The Private Memoirs - Background & Research

[Deborah, Moderator]

Please post any background or research information here. Also please note we start this book on January 1.

[Deborah, Moderator]

While the discussion won't start until the 1st, feel free to add any research/background info.

Here's a start.

www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hogg

[Deborah, Moderator]

This novel will be narrated twice. Once by the editor and once by the sinner. It will also use the double account scheme.

This work had its authorship repeatedly questioned. This raised from the fact that the work is much more intricate than Hogg's previous writings. Even though Hogg's daughter claimed possession of the original, handwritten manuscript, the controversy continued as late as 1924. It was ultimately disputed by Walter Allen who compared Lockhart's writing (the supposed assistant author) to the work and found it incompatible.

This novel was originally published in 1824 anonymously. Hogg requested it be published in this fashion. However, the authorship was leaked; and retraction printed the following month to attempt to maintain anonymity. It received poor reviews. Yet, now the novel is viewed as one of the most convincing representations of evil in literature.

Hogg has been quoted to say once he wrote one line, he never knew what the next line would be. For this reason, along with his refusing to make revisions (based on principle), his work is not seen as particularly strong. This may have played a part in the start of the above referenced controversy.

He was extremely interested in the underdogs and outcasts, and considered himself to be one. He was isolated from his peasant roots by his ambitions. While self-educated, he started a literary society with other young shepherds. This group was viewed by society as being suspected of devil raising. Hogg and the group were actually accused of creating the great storm of 1794. Hogg also found himself friendless upon his return to Ettrick in 1809.

It should be noted that he was a Calvinist, and religiously observant.

[Madge UK]

Thanks Deborah. Very intriguing.

[Deborah, Moderator]

Madge, you are a much better researcher than I am. Please add to this.

[Deborah, Moderator]

Some information on the Reformation

www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Re...

And on Predestination

www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predestinat...

[Linda2]

I know members vote for all the books, and I don't want to start another long discussion on the meaning of "great," but why have we been reading books that are far from "great?" First, Carmilla, now this. Have we really run out of top-of-the-line books?

[Lily]

Deborah wrote: "Some information on the Reformation

And on Predestination

www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predestinat..."

There is a lot here and no promise that it will all seem consistent:

http://www.pcusa.org/search/?criteria...

In its most simplistic form, one way of thinking about Predestination is a) God is omnipotent (all knowing), b) man (humankind) is inherently sinful (does wrong or evil, breaks his relationship with the Divine), c) he/she can't fix that entirely on his own, d) therefore the grace of God is needed for salvation -- and being omnipotent, who will be saved is known for and from eternity -- if eternity is considered to extend into the past as surely as into the future. Now, all that includes a lot of assumptions which many moderns question, from the very existence of God to the inherent sinfulness of man, as well as what is the extent of mercy and grace, let alone what is salvation. (Or omnipotence, for that matter.)

[Deborah, Moderator]

Rochelle wrote: "I know members vote for all the books, and I don't want to start another long discussion on the meaning of "great," but why have we been reading books that are far from "great?" First, Carmilla, no..."

I don't think we've run out of great books. I believe this one was chosen as a way to start our tour of the world to broaden our horizons, and is this particular author's "best" book.

Perhaps Silver could provide more detail on why this particular book - besides the polling.

[Deborah, Moderator]

Lily wrote: "Deborah wrote: "Some information on the Reformation

And on Predestination

www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predestinat..."

There is a lot here and no promise that it will all seem consisten..."

Thanks Lilly. It's always good to have multiple resources and viewpoints.

[Frances, Moderator]

Deborah wrote: "Rochelle wrote: "I know members vote for all the books, and I don't want to start another long discussion on the meaning of "great," but why have we been reading books that are far from "great?" Fi..."

I have to agree with Rochelle-I joined this group because I love reading the classics and having a forum to discuss them, and realize there are so many great books I have not read yet. I also find it somewhat frustrating to be reading some very secondary authors/novels. Should we perhaps discuss this under group improvements/suggestions?

[Deborah, Moderator]

Frances wrote: "Deborah wrote: "Rochelle wrote: "I know members vote for all the books, and I don't want to start another long discussion on the meaning of "great," but why have we been reading books that are far ..."

Frances I think your suggestion to move the discussion to group improvements a good one. Let's continue this discussion there.

[Deborah, Moderator]

I've set up a new thread under group improvements for this discussion.

[Lauren]

I thought this was a great book, and I am very happy that I found it through this group.

I am also stunned that Hogg is a Calvinist. But I will bring that up later on in the discussion.

[Silver]

Deborah wrote: "Perhaps Silver could provide more detail on why this particular book - besides the polling. ."

I can appreciate how this book may not appeal to everyone, and I can understand how some may feel that it does not qualify as great literature (though I am enjoying the reading of it myself) I felt this could prove to be an interesting and worthwhile read not entirely without merit.

James Hogg was widely admired within his own time, though part of that admiration did stem from his struggles agasint peasant class and his ability to achieve success for himself.

In the Victorian Era he started to fall out of favor and was considered to be overrated, though even his critics acknowledged that The Private Memoirs and Confessions of a Justified Sinner was a particular powerful book standing out among his other works, which did lead to the speculation (as mentioned already in the interesting information provided by Deborah) that he may not be the true author of the work.

Hogg's work found a new popularity and resurgence which continues today after Andre Gide was lent "Justified Sinner" and quoted that "It is long since I can remember being so taken hold of, so voluptuously tormented by any book"

The Private Memoirs and Confessions of a Justified Sinner is now considered to be one of the major works of Scottish literature of its time, and crucial in understanding the importance of Calvinism within Scottish culture.

Hogg's work and particularly "Justified Sinner" continues to influence modern Scottish writers.

[Deborah, Moderator]

Thanks Silver. I, too, am really enjoying the book. In speaking of it to a friend, who happens to be reading a biography of Burns, she became interested in it and is anxiously waiting for us to finish so she can borrow it.

[Denise]

I thought it was a very good book. I really enjoyed it. Thank you to whoever discovered it!

[MN]

Silver wrote: "Deborah wrote: "Perhaps Silver could provide more detail on why this particular book - besides the polling. ."

I can appreciate how this book may not appeal to everyone, and I can understand how s..."

I think it's relevant that Hogg was writing at the same time as Walter Scott. He can be read as redressing Scott's romantic treatment of Scottish history, which dismissed the bardic (oral) tradition crucial to the historical perspective of most of the Scottish population at the time.
Marguerite

[Silver]

MN wrote: "Silver wrote: "Deborah wrote: "Perhaps Silver could provide more detail on why this particular book - besides the polling. ."

I can appreciate how this book may not appeal to everyone, and I can u..."

Thank you for bringing that up. Walter Scott was in Hogg's circle of literary friends.

[MN]

Although Scott helped Hogg, I'm not sure that he could be described as treating Hogg as a friend as he was terribly condescending. For example, he offered help on the condition that Hogg stopped writing poetry.

[Deborah, Moderator]

Silver wrote: "MN wrote: "Silver wrote: "Deborah wrote: "Perhaps Silver could provide more detail on why this particular book - besides the polling. ."

I can appreciate how this book may not appeal to everyone, ..."

While I didn't mention the Scott connection, I thought the timing was very nice since the shirt story was Scott.

[Silver]

MN wrote: "For example, he offered help on the condition that Hogg stopped writing poetry.
..."

Haha that is actually pretty funny

[Hippystick]

I hope you all enjoy this one. I read it a couple of years ago and loved it. I found it surprisingly contemporary for such an old book, although it did require a little research into some of the religious aspects.

[Deborah, Moderator]

I have been enjoying this book a grat deal. Hopefully, the others are as well.