On Tyrants & Tributes : Real World Lessons From The Hunger Games discussion
FROM THE PROFESSOR: The Unsung Individualist Hero of The Hunger Games?
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I think this is right on the money. One of two changes I would make in the first HG movie would have been to include a flashback of Katniss's father teaching her, and her making the connection to "herself" and other edible plants through his plant book, after being re-invigorated by Peeta's sacrificial gift of bread.The other change, of course, is to reshoot the bread-tossing scene with appropriately aged (and sized… Jennifer Lawrence does not pull off "starving" well.
I love the fact that Katniss returns to her father's (and her mother's, before she was overcome by grief/depression) by creating her own book of Hunger games history to honor the fallen and by helping to start a new industry of medicinal plants in District 12.
Spoilery if you haven't read Catching Fire or Mockingjay:Mainstay Productions did an excellent short film on a little Katniss and her father (and several other Hunger Games - the Second Quarter Quell with young Haymitch, the Finnick/Annie series... oh-tear your heart out) that touched on the themes of self-reliance and freedom.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7djN9...
I agree that her father's influence is overlooked or underestimated. He gave her the perspective to really see the injustice of The Reaping and that there could be life beyond the reach of The Capitol (did he share that with a young Gale as well).
We are all born with a spark of our parents within us, who they were, their strengths, weaknesses, thought processes and emotions. I think it is whimsical and romantic to try to surmise who Katniss' father was using what he taught her and how she responds to the situations she is put in. I think that supposing he was part of a possible plot against the capital and was killed for it goes a bit far. Katniss is not a planer or a conspirator, she is only a reactor. But then maybe that is her mother coming out in her.
I enjoy the subtlety with which Collins wields Mr. Everdeen. I agree that his quiet independence can be seen in the allusions made to his character and Katniss' defiance of the Capitol, but I also agree with Stacy that the hypothetical plot and subsequent murder are perhaps taking it too far. On the other hand, part of what is rich in the Hunger Games is the way it makes the imagination run. For people who read the books prior to seeing the movies, we all have some disappointment because we all have our own understanding of the world Collins portrayed so powerfully. (This is not to say I disliked the movie. I quite enjoyed Hunger Games and am looking to seeing Catching Fire as soon as I can find a baby-sitter.)
Do they mention her dad in the books? I can't remember.
I think the message in The Hanging Tree spurs Katniss on to fight, and can be seen as a theme-song through the whole series. Being as it is about a young lover would rather have their sweetheart beside them in death than for her to live through an unjust world. Makes you want to change the unjust world or die and watch the ones you love die. This risk of death, both Katniss and her father take on- from the illegal hunting through to destroying the Arena of the 75th Annual Hunger Games.
Doubtless, Katniss would be at a high disadvantage if it were not for the training her father gave her, and the libertarian values he passed down to her. She probably would not have survived the games and she might have acted differently, espoused different politics. She might not have even defied the Capitol in any way, believing herself to be dependent upon it.
Doubtless, Katniss would be at a high disadvantage if it were not for the training her father gave her, and the libertarian values he passed down to her. She probably would not have survived the games and she might have acted differently, espoused different politics. She might not have even defied the Capitol in any way, believing herself to be dependent upon it.
That is actually a really good point, I hadn't thought of Mr. Everdeen's role in the story. It would have been an interesting twist to highlight his effect on her life even more in the story, through flashbacks or something like that.
I think that her father did play a big role in teaching her things that later payed off, not only when the games came into play but before that. If Katniss didn't know how to hunt she wouldn't have been able to provide for her and prim after her father died and who knows what would've happened
I believe miss Everdeens father is a hero in the Huger Games trilogy, because everything that Katniss does you can see a glimpse of how her father was and responded to life situations. I believe that the Mocking Jay learned how to become an expert solution to life threats was all of the teachings of her father.
Definitely, the movie needed a flashback of the father teaching Katniss all of that. His father is an important piece in the story, as he sets the base in which Katniss would develop. We can recognize that part, but I don't think we can say he's a hero, as he didn't know the future, he just wanted to raise a strong, independent woman, he didn't know she was gonna be a hero and save everyone. Because of that, I think we must recognize he plays a big and important roll in the story, but I din't see him as a hero.
I think Mr. Everdeen was right to teach his daughter the things she did. Even if she never blossomed into the young revolutionary she is, the skills he taught her at very least would have helped her provide for her family. The fact that she's very likely a product of her father is probably what caused her to save Prim in the first place.Had she not been raised with a sense of some kind of morality or fairness, then she wouldn't have saved Prim, or Roo, or Peeta. She wouldn't have bothered to try to protect people in the districts but would have rather lived a life of luxery like Hamich apparently did for most of his time after winning the Hunger Games.
To call him the great unsung hero is a big title, however. It's obvious that parents have effects on children, but in that context, when is the parent ever NOT the unsung hero or villain in a person's life?
I will admit that it took me a while to grasp what exactly this song means (and I am still looking into it). Reading the Hogwarts Professor article, I had never even thought of Katniss and Gale's fathers possibly being intentionally killed in the mine accident.It is too easy to compare Katniss to her father - he died, he left her a lot of things (the song, lessons on how to survive, hunting gear, etc.), she very obviously looked/s up to him as a mentor, and she criticizes her mother for a lot of thing, including doing nothing for the children once the father died.
I found it interesting that when I started looking into her relationship with her parents, that she grew more similar to her mother as the series progressed. Katniss retained the fire from her father, but like it or not, for the majority of the series, she was very passive. If you don't believe me, look at most of the stuff she did - it was usually because someone told her to do so or she was being tricked. She was a pawn in all three books. To me, her greatest actions were volunteering herself for Prim, burying Rue, giving the speech in District 13, almost eating the berries, and assassinating President Coin. I like those scenes because it was when her true self emerged. Sure, there are other scenes where these things happen, but I think these really drive the series.
While her father was pretty outspoken towards his hatred for the Capitol, Katniss reveals she only talks about this stuff in the woods or keeps it in her head. She prides herself of being able to look like she does not care for a thing in the world - clearly illustrated before she and Peeta get on the first train towards the Capitol.
*MOCKINGJAY SPOILERS*
What drove the whole series was Katniss' love for Prim. Ironically, she volunteers herself for her sister, but in the end, she has no sister. The "only" thing to show for her volunteering is the revolution that overthrew the Capitol. In the books, Katniss talks a lot about how it is unbearable to see Prim [insert adjective here]. The main reason why she learns and brushes up on the survival skills her father taught her is because of her love for her sister. Without this affection, one may be able to argue that the wisdom passed down from father to daughter would not have existed, therefore no revolution.
Katrina wrote: "I will admit that it took me a while to grasp what exactly this song means (and I am still looking into it). Reading the Hogwarts Professor article, I had never even thought of Katniss and Gale's f..."sacrifice for the common good. this is what stories need fight for the oppressed and defeat the oppressors.
Isaac Newton once wrote: "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants."With most great people you will find that they benefited from having a great mentor or two through there life. Katniss needed a mentor like her father to explain how she obtained her skills. It follows to reason that if he would teach her to engage in an outlawed activity like hunting that he would teach her the mindset of an outlaw.
While her father was a hero, and likely the most honorable person in the books, I don't know how he could have not existed. Even if left out of the books, as he was in the movies, would it not have been assumed by readers that her father, or some other adult, had been there to teach her hunting and survival skills?
Greg wrote: "Isaac Newton once wrote: "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants."With most great people you will find that they benefited from having a great mentor or two through th..."
I guess people could assume that Gale taught her, since it seems other adults are too afraid to go into the woods, or that Katniss was clever enough to figure most of the stuff out, especially if she was able to get her hands on certain books.
This is where I tend to have a problem with how Hollywood presents these stories. They leave out so much information in exchange for glit and glam. I think that the overview of her father being an individualist is spot on. No matter what kind of society you may live in these basic survival traits can save your life. Being self sufficient is a must to be successful in this world.
~stacy wrote: "We are all born with a spark of our parents within us, who they were, their strengths, weaknesses, thought processes and emotions. I think it is whimsical and romantic to try to surmise who Katniss..."I think that Stacy brings up a good point- regardless of how much we wish that this addition to the story was true (I found myself eating up every word as I read it!)- the notion that Katniss's father was a revolutionary is a big assumption.
I do think that Katniss's father deserves more credit than most readers and the film give him. Although it is an assumption that he was a revolutionary, I think it is safe to say that Katniss inherited his independent and rebellious spirit. Although we can't conclude that he was plotting against the Capitol, he was bold enough to break the law by singing this song in public, teaching his daughter how to trade in the black market, and how to break out of the district to hunt illegally. This undoubtedly had an effect on shaping who Katniss is.
As far as the song - the interpretation of the song as one of a revolutionary who was executed by the Capitol and was calling out to his love to join him seems accurate, or at least in the right direction - at least, this interpretation seems to apply well to this story. Although, I am not sure if Katniss understands that this is the meaning of the song if that's the case. To her the last stanza is about "the man want[ing] his lover dead rather than have her face the evil that awaits her in the world" (chapter 21, pp. 290-291). Even if the song is intended to be an anthem of the revolution - this is not clear to Katniss although it is sentimental to her for other reasons.
I do believe Katniss would have had no chance if it wasn't for her father. He taught her to hunt, how to stand up for herself, and to do the right thing. I would have loved to have seen more of him in flashbacks because I do think he needs more credit than what he got.As far as a unsung hero, I feel like that is a little far. While he did have an influence on Katniss she was the one that had to rise to become the person that she is today.
I think that her father was a great influence on who Katniss is. I agree that he is an unsung hero. Katniss relied on many of the lessons taught to her by her father to survive the hunger games. I think he would have been an excellent mentor.
For one that is very inspiring words of liberty from the book and very inspiring for Katniss. She continued what her father couldn't and carried on his legacy for liberty through what she was taught these principles that also help her survive the hunger games I will say.
Thank you Jonnelle for posting that video! I shared it immediately!Funny enough, I don't remember the context of the song, but I do remember when I was reading the books how influential her dad must have been. Any time she was down to her last chance during the games, she would remember a lesson/skill her father passed down to her (my favorite was tapping the tree for water - genius!). Her father taught her skills that can ensure her and survival independent from The Capitol, which alone can exemplify how discontent he was by living under such a totalitarian society. I believe he passed on his passion for individualism and independence, but it's a far stretch to assume he started a revolution within the mines of District 12.
I think Mr. Everdeen was right to teach his daughter the things she did.
Jonnelle wrote: "Mainstay Productions did an excellent short film on a little Katniss and her father..."Thank you so much for sharing this link! Wonderful!
wow maybe i should enlighten myself for this film myself as well and indulge in more knowledge do you reccomened it professor? i would like the link messaged to me so i may put it in some of my introductory questions at a latter time :0 "may the odds be ever in your favor!"-----Effie Trinket, The Hunger Games
Oswaldo wrote: "i would like the link messaged to me ..."Are you referring to the film Jonnelle recommended? It's above in Message #3 of this thread. I hope this helps!
Amy wrote: "Oswaldo wrote: "i would like the link messaged to me ..."Are you referring to the film Jonnelle recommended? It's above in Message #3 of this thread. I hope this helps!"
yes i would like the link jonnelle had for my family at home.
thnks again professor:) "
may the odds be ever in your favor!"---------
-- Effie Trinket, The Hunger Games
Jonnelle wrote: "Spoilery if you haven't read Catching Fire or Mockingjay:Mainstay Productions did an excellent short film on a little Katniss and her father (and several other Hunger Games - the Second Quarter Q..."
Amazing Jonnelle! This scene carries a very strong message of freedom! I was so taken in. Thank you so much for sharing this!
Her father definitely planted the seed introducing her to life outside the Capitol and taught her everything she needs to know, not only how to survive, but fight back.
Jacob wrote: "Do they mention her dad in the books? I can't remember."Lol. I don't remember him either.
I didn't remember him either, but I only read the first book; however, as a parent, I just assumed her parents taught her the things she knew. I did watch the trailer someone linked above, which I assume is from one of the movies, neither of which I've seen.
There is no doubt that the parents of a hero have a significant effect on their mentality. It's the same for every person though, not just a hero. I believe it could be argued that any single person could attribute some of their attributes to their upbringing. But that doesn't necessarily make the parents a more important character in whatever it is their child hero has done. I have never thought about George Washington's father and how he raised him. While I'm sure it was very important that Katniss's father taught her those things, it was ultimately her that had to utilize that information for whatever cause she got behind. I do think her father had an important role, but so did her mother for birthing her.
Katniss Everdeen is a hunter like her father and would not have the tomboy qualities of herself if she was not raised as a hunter by Mr.Everdeen. this is point blank.
Off TopicWill wrote: I have never thought about George Washington's father and how he raised him. "
I can't recall reading about Washington's or many of the founders fathers. We know the Adams was a family of wealth and privilege. Others could be of interest as Jefferson and Washington acquired most of their wealth through their wives leaving one to think that their parents may not have been rich white men.
If anyone knows where one could learn more about the generation prior can you pass it along.
I believe that everything Katniss knows was taught by her father.
Katniss father must of been a great guy. I think he might've even been a hero in district 12.
I think people make people, how your are taught you develop and learn. I think Katniss' father has an important role in what Katniss became.
Katniss clearly had the traits of an independent rebel or her father would've been wasting his time teaching her things she'd never use. I think he saw it in her and took full advantage of it by planting all the seeds of rebellion knowing she'd use it somehow in the future. If he had not planted the seeds, she may or may not have done things differently.
After all, he...
* taught Katniss to be self-sufficient, knowing what plants to eat, how to swim, how to survive in the forest, etc. (She knows if she finds herself, the katniss plant, she'll never starve, for example.)
* taught Katniss to hunt, not only giving her another way to feed her family, but also providing her the means of entering the black market and trading for other things she and her family need.
* taught Katniss the subversive "The Hanging Tree" song, which plays such a key role in Katniss's unfolding understanding of the world around her and her choices in it.[1]
Your thoughts?
[1] For a fascinating look at "The Hanging Tree," I recommend "Mockingjay Discussion 15: The Hanging Tree" by John Granger at Hogwarts Professor. I'll quote a passage here [Very minor spoilers for Mockingjay!]:
In essence, ‘The Hanging Tree’ calls on the living who love freedom to join the martyred freedom fighter in putting this cause above concerns for their individual lives. It is an invitation to revolution, i.e., to risk death in the hope of a greater life. Mr. Everdeen isn’t singing it because it’s a simple catchy tune; he’s expressing his revolutionary beliefs as openly as he dares and asking others to join him. Mrs. Everdeen, it turns out, was right to be terrified by her husband’s boldness. It’s probably safe to assume that he and Gale’s dad died in a mine explosion that was set by the Capitol to kill men known to be plotting against the regime.
I’m confident this is what Ms. Collins’ version of 'Hanging Tree' means because it is such a match for Katniss, the Mockingjay. She becomes the lightning rod for resistance to the Capitol when she sacrifices herself to save Prim at the Reaping and by her actions in the arena, most notably, her love for Rue and Peeta and her defiant willingness to die for her friend rather than conform to the Hunger Games’ rules. ‘The Hanging Tree’ is the Mockingjay’s song well before Katniss sings it to Pollux, a man who was tortured by the Capitol and would sing the song to the rebels if he could."