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[HELP]some details in The Shadow

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message 1: by Lynn (new)

Lynn (peachtly) | 7 comments I am a SF editor & Wolfe fan in China, and we are trying to publish The Book of New Sun in Chinese. I've done a lot of work in reading and translation , yet there are still some sentences I can't understand. Hope I can get some help here.

THE HOUSE AZURE
While I was undressing I said, “Nevertheless, we all seek to discover what is real. Why is it? Perhaps we are drawn to the theocenter. That’s what the hierophants say,that only that is true.”

what does "theocenter" mean? I can't find this word in dictionary nor can I google it. and what does the whole sentence mean?
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THE LAST YEAR
I carried them to her, and she said my beard had shot up like them, and I should be bluer of cheek than the run of common men, and the next day begged my pardon for it, saying I was that already.

what does "bluer of cheek"and " run of common men" mean here?
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DORCAS
“Your pardon, sieur,” he said. “But I can’t come no nearer. Wet she may be, but she gets too dry for me, or you couldn’t walk upon it.

Does "she" refer to the boat or Cas' body? what does the sentence mean?

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THE PLAY
confirm the outcome of a love affair by putting the elector of one suit atop the patroness of another

If the word suit refer to the some card game, then what does "elector"and "patroness"mean?


message 2: by Piotr (new)

Piotr Szczęsny | 5 comments as we all know wolfe is being vague on purpose sometimes and i think you should translate it to keep it that way. post this request to urth mailing list. at lists.urth.net


message 3: by Bart (new)

Bart Everson (editor) | 11 comments THE HOUSE AZURE

I'm not sure what exactly theocenter means either. It appears to be combination of theo (meaning god) and center (meaning, well, center) so perhaps it means the center of god? It is evocative but far from clear to this native English speaker.

THE LAST YEAR

This is easier. "Bluer of cheek" means having a thicker beard. Whiskers make the cheek look blue. The "run of common men" simply means "characteristics of the average or typical person."

DORCAS

I believe "she" refers to the ground. The ground is swampy and wet, but not watery enough for the boat to pass.

THE PLAY

My guess would be that "elector" and "patroness" refer to specific cards in the game. Again, this is evocative rather than clear. An elector is someone who can vote, or someone empowered to select an emperor, but it might more generally be construed to mean "one who elects" i.e. one who chooses. Patroness is the feminine form of patron.

Good luck with your translation. I hope this is helpful.


message 4: by Lynn (new)

Lynn (peachtly) | 7 comments Bart wrote: "THE HOUSE AZURE

I'm not sure what exactly theocenter means either. It appears to be combination of theo (meaning god) and center (meaning, well, center) so perhaps it means the center of god? It ..."


thank you so much!


message 5: by Lynn (new)

Lynn (peachtly) | 7 comments Mischief wrote: "as we all know wolfe is being vague on purpose sometimes and i think you should translate it to keep it that way. post this request to urth mailing list. at lists.urth.net"

yes,you are right,wolfe is being vague on purpose sometimes, and i‘ll keep that in mind.


message 6: by Lynn (new)

Lynn (peachtly) | 7 comments Bart wrote: "THE HOUSE AZURE

I'm not sure what exactly theocenter means either. It appears to be combination of theo (meaning god) and center (meaning, well, center) so perhaps it means the center of god? It ..."


i'll translate the word "theocenter" as "the core of divinity
"
I guess the sentence suggests "the worlds(planets) are all attracted to the Sun"


message 7: by Palmyrah (last edited Apr 10, 2014 09:18AM) (new)

Palmyrah | 41 comments Theocenter: Godhead, or as Bart says, 'the core of divinity'. 'Theocentre' isn't a kosher word – 'theos' is Greek and 'centrum' is Latin, and you're not supposed to mix roots. Though I suppose Gene would argue that 'centrum' is derived from the Greek kentron.

Bluer of cheek: it doesn't actually refer to beard but to stubble; a couple of generations ago it was common to refer to a hirsute but clean-shaven man as 'blue-cheeked'.

She: again Bart is correct, the boatman is referring to the ground. He says that if it's shallow enough for wading, it's not deep enough for his boat.

Elector and Patroness: picture cards from a deck. The Elector is equivalent to the King. Wolfe has taken the name from history, probably that of the late Holy Roman Empire: Electors were princes who ruled their own kingdoms, and elected from amongst their own number one to be titular ruler over all. Patroness is a little more elusive; it could refer to the ancient Roman or Byzantine empire, where patronage was a legal condition, or perhaps to princesses who patronized religious orders in mediaeval times. But like I said, they're just names he's chosen to use instead of King and Queen in a deck of playing-cards.


message 8: by Palmyrah (last edited Apr 09, 2014 09:07AM) (new)

Palmyrah | 41 comments MISCHIEF: Gene Wolfe is never vague. His game is to be utterly precise, yet misdirect the reader through creative use of language. You have to watch him like a hawk when you read him.


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