote: "I don't know what it would take for a book to actually be a GAN - maybe we should explore that topic in a book chat discussion!"

That actually sounds like fun, if a bit like chumming the water for some heated discussion. :) If I can get two or three positive responses here to starting up that thread, I would be more than happy to get the ball rolling!

P.S. My thought process was similar to Lily's in reaching for DeLillo as a comparison. The prose has that same feeling of gristly toughness (or muscular leanness, I suppose, if you're looking for a more aesthetically pleasing metaphor). As to how that ties in to any concept of the GAN, well...let's save that one for the book chat!

[LindaJ^]

Lily wrote: "Linda wrote: " You are right that it should be read, as well as the article at the links at the end of the piece...."

Linda -- I'm going to presume you meant "articles" [plural]. I haven't gotten..."

Thanks for the new link, Lily. I loved the article and then decided to read the comments .... and I just don't know how to describe my reaction to them, except to say that they do seem to be evidence that mansplaining is for real!

[Lily]

Linda wrote: "...I think Kushner is as good a candidate to write a GAN as anyone else I've seen suggested! ..."

I can at least tentatively agree -- I'm still mugwumping on RK's potential....:-o (I'm not sure what Laura Miller was suggesting in her Salon article. I think I'll take that discussion to the w/spoilers thread.)

Among the things I found of interest in the articles were the intimations that Flaubert, especially his Sentimental Education, influenced Kushner. (See Woods in The New Yorker, also the Paris Review interview.) I've not read that book, but it is amusing to me that SE was also on influence on Durrell, with his AQ a modernistic Bildungsroman some half century ago. (As I mention elsewhere, AQ also has amazing figures of speech and descriptive images and I am currently re-reading it. The contrasts and comparisons with TF are fun.)

[Lily]

Interview of Rachel Kushner in the NYT this weekend, largely on her book reading habits:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/09/boo...

[LindaJ^]

Lily wrote: "Interview of Rachel Kushner in the NYT this weekend, largely on her book reading habits;

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/09/boo..."

Thanks Lily! I like this NYTimes feature. I often find references to authors I'm not familiar with that I then explore. This one has many authors and books I've not read. I like what seems to be the honesty of the responses, such as steering clear of books with "ugly covers." Makes me think of some of my trips to the wine store - no ugly labels allowed! I am going to have to ponder for a while on what she meant by describing the books she likes as having "some kind of philosophical depth rendered into the language, something happening." What does that mean?

[Lily]

Linda wrote: "...What does that mean?..."

PR posturing? (Sorry, I'm in a somewhat cynical mood today. It at least suggests she gives some thought as to how she spends her reading time.)

[Casceil]

Lily, thanks for posting the link. I don't seem to have a lot in common with Kushner in terms of reading tastes (except for Proust) but the interview was interesting.