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The Adversary > The Adversary - Chapters 4-6

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message 1: by Chad (new)

Chad Peek (mordrim) | 257 comments Mod
Good morning and Happy Monday. I am back to work and playing catch up, so I wanted to get this opened right away before I forget again.

Looking forward to everyone's thoughts and everything that Erin shares with us.


message 2: by Erin (new)

Erin Evans (erinmevans) | 197 comments Mod
If you are behind (or just joining) you are in luck: aside from the prologue and epilogue, chapters 4 and 5 are the shortest in this book!


message 3: by Justin (new)

Justin (berliad) | 115 comments Oh, poor Mehen! He'd only just found them, and he's lost his girls again!

And Dahl seems to no longer be a secretary anymore! Glad he had then sendings with him.

I think we're off to the races now!


message 4: by Dreaming (new)

Dreaming Isis | 78 comments Every time I read chapter 4 I tear up. It is such an emotional scene when Mehen gets to hold his girls and heart wrenching how everyone is attempting to accept/deal/cope with all of it.
And then BAM!!
They are torn apart again. I think Mehen is going to put the Realms version of GPS on them after this. Poor guy.
Luckily Dahl is a smart guy. :) he's on it. Even of he does not know it really. :)


message 5: by Jon (new)

Jon Crofts | 76 comments These chapters were an interesting turn. The prologue and the first three had me worried about The Girls and their family and friends. Character assassination is a nasty nasty thing when done well, and Sairché seemed to be doing it very well indeed.

And then a hope for salvation arrived, in the last package I had been expecting. Dahl no less. Setting someone up to be the fall guy... girl... Tiefling only really works when there isn't contradictory evidence hanging around. So for the first time I am sitting here actively hoping that Dahl makes it back.

Of course remembering that his botched mission had, at its heart, Rhand. Then seeing Rhand appear as Fari's new jailer and the one to follow her is the one who has the most to gain (personally) from bringing him to a Bad End? I like the way this might (Mother Mystra please!) be going.


message 6: by Dreaming (new)

Dreaming Isis | 78 comments I was also thinking about the state of the portal room and how it can be said that it represents the state of the world with all the war(s) going on. Things are broken, damaged, and worn.


message 7: by Erin (new)

Erin Evans (erinmevans) | 197 comments Mod
(Happy New Year!)

That symbolism tickles me, because it was unintentional, but it looks so obvious. Which, I suppose, symbolism ought to be--you can kind of polish it up in the last draft so that it says what you mean, but it works better if it kind of bubbles up on its own.

There was an alternate version of the leap to the fortress (which I hope will not make David too sad). Originally, I was going to have Rhand's people come extract Farideh, and grab Dahl when he attacked one of them, knocking them out of the teleportation's reach. So to find out where Dahl and Farideh had gone, Tam would have pulled out... the Book!.

However, the Book is kind of a weird quantity to just drop in the middle like that. If you haven't read Lesser Evils you likely have no idea at all what I'm talking about. My editor strongly sided with this option.


message 8: by Steve (new)

Steve Mumford | 16 comments There's so much going on in this section - the reunion scene in the worn portal room does a great job of hammering home the passage of time, and it's pretty poignant for those people that have read Lesser Evils. There's a strong contrast between Mehen and Brin's restraint and nobility and the sisters' strong reactions, and I wonder whether Mehen's character has influenced Brin's development over the intervening period; they seem to be well suited to each other. It'd be fascinating to learn what they got up to - seems to be fertile ground for short stories or graphic novels; I'm sure it's been mentioned in previous discussions but the Brimstone Angels cast would look great in a graphic novel, I'm sure.

I particularly liked the following scene with Sairché, in the way it describes just how complicated the cambions' existence is - it's nowhere near as simple as Lorcan and Sairché just being at each other's throats, and both of them have to watch their backs in order to avoid being betrayed or simply made scapegoats in someone else's scheme. Making deals with devils is a very powerful and popular theme, and it's great to step beyond that a little and see the nightmarishly complex webs that Lorcan and Sairché find themselves in. As for the return of Adolican Rhand; he was a very nasty piece of work - a villain you can really despise.

I was intrigued by the reappearance of the protection spell and its limitations, along with the visual disturbances Farideh ends up seeing. In Lesser Evils the protection spell's effects were clearly described, and Lorcan and Farideh couldn't travel far apart. Here, the effects reappear quite soon after she leaves the gift necklace behind, but disappear once Farideh and Dahl have been transported via the portal. Once they're separated by the portal, the distance limitation on the protection spell seems to have been broken - is the protection spell no longer in effect? I also wondered about the line "Lorcan broke off with a cry of pain that had nothing to do with the binding" - is this due to Sairché's deal that protects Havilar from harm, or something else entirely?

Poor Dahl's definitely been thrown in at the deep end - having railed against Tam keeping him on desk duty, he's suddenly thrown back into the field with no preparation - and true to Sairché's plans, things aren't looking good for Farideh at all. However, they've both gained experience since their first meeting in Lesser Evils; Dahl seems more practical and a *little* less prickly, and I was impressed by Farideh's composure in the face of meeting Adolican Rhand again. This chapter raised the pace - and the threat - considerably; I loved the way information about the camp is gradually revealed through Dahl's eyes as he investigates the place. That hip flask isn't going to get him very far, either - his guilty fondness for ale is a nice character touch that adds a dash of flavour.

Finally, I enjoyed Havilar's little jealous moment when she realises her sister took Dahl with her through the portal - and the prospect of Havilar and Lorcan journeying together was most entertaining :)

Oh, and *finally* finally, I hadn't realised the Brimstone Angels series had earned a page on tvtropes.org - praise indeed! Although be warned; don't start reading it unless you've got a good hour or so to kill, and there could well be spoilers... http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php...


message 9: by Erin (new)

Erin Evans (erinmevans) | 197 comments Mod
One thing I'm not loving about these fora is that it's tricky to reply to comments--particularly on my phone. For example, I can't see Steve's comment right now, so hopefully I remember what I'm responding to!

Steve, I'm glad you liked this section! The "cry of pain" part was the moment that Farideh teleported. That's the snapping of the protection spell--the loop around Lorcan has broken.

The TV Tropes page! It's very entertaining. I'd warn that it's been updated to include THE ADVERSARY, so definitely beware of spoilers.

Is everyone catching up okay?


message 10: by Chad (last edited Jan 06, 2014 09:26AM) (new)

Chad Peek (mordrim) | 257 comments Mod
I think one of my favorite parts of the Brimstone Angels novels has been that feeling of "family" that I get with some of the characters. I think I can look at the characters and their interactions and see my family in them at different times. That and the fact all of the characters don't come across as "Legendary Heroes". They are flawed individuals who are always walking this thin line of saving the day or completely ruining it. I think these two aspects are very refreshing for me as a reader. I enjoy not having my heroes be the greatest swordsman in the realms or an archmage of unbelievable power. I like the extra tension created by the thought that the only thing standing between the Realms and the powers of the Hells are a couple of bickering sisters, their outcast adopted father, a Harper desk jockey, and a royal prince runaway. :)


message 11: by Mara (new)

Mara  (marajade84) | 2 comments Erin wrote: "One thing I'm not loving about these fora is that it's tricky to reply to comments--particularly on my phone. For example, I can't see Steve's comment right now, so hopefully I remember what I'm re..."

I am caught up but that is because I read the entire book the day I recieved it. I'm a speed reader like that. So I'm having to go back and remind myself what happened in each chapter.

And the TV Tropes needs to add more items I think, especially tot he characters, who are wonderfully complex. :D

In regards to the story at this point:

One thing that I thought about was how awkward it must have initially been between Mehen and Brin when Farideh and Havilar went missing, since not only was Brin not able to prevent Farideh and Havilar's disappearance but he is also now in a sexual relationship with Mehen's daughter. I imagine there were lots of awkward silences in the early years, and then eventually they opened up to one another.

I also like the scene a the end of chapter 4 where Mehen is reflecting back on how others had warned him not to adopt the girls and how hard it has been for him. I'm not a parent but I feel like this is a really good representation of the struggle that being a parent must be.


message 12: by Erin (new)

Erin Evans (erinmevans) | 197 comments Mod
There's a little about Brin and Mehen, between the twins disappearing and returning, in Fire in the Blood, the next Brimstone Angels book. Although at this point I'm elbows-deep in revisions and I can't promise it will all stay...There's definitely more of Mehen and Brin together.

Suffice it to say, Brin did not lead with "Your daughter and I slept together." I'd suspect that took a solid year to come out.


message 13: by David (new)

David Given Schwarm (davidschwarm) | 101 comments Mod
I agree with everyone else here that this is the start of Fantastic! Just a great section with so much to love.

I wanted to start with the post teleportation Closet Fight--is it me or have Erin's fight scenes gotten a lot better? This one was fast paced and really well described--we had motivation & action really blending together very well in a style very reminiscent of someone that I think we have all read--I am wondering if any of this book was work shopped with other FR Authors?

The Devil springing from the necklace was also great--and the foreshadowing it with the tether was awesome. That had a very Forgotten Realms feel to me--the necklace slithering around the room, knocking into the walls--very much felt like a return to old school realms.

Sairché is quickly becoming one of my favorite characters--I love the myriad of angles she is playing at the same time & way in which they work out kind of like she intended--but close enough for her to still get what she wants. Really good stuff.

Line of the section was definitely "This sort of thing happens all the time"--so classic!

And finally, I will be talking to that editor of yours--Book would have taken this section to the NEXT LEVEL!


message 14: by Erin (last edited Jan 08, 2014 03:03PM) (new)

Erin Evans (erinmevans) | 197 comments Mod
Ha! Nope. No workshops. Just hitting the right notes, I suppose. :)

Glad you liked it! Sorry about the lack of Book. It does make me think a short story which involves Tam and the Book, and what it takes to get information out of it these days would be cool.

Although that reminds me! I wrote an article about the Harpers for Dragon, and it just came out! Here: http://wizards.com/DnD/TOC.aspx?x=dnd...

The Book comes up.

EDIT: I just pulled it up and GASP! The Book gets AN ILLUSTRATION!


message 15: by Stephanie (new)

Stephanie (saturnine13) I'm super late to this party, but I had to come in and say that these chapters were among my favorite out of the book. Everything from chapters 2 through 6 is just heart-wrenching and miserable. I'm glad the time skip wasn't hand-waved away to have no real consequences: everybody suffered and lost so much, relationships have changed irrevocably and not for the better. The scenes between Havi and Fari were especially hard to get through. It's really well done.

On the topic of TV Tropes, that website is actually the reason why I got the Brimstone Angel books. The series was mentioned on the Deal With The Devil page -- it's one of my favorite tropes -- so I decided to check these books out, and was very glad I did.


message 16: by Erin (new)

Erin Evans (erinmevans) | 197 comments Mod
Stephanie wrote: "I'm super late to this party, but I had to come in and say that these chapters were among my favorite out of the book. Everything from chapters 2 through 6 is just heart-wrenching and miserable. I'..."

There's no late in a Book Club thread!

I'm glad you're enjoying the book.


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