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Jean's Charles Dickens challenge 2014-2015 (and maybe a little further ...)
Interesting: I had no idea. I like the analogy with soap operas!Off to bed to read some Maigret after my Dickens three in two months!
Really enjoyed your review, Jean, I read Oliver Twist about 18 months ago so didn't re-read but have enjoyed the thread. I remember enjoying it although I think for a 1st read I just immerse myself in the story. Maybe in the future I will be a more analytical re-read like you are doing !
I hope to join in with Nicholas Nickleby, again a 1st read for me
I hope to join in with Nicholas Nickleby, again a 1st read for me
Thanks for commenting, Heather, and I'm so pleased that you'll be reading Nicholas Nickleby too! :)It's so good to know that you enjoyed the thread even though you weren't actually doing a current read. Goodreads is great for that isn't it? You can just "dip in" if life's a bit hectic and still feel involved :)
John wrote: "Yes, but nothing profound - clearly Nancy is the 'grey' character, and this makes it the more sad. She clear-sightedly knows she cannot break away from her past and from her love for the abusive Si..."Nancy is for me the most tragic character -- Oliver's situation is sad but he gets the happy ending, while Nancy is doomed. It would have been nice if she could have escaped to start a new life in Australia for example. I wonder whether the criticism Dickens received about including a prostitute made it impossible for him to write an ending in which Nancy doesn't get "punished for her sins".
Jean - I am looking forward to Nicholas Nickleby as a first-time read for me as well :)
NIcholasN will be a first-time read for me too! And I don't know much about the plot, either.
Ooh good, I'm glad you'll be reading this too, Leslie :)And I think your view about Nancy is the same point I made under my spoiler in comment 252, only slightly more elegantly put, thank you :D
Heather - rather than read Nicholas Nickleby, if the timing is difficult when it comes to it, maybe you could watch a dramatisation. Then up to a point you'll be able to follow any discussion if you want to. There are two good ones that I remember, and I think there might also be a film, but I'll look into it a bit nearer to the time.
Great, John! We're getting a nice little group together :) Three in two months shows real dedication; Dickens must have really caught your imagination at the moment! I don't think I've ever read them on the trot like that.
Jean wrote: "Great, John! We're getting a nice little group together :) Three in two months shows real dedication; Dickens must have really caught your imagination at the moment! I don't think I've ever read t..."
I did a Dickens month in Dec. 2012 in which I practically read only Dickens (not quite but close) - in addition to the regular Christmas reading, I read Bleak House, Dombey and Son, Hard Times, and Martin Chuzzlewit. However, I think that Martin Chuzzlewit might not have gotten a fair reading as I was a bit burnt out on Dickens by the time I finished it!
It's all the fault of you, Jean, and Goodreads!
LOL John! I know I do bang on about him a bit...Leslie - all I can say is, wow! I didn't know you then of course... Oh, I can think of something else. Did you deliberately avoid reading any of his Christmas stories that month? It seems very perverse! :D
Jean wrote: "LOL John! I know I do bang on about him a bit...Leslie - all I can say is, wow! I didn't know you then of course... Oh, I can think of something else. Did you deliberately avoid reading any of hi..."
Nope, read those too (and some of his short stories and even some of his poetry!).
Jean - we were talking about readership of Dickens.Quote from Hauser (1999), cited in Wiki piece on Dickens.
"Masses of the illiterate poor chipped in ha'pennies to have each new monthly episode read to them, opening up and inspiring a new claw of readers."
John wrote: "A new CLASS of readers, of course!"Oh good - I was sitting here wondering about the "claw of readers"! :D
On another note, wouldn't that be a fun job - reading aloud for people! Although I am sure not very well paid...
Leslie - have you or Jean read Evelyn Waugh's A Handful of Dust, where, without spoiling, both reading to someone, and Dickens, play a role?
John wrote: "Leslie - have you or Jean read Evelyn Waugh's A Handful of Dust, where, without spoiling, both reading to someone, and Dickens, play a role?"Ah yes! Although I didn't like that as much as some of his other satires.
John - sorry no, but maybe I should give Evelyn Waugh another try then, as that sounds interesting :)That's very interesting about Thomas (?) Hauser. Do you know where it's from? I've found a "historically accurate" novel by him, but that's all so far. The Final Recollections of Charles Dickens: A Novel sounds a good read!
If it's from there then it may be correct anyway. Dickens's own readings/performances must partly have been so popular because they could appeal even to those who were illiterate.
Has anyone else ever seen Simon Callow's brilliant reconstructions of these, by the way?
Jean. The quote is from:Hauser, Arnold (1999) [1951]. TheSocial History of Art: Naturalism, Impressionism, the film age. The Social History of Art 4. London: Routledge. ISBN 978-0-415-19948-3.
Quoted in the third para. of the Wikipedia page on Dickens.
A bit late, but I've just found the original schedule for publication of Oliver Twist in monthly episodes, and how it corresponds to the later editions in book form, so thought I'd post it here:I – February 1837 (chapters 1–2)
II – March 1837 (chapters 3–4)
III – April 1837 (chapters 5–6)
IV – May 1837 (chapters 7–8)
V – July 1837 (chapters 9-11)
VI – August 1837 (chapters 12–13)
VII – September 1837 (chapters 14–15)
VIII – November 1837 (chapters 16–17)
IX – December 1837 (chapters 18–19)
X – January 1838 (chapters 20–22)
XI – February 1838 (chapters 23–25)
XII – March 1838 (chapters 26–27)
XIII – April 1838 (chapters 28–30)
XIV – May 1838 (chapters 31–32)
XV – June 1838 (chapters 33–34)
XVI – July 1838 (chapters 35–37)
XVII – August 1838 (chapters 38-part of 39)
XVIII – October 1838 (conclusion of chapter 39–41)
XIX – November 1838 (chapters 42–43)
XX – December 1838 (chapters 44–46)
XXI – January 1839 (chapters 47–49)
XXII – February 1839 (chapter 50)
XXIII – March 1839 (chapter 51)
XXIV – April 1839 (chapters 52–53)
I wonder what was going on in August-October 1838!
Just to let you know, Jean, I'm starting to read Our Mutual Friend. The first chapter seems familiar; I'm wondering whether I've read it before.
Leslie wrote: "I wonder what was going on in August-October 1838!"Me too! Sort of ruins the symmetry.
This intrigued me too, Leslie, as I know he never missed any literary deadlines, except for when Mary Hogarth died.His journal for 1838 says that in September he asked Richard Bentley (the owner of the magazine "Bentley's Miscellany", of which Dickens was the editor, and in which Oliver Twist was serialised as above) if he might miss a month's installment of Oliver Twist. He then went to the Isle of Wight for about nine days.
On the 22nd Dickens signed an agreement with Bentley concerning the Miscellany and the publication of Barnaby Rudge.
The two didn't seem to get on, however. They fell out over editorial control, and Dickens called Bentley a "Burlington Street Brigand". He quit as editor in 1839.
And now you're going to ask me what he was doing in the IOW! LOL
Oh that's great Gill! Please do comment here! I'd love to hear your thoughts on it as I won't be getting to that again until the end of next year :(Perhaps you remember a TV dramatisation of it? There was a good one in 1998. Among the stellar cast there was:
Paul McGann as Eugene Wrayburn
Keeley Hawes as Lizzie Hexam
Anna Friel as Bella Wilfer
Peter Vaughan as Mr. Boffin
Pam Ferris as Mrs. Boffin
Kenneth Cranham as Silas Wegg
Timothy Spall as Mr. Venus
Margaret Tyzack as Lady Tippins
David Bradley as Rogue Riderhood
Anthony Calf as Alfred Lammle
David Morrissey as Bradley Headstone
Or if you're anything like me, you may have read it years ago and just forgotten! :D
I am so excited to start Nicholas Nickleby later on next month I keep going to my bookcase and looking at it lol :)
Tracey - me too. Starting next week. I've put bookmarks at the start of the nearest chapters to every hundred pages, determined to read each hundred in two days or even one, finishing the book well within three weeks! From what I read, the plot is even more complicated than usual, and uses material from Dickens' trip to the USA. Bit worried that it's not in Jean's 14 book task. Does that mean it's poor, I wonder?
It was the comments about Gill's reading of Barnaby Ridge that threw me!
LOL John! If it confuses us, think what it must be like for Dickens! He was writing two separate serialised novels, researching another, agreeing a contract for a fourth, and editing two magazines, all at the same time!No American content in Nicholas Nickleby though. I wonder if you mean his visit to Yorkshire, in January 1838 with Hablot Browne to look at Poor schools as research? The main "American" novel in my list as far as I remember is Martin Chuzzlewit. Oh, no American content in Barnaby Rudge either - that's set just up the road from here!
So now I'm feeling a little confused myself as to which book you're putting bookmarks in...
Jean - why did I bother to get up today! Of course - it's the Yorkshire school visits I was thinking of! It IS NIcholasN I've bookmarked. OUP version, illustrated by Phiz. Looking forward to it.
ooh guys Yorkshire visits right up this Yorkshire 'lasses' street then :D
It's a brilliant story, but the parts of it about the Poor schools will make you want to cry, Tracey. Either that or very very angry.I'm really looking forward to this read :)
Jean, I've read some reviews of a book which describes it as 'Dickensian'. I'm interested to know what you would take that to mean?
I have no idea Gill! Unless it's said of someone like Leon Garfield. Some people say that of a certain type of Christmas, don't they? Others just mean Victorian. And some people (who in my view should be hung, drawn and quartered) actually use it in a derogatory sense... :D Did you see my comment 280, which was to you? I see you've finished Our Mutual Friend now... Ooo! I have just thought of a picture by a linked Dickens site I was sent today. I think Tracey got it too :) I shall post it to your Facebook page :)
Ta for the photo. No, I've not finished umf. Many pages to go!The comments were about The Goldfinch. The connection I have seen in this book is a cast of many larger-than-life characters, so maybe that's all the reviewers meant.
Cheers re 280, no I didn't see that production. As I get further into the book, I don't think I have read it previously.
Gill - Right. I must have seen your post on a "currently reading" thread I guess, and forgotten which thread I was reading! That tends to happen when you enlarge the page so much that the top comments all fall off!! I expect you find that too.Hope you enjoy the rest of it! There certainly are some larger then life characters in that one! Silas Wegg is amazing - and Noddy Boffin "the Golden Dustman"...
I have now finished watching the 6-hour TV mini-series adaptation of "Oliver Twist" from 1999. (Cast list for this in comment 205.) It's an amazing achievement and I thoroughly enjoyed it, but it is decidedly not the Oliver Twist we have just read.It's almost as if Alan Bleasdale had taken the novel apart, changed it a bit, written a lot of extra material he developed from hints in the book, and put it together again! It's all done chronologically, for a start. So we start the action at the point where Dickens explains all the Leeford/Maylie stuff - which is secret and unexplained until the last few pages of the actual novel.
Bleasdale creates a sort of love/murder mystery story about all this, which yes, starts from the book but is vastly expanded! We only get to the beginning of Dickens's "Oliver Twist" in the second episode, if I remember rightly, which is over an hour in.
There are minor annoyances, such as Mrs Mann and Mrs Corney being switched around, for no reason that I could see. And some of Dickens's wonderful dialogue is changed, some events too. It makes me want to reread the book even though I've only just finished it,
It's well worth watching though. The acting is fantastic! Both the evil Sikes and the tragic epileptic Monks are truly compelling! And John - yes - you'll be pleased to hear that Rose comes across as very sweet. :D
Good!Are you starting Nicholas Nickleby soon? I've just read the first seven chapters: enjoying it very much indeed. Less frenetic than Pickwick, Twist, and developing very nicely.
I'm so pleased John, but am not starting it myself until the middle of the month at the very earliest! I'm still thinking about Oliver Twist to be honest, and reading other stuff too.I planned to read Nicholas Nickleby in May - my Dickens reads are bimonthly, but don't mind starting it the last week in April - or a bit before if it falls that way. With the number of chapters I reckoned on 2 or 3 a day.
Maybe Tracey would like to start it earlier?
"Less frenetic" is interesting. I remember it as being a marvellous story, and that's all :)
Btw Jean, I'm putting Our Mutual Friend on hold until next month. I'm about one third of the way through, but need a bit of a break.
John wrote: "Good!Are you starting Nicholas Nickleby soon? I've just read the first seven chapters: enjoying it very much indeed. Less frenetic than Pickwick, Twist, and developing very nicely."
I read Nicholas Nickleby a couple of years ago and really enjoyed it. I think you'll continue enjoying it, John.
I'm currently reading The Pickwick Papers, which is fun but (so far) a bit Don-Quixote-ish (a book I didn't really enjoy much). I'm still enjoying Pickwick but I'm a bit leery that it'll become too loose and slap-sticky. Keeping my fingers crossed that Dickens tightens up the story a bit.
Petra - comments 34 through to about 144 on this thread are all about The Pickwick Papers, as several of us read it in January. And you might like to read my review here too. There's nothing there to spoil a current read! Hope you do enjoy the rest of the episodes. Feel free to comment on either here too, or join in any future reads :)
Jean,Thank you for your comments. Quite happy to read it alone first (aah!) and save my comments until later. There are already some very interesting (ie odd) aspects to this, which I am dying to see develop.
Petra,
I thought the threads came together very well, so loved it as a coherent whole by the end.
Thanks, Jean & John. I'll go back and read those posts when I get a little more into the story (about 25% done now). I'm glad to hear that the story comes together. I am enjoying it until visions of Don Quixote run through my head at the more slap-stick parts.
Hi, Jean. I was wondering whether you've readCharles Dickens and the Great Theatre of the World. I've just ordered in large print from my library.
It's already on my TBR shelf Gill! I like Simon Callow; I've read his autobiography and seen him enact Dickens' readings.But I had no idea Charles Dickens and the Great Theatre of the World was in Large Print!! So thank you very much for that :) And I'll be interested to hear what you think :)
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Edit: from David Perdue,
Dickens was severely criticized for introducing criminals and prostitutes in Oliver Twist, to which Dickens replied, in the preface to the Library Edition of Oliver Twist in 1858,
"I saw no reason, when I wrote this book, why the very dregs of life, so long as their speech did not offend the ear, should not serve the purpose of a moral, at least as well as its froth and cream."