Literary Award Winners Fiction Book Club discussion
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Gilead - Through Page 164
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As I already talked with Ashley, I'm having difficulties with the religious aspect of this book... my story is a bit like the narrator's brother. I was brought up in catholic family but I grew out, if I can put it that way, of religion. For me it's interesting to observe such a great religious devotion, while very different from my point of view. Having said that, this still causes some clashes while I'm reading it.
Wife of reverend seems to me the most interesting character so far, so little have been said of her, surely more to come.
I'm beginning to pull in, like the calm beauty of the prose, but I'm not fully into it yet...
I'm at page 97 and to be honest I am surprised I have managed to keep reading this book. I find it to be rather boring. I am not invested in the main character or the story at all. I thought I would be more interested in reading about someone who is so religious as it is so different from my personal views. Sadly that has not been the case so far. I think it rambles a bit too much and I'm finding myself skim reading so I have to go back and reread paragraphs often.I rarely give up on books so I will keep reading hoping something pulls me in.
I have a feeling that the young Boughton is going to mess up a bit with the reverend's family life... so maybe it will become at least a bit plot driven Ashley and easier to read, I would like that too.
I'm loving the book. I feel it has so many pearls of wisdom, like on page 47, it says " I read somewhere that a thing that does not exist in relation to anything else cannot exist". That can mean love, work, school, etc. also, there is a mystery to this reverend. I originally thought suicide because he wanted his affairs, his regrets In order. But with "angina pectoris" which is the worst. Having your heart have issues has lead many to fear pain and death.
Also, I've read in proverbs and finally understood what it meant when , probably the King James Version in this book, on page 39, it say," The full soul loatheth an honeycomb; but to the hungry soul every bitter thing is sweet". Not to go off on the "fiction of the story" but the reverend, states when in you are fulfilled in your soul, you are able to think clearly. But being in a bad situation , example , like living in a bad town or a old home or job and not really being able to know what you want if your smart enough to recognize that your functioning on survival mode, and every where else or someone else is life job, person hood is great. I think personally, the book isn't so much about religion but his regrets and....the reverend is up to something. If it was religion, it'd be sitting on the shelf with"The Shack". Trying to finish this today.
Also, I've read in proverbs and finally understood what it meant when , probably the King James Version in this book, on page 39, it say," The full soul loatheth an honeycomb; but to the hungry soul every bitter thing is sweet". Not to go off on the "fiction of the story" but the reverend, states when in you are fulfilled in your soul, you are able to think clearly. But being in a bad situation , example , like living in a bad town or a old home or job and not really being able to know what you want if your smart enough to recognize that your functioning on survival mode, and every where else or someone else is life job, person hood is great. I think personally, the book isn't so much about religion but his regrets and....the reverend is up to something. If it was religion, it'd be sitting on the shelf with"The Shack". Trying to finish this today.
I'll restate my first quote, this message board covers what I said on page 47. " I read somewhere that a thing that does not exist in relation to anything else cannot itself be said to exist". Profound in so many ways!!
I wish I could appreciate it as much as you Lisa, I'm getting till the end of second third, and I'm fighting with myself not to put it down...If the beginning is slow, that's ok, you wait till the story evolves, but it's still just him (reverend) and his thoughts, and every time,seems-to-be-interesting story comes along (his grandfather's, the young Boughton's etc) it's never told...
Reverend's thoughts on the other hand are neither provocative enough nor even interesting enough to make up for the lack of plot... Maybe it's my mood as you pointed out Lisa or maybe just the book. But I might pause for a while until more of our group members catch up with me or points out the things I missed that would make me to keep on reading... I hate to put books down especially after I read half of it, so I might as well keep on fighting with it till the end...
Reading is subjective. I know for me if I'm stuck on a book, and we read, book after book from all type of ilk, it's difficult. Plus the holidays have us kinda occupied, at least for me. But my mother, and my teachers pushed me to be humble in whatever I read. I'm a restless person in general and if it has an award, I want to know why. Also, it's like I pointed out with the honey situation reverend wrote in the book, you may be satisfied within your soul today so the rest is blasé. It's like the first bite of food, no matter what when you have that first bite when your starving, your brain tells you it's the best...then depending on your satisfaction, when you repeat that same food, you notice something different. It's like the novel
In "The great Gatsby" ( it's been a while since I've sat down with it) but I will never forget the psychology the professor said about Jay was in love with the "memory", not reality. You cannot relive a moment. Also, John Mayer sings,in his one of his CDs " do you love me or the memory of me ?"
I went through readers block after 13 years of reading and studying and read magazines for the spring and summer. I had to tell myself, it's okay to do that. You may learn something different and then your hunger grows back and develops and you then you continue. Plus being an atheist with this book must be tough. I see the cut off as a mystery, why? There is something there!
However, if I were you, put it down, only pick up when you have your deadline to meet and feed your soul, either with a computer game, or something fun you enjoy. It's only going to change your opinion of your read and experience of this book and effect your argument when in discussion.
In "The great Gatsby" ( it's been a while since I've sat down with it) but I will never forget the psychology the professor said about Jay was in love with the "memory", not reality. You cannot relive a moment. Also, John Mayer sings,in his one of his CDs " do you love me or the memory of me ?"
I went through readers block after 13 years of reading and studying and read magazines for the spring and summer. I had to tell myself, it's okay to do that. You may learn something different and then your hunger grows back and develops and you then you continue. Plus being an atheist with this book must be tough. I see the cut off as a mystery, why? There is something there!
However, if I were you, put it down, only pick up when you have your deadline to meet and feed your soul, either with a computer game, or something fun you enjoy. It's only going to change your opinion of your read and experience of this book and effect your argument when in discussion.
Bottom line so far and simply
Both reverends feel differently about murder.
It's comes down to a righteous kill vs cold blooded murder. There is a difference. Even legally.
How did you feel when Osama Bin Lauden died after the mass murder of 911?
We had a word game on good reads, someone wrote "plane" I wrote September 11th. Another wrote, "forgiveness" she's a Piaget. I'm not. There are people who live daily from the what if's of that loved one gone. I'm a Justice person. Cause and effect. I was glad he died by Special Forces. And not on his terms.
Now the differences between the reverends:
The first who left to join the Union to be a chaplain instead of a grey beard, wanted to greet the call of war and the devastation of slavery within the Civil War.
The other reverend feels war is too devastating and has to deal with the "what's left". That may be where Jack Bourougn comes in, maybe he's adopted from the effects of the war and resents being raised without his real father.
Both related, but as adults, how donee deal with going our own way. Yet are bonded by memories and blood.
To explain for those who forgot psych 101 in high school:
It's Piaget situation. In psychology, there are many theories, scientifically and hypothesis regarding the mind and how we relate and are wired. Every doctor in Psych has a proven hypothesis and believes xyz and their are many to explain human behavior and physiologically how our minds operate. But the point is we are wired differently. Thus Robinson's
Point of how do we deal with manhood, being an adult and issues of murder.
To give a brief explanation on how Piaget is known for and his findings on the human mind:
With Piaget, he had an epiphany one day and discovered that some people are wired to a " mercy" kind of person. They give mercy instead of Justice. Thus explaining the second reverend. He felt murder was taking a life, no matter the circumstances. But he is also a weak man. Thus his regrets. Going back to my good reads game. This book should ask you what is your definition of murder and what kind of person are you? And why do we go one way when raised another.
Further, the coming of minds.
Also I looked up the title ", Gilead ", it means a district of ancient Palestine, East of the Jordan River( presently in Jordan)
Palestine means Holy land. Also called Canaan. Land of Promise. That is what Gilead : a land of promise.
I've got to finish this because truthfully, my instinct is this book this isn't umbriferous about religion. It's about relationship and having the story be "A land of Promise".
Both reverends feel differently about murder.
It's comes down to a righteous kill vs cold blooded murder. There is a difference. Even legally.
How did you feel when Osama Bin Lauden died after the mass murder of 911?
We had a word game on good reads, someone wrote "plane" I wrote September 11th. Another wrote, "forgiveness" she's a Piaget. I'm not. There are people who live daily from the what if's of that loved one gone. I'm a Justice person. Cause and effect. I was glad he died by Special Forces. And not on his terms.
Now the differences between the reverends:
The first who left to join the Union to be a chaplain instead of a grey beard, wanted to greet the call of war and the devastation of slavery within the Civil War.
The other reverend feels war is too devastating and has to deal with the "what's left". That may be where Jack Bourougn comes in, maybe he's adopted from the effects of the war and resents being raised without his real father.
Both related, but as adults, how donee deal with going our own way. Yet are bonded by memories and blood.
To explain for those who forgot psych 101 in high school:
It's Piaget situation. In psychology, there are many theories, scientifically and hypothesis regarding the mind and how we relate and are wired. Every doctor in Psych has a proven hypothesis and believes xyz and their are many to explain human behavior and physiologically how our minds operate. But the point is we are wired differently. Thus Robinson's
Point of how do we deal with manhood, being an adult and issues of murder.
To give a brief explanation on how Piaget is known for and his findings on the human mind:
With Piaget, he had an epiphany one day and discovered that some people are wired to a " mercy" kind of person. They give mercy instead of Justice. Thus explaining the second reverend. He felt murder was taking a life, no matter the circumstances. But he is also a weak man. Thus his regrets. Going back to my good reads game. This book should ask you what is your definition of murder and what kind of person are you? And why do we go one way when raised another.
Further, the coming of minds.
Also I looked up the title ", Gilead ", it means a district of ancient Palestine, East of the Jordan River( presently in Jordan)
Palestine means Holy land. Also called Canaan. Land of Promise. That is what Gilead : a land of promise.
I've got to finish this because truthfully, my instinct is this book this isn't umbriferous about religion. It's about relationship and having the story be "A land of Promise".
Mod
Mod
I think it pretty much sums up the book...
I really appreciate the previous comments about the small bits of wisdom and what keeps others reading this book. I have picked this one up and put it down many times. Probably not the greatest book to start off with for me, with this book club. But I am now finally caught up into the magic and beauty of the prose. I find that if I allow myself to read it for at least 20 minutes, then I can't stop for an hour. The reverend's voice, the way he circles around, and reminds himself of other things, and retells the same story over and over with a little more detail every time--I find it beguiling. I am REALLY enjoying, like Tamara said, the glimpses we get of his little son. The child of old age is unspeakably precious, he says. I have an 18 month old, and my dad, who is 63, is incredibly tender with him, more tender with him than he was with his own sons, my brothers. He often wonders why my son is so precious to him. I also love the way the book is written to his future son. He often says that he regrets that the boy has grown up fatherless, knowing that by the time his son reads his letters, he will be grown. The sense that an enormous amount of time has passed since the reverend wrote the words we're reading lends a very sad aura to the whole book. The book is made up of the words of a dead man. Nathaniel Hawthorne wrote in House of the Seven Gables, "We read in dead men's books! We laugh at dead men's jokes, and cry at dead men's pathos!” The dead, the "imperishable" as the Reverend calls them, sometimes have more sway over us than the living. They certainly outnumber us. This sense of death, of the narrator being gone makes every word more precious to me.
Mod
I'm really glad that you gave the book time and are now really enjoying it.
I agree, "knowing" that we are reading this after the author has died (and maybe from the POV of his now grown up son) really makes the words more "precious" or almost finite. Like there is no way to take them back now, and to really just sit back and enjoy the story and reflect on your own life through the POV of your father's. So interesting.
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