The Fault in Our Stars
discussion
Am I the only one who hates this book with burning passion?
Sara wrote: "@MochasspressoOkay but she didn't go all the way across the country with her girlfriend minus her parents. These are two separate situations. I don't understand why you're not able to grasp that..."
That wasn't the part that I was referring to. I was talking about the criticism of TFIOS for not accurately reflective what teens are like "in real life". I was referring to how the teens in news story appeared to be carrying themselves and articulating themselves.
I grasp the part about traveling without parents just fine. I'm just saying that I don't agree. Some parents do cut the cord. I went on vacation for spring break with friends in my senior yr of HS. I was 17 at the time. My parents let me go. Why? Because it was time to cut the cord. Actually the cord had been gradually being cut well before then. Some of the things that today's parents claim that they don't let their teen kids do just plain baffle me, to be honest. Previous generations were raised to be much more self reliant. But I guess those were different times (better, imo) and I digress. In a few months I would be graduating HS and heading off to college. I wouldn't be 18 until september and would already have had two months of living on my own at college under my belt by the time I did turn 18. If I'm not mature enough to be on my own at that point, how am I going to survive college?
Aly wrote: "Mochaspresso wrote: "Aly wrote: "Mochaspresso wrote: "I saw this in the news today....http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?sec...
It's about a girl with terminal brain canc..."
I'm ignoring the diatribe and addressing what's important to me in this discussion. This particular girl from the news story was much further along in her illness that Gus and Hazel were. She was in hospice care. Gus and Hazel were not. "Terminal", at least in the US, doesn't necessarily always mean "on one's deathbed and last breaths". TFIOS was written by an American, about American characters and has an American setting where healthcare is much different. I get the impression that some of you are actually from other countries. I don't think it's fair or valid to criticize a book for being unrealistic for not reflecting the norms and/or customs for a foreign place that it isn't even set in.
Besides we don't hate the book just because we found Hazel and Augustus' trip to Amsterdam unrealistic. We had many other issues with this book (which we have mentioned in the previous pages of this thread) that made us hate it.
Aly wrote: "So essentially you're saying we shouldn't criticise the book if we aren't American? Don't make me laugh. British customs aren't that much different from the US, and pardon me but I'll criticise a b..."Actually, that's not "essentially" what I said at all. Nor was it what I was implying. I'm explaining my pov that some of the criticisms that you and others are leveling about some of the things that were or were not realistic are not necessarily valid if they are primarily based on foreign norms and customs as opposed to American ones. Regardless of whether people personally agree with the practice or not, some HS aged students can and do go away on vacation without their parents here in America. There are actually many American parents who do not agree with the practice at all. That does not change the REALITY that not all parents share that pov and it is not something that is uncommon, completely unheard of or entirely unrealistic. For that reason, I didn't see giving two teens an afternoon of freedom while on vacation as unrealistic, nor the idea that Gus' parents allowed him to travel without them. Also, here in America, all terminally ill people are not just automatically given private duty nurses. That is not a "given" fact here. This is an OPTION that is typically only available to the financially well to do or the very well insured.
I loved it. After reading the comments, I totally get if you did not. But you shouldn't judge others, if they thought it was 'life changing'. I really liked TFIOS I've read it twice. If you don't like it, that's your opinion and I think you have perfectly reasonable reasons. But don't judge someone, or think of them as stupid because they like a book you don't.
Ayesha wrote: "Besides we don't hate the book just because we found Hazel and Augustus' trip to Amsterdam unrealistic. We had many other issues with this book (which we have mentioned in the previous pages of thi..."I realize this. It just seemed to me that a few of the "issues" were not actually completely valid, imo and I am stating the reasons why I disagreed. I have no issue with anyone hating the book. I only addressed issues that I happened to think were either untrue or that I disagreed with.
Aly wrote: "Mochaspresso constantly attacks what's convenient."attack?
Why does someone simply disagreeing with an opinion have to be construed as an "attack"? That shouldn't be the case.
You found the book to be good and loved it and we found it to be bad so we hated it, now let's move on.
In my opinion, I think that this book is just one of them books where people will either hate it or love it.However,I love the book because of the humour,it made me laugh out loud and also I would say that it has a deeper meaning;anything unexpected can happen because when I was reading the book , I expected Hazel to die first but she doesn't.Also it relate the book that Hazel likes as in the 'Imperial Affliction'the last page finishes mid sentence which is supposed to show that it happened quickly just as in reality anything unexpected can happen. That is a just my point of view and everyone is entitled to an opinion but I would definitely recommend this to people! One more thing , I love the quotes in here and the humour (as I mentioned). For those of you who have read it , I really think the metaphorical resonance to smoking is just cool. I feel like I have written an essay!?
Aly wrote: "Mochaspresso constantly attacks what's convenient."
I know, right? What a nuisance.
I know, right? What a nuisance.
Weirdness. Disagreeing with someone is attacking them and shoving an opinion down someone's throat? ...perhaps, it's my US upbringing where people protest freely and openly on the streets about whatever issue happens to be their fancy or maybe it's my NY upbringing where an "attack" sure as hell a lot more than someone saying "I disagree with you because.....". Hell, I learned about "accountable talk" in school from the time that I entered kindergarten. Perhaps this another example of a cultural difference? I wasn't raised to believe that the mere act of disagreement was an attack or that the discussion of various pov was shoving an opinion down another's throat. Seriously, whether people actually heed the lessons when they reach adulthood is another matter, but we learn and are actually encouraged to respectfully share and discuss opinions in school. At least, I did in my "lowly" NY public schools education.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRUsAo......pay attention to the part where the little girl is stating her opinion and the little boy cuts in and says "prove it" and she refers back to something in the text to defend her opinions and how these children are discussing the book in general. Kids, who were educated in this manner, growing up to be articulate (pretentious) teens doesn't seem far that fetched to me. Maybe it does to others......but I'm telling you that it is definitely not entirely UNREALISTIC.
Guys... It seems like you all WERE discussing a book and now it is like you are just in verbal battle.... There is no need for it !!!!! Just leave it?!
Goodness me......?
When did I ever say that I felt that I was better? I never did, nor did I say anything to imply it. I'm explaining why certain things that happened in TFIOS didn't seem unrealistic to me.
You don't seem to have interest in hearing any views that challenge yours. Fair enough. Continue with the silly circle jerks where the bobbleheads nod and agree with each other and delude yourselves into thinking that you're having a "discussion" and I will pipe in whenever I see something that I happen to disagree with.
I totally agree with you but you should just leave her be and let her express her 'emotions' as one would say. You and her are just wasting your time.
Not taking sides or anything!;-)
I am going now... Bye guys... Hope you resolve your issues?! :-) ;-)
Aly wrote: "@Soyida: I've ignored her for too long but her pathetic attempts at belittling us are shocking. She should accept that we hate this book and move on."Again, I accept that you hate the book and have no problem with that. You stated a reason that I happened to disagree with and I explained why I disagreed with that particular point that was made. That's all. I don't have to move on from the thread any more or less than anyone else. If you're free to continue to discuss....then I am also free to chime in and discuss as well if I feel so inclined.
The netbullies are fine with calling people who wander into the thread to counter them trolls and fangirls/boys and telling them that this thread is for them and them alone and to go away. When someone ignores that silly foolishness and challenges them, they get angry. For that reason, I will simply keep posting until I get bored and decide to move on on my own terms....or until the thread dies on it's own, whichever comes first. :)
Mochaspresso: It has nothing to do with you being born and raised in America. I was also raised in the U.S. and I definitely agree with Aly. Maybe I was raised differently, raised to have manners and respect the opinions of others no matter how much I oppose. I don't know, but the way you are CONSTANTLY trying to prove everyone wrong is an attack. You are trying to shove your opinion down everyone's throat otherwise you wouldn't have commented on a thread where people are expressing their dislike of TFIOS, copying and pasting links to inform us of irrelevant situations. Not everyone is in love with this book. I understand that you found it life changing, but I didn't. I don't in anyway look down on you or anyone who enjoyed this book, but that is not the case for you, is it? If you respected the fact that we disliked this book you would not have come here trying to "prove" to us wether it was realistic or not.
P.S. Birthplace has nothing to do with anything and bringing it up in the first place was completely uncalled for. You are not any better than anyone in critiquing a book just because you are from the U.S. or New York. Loose the superiority complex.
Sara wrote: "Mochaspresso: It has nothing to do with you being born and raised in America. I was also raised in the U.S. and I definitely agree with Aly. Maybe I was raised differently, raised to have manners..."
Again, I never said that I was better than anyone else.
Cultural differences did seem to be at play in this thread because some people were so adamant about certain things in TFIOS being unrealistic. To the point where when someone else states otherwise and defends their position, others become angry. This didn't happen with just me. It happened earlier in the thread with other posters as well.
To assert that a lack of a private duty nurse is unrealistic in an American novel is not a valid criticism. Sorry. Given the way healthcare is here, it just isn't. To assert that it was unrealistic for kids to go on vacation without their parents was unrealistic is also not valid. There is a big difference between personally disagreeing with a practice and going to the extreme of proclaiming it to be totally and universally unrealistic.
Liking or not liking a book is perfectly fine....however, there is a problem if the like or dislike is based on a misconception or on misinformation. I could say that I hated Jane Eyre or Tess of the D'ubervilles and that they were unrealistic because of the way that women were treated, but I would be wrong. Not for hating those books....but my underlying reasoning is what's wrong. That might very well be my opinion but is that opinion actually valid given what we know of history and of what life was like for women during those times? There is a huge difference between "I don't like the way women were treated in those books..." and "The way women were treated is totally unrealistic. Who does that?" That was my point. Some of the criticisms that were given for hating TFIOS were not valid because they simply were not true. Hate the book all you want......but do it from a fully informed standpoint. Sorry if that offends, but it really shouldn't, especially considering how people have clearly demonstrated that they don't care about what may or may not offend me.
...no worries, though. I'm a big girl with a thick skin. I'll be fine regardless.
Aly wrote: "@Mochaspresso: Oh look, resorting to petty, childish insults like netbully just because I stood up to you and told you to do one if you're not going to respect me. For someone who is supposedly old..."You were behaving precisely like a netbully when you tried to (dictate) "inform me" of who and what this thread is supposedly for.
I have no problem with you ignoring me. Have a nice life. :)
Aly wrote: "@Sarah: THANK you. :))"...the circle jerk. happy happy joy joy as long as someone somewhere is agreeing and "validating" you all.
^^^^ now that was a prime example of me being petty and childish. :)
(....petty and childish still doesn't mean that it can't be actually, true though.) :p
THE BOOK IS CRAP! SO SUCK IT UP AND DEAL WITH IT!
Aly wrote: "@Mochaspresso: Oh look, resorting to petty, childish insults like netbully just because I stood up to you and told you to do one if you're not going to respect me. For someone who is supposedly old..."Probably for the best, it's been my stance for a while, and suddenly I don't post so much on goodreads? Odd but there you go.
Hey, did you see that episode of inbetweeners, think it was season 3? Where Will pissed off the dialysis kid. Think that's a much more realistic version of a sick teenager than Hazel and Gus!
Aly wrote: "Charlotte wrote: "Let me just throw in my two cents and say that the cigarette-non-smoking thing is the most pretentious thing I have ever seen in literature."Agreed. I smoke, but I would never s..."
That's what I thought, but maybe he has really spitty lips or played with them too much and they kept falling apart? I mean, I'm purely speculating because Green never said it, but that's the only plausible explanation I can think of right now.
And really, that's the way the cigarettes are still winning, because he's still pouring money into the tobacco companies. Which just makes Gus an idiot, IMHO.
Aly wrote: "@Siobhan: Agreed. Plus smoking is expensive. On average, a packet of cigarettes in the UK costs around £6+ for 20 or £4+ for ten. If he, say, bought three packs a month, that's still an unexplainab..."They are crazy expensive in the US, too. I don't smoke but I think they are around $6 a pack here in Ohio, which is crazy when you consider the minimum wage is under $8/hr. I don't know how much they are in Indiana but it is just next door to us, so I imagine it's similar.
The "metaphor" would be like someone who was nearly killed by some guys with guns carrying around an unloaded gun and periodically pressing it to his head. Sounds pretty stupid. Why didn't he just donate that money to cancer research? That would be a whole lot more productive and less idiotic. But no, John Green had to make him "different."
Emma wrote: "Aly wrote: "@Siobhan: Agreed. Plus smoking is expensive. On average, a packet of cigarettes in the UK costs around £6+ for 20 or £4+ for ten. If he, say, bought three packs a month, that's still an..."And medical bills in America are sky high, so why would he waste a cent to attempt to be ironic?
Charlotte wrote: "Let me just throw in my two cents and say that the cigarette-non-smoking thing is the most pretentious thing I have ever seen in literature."
ME TOO ME TOO ME TOO!
Like, what's the fucking point? There are tons of other things he could be spending that money on instead of just wasting it on something that doesn't even make sense.
ME TOO ME TOO ME TOO!
Like, what's the fucking point? There are tons of other things he could be spending that money on instead of just wasting it on something that doesn't even make sense.
Actually, since the type of cancer he had isn't even caused by smoking it would be more like a guy who was attacked with knives carrying around the gun.
Cigarettes are around $12-$15 pack in NY. I actually agree with the criticisms about the cigarette metaphor. I thought the cigarette metaphor was rather silly. Silly and it doesn't really add anything to his character or the overall story. I get the metaphor.....some black people in America claim that they are doing something similar with the N-word when they use it. (...believe that in their actions, they are removing all of the power...) I just don't agree with it at all or think it's all that profound.
Mochaspresso wrote: "Cigarettes are around $12-$15 pack in NY. I actually agree with the criticisms about the cigarette metaphor. I thought the cigarette metaphor was rather silly. Silly and it doesn't really add an..."
Thank you. At least we can agree on something.
Thank you. At least we can agree on something.
Brooke wrote: "Thank you. At least we can agree on something. "Yes, we can agree. However, I will honestly say that I don't see the purpose of discussing books if you only want to encourage discourse with people who share the same povs and/or conversely, discourage discourse with people who don't share them. What's to be learned from that? Going deeper than simply "agreeing" and "disagreeing".....the more important question to me is, is it possible for others to see and understand why others might see the metaphor differently? I'm not asking whether you agree (...you don't have to), but do you understand where that pov might be coming from?
http://tfios-changed-my-life.tumblr.c...Thought this post was interesting! Gives a different perspective on Augustus and his pretentiousness.
I personally liked the book. I know a lot of people that don't understand it. I actually understood quite a bit of it, mostly because I am used to having deep and philosophical conversations with my best friend Scott. I understand not liking the book, I thought some of the sections could have gone without being put in the book. However, the way some of the people that are commenting about it is very rude. It's understandable that some people are offended by this thread, but although we have the right to our own opinions, I feel like people should be wording their comments carefully, and they should be aware of others feelings. Thank you, and please no hate on this, we all have the right to our own opinions and that is mine.
@Chantelle: Wow! I never thought of it that why. I guess I understand the reasoning for that now. I'm still not a fan of the book, but I get what Green was trying do.
@Chantelle, I get that, and it does sound plausible, but for me personally, the truth (going by the theory) was too subtle, not enough, or just missing the point to begin with. Green didn't write enough of a contrast, so it came across as the Gus we've discussed in this thread. Maybe it would have stood out more with Hazel's pretension, and VAn Houtens, but as they were all trying to be witty and affected, it plain did not work for me. Maybe in the hands of a more competent writer, that could work.
Claudia wrote: "Ayesha wrote: "I happily bought the hardcover of The Fault in our stars back in December 2012 after seeing the high average GR ratings and raving reviews saying how beautiful, life-changing, though..."I liked 13 reasons why. It wasn't meant to glamourise suicide, it was meant to make you think of how even your most insignificant actions can affect others. And to show that suicide and revenge are never the answer. Hannah's reasons may have started off valid enough, but her own snowball effect meant she reached for the reasons, even creating them just to blame people for her unhappiness. It's not meant to be a good book.
I don't understand why a lot of people who have read TFIOS say that it's the
BEST BOOK EVER.
I mean, sure, they loved the book, they cried while reading the book, but it doesn't mean it's the best best thing in the world ever! There were a lot more books much better than TFIOS and when I say much better, I mean better plot, better characters, better style. There had been so many great writers in the history who had written masterpieces, as in real masterpieces and yet there are quite a lot of people who are claiming TFIOS as the best book ever. It's alright to say that it's the best book that YOU have read so far because we all have our own standards when it comes to books but to say that it's the best book EVER, I don't think that's still acceptable. Clearly there is a lot more exploring and reading to be done.
I tried the kindle sample for "13 Reasons Why" and I recall not caring for it all and not wanting to finish it. I might revisit it, though.
I wholeheartedly agree with you
Aileen wrote: "I don't understand why a lot of people who have read TFIOS say that it's the BEST BOOK EVER.
I mean, sure, they loved the book, they cried while reading the book, but it doesn't mean it's the b..."
Well said.
Charlotte wrote: "Let me just throw in my two cents and say that the cigarette-non-smoking thing is the most pretentious thing I have ever seen in literature."Holy crap! I completely forgot about it! I think it's one of those things so ridiculous that I had to block so I could cope with it.
Since it's ok to post links....http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/...
The interview aired this morning. I thought it was very nice and inspirational. Robin Roberts (the interviewer) is also a cancer survivor, btw.
"There is a difference between being alive and living."
Aly wrote: " I was on Tumblr earlier, and happened to reblog this image:And then someone replied with this:
I know it's really immature, but it made me laugh so so so much."
I saw this on tumblr and I almost died lol
http://tokomon.tumblr.com/post/828328...
I dont know why you would not like this book but its your opinion cause i love this book with a burning passoin
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http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?sec...
It's about a girl with terminal brain cancer whose classmates get together t..."
Sweetie, this is the internet. I can do and say what I want....same as you. Deal.
You don't have to change your mind. That is entirely your prerogative. But this is a forum to discuss views...supporting and opposing. If you want a private thread where only certain views are welcomed, establish one a privately moderated board. Call Christ, Buddha, Jehovah or even Beetlejuice if you want.
btw, this will make you angy, but I'm thinking it so I will just be honest and put it out there and let the chips fall where ever....if you are basing the rest of the world's potential "reality" on the ignorance that clearly went on in your little space of the world and refuse to consider what actually has happened elsewhere, you are just as narrow and small minded as those kids who bullied are.