Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion
III. Goodreads Readers
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What's the best way for Self-Pub Authors to get more readers?
Since three days ago, shortly after I started this thread, a handful of people discussed how they've backed away from the frontlines of promoting so-to-speak. This is understandable, to each his own. Being a published author now myself I think I see promotional messages a lot different than I would were I not in that boat myself. However, that's not to say that I don't get pretty annoyed when I see posts selling their book where it doesn't even fit into the discussion, tacky.
Referring back to Laurel, L.L. & others several days ago (page 1):
Giveaways are tough in my opinion. I am happy that I received a few reviews from the two I ran here and on Librarything, heck that's better than none! I did go into mine knowing that people like free stuff, period. Who knows what everyone's motives are when they sign up for free books. I will admit that I've signed up for giveaways of books that I might not otherwise read if I had to pay for them. On the other hand I've marked books as "to-read" and simply have yet to get around to them, delayed reaction. The author will not know once I do pick up the book that that sale is associated with the giveaway, unless of course I put it in a review! So in that sense, giveaways are more a chance to increase your visibility than they are to get reviews. There are a lot of books you just wouldn't see if they weren't in front of you in that list saying "MAYBE YOU'LL WIN ME!" As I've said elsewhere, don't we do this all over the place in our lives? Trust me, I beeline to samples in the grocery store without any intention to buy anything more than milk. These are things I think authors need to think about when you sign yourself up for a giveaway. I mean hey, one of my books quickly went up on Amazon for a dollar less than my sale price stating it appears to never have been read...hmm...but moving along…I don't know that it helped me as my website is "budding" still but I also posted my giveaway information on my website. I doubt it hurt.
Might I say before I go any further I'm so pleased that this discussion is still so alive, thanks people!!
Andrew & S. et al.:
As I started off saying in the beginning, I do understand why you might want to be more hands off, it can be a tricky game. We need to promote our books but we also don't want to become a nuisance and push people away. I do think that including your book title in your signature is a good thing, such is evidenced at the beginning of this thread. It's nice to know when you're "talking" to people on these threads if they're authors and then too if they give their title in their signature (not intrusive or pushy in my opinion) I can very easily look you up from there. One post you create might make people curious. Martyn mentioned adding he's a sci-fi writer in his signature in other non-writing related threads. Good point btw about checking your stats to see where people are coming from.
I do agree that word of mouth is so important. This is something I need to work on more in terms of my physical location however I am trying to get myself out there on the net, getting involved where I can, commenting in threads, on articles, and adding to promotional threads when information is requested.
Congrats to all who have their books in libraries. I'm going to reach out to mine. A bonus of course is being put in their local author section where people may browse just to see who's out there.
There's a lot of work that goes in to marketing, and I wonder how many of us took that into consideration when we jumped out there? No doubt just one reason why it's important not to be focused on the money. I know for myself too that very early on, before I even got my published books in hand, I felt very hesitant about giving free books away but now I understand that I'm a nobody in poetry for the most part so I've just got to put my work in to be seen even if they means giving books away for free. Have you guys heard of Book Crossing? I'm going to release a few of my books for sure and cross my fingers!
W.J. et al. (and others):
I didn't sign up for KDP select because I don't want to be exclusive. I've had some Amazon & BN sales (though not too many right now ;-)) and in the near future I plan to offer the book for sale on my website. I did it like this because I want to make it as easy as possible for people to pick up a copy, e-book or paperback, when they feel like it. I didn't want to single out Nook or Kindle users, or anyone for that matter. Not knowing exactly who my audience is I don't know what device they do or don't have!
Teresa, it is definitely a juggle: marketing vs. writing. I know when I'm working on writing a new piece I think about my book that's out there now and the work I owe it in terms of promoting it. Then I spend time marketing and I burn out from writing! I see that it's all part of the job in more than one sense. I add to the vote: yes it's a marathon not a sprint.
Good advice Maggie. While having a website just adds to the things you have to do it does give people a chance to get to know you better because that's kind of your world. I think just as we have to be creative when we write, we have to get really creative when we promote.
No doubt we all agree a lack in quality amounts to a lack in quantity!
L.L. it makes some sense if you're good at drawing your covers! Some people seem to just use a colorful background and WordArt and call it a day. I say if you're talented in some visual mediums it's at least worth giving it a shot at creating your own cover then getting feedback before you publish. At the same time you have to be willing to admit to yourself when your personal art just doesn't cut it! And Andrew's right too that the nature of your writing, your book, is going to dictate how best the cover fits, especially the genre you write in, or genres.
#40: BarkLessWagMore post from page one: GREAT! Thanks for the input!
#45: Judy: I absolutely agree. That's similar to what I've said elsewhere about us SPAs taking ourselves more seriously. I also started a publishing company. I'll have to try the bookmark thing, I've seen several people on here say they've done so as well and heard about it elsewhere. This gets me thinking about "Complete Guide to Self-Publishing" and their recommendation to create a marketing plan, well I didn't listen to that so well! Having an actual plan helps to sell your book to businesses as well, because then they see you're serious. So before I approach any other businesses [than I have] I need to bite the bullet and create a plan. Is this something others have done or meant to (I've been telling myself to from the beginning and I've kind of skimped on a REAL plan) or maybe you think about a plan now?
#46: T: Well said. I don't believe it's enough to only do one thing or another, you have to be all around and hope you're in the right place at the right time. You'll probably find some fans, some readers here on GR, maybe on LT, Shelfari, FB, Twitter but you can't stop there. Like you and others have said, you have to go out into the real world too. There are a lot of people who don't like social networking and a lot more who are sort of connected but don't see the need to sign up to so many different sites. It can be a lot to keep up with! All part of learning your audience and being patient. Finding readers/fans/audience requires some strategy!
On this note too, I believe these days it's just too easy to think you can go viral be it singing, dancing, writing, art, comedy, whatever, our culture is saturated with avenues to show off and do-it-yourself that just SEEM EASY. And when we see people succeed at going viral too many of us jump in thinking that’s all we have to do to "make it big".
#47: L.F.: Amen
eLPy
author of "That Which Lives Within"
www.littlefacepublications.com
J.T. wrote: "I know that. But a bad review qualifies the good ones. Because not everyone will like your writing."Not really. Your comments section reads like your family and friends left you five star reviews, then someone picked it up for real and thought your book was a bit disappointment.
I'm going to try this multiple quote thing because, I could be wrong, but I think when I hit reply it notifies the person I'm replying to and seeing as I haven't replied in a bit I'm trying to cover much ground! (Sorry folks, wink wink, maybe it'll help bring newbies and oldbies back around! He he) McKenzie wrote: "Maybe this has been covered already - what about blogging? Not about your book. But maybe your process, your learning and life experiences, bits and pieces of work getting posted? And doing the Ama..."
Good Point. I do blog however admittedly I haven't been that consistent. In the last several months or so I have been blogging about my writing process and my writing life. I think you also have a point about making an effort to make a book unique. It helps if you do some research even on your title before you publish because you never know, there may be a million other people with the same title, so when people search your title it could get lost in the mix. I was fortunate in that the title that came to my head is not so common in books and poetry. I also worked on several different versions of my cover because I knew it was important that it stand out. When I created my cover I thought about myself walking through a bookstore and asked myself, "What would I say if I saw this? Would I be inclined to pick it up and see what this cover is about?" And I wanted my cover to fit my genre - poetry - and overall subject matter - self-discovery and reflection - and I believe I achieved this. As well my title and cover fit each other. DISCLAIMER: I'm not saying this to brag about myself or my work, rather I'm sharing my experience as an example. By asking/pointing these things out you're showing just how much we can do and how creative we can be! Plus we can learn a lot from each other's ideas. I plan to do some poetry recordings and post them on my website. I would like to create an audio book in the future. I believe these are great ideas because it's very interesting to hear a poet read their actual work, not to mention people like to experience different mediums. :-)
Michael wrote: "The majority of my book sales have come locally. I self-publish, and after months of exclusively attempting to sell my books through Amazon and Smashwords and getting a miniscule response, I made ..."
Thanks for sharing your success with us! I know personally as I stated in my previous post I need to do more on the ground footwork in addition to continuing to reach all around the world wide web. It takes a lot of time to do both but I think the internet networking affords a certain amount of comfort - this is pretty obvious since we get to chill at our computers, maybe eating something, drinking some hot chocolate instead of trodding through the snow - that being in person simply does not offer. And yet, this is the nature of being an author, an artist, you put yourself and your work out there. People want to meet you, see you, hear you, experience that you are real. Plus it means a lot more and I think everyone, including the author, gets more out of it. I know the interactions I have had had this effect on me.
D.L. wrote: "The paperback of my novel has outsold my online edition by nearly 2:1. I have participated in book readings, arts festivals, did a book launch which (while mainly attended by family and friends) sa..."
Well done D.L. in selling more paperbacks! I think it's fair to say that more people are reading electronically, it's more convenient and cheaper, so for you to have sold physical copies is great. While my book is out, like you I will be holding an official book launch. I'm looking forward to this even if friends and family make up the most people because they might bring a few people and this should still generate attention from passersby. Too I would think that even these people will learn a lot more about me/you as a writer. Did it have that affect for you even amongst your family and friends?
Mark wrote: "Shomeret wrote: "I do read self-published authors. I just need to read a sample and be impressed by it. I read yours on your website and you're very good. I just ordered your book from Amazon.
..."
Hi Mark, I know you asked this question to Shomeret but I just wanted to reply as I'm also a reader and second Shomeret in saying that I've met/learned about authors through this site by reading their posts that stand out to me. If you scan through the discussion threads you're bound to find more and more that stand out to you even if they are promotional. I might visit profiles as well as websites, articles or links to their book titles if they're listed.
If you didn't read one of my first posts than I will repeat here that I have learned through these discussions that there are quite a few readers who want to see/hear authors interacting on this discussion forums. Create a presence.
Mark wrote: "eLPy wrote: "So I'm going to jump out here and try to run this topic from some of the things talked about in the super thread about why more people don't read self-published books. Of course if y..."
If I could print my books at home and have them turn out as well as it did sending my book to a printer than I would!! But for now I'm not a professional printer and have plenty on my plate writing and putting the book together in addition to designing.
Paula wrote: "I find that there are some traditionally pubbed authors out there that are overrated and really do not write well at all. Those faults don't belong only to the self-pubbed author. I hated Gone by G..."
Wow, I've heard of Gone, saw it many times in Publishers Weekly and wondered if it was any good.
Now 50 Shades I had heard was very poorly written.
And I too have noticed A LOT of self-pubbed erotica &
Romance (no offense to those in that genre, just truth). Great examples that trad-pub doesn't always mean quality but we just believe this to be so because there's a gateway!
You're right too that reviews are only half the story.
There are a lot of different things that appeal to me or draw me to read a book, it also depends on whether I'm online or in a real book store. Sometimes I read about the author or book in a newsletter, a blog, or find their post here and then I go check it out. And maybe I check them out because they say they don't know if it's interesting or they need reviews, then I'll go see if I'm interested. If it's a poetry book - my published genre - I'll look into it, not to scratch someone else's back but to support the poetry community IF their writing appeals to me,even then I'm not guaranteed to like it. It might be a cover that appeals to me in the store and draws me in, then I read
the back, maybe I do this online too. Maybe it's the title of the book. But absolutely like everyone keeps echoing: if I read a sample and there's lots of grammatical errors or the writing is hard to follow I will not go any further and just keep looking through the thousands of other options. I will sometimes look at reviews like someone else said if I'm on the fence
especially. If there are all 5s under a book I'll sample it and see, sometimes it fits. If there are all 1s I'll sample, sometimes it doesn't fit. And then other times there will be a lot of good reviews but the bad ones consistently have the same complaint; this scenario will drive me away, if I care about what they're complaining about of course!
eLPy
author of "That Which Lives Within"
www.littlefacepublications.com
Mark wrote: "Richard wrote: "Personally, as a reader I care less about who published the book than about whether it's well-written, and in a genre I read. (For example, most writers couldn't pay me enough to re..."Mark: Wow, still don't really know what to say about Nudist horror, but hey to each his own right? But I am with you about reading in your genre. I'm a SP-poet but I won't read any and all poetry. As you may know poetry can be very subjective and some people like to follow specific forms/styles of poetry and refuse to read otherwise, but there's no fault in that, to an extent I do this, usually following a sample reading. I won't read or review a book that after reading the sample I know it's not my kind of poetry, just as I won't read a romance novel. I'm not into that genre. No offense.
Jennifer wrote: "Hello and thanks for letting me join the group. My first book was published with Journeymakers Publishing but my published used create space and I didn't know she was going to do that. My second ..."
Jennifer: That's too bad she didn't tell you she was Publishing it through CreateSpace, at least in my opinion but cool you have the rights back. Sounds like you've had a bit of a chance to build up experience. While you say events are part of your job it raises the interest fact that they should also be part of the writers job!!
Karen wrote: "I don't get much time to be on GR so my comment is a bit slow.
Daniel wrote that, if your work is really noteworthy, people will find it. How?
I've noticed there are hundreds of authors here on GR...."
Yeah that's tricky Karen. I think Daniel hasA point but it's not that simple. You do have to really get
Out there and make yourself visible and once people are reading then quality work will speak for itself. Not every reader is the talkative type, or have a large network of reading friends. That's all part of being all over the place, physically and on the internet, so you do give many different kinds of readers a chance to find you. I've sent some giveaway copies to people who aren't big on poetry but they found my poetry book interesting nonetheless!
eLPy
Justin wrote: "To comment on what eLPy stated in the beginning a good quality self-published book begins and ends with having great editing and a well done cover. I go from person to person when it comes to edito..."Thanks for sharing your experiences with these different sites. This can be useful for sure. I learned about Shelfari because a giveaway winner told me they were going to post their review there (I joined and of course thanked them). On the first page of this discussion Rita mentioned World Literary café, Savvy Authors & BookTalk, again I've since joined these sites. As I'm new to these pages I'm not going to give them a "diagnosis" just yet but while Shelfari is interesting, I like their shelf feature and someone told me in a thread about there being an app that enables you to look up your shelf wherever you are, which isn't all that different from Goodreads and even LibraryThing I think I do aesthetically like Shelfari but Goodreads is by far the most actively used. LibraryThing is pretty quiet, REALLY quiet but another avenue nonetheless.
I think I've mentioned Book Crossing and Book Mooch in earlier post. While I haven't participated in either they are really interesting concepts and I think book crossing has the potential to be a lot of fun for authors. I'm going to do a wild release of a couple of copies this week. Basically you register your book, any book you own, with the site they give you a BCID number which you either print on label paper or copy into your book. Then you plan to pass it on to someone (controlled release) or you leave it somewhere or with some random stranger (wild release) and in theory the person who picks it up then registers that they "caught" the book on Book Crossing and can enter details into the journal the original person created. Could be fun right? It's international too! I won't describe BookMooch here cause I'm already long-winded…:-) I'll keep you guys posted on how this goes. I did meet a romance author on BookTalk who released her book into the wild but no one ever registered it. We've been communicating nonetheless however and she may end up doing a piece about her experiences self-publishing on my website in the future, MAYBE, she's thinking about it. (And all because I noticed her "Wild Release" post because I know about Book Crossing!)
LibraryThing also provides the option for you to create a giveaway although I don't find their overall platform for this as accessible as GR. Another thing, on Shelfari you can join a group and add your book to the group's shelf but with it being so quiet over there I wonder how much it matters. Another thing I'm wondering is how Amazon will eventually meld (or not) Shelfari with GR as they seem to be much the same.
Wattpad I've heard of but I'll admit I had forgotten. I've also heard of Writer's Café on Kindleboards from a GR member thread. I haven't used it yet, tried to register but something went wrong.
Question: Facebook Fanpage? Does this refer to you having created a FB specifically for you as an author? This is what I would like to do as I don't want to mix my personal page with that of my author page, not professional at least in my opinion, and yes, no offense to those who do that. Of course however I have shared with friends and family that I've published my book.
Twitter isn't really in my bag of tricks either however as you said I think GR has been the most beneficial, at least so far and I think this is due in large part to it being so active and alive with users. LT has a lot of rules about I think in terms of what authors can do, which is good and bad. It's not as easy there to follow your discussions either, if people are discussing at all.
I do like meeting new authors and bloggers that I like and then subscribe to follow them. Reading and commenting on articles gains exposure to me, by putting my info in my signature, but it also helps them to have readers interacting with them and what they've written. In this respect I've signed up for multiple newsletters related to reading, writing and publishing, such as ShelfAwareness, which provides me with useful information and sometimes new authors to look into.
I will post more as I remember them or find them!
Hey All, may I suggest/request that if you are a writer put your latest book title and genre in your signature and if you have a website that as well? Same to readers, note that you are a reader and if you have a site put it down?
I think it will be nice to see right up front the various genres we've got going here.
Thanks everybody for reading and continuing to post, sharing and discussing as we go!
Sincerely,
eLPy
"That Which Lives Within", poetry
www.littlefacepublications.com
Wattpad looks most interesting if you write YA/NA books. The members at Wattpad seem younger than GR/LT. Librarything seems more geared towards older readers. There's always overlap, though.I'm on Wattpad, but my suspense fiction is geared towards an older audience. One of my peers from KB has built up a nice following for his YA work.
Martyn wrote: "Wattpad looks most interesting if you write YA/NA books. The members at Wattpad seem younger than GR/LT. Librarything seems more geared towards older readers. There's always overlap, though."I agree on Wattpad. I'm there too, and have so far been publishing one story (which I'll remove if I get to SP it anyway), but its main audience is clearly more interested in YA/NA stories. There are older people there, though, who can appreciate different kinds of novels; they're just not as easy to find. I don't know if this will allow me to build a "following" for the day I go and self-publish, but at least I found a few people who're interested, which, considering my crappy marketing skills, isn't so bad in itself.
Hey all,Would any of you consider buying and reading a novel by an Armenian science fiction writer? Would you or would you not pay attention to the country of the person's origin when choosing your next book?
@Vardan,I'm not a native speaker myself. I only care about the quality. If you get comments on writing in English when you're not a native speaker, just direct them to Wikipedia's page on Joseph Conrad:
Joseph Conrad (born Józef Teodor Konrad Korzeniowski;[1]:11–12 Berdichev, Imperial Russia, 3 December 1857 – 3 August 1924, Bishopsbourne, Kent, England) was a Polish author who wrote in English after settling in England. He was granted British nationality in 1886, but always considered himself a Pole.[note 1] Conrad is regarded as one of the greatest novelists in English,[2] though he did not speak the language fluently until he was in his twenties (and always with a marked accent). He wrote stories and novels, often with a nautical setting, that depict trials of the human spirit in the midst of an indifferent universe. He was a master prose stylist who brought a distinctly non-English[note 2] tragic sensibility into English literature.[3]
Martyn wrote: "@Vardan,I'm not a native speaker myself. I only care about the quality. If you get comments on writing in English when you're not a native speaker, just direct them to Wikipedia's page on Joseph ..."
A truly inspiring response, Martin! Thank you! While I did do my high school in the US, English is not my first language. For some obscure reason, however, all the stories in my head are in English :)
Vardan wrote: "Hey all,Would any of you consider buying and reading a novel by an Armenian science fiction writer? Would you or would you not pay attention to the country of the person's origin when choosing yo..."
I couldn't care less. As far as I'm concerned, as long as the author writes a good story in a language I'm fluent in (English or French), and wields it decently, his/her nationality doesn't factor in the equation.
Yzabel wrote: "Vardan wrote: "Hey all,Would any of you consider buying and reading a novel by an Armenian science fiction writer? Would you or would you not pay attention to the country of the person's origin w..."
Thanks for the reply, Yzabel! When I was just getting started, lots of people around me advised me to take a pen name that would be, well, less Armenian. I did not listen to them as I feel that self-publishing is an important opportunity for people like me to share the stories they always wanted to tell with a wide audience. You see, the Aremnian literarure, which has had its share of greats is mostly focused on the tough historic journey of my people who sustained thousands of years of empires and wars and divisions to keep on going in the modern world. These stories are quite fascinating reads but the genre limitations mean that there are no science fiction writers in Armenia and I kind of dared to be the first one, also striving to provide a, hopefully positive, example for other aspiring authors from my country to use the unprecedented opportunity and break out of the mold.
Judging by the previous two comments I was right.
You can do whatever you like. I think pen names are a way to protect yourself from some of the flaming comments that can come from people. I think science fiction does not belong to a single nationality or group. We all dream of what the EARTH people can do not what the Americans or French or Armenians can do. Anyway good luck with your book and writing.Back to marketing, studies have shown that WOM (word of mouth) marketing is one of the best forms. You gotta get out in the forums, Facebook,twitter,etc so people can see your name. As has been mentioned before. Make sure what you are putting out, be it blog,FB post, tweet or novel, make sure it is thought out and well written. People see those as extensions of your writing.
J.T. wrote: "You can do whatever you like. I think pen names are a way to protect yourself from some of the flaming comments that can come from people. I think science fiction does not belong to a single nation..."Good point J.T. but for some reason the science fiction genre is still dominated by American and, to some extent, British authors.
Vardan wrote: "When I was just getting started, lots of people around me advised me to take a pen name that would be, well, less Armenian. "Considering the amount of US people (among others) whose names are NOT Anglo-Saxon in origin, I find that piece of advice particularly... amusing. I really don't see what the problem is. If we all had to be called Smith or Johnson to be able to make a name out there, the world would sure be a dull place.
Yzabel wrote: "Vardan wrote: "When I was just getting started, lots of people around me advised me to take a pen name that would be, well, less Armenian. "Considering the amount of US people (among others) whos..."
The stated problem was that a) it was not Anglo-Saxon and b) too long and hard to pronounce. There was also a c) doesn't sound like a name of science fiction writer :)
Vardan wrote: "The stated problem was that a) it was not Anglo-Saxon and b) too long and hard to pronounce. There was also a c) doesn't sound like a name of science fiction writer :) "1) I stand by my previous comment.
2) Too long? Who told you that? People with less than 3 neurons to connect? (Unless the name in your profile is a shortened version. Otherwise it sounds just fine to me.)
3) Let's see... Because "Asimov" sounds like an Anglo-Saxon-sounding name?
People are idiots.
Yzabel wrote: "Vardan wrote: "The stated problem was that a) it was not Anglo-Saxon and b) too long and hard to pronounce. There was also a c) doesn't sound like a name of science fiction writer :) "1) I stand ..."
People have opinions and are usually very keen to share their advices on a widest array of subjects.
Concerning the length of the name, when I was studying in a US high school, both the teachers and students struggled with the name Vardan for several months before shortening it to the more pronouncable Ard which was the only way I was addressed throughout the years of my studies.
ePLy- You know after reading your start to this and everyone elses comment I forgot to mention Shelfari myself? Ha!Yes I too have found Shelfari to be useful for all the content you can add about your book. I like that you can add a short and long synopsis, characters, themes, contributors, words and much more. Perhaps its actually for readers and reviews but what better what for an author to tell as much about their book without giving too much away? Also the author knows more about the details they ask for on there better than anyone else. So yes, Shelfari is a very good way to provide additional information on ones book you wouldn't normally find anywhere else all in one place.
Yes, FacebookFanpage meaning an author page or bookpage seperate from ones own personal page. I've heard some people use their personal page and believe me I am sure it gets confusing and hectic as its not good to combine them and better to seperate the two. Makes it easier for people to like your page and follow you without friending and just more organized overall.
I tried WorldLitCafe once and didn't like it. Seemed like too much going on and I didn't even know where to begin.
I'll look into Book Mooch and others you mentioned though, they may prove useful who knows.
Justin Bienvenue
'A Bloody Bloody Mess In The Wild Wild West'
http://jbienvenue.webs.com/
At this point, I'm not calling those "opinions" anymore. All right, perhaps "US-centrism" rather than idiocy. Still, it's just... I don't know... the mind boggles.How on Earth would "Vardan" be difficult to pronounce, by the way? If you were called something like "Hǫðbrodd", I could understand... but Vardan? o_O
Interesting topic. Since I am a new SPA and my book, Perfect Pawn, just came out in October, I think I fit into this group.I struggle with the whole self promotion aspect and try to balance the "hey look I have a book for sale" and giving the readers of my website and FB page some other content. The potential reader also has the option of reading the first 2 1/2 chapters of the book free on Amazon.
I also have been active with reaching out to papers, indie book stores, bloggers, and book clubs I hear about. As far as the papers go it has been interesting to me that they are split about 50/50. Some are happy to run an article and others balk the minute they hear you are a SPA.
Vardan wrote: "Hey all,Yzabel wrote: "Martyn wrote: "Wattpad looks most interesting if you write YA/NA books. The members at Wattpad seem younger than GR/LT. Librarything seems more geared towards older readers. There's always overlap,..."
I appreciate Martyn, Justin and your explanation that Wattpad is a bit more genre and age specific. That might not be the right place for me and my writing, so that helps to know, thanks!
Would any of you consider buying and reading a novel by an Armenian science fiction writer? Would you or would you not pay attention to the country of the person's origin when choosing yo..."
Vardan I don't base my reading choices on the author's country of origin, it's moreso a matter of subject matter and what I'm into reading at that time. I think when roots do apply more for readers, if I may speak for more than just myself, is with non-fiction books that relate to Armenian culture and what-not, or even fiction books that have to do with this. If an Armenian writes a novel about Armenians or with Armenians as characters people may be more inclined to believe from the jump that the story will be more authentic in character, culture and plot as it relates to the culture. However that's not to say that a Brazilian writer couldn't write a great story about Armenians!
In regards to your other posts, that's unfortunate that people dissuaded you even from using your name. I second others in saying Vardan really isn't bad in terms of spelling and pronunciation! It makes me curious if you lived in a small town here in the states; some people can't handle what's different. My mother has a foreign exchange student staying with her from Kyrgyzstan and his first name is VERY long. While I don't know if he or someone else here shortened it but he doesn't seem to mind going by an abbreviated version, much like Nathaniel might go by Nate or Elizabeth by Beth. In fact in terms of writing I think the uniqueness of your name would make it easier to remember you!
Pen names serve a lot of purposes, including JT's mention of protecting yourself from backlash. Some people use pen names for anonymity also to avoice publicity period or to write about something that they would prefer people not to know they wrote, say some tell-all book. Other times pen names are used by people who don't want to mix up the different genres they write in; you might use Vardan for your Sci-fi (great sci-fi name I agree) and then use Dan for some freakish horror novel. Consider too that JK Rowling wrote her second adult novel under a male's pen name and I believe this to be because her first adult novel was not received well and naturally she may have wanted to escape the reputation she had built for Harry Potter and hoped for people to read the book without JK ROWLING in the back of their mind. I could see if your name was super long and complicated shortening it like my above example so it would be easier for people to look you up, but certainly not making it sound more anglo-saxon, that's very close-minded, IMO. I think I will add too that we should be proud of who we are so to those people who thought you shouldn't be so Armenian I ask the question: what makes you think it would be better for him to be so anglo-saxon? Now a days people in America are naming their children all kinds of crazy things they've made up! I kid you not I heard a story, true story I promise, that a couple had just given birth to their second child and allowed the first kid to name the second. Guess what he named it? Sponge Bob. Yup, true story.
I personally use a pen name because I like the creative aspect of it and I like it that much more using it as a poet. While my real name is not a mystery or hidden for that matter, as an author I have this presence all its own in so many words. With it being more creative than just using my name I like to believe it makes me stand out a bit more too. And maybe it's easy to remember, maybe (?). :-) I do like the idea of possibly using my real name instead in the future when I publish in a different genre, perhaps that would be best under something non-fiction, not that I have a special name!
Justin wrote: "ePLy- You know after reading your start to this and everyone elses comment I forgot to mention Shelfari myself? Ha!
Yes I too have found Shelfari to be useful for all the content you can add about ..."
First off, fyi I tried to visit your website as you have it listed in your signature but I was told it doesn't exist? I copied and pasted it from your comment. Anyways, that is a cool feature of Shelfari. I would think that it's also for readers in that people can interact with their reading and with other readers by talking about the characters on a different level.
There definitely is a lot going on on World Literary Cafe, well I mean there's a lot of different menu options to check out but so far I don't know that it is so interactive as GR and even Shelfari. And I think that's the beauty of the internet, we have options. That may just be a good site to promote on for some people, or learn, whatever works best for you.
Thanks for clarifying the point about FB fanpage, I thought that's what you meant but wanted to be sure. Yeah I would think it would get too messy having your personal page and your basically work page be the same.
Thanks!
eLPy
author of "That Which Lives Within"
www.littlefacepublications.com
Hey everybody,In case you didn't make it to the end of one of my previous posts - understandable ;-) - I was asking if you could include in your signature the name of your book, if you're an author, and the genre(s) it is. Also if you have a website could you list that as well? Thank you. Like I said before I think it would be interesting to know a little more about each other in that respect and to see where the other person is coming from. For example when I talk about my experiences I try to make a point to mention poetry as my published genre because that is relevant in terms of what might work best for me. Poetry isn't a very popular genre so I know I have to put in extra work to gain visibility. So as we go along talking about what works and what doesn't, without knowing it it could have something to do with our genres. For example, what if everyone who said FB works great for them is a sci-fi writer and all the mystery novelists had no luck but twitter rocked. And if you're a reader please mention that too, as well if you have a website and perhaps even share your favorite genre.
Now I know some of you may say, "Well it's all there in my profile!", but I'm not asking/suggesting anything detailed, complex, or long for that matter. Instead of saying if you want to know more about me go to my profile, you give simple facts about you up front and very accessible without leaving the page and the discussion. Plus I think this allows us to see the people in this discussion as a whole, whereas you might not go to anyone's profile or maybe just a few. And that makes perfect sense when you want to know more about a person.
Or not, your choice, just an idea that might make things even more interesting. :-P
eLPy
author of "That Which Lives Within", poetry
www.littlefacepublications.com
Andrew wrote: "Interesting topic. Since I am a new SPA and my book, Perfect Pawn, just came out in October, I think I fit into this group.I struggle with the whole self promotion aspect and try to balance the "..."
Absolutely it can be a struggle balancing self-promotion and in part I think because you don't know just how much offends who. I often wonder where the line crosses from necessary and expectant, respectful self-promoting and spamming people. Perhaps the key word here is respectful or maybe I should say tactful! Some people are turned off when they see an author only posting in threads about self-promotion and don't see them actively engaging with people. Okay, understandable. But what about mentioning your book whenever it's applicable, and I do mean using your being a published author to back up your experiences and comments. More than once I've read a comment where someone complains they got a bad review or a bad remark about their blurb then the next person to comment comes in saying, "Yeah, your blurb makes no sense" or "your book is full of errors!" Sometimes talking about your book for the very sake of sharing your experience is sharing first and promoting second, it is after all a form of word of mouth. Again I'll say I mention I've published poetry because this is unlike novels, just as someone else might need to clarify that they wrote a nonfiction book about cats; it matters a lot in these conversations. Since I have at least a bit of an understanding of what it means to publish poetry vs. a novel I always have this in the back of my mind when hearing suggestions and getting advice from people. For instance, there aren't as many book clubs that read poetry, it's more like poetry groups that read poetry. Or like Andrew wrote about contacting newspapers, while it's always worth a shot I wouldn't walk into such a proposal expecting a newspaper in this era to publish poetry. I've approached several bookstores in my area and while one apparently lost the book, the others said that poetry just isn't that big of a seller so carrying it on their shelf wasn't a good decision for them given the already limited space.
So, I'll pose some more questions here to everyone: when does self-promotion cross into the Great Land of Annoyance to you? Right away? When people add their info to their signature? ;-) Or is it when people post a "Do you want to buy my book "LMNOP"?" in threads and discussions that in no way fit such promotion?
My first answer to this will be short, then I'll pass the mic: The latter is how I feel. I don't like when people post such a comment that has nothing whatsoever to do with the thread or what anyone else as said, it just doesn't fit at all. I've never had anyone send me an unsolicited copy of their book but I would also be offended by this, please ask me first. I'm not sure I would get upset if people were to contact me first and ask if they thought their work is up my alley.
eLPy
D.L. wrote: "Well done D.L. in selling more paperbacks! I think it's fair to say that more people are reading electronically, it's more convenient and cheaper, so for you to have sold physical copies is great...."
And lastly for my replies here today...
I think the whole family and friends thing can get sticky. Of course we would be silly not to tell these people. They are a support group potentially and more than likely to tell other people about your book. Now this doesn't mean that I think all of these people should leave reviews. They are a group that I would like to say okay don't write anything that's not genuine. PERIOD. Who can blame your aunt for not wanting to tell you that she thought your book was horrendously boring? Or your running buddy for thinking your book is more poorly written than her 8 year old's book reports? So on the one hand it almost even becomes awkward once you know they have it and don't say anything to you when next you meet or speak!! Lol, but I'm not implying they have to say anything, I think you get what I mean.
I was very pleased today hearing from one of my grandpas that he read my book (read my mom's copy she put in his hands and trust me he's not the type of guy you'd think would read poetry) and he said he really liked it. My mom couldn't believe he was still reading it! LOL! He now wants to get more from me to pass on to some of his surviving relatives. In fact, he went on to tell me how my great-great-grandmother had been a writer. I knew about my grandmother and a little about my great-grandmother writing some poetry but not my great-great-gma. It wound up being a nice bonding point for us both I would say, something that I couldn't share with my grandma before she died because I didn't know my love for writing then. Anywho, that's another conversation (I did share some of her poetry on my blog a while back and asked people on GR about relatives they may have/had that write...maybe I'll wake that thread back up!). But I would like to say overall to my family, "Look please don't go and post reviews that I'm the best of the best just cause I'm me!" And just like you said D.L., "BUT please do share with people you know, I mean spread the word, don't give everybody your copy!" That's kind of funny D.L.
That sounds like a great plan to hold it in a cafe or such a place where you help them and they help you therefore saving yourself on costs. I wonder if such business owners would be willing to give vouchers to your attendees for special discounts on their products. Good idea though too for the visibility; a "party" in the back of the place would get people wondering and they may just wander on over!
Thanks for sharing!
Sincerely,
eLPy
I have never experienced being sent a book as the author's first approach to me, though I have gotten unsolicited books from friends and relatives who are certain I will like them. (Unfortunately, they are usually incorrect.) I think that an author would recognize that sending the book doesn't mean that the recipient will read it, and that they should first ascertain whether the reader wants to read such a book or whether the reader has time to read and review within a time frame that the author regards as reasonable. Many reviewers on Goodreads have a queue of books that they have promised to read. I am one of them. I will always tell authors when they can expect that I will get to their book before they send it to me. Re active promoting on groups--Groups have policies about promotion. You need to take a look around before you post in a group. Some groups will remove you from the group if you even post with information about your book in the colophon. But these same groups do set aside areas on their group for promotion. Please use these areas. If there is no such area on the group, look for a thread that discusses the group's policy on promotion. There are also groups that don't mind promotion and don't care where you post, but there are relatively few of them.
I'm not replying to anyone in particular, but to the thread topic in general. Yesterday, I experienced one of the main reasons some people won't read SPAs: a blurb that is poorly written.Someone has posted on numerous threads here over the past couple days, advertising a book release. This person has spelled the title of her own book three different ways (only one of them correctly, of course) in the three posts I've seen. I went to the book's page and found a horribly written book description that had almost forty errors in it. FORTY!
I debated about contacting the author and finally got my nerve up to send a private message. However, the link on her page doesn't open up a p.m. box. I went to her blog and found no way to contact her privately. I am torn between wanting to allow her to take her lumps, so to speak, and wanting to warn her that if her blurb is filled with errors, perhaps her book isn't ready, either. My conflict lies in the fact that I'm an editor, so anything I tell her will be seen as trying to coerce her into hiring me. I have enough work that I don't need to troll the GR boards to trick people.
Have any of you run into a situation like this, where you want to stop someone from starting off poorly but don't want to intrude where you may not be welcome?
Shomeret wrote: "I have never experienced being sent a book as the author's first approach to me, though I have gotten unsolicited books from friends and relatives who are certain I will like them. (Unfortunately, ..."I hear both points that you're making. I have read rules here and elsewhere that specify don't leave a press release of sorts just anywhere, instead go to...fill in the blank. It's possible that at times I have not seen posted rules that say don't even put your info in your signature, I will confess to that. While I can understand this reasoning sometimes it can feel a bit excessive. But I must say as well that it is our duty as authors to be respectful, mindful, as well as strategice about how we do things in terms of promoting ourselves. There are so many avenues for marketing that we don't need to be selling our book everywhere we go. There's a time and a place for these things and that makes all the sense in the world. Also, I gotcha on both ends, reader and writer. As anxious as we may be for feedback as writers we again have to be mindful. Reading our book is not the only thing that reader has to do unless you paid them then that's a different story (heck, a different story all together). I have tons of books, in print and ebook, that I wish I could get to faster. I inherited a lot of books from my grandmother and as old as some of them are I still poke around and say oh, I'd like to read that some day. Never mind all the dishes and laundry I have to do, and walk my dog, and work and blah blah. Yet another example for why writers really need to have patience ready in hand!
Lastly, I meant to emphasize how important I think it is that authors, especially SPAs at least try to be creative with our marketing, not just spamming and copying and pasting every thread, and forum and site we touch because I wonder how many of those self-promotional threads get read by readers, our audience? How many of them are the equivalent of a publishers slush pile? How many commercials go in one ear and out the other? How many ads become fuel for the fire? Why would our constant repeat promoting be different?
Thanks!
eLPy
I can feel the frustration of self-publishing, mainly because I seem to be getting some recognition and visibility in places but still not generating hardly any sales. I am really big on posting samples from my books... I post poems on my website, on Tumblr, and occasionally some fragments and short passages on my Facebook author page. I get a fair amount of praise on these sites. I've had strangers rave about my work, tell me I'm "too good" to maintain an account there (Tumblr), and a select few even dared to say they consider me their personal favorite. But does this generate directly into sales (for me)? Very rarely. The ironic thing is that I get substantial feedback, praise, likes and follows, but while people love to read my work online it seems like a hard sell to get them to actually go out and buy the book. I am extremely grateful for the compliments and attention, and I don't want to sound greedy or ungrateful, but sometimes I have to wonder why. What makes a person not just like your work and follow you online, but actually want to spend their money on a printed version of your work and have it in their hands? It's a bit of a conundrum.
I have one very good, faithful repeat customer who buys every book I release and even buys some to gift to her relatives and friends. I am extremely grateful for her. The only other person that really looks deeply into my stuff and readily boasts about me to others is a book review blogger who received a free review copy of the book. A great and wonderful thing, no doubt, but not a sale.
I'm certainly not giving up hope, however, and I will continue to post and share samples of my work no matter what. I love Amazon's Search Inside feature and I will never opt out of it... I also have a BookBuzzr preview set up for two of my books. But seeing as how free samples have gotten me attention but not sales, I am still open to ideas. I am interested in KDP Select's Kindle Countdown Deals program... anybody had any luck with that?
Lynda wrote: "I'm not replying to anyone in particular, but to the thread topic in general. Yesterday, I experienced one of the main reasons some people won't read SPAs: a blurb that is poorly written.Someone ..."
I know I said I was done posting for the night but I'll try and be so after this! And hello Lynda, nice to see you around here.
Hm, that sounds like a bit of a quandry. I would ask, does this person say anything in their posts about wanting feedback, or hey what do you guys think? I'm going to assume no or else you probably wouldn't be asking this? But if that is the case than for lack of a gentler way to put it, they're fair game.
That said Lynda I have read your posts before and you appear to be a kind, honest, and compassionate person so there's no doubt in my mind that you would approach them in the same manner. So coming from that angle perhaps they would be more inclined to listen to you over someone else who is bound to find them out sooner or later. However I do think this is tricky because it's really not your job or your responsibility rather you're trying to be kind and do them a favor. Knowing that I think it would be alright for you to tap them on the shoulder and say, "Excuse me, your tag is sticking out."
I can't think of an instance right now that I've dealt with this exact thing but I will tell people in my review of their work what I personally don't think worked in their favor. And in your case you're professionally capable of pointing out their mistakes. Obviously it's one thing to say hey I'm an editor here's my contact and here's my rates, you need my help; while it's another to extend your credentials ultimately proving you're capable of calling out such errors accurately, saying I'm an editor so I have a pretty keen eye for mistakes (it's my job) and with all due respect YOU NEED HELP! Speaking for myself, if I was this person I would be grateful if you could tell me my dress is tucked into my underwear. It's too bad they're not able to see that many mistakes (40 is a lot for a description) in which case my bet is with you that the book is probably even worse. You've provided an excellent example here for this discussion. It seems that once people consider themselves capable of writing a story they pay little attention to their actual writing skills . I think it would benefit all people self-published, self-publishing and considering doing this to recognize that you can't just like to write if this is the route you want to take. You have to approach this professionally and seriously. Remember back to high school English, wouldn't your teacher be upset if you turned in your final draft looking as if its never been edited, ever, as in your final draft is the same as your first draft? Editors are kind of like peer review groups, right? She sounds like she needs some peer reviewing!
Okay, good luck Lynda, let us know how it goes if you say anything or if you don't! Good night all!
Sincerely,
eLPy
eLPy wrote: "I would ask, does this person say anything in their posts about wanting feedback, or hey what do you guys think? I'm going to assume no or else you probably wouldn't be asking this? But if that is the case than for lack of a gentler way to put it, they're fair game."Well, in the person's posts, she asked people to download it an provide an honest review. So...it was free and I downloaded it. I couldn't make it past the fourth page, and that was only because I was determined to read more than one chapter. The first chapter was only 2-3 pages and it had over twenty errors that were common punctuation/grammar rules—one doesn't need to be an editor to notice them.
I did leave a review (one star only) and urged her to pull the book, hire an editor (not me) and take the time to get it right. I really hope she does. I have no idea whether the story was good or not, but what is the purpose of creating a story no one can read?
eLPy wrote: "Now I know some of you may say, "Well it's all there in my profile!", but I'm not asking/suggesting anything detailed, complex, or long for that matter. Instead of saying if you want to know more about me go to my profile, you give simple facts about you up front and very accessible without leaving the page and the discussion. Plus I think this allows us to see the people in this discussion as a whole, whereas you might not go to anyone's profile or maybe just a few. And that makes perfect sense when you want to know more about a person."Although I understand what you're getting at, I don't think it's a good idea to post information about your book/genre in a post not related to that book/genre.
GR has seen its fair share of spamming SPAs, so readers tend to be ultra-sensitive--I was 'accused' of advertising my book because I use the cover of my first novel as my avatar--so I only mention my book and genre when the situation asks for it. So, yes, if you want to know more about me, click my avatar. Don't want to leave the conversation? Right-click my avatar and 'open in new tab/window'.
Even I, as an author, sometimes get annoyed by posts that have the name of a book at the end when it has nothing to do with the post.
Lynda wrote: "I debated about contacting the author and finally got my nerve up to send a private message. However, the link on her page doesn't open up a p.m. box. I went to her blog and found no way to contact her privately. I am torn between wanting to allow her to take her lumps, so to speak, and wanting to warn her that if her blurb is filled with errors, perhaps her book isn't ready, either. My conflict lies in the fact that I'm an editor, so anything I tell her will be seen as trying to coerce her into hiring me. I have enough work that I don't need to troll the GR boards to trick people."
I commend you for trying to warn someone they're about to make a grave mistake, but as a self-published author, I think it's important that you can be contacted. My email is at the top of my blog for that very purpose, so that my readers may contact me.
This may seem like common sense, but it's true what they say about 'common sense not being that common'.
Brandon wrote: "I can feel the frustration of self-publishing, mainly because I seem to be getting some recognition and visibility in places but still not generating hardly any sales. I am really big on posting samples from my books... I post poems on my website, on Tumblr, and occasionally some fragments and short passages on my Facebook author page."Poetry doesn't sell well, Brandon, not like (genre) fiction. You're not the first poet to receive accolades but destined to die a beggar.
All it comes down to is, 'do you enjoy yourself?'. Sales aren't everything.
In another thread I was accused of not being a 'business person' because my sardonic side got the upper hand in a discussion. I replied that I'd rather give my books away than become the 'business person' this poster wanted me to be. If you check my books, you'll find that my low ratings are due to some people leaving 1-star ratings (without reading my books) because they object to my tone or my opinions in my posts. Pathetic, really, but that's what you get for speaking your mind.
I'm working on the fourth novel in my series, and my previous three books receive favorable reviews, but so far the series has not 'taken off' in the commercial sense. I will keep writing my books, though. And I will keep publishing them as long as I read reviews that people are waiting for the next book.
Just wanted to thank everyone for the overwhelmingly supportive posts... they actually made me much more confident about my writing and I will refer anyone to this thread when they say something derogative about Goodreads. Cheers to all!
Yzabel wrote: "How on Earth would "Vardan" be difficult to pronounce, by the way? If you were called something like "Hǫðbrodd", I could understand... but Vardan? o_O "I guess, in a way, it's hard to criticise people for wanting to be able to pronounce the name of the author who wrote a book they like (in their own first language), but I do think some Anglo-Saxons can sometimes have a very 'Anglo-Saxon' outlook on learning to pronounce 'foreign' names! Unless I'm missing something (possible - I'm not acquainted with the language concerned at all), 'Verdan' doesn't seem to be the most difficult, though.
I suspect things are getting a little better in some spheres at least, when it comes to whether people will read something by someone with a non-Anglo-Saxon name, as some people recognise that a different background can itself bring something different to 'art'. I'm thinking of a specifically Armenian example, in fact, with the band System of a Down (and Serj Tankian in his solo work and poetry), who certainly brought an unusual edge to what they were doing. there are lots of other musical examples. How it works with books I don't know, but it certainly wouldn't put me off - quite the opposite, in fact - as long as the English writing seemed to be fluent enough, I'd be quite interested to see if a writer was able to bring something new to the party from a different background. Having said that, I'm not an Anglo-Saxon myself (despite being a native English speaker), so perhaps I have a slightly different outlook on it from them!
I use a pen name mainly because I like to have that bit of separation between the 'personal' and 'professional', so to speak. Not that I'm a 'different person' or a 'character' in 'author mode', but just that it reminds me that I should be maintaining a level of professionalism in what I do because of the impression people might take from it. Not that I generally have an 'unprofessional' attitude towards people anyway, but as an author I wouldn't generally want to get involved in the kind of in depth discussions of politics and the like that I would do as 'myself' - it's not relevant to what I write, and some people can take such things very personally.
There is also, I guess, an element of knowing from experience that my own first name is pretty much unfathomable at first sight to people outside of my own small country, and after a while you do get tired of explaining how it should be pronounced! I'm certainly not in any way ashamed of it, but I've explained it so many times that I don't feel the need to do it all over again on every website I join (and I wouldn't want to become 'commonly known' by a name that is a mispronunciation, either - that would be a little irritating, to say the least!)!
T. wrote: "Yzabel wrote: "How on Earth would "Vardan" be difficult to pronounce, by the way? If you were called something like "Hǫðbrodd", I could understand... but Vardan? o_O "I guess, in a way, it's hard ..."
Thanks T. and naturally an origin can never excuse anyone for their unadequate use of their writing language of choice. Concerning the pen name, I personally have nothing against using it as long as it is used for the reasons you and other fellow writers on this thread mentioned - not to camouflage one's country of origin :)
Vardan wrote: "...not to camouflage one's country of origin :) "Absolutely. I'm certainly no irrational patriot or narrow-minded supremacist of any kind (quite the opposite, as it happens, although I just said I wasn't going to talk 'politics' at all!), but I'm very proud and happy to belong to my little country, and would never, ever hide that! I don't think I could if I tried! Unfortunately, I didn't grow up knowing it's native language, but to quote a famous song 'Ry'n ni yma o hyd'!
T. wrote: "Vardan wrote: "...not to camouflage one's country of origin :) "Absolutely. I'm certainly no irrational patriot or narrow-minded supremacist of any kind (quite the opposite, as it happens, althoug..."
Well said! Even the last part that I failed to understand :)
I am a poet too, and I have to say that my very few sales (with the exception of one epub on Barnes and Noble) came from local people who had heard me read a poem on a special occasion. It is my experience that nobody will buy poetry from somebody with no established reputation, nobody will publish poetry from someone who had not been previously published and that sharing it for free produces a fan base who will visit your site to read for free but not buy.
T. wrote: "I guess, in a way, it's hard to criticise people for wanting to be able to pronounce the name of the author who wrote a book they like (in their own first language), but I do think some Anglo-Saxons can sometimes have a very 'Anglo-Saxon' outlook on learning to pronounce 'foreign' names! "Probably, but it still strikes me as rather weird and, yes, hypocritical: "I'm so proud of my own Anglo-Saxon roots that I want everyone's name to fit my perception of the world. Oh, you're not of Anglo-Saxon origin? Well, your roots don't matter." That's the kind of message I get from such reasoning—even though it may not have been the intent behind it—and I feel it's just terrible.
If someday, I were to resume my studies and publish a thesis under my real name, nobody would demand I change it because "it sounds too German" (which it does, indeed). All right, the world of academics is different from that of best-sellers, and marketing research is likely not the same as marketing the next Twilight or whatever. Still, I can't help but find that some people are really concerned with the dumbest things, instead of with what matters the most: the novel itself.
Yzabel wrote: "T. wrote: "I guess, in a way, it's hard to criticise people for wanting to be able to pronounce the name of the author who wrote a book they like (in their own first language), but I do think some ..."The issue is that lots of people will not even give the novel a try for the hypocritical reasons you mentioned. The thing is that on the surface a lot of things have moved in the right direction but the underlying rotten currents are still there - made even more apparent because they are sort of hidden under the general aura of all-acceptance.
Yzabel wrote: "Probably, but it still strikes me as rather weird and, yes, hypocritical: "I'm so proud of my own Anglo-Saxon roots that I want everyone's name to fit my perception of the world. Oh, you're not of Anglo-Saxon origin? Well, your roots don't matter.""Unfortunately it is a failing among some Anglo-Saxons. It's often not a concious thing (sadly, though, sometimes it is quite concious, which is even more sad), of course, but some among them do still tend to view 'johnny foreigner' as somehow not being 'quite right' or being 'properly civilised'. I could go into the history of some of the things that have been done in their name over the centuries on that kind of basis (with particular reference to my own country and its native language, of course), but now really isn't the time or place for that kind of thing.
I don't suppose they are unique in that in the world, mind you, but they are just the ones we English language speakers and writers have to deal with! Thankfully, I do think it is something that is reducing over time, but I definitely don't think it has disappeared from society altogether yet.
OK guys and gals, let's call a spade a spade. Instead of using "Anglo-Saxon origin" let's say "English-American" because that is what it actually boils down to. The place name "Aibhneduin" is Gaelic which is anglo-saxon origin but is pronounced wrong frequently because the "bh" consonant pair is pronounced with the "v" sound. This discussion is similar to an interview with Andre Norton. She changed her name from Andrea, I believe that is right pulling it from my dusty files in the back of my head, to Andre because in her time people did not think women could be novelists. She sold many books until the first person new she was a woman then it was too late. I will look and see if I can find that reference.
I use my initials as a pen name of sorts. I don't go by them outside of author/reader circles. Vardan, I think your name is a cool author's name. If people can't pronounce it I just don't understand. Yzabel, I think your name would be cool to see on a book cover. I like the look of it.
Be proud of who you are and your national origin. You may get a tag like "that Armenian SciFi writer." The exoticism of it may give you a leg up as much as an impediment.
Ok I have embarrassed myself enough.
J.T. Buckley Writer of By Right of Arms and Blood and Steel :A Love Story
www.jtbuckley.com
On the topic of folks in the US not giving authors with foreign-sounding names a chance, this may be true for genres outside of Science Fiction and Fantasy. But, it seems to me, that in the SF/F community there seems to be a greater willingness to accept authors and stories that come from different cultures. To help prove my point, here is a list of authors with "foreign-sounding" names culled from the last two years of Locus Magazine's Recommended Reading Lists:Paolo Bacigalupi, Ekaterina Sedia, Helen Oyeyemi, Nnedi Okorafor, Tochi Onyebuchi, Lavie Tidhar, Hannu Rajaniemi, Stina Leicht, Saladin Ahmed, Kiini Ibura Salaam, Yoon Ha Lee, Xia Jia, Tamsyn Muir, Priya Sharma, and Vandana Singh.
Gregor wrote: "On the topic of folks in the US not giving authors with foreign-sounding names a chance, this may be true for genres outside of Science Fiction and Fantasy. But, it seems to me, that in the SF/F co..."Agreed, I think the SciFi/Fantasy reader community is much more accepting of "foreign" sounding names. I think it is because you don't find many tentacled aliens or ogres names Bob or Sally though it would be a bit amusing.
Thanks for replying, Martyn. Yes, I am all too familiar with the prevalent idea that poetry just doesn't sell, in comparison to novels and genre fiction. I've come to terms with it, and I can understand why people thirst more for characters, plot twists and storylines they can follow for extended periods of time.Still, I always found it kind of odd that there are plenty of people who LIKE poetry and READ poetry, but for some reason they just don't go out and actively spend their money on it the way that fans of genre fiction spend money on that. Still, I agree that money is not the most important thing for a poet, and like I said I am ever grateful and satisfied with the accolades and modest fan base that I have.
Like you, I would rather give my books away and have the joy of positive feedback from readers than try to push myself out there like a harlot that is hungry for sales. I give books away frequently to estranged friends, people who come into contact with me online and express interest in my work, and of course book review bloggers. I get great joy out of it, so the money is only secondary. The point is to be read, not to get rich... right?
Luckily I have a decent day job to support me, and a couple of degrees which I hope will help me advance in due time if I climb the ladder right. Also, I am about to start breaking into the children's market very shortly.... I illustrate for children and I am working on a coloring book as we speak. I understand that is a much bigger market than poetry, I hear.
Lisa wrote: "I am a poet too, and I have to say that my very few sales (with the exception of one epub on Barnes and Noble) came from local people who had heard me read a poem on a special occasion. It is my ex..."Lisa, it's nice to know that others have had a similar experience. I guess poetry is just like that.... it seems many lovers of poetry like to read it and check it out online, but rarely make the move to complete a purchase. At least it's not just me that has the same problem getting sales to go along with the online readership. But don't get me wrong, I am grateful for what small "fan base" I have, because getting read and shared is more important than fame and fortune, by far.
I've always been told that poetry doesn't sell... it's just not a big market these days... and I constantly see evidence of that, sadly enough.
I was hoping that since I write a great deal more prose-poetry than simplistic structured-verse poems, that maybe those who gravitate more towards "meaty" blocks of writing would find enough to satisfy themselves and "meet me halfway." Then again, it seems there is very little poetic prose out there right now.. at least to my knowledge. There are poems, there are stories and vignettes, but not as much in between. The only other writer (that I know of) who frequently writes (wrote) poetic prose is Clark Ashton Smith. See below...
Gregor wrote: "On the topic of folks in the US not giving authors with foreign-sounding names a chance, this may be true for genres outside of Science Fiction and Fantasy. But, it seems to me, that in the SF/F co..."Haha. All things considered... Yes, fantasy and sci-fi readers not accepting different-sounding and looing names would be just weird. It'd not like those genres aren't chock-full of them, so it makes sens.
In a maybe not so weird spirit of contradiction, I tend to remember "foreign" names better, in fact: they're intriguing, they force me to pay attention, and in turn, they get fixed into my brain more easily. "Vardan Partamyan" will stick with me much longer than "Peggy Johnson" or "John Smith". (But then, I'm also the kind of person who'll buy a totally unknown vegetable just because "hey, it's got a funny name", so who knows, maybe I'm just the oddball?)
Yzabel wrote: "Gregor wrote: "On the topic of folks in the US not giving authors with foreign-sounding names a chance, this may be true for genres outside of Science Fiction and Fantasy. But, it seems to me, that..."imagine what a vegetable with a name Vardan Partamyan would look like :)
Goodreads Authors/Readers
Books mentioned in this topic
The Cougar (other topics)A Phantasy And Other Prose Poems (other topics)
The Prophecy (other topics)
Authors mentioned in this topic
Lisa Marie Gabriel (other topics)Lisa Marie Gabriel (other topics)
But! Now they have the book and open it up and what do they see? Hopefully quality, time and effort and solid editing done. If it looks botched right away then ehh you may turn some people away, not necessarily everyone but a good chunk. So make sure you get a good editor or better yet an edit that actually knows what their doing and has a good background in editing. Nothing says help me like a poorly edited book.
I'm no expert by any means in fact none at all however I will share what sites have worked and what hasn't.
Goodreads is my # 1 place to go. I mean there's fellow authors, potential readers and plenty of groups and tools to go to and use that will help and I've certainly used Goodreads to the best of what they have to offer.
FacebookFanpages are not only good but almost a necessity these days. It draws in likes and followers and serves as a good sub page for you and your work. I have found it to work pretty well, page has 300 plus likes and as long as you continue to post often results will show for sure.
Twitter- You can try twitter if you like, it works for some and they really benefit from it. I haven't found how to get into a rhythm with Twitter and find it hard to get into. Maybe I just don't get how to use the site yet despite being a member for 5 months!
AuthorsDen is a site I use and have found quite useful. You can upload your books, write a bio and upload other works and articles. Your aloud 20 posts free then you have to pay although I found a way around it by just posting everything to one page and linking it to other places such as my site and Wattpad.
Wattpad is a good place to post stories and poems. It looks like its for teens and amateurs but I mean I use it as an outlet to post my short stories so I dont cram my website up. You can also read into others stories as well, worth checking out.
Hope some find my words helpful.
You can check out my book, A Bloody Bloody Mess In The Wild Wild West's cover art here on Goodreads or @ http://jbienvenue.webs.com/
Best of luck to everyone in their self-publishing endeavors and looking forward to hearing whats worked for everyone else.