Yamada Monogatari by Richard Parks

[[deleted user]]

This is the discussion topic for our chosen December, 2013, SF/F Anthology discussion:


Yamada Monogatari: Demon Hunter by Richard Parks

[[deleted user]]

This anthology contains the following stories, all of which are about Yamada no Goji , a "Demon Hunter" in Heian Japan.

Fox Tails
Moon Viewing at Shijo Bridge
A Touch of Hell
Hot Water
The River Road Three Crossings
The Bride Doll
The Mansion of Bones
Sanji's Demon
Lady of the Ghost Willow
The Ghost of Shinoda Forest

These are all in the order they were originally published, except for "The Bride Doll", which is the most recent story but appears in the middle of the anthology.

The final four of these stories are all available in the on-line magazine Beneath Ceaseless Skies and are available free online here in PDF, Mobi, & ePub: "The Mansion of Bones", "Sanji’s Demon" part 1 & "Sanji’s Demon", part 2, "Lady of the Ghost Willow" and "The Ghost of Shinoda Forest"

[Ben]

I nominated this collection because I love Richard Parks and I do not feel he gets the recognition or audience he deserves. Also I thought that this was a good entry point to his work and that this is a book that many people in the group would enjoy.

These stories are very easy reading which is ideal for this time of year where there is so much to do and so much on. With there being the same characters in each story it is a very easy book to sink your teeth into.

When I read these elegant stories I felt transported into early Japan and found it to be a hugely rewarding experience.

I would be very interested to know what members of the group make of these stories.

[[deleted user]]

I liked the collection overall.

The ancient Japanese setting (Heian period, 794-1185 CE, is pretty-much pre-samurai, coincident with ancient Japanese novel "Genji Monogatari"). (It's interesting Parks calls that book "Tales of Genji" when he refers to it in "Yamada Monogatari", but doesn't title the collection "Tales of Yamada" - "Monogatari" being Japanese for "saga" or "tales".) Ahem, before I digressed I was going to say that the non-European setting was refreshing for a sword and sorcery saga. Parks does a pretty good job with the culture as well as the Japanese-flavored fantasy elements (yokai, rei, fox spirits, wards.)

Yamada is a very low ranking noble who's always broke (and drinks a lot.) The stories in this collection were written over a period of five years. Yamada is more private detective than Demon Hunter. He starts out a little Noir, but ends up a little more Sherlock.

In all but one of the short stories in the collection, Yamada teams up with Kenji, a monk who doesn't take his vows very seriously but seems handy with magical wards and seals, for a price.

The stories are all told the largely straightforward manner, using the general structure of a mystery story, but of course tailored for the short story format (meaning not too many suspects, not too many clues.)

On the negative side, Parks doesn't always play by the rules of the Mystery genre, the foremost of which is the author is supposed to subtly slip into the story the facts necessary for the reader to solve the mystery (though with sufficient misdirection that the reader doesn't figure it out until she ends up slapping her forehead when it's finally revealed.) Some of these things may be cultural that someone in Japan would automatically know. ("I knew he wasn't really a Rabbi, because he ate a bacon cheeseburger for lunch.")

[Hillary]

I enjoyed this collection; I'd agree w/Ben's characterizations of the stories as easy reading. It's also nice to read some short stories that have some action in them.

I'd also agree that the mystery element, even though it provides the structure for the stories, seems a bit underplayed. I found myself guessing the "perpetrator" early on in nearly every case. (view spoiler)[ The very brief introduction of Lady Abe clued me in that she was probably going to be a major player. And I thought the discussion of "human transfiguration" of the bathing fox-maidens in "A Touch of Hell," while a nice moment, made the ogre's identity pretty clear. Parks acknowledges his heavy debt to the noir tradition, but even so, the vast majority of the stories rely on the the-woman-isn't-what-she-seems trope (a particular give away in the stories where there's only one woman! -- "Ghost Willow" was a nice twist on this). (hide spoiler)] It will be interesting to see how Parks handles a novel-length Yamada story; I think the ability to flesh out more characters & drop more clues will make for even stronger work.

I think "Moon Viewing" and "Hot Water" were my favorite stories. The character shading is what I'm probably most drawn to. I enjoy getting to know Parks' version of the Japanese spirit/monster world, from red lantern ghosts to snow demons, and it's nice to see different aspects of the world (like the battle scene in "Sanji's Demon"). Parks also has a knack for a strong last line -- I'm think of "Moon Viewing" and "Touch of Hell."

[Ben]

I am glad G33ze3r and Hillary both enjoyed, if not loved the stories. I think that they are a lot of fun but also exhibit a huge amount of craft and whilst the stories are easy reading to me they are not throwaway and I have thought about several of the stories quite a bit after finishing them.

I do not mind it too much when stories with a mystery element do not give you too much to go on for the surprises but I didnt notice anything in the stories that was not to some extent guessable.

For those who have read some of these stories I would be interested to know:-

1) whether or not you feel you would like to read more Parks, whether the now Yamada novels coming out soon or other stories?

2) I see some parallels with the polish Witcher series, both involve a demon hunter, both started as short stories but novels followed, each avoid western european myths for their inspiration and each has a real sense of place. For those who have also read or looked at these stories how do they feel they compare?

3) Some people in reviews have said that they found the world building to be Japan-lite or very much a diluted, western friendly version of Japan. Some people may not be familiar enough with Japanese culture to comment on this too much and I will give my thoughts later but what do you think?

4) did you see much evolution during the stories either of the characters and their relationship with each other or the writing - the stories were written over about 10 years?

[[deleted user]]

Ben wrote: "3) Some people in reviews have said that they found the world building to be Japan-lite or very much a diluted, western friendly version of Japan. Some people may not be familiar enough with Japanese culture to comment on this too much and I will give my thoughts later but what do you think?...."

In the same sense that most of the usual sword and sorcery is "Euro-lite". I'm pretty sure the ancient world was a lot less neat than such fantasy admits. I find this complaint specious in a novel, but ridiculous about a short story.

(The complaint often comes from those whose expertise derives from watching every episode of Naruto & Inuyasha, or conversely from those who despise those who've watched episode of Naruto & Inuyasha.)

I re-read the section on the Heian period in Clements' A Brief History of the Samurai, and at least Parks has the basic historical elements correct, and he's taken other cultural elements, e.g. the use of poems (tanka) in communication among nobles from the Tale of Genji. His use of Japanese supernatural folklore is consistent with other sources I've read, mapped to Western terminology as is to be expected, but as with Western folklore, there is no one definitive definition. (How many variations of vampires does pop culture offer today?) I didn't did like the way he employed the Japanese terms for most of these critters: Oni, Rei, Yokai,... not sure why he skimped on Kitsune (fox). And the Miyazaki fan in me was really hoping for a Tanuki, too.



Hey, you didn't say there was going to be a test at the end of the book! :) (I'll get to your other questions, later.)

Edit: Fix error

[Ben]

"Hey, you didn't say there was going to be a test at the end of the book! :) (I'll get to your other questions, later.) " just trying both to satisfy my curiosity and stimulate talking about the book.

I do think the stories cater but do not pander to a western audience. If we were given something that would be more authentic it would be less understandable and I think Parks gets the balance right. These are much more accessable than say In Ghostly Japan although I also enjoy those stories/accounts of ghost tales.

I agree with you about the terminology but it didnt really bother me much.

I also love Miyazaki - such great films.

[[deleted user]]

Ben wrote: "I agree with you about the terminology but it didnt really bother me much."

Whoops, I meant to say "I did like the way Parks employed the Japanese terms for most of these critters." (I use voice dictation, and every now and then Dragon fails to grok my meaning. Usually it doesn't outright contradict my intent, it just defuses things. I hate it when that happens.)

I thought staying with the Japanese names not only added to the sense of a different culture, but served as a reminder that the concepts weren't identical to the Western traditions.

[[deleted user]]

Ben wrote: "1) whether or not you feel you would like to read more Parks, whether the now Yamada novels coming out soon or other stories?...."

Yeah, I put a couple of Kindle samples of a couple of his books on my Kindle. It may be a bit before I get to them, though. (I find I'm using Amazon's Kindle "Read a Sample" option to keep yet another"to-read" list, this one on my Kindle's carousel.)

(I have a couple of other samurai-related fantasy books on my to-read list ahead of them, both sequels to books I've read earlier this year.)

[Hillary]

Re Q2&1: I haven't read any of the Witcher stories/books, but I'm curious now. I'm definitely interesting in seeing what a Yamada novel will look like. As a Parks fan, Ben, are there titles you recommend?

Q3: I didn't have this impression, but I can kind of see how some people might. There were things about the world that I thought seemed to be focuses on when plot-convenient but otherwise neglected (like some of the rules of rank/courtesy). On the other hand, it also seems like a kind of stereotyping to think that b/c these characters are Asian they *wouldn't* have some of the same desires or act in many (not all) of the same ways as characters in a more European fantasy setting.

Parks is definitely making choices about how he thinks characters of the period would have acted & how closely he thinks they would have adhered to the ideals that might be reflected in surviving literature. I think religion is a good example of a historical/cultural detail that is woven into the world & treated fairly complexity. We touch on Kenji's ambivalent relation to religion & it's made clear that being a monk was not a choice for him. One of the reasons I like "Hot Water" is how the story takes up old/new religions & systems of patronage as a theme.

It's also interesting how the Abe family appears in the first story and then falls out of the picture, but we get a reference to the Abe being in rebellion (something I'd love to see/read more of) -- for those in the know, where the Abe and Fujiwara actual noble families of the time period?

A start of Q4 -- I could definitely see a dramatic difference b/t the first & second story collected, where the second reveals Yamada's past and court connections (I wonder if this is what Parks was alluding to when he said in his intro that the character "surprised" him), but I'm not sure I perceived a clear overarching evolution over time. I felt Parks was trying different things (let's change up the setting, let's explore Kenji's motivation, let's re-visit some favorite characters) & for the most part I thought they were good things to try. I did like how many of the characters came together again in the last story, although the story itself was a bit disappointing to me -- so moving into novel territory seems like a logical next step.

[[deleted user]]

Hillary wrote: "were the Abe and Fujiwara actual noble families of the time period?..."

My history books say Fujiwara were indeed the dominate clan through the Heian period, mostly as Parks suggests, by providing wives to the Emperor and serving as regent and dominating the court bureaucracy.

The Abe clan achieved substantial territorial dominance north of the Heian capital (what's now Kyoto), and some minor disputes finally flared to open rebellion in 1056, eventually repressed by provincial governor Yoriyoshi no Minamoto and his son, Yoshie.

The Emishi mentioned in a couple of stories were also fact, a racially distinct group with their own language, but without central governance; (more a scattered group of tribes, considered barbarians by the more organized Japanese in the capital.)

[[deleted user]]

Ben wrote: "4) did you see much evolution during the stories either of the characters and their relationship with each other or the writing - the stories were written over about 10 years?...."

I didn't notice much evolution in the characters.

The main style difference I noticed was the first story seemed to want to be a little "noir" in style, with the snarky first-person narration. I think Parks dropped that because it didn't fit the period, and most of the other story seem more like Sherlock Holmes ("elementary my dear Kenji").

I do think the character personalities changed much at all. Yamada was the only character with any real development (I thought Kenji was rather hollow ofuda-dispensing exposition device rather than a real character, which isn't unusual in a short story.) A couple of the stories offer bits of Yamada's background, but without actually changing the character.

I did like the fact that a couple of the supporting characters that originally seem to be one shots reappeared in later stories. For example, Lady Kuzunoha appeared in both the first ("Fox Tail") and last ("Ghosts of the Shinoda Forest") stories in the collection.

[Ben]

"As a Parks fan, Ben, are there titles you recommend?"
Although I am a Park's fan he is a writer that i have only recently discovered so I have only so far read a few stories that are not on this collection. I did absolutely love this one though, and it is perhaps my favorite Parks story so far
http://www.beneath-ceaseless-skies.co...

There are a couple of Yamada stories that did not make the collection on BCS - http://www.beneath-ceaseless-skies.co... and http://www.beneath-ceaseless-skies.co...

I didnt see too much change in the characters either although they get more and more fleshed out as the stories go on. I read some of the stories first in BCS and I read some of the more recent stories before the earlier ones and only reread them for this discussion. I did not feel I needed to have read the early stories to fully enjoy the later ones but where characters reappear it is definitely more satisfying if you have already encountered the characters first time round.

In his intro Parks says that he originally envisaged Yamada as a Sam Spadeesque character although this changed after the first couple of stories. However i did not feel this was CONVEYED as we do not get too much of the character in these early stories so whilst how he saw the character changed a lot from the early stories to the late I do think that we see the character pretty similarly throughout. I didnt pick up on the snarky first person narration G33z3r commented on but I would probably notice it if I looked at the story again. I did feel that stylistically some of the later stories were increasingly elegant.

There is much to enjoy in the witcher stories although I will warn anyone checking it out that the freshness in ideas is not quite matched by the language which suffers a little either due to elements of translation or just because it is a bit clunky at times. Still if you can get beyond that it is worth checking out. In the first witcher book the early stories are melded into a book and I personally would have preferred it if they had just kept the stories as they were originally. I really like with the Parks how the stories work both as stories on their own and that they compliment each other when reading it as a whole.