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A Thread of Words
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Leslie, I have the exact same problem with chartreuse. I wonder where that color association is coming from for me. Maybe I'm thinking of cerise? No idea.
Haha, yes I'm with you both on chartreuse - definitely sounds pink or red. I've no idea why it makes me think of grenadine too! Perhaps that's my colour connection?! An odd mind!! ;)Greg, I'm afraid I know 'brass neck' because my Dad is a retired teacher & it was his nickname at school! I wouldn't have known if he hadn't taught my (very naughty!) older brother (by 12 years) - who he caned twice at school! I didn't believe my brother & checked with my Dad - the gentlest, quietest, fairest minded person I've ever had the pleasure to know! I just did not compute at all with the man I knew, but it was true! He barely ever raised his voice at us as kids, never mind raise a hand to us, although he was strict he was always firm but fair!!! You don't hear the term used much anymore. Maybe it helped that they banned the cane!!
Something else I haven't heard for years that I came across today'Ecky thump!
I love the expressions tickled pink & tickled my fancy too!
Jean wrote: "Believe it or not, I mixed that one up too Jacks! Since I was telling my parents about a rude little boy who'd called me that, I was a bit surprised at the vehemence of their reaction! One word I..."
Exacerbate ... Great word that!
Tell you what's always perplexed me, why do flammable and inflammable mean the same thing?!
Chatterjak wrote: "Oh my, I really have missed GR, it has been a delight re-reading this thread, & it has cheered me up greatly! As always, it sparks the old cogs off & the following words popped into my head:Gerr..."
I've not heard of Gerrymandering before.
I've always liked perspicacity though, something about the way it sounds when you say it (if you don't fumble over the syllables!). Prognostication is another in a similar vein:
"Perspicacious prognosticator's presentation postponement perplexes public"
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Chatterjak wrote: "Tell you what's always perplexed me, why do flammable and inflammable mean the same thing?! ..."Just looked in my dictionary - after the definition of inflammable there was a note about this. Here is what it said:
"The words inflammable and flammable both have the same meaning 'easily set on fire.' This might seem surprising, given that the prefix in- normally has the function of negation, as in words like indirect and insufficient. It might be expected, therefore, that inflammable would mean the opposite of flammable, i.e. 'not easily set on fire.' In fact, inflammable is formed using a different Latin prefix in-, which has the meaning 'into' and here has the effect of intensifying the meaning of the word in English. The opposite of flammable (and inflammable) is non-flammable (or non-inflammable)."
So it sounds to me as if "inflammable" is even more likely to set on fire than "flammable'!
That is interesting Leslie :)I've just been checking that a word I used to describe a couple of characters (Charity and Mercy Pecksniff, daughters of the notorious hypocrite) had the right nuance. I had called her "priggish". So you can imagine how delighted I was to find "Pecksniffian" listed as a synonym :D YAY!
Leslie wrote: "Chatterjak wrote: "Tell you what's always perplexed me, why do flammable and inflammable mean the same thing?! ..."Just looked in my dictionary - after the definition of inflammable there was a n..."
That's interesting, Leslie. I remember my English teacher at school telling us they meant the same thing, except that "inflammable" means that it is so flammable it might even be able to set on fire by itself, whereas "flammable" means it would need a flame to ignite but it would burn very easily and quickly. So I guess she was right in a way, as inflammable seems to be the more intense of the two.
Spontaneous combustion? That seems a further step to me, but maybe not?
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Greg wrote: "Another website said that inflammable is an older word. Flammable was rarely used until the 20th century. People kept getting confused about the meaning of inflammable; so for safety reasons (produ..."That makes sense to me.
"reasons of clarity"? To me it just seems to confuse the whole issue!
LOL! Cross-posting with opposite reactions? Don't you just love Goodreads? ;)
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I think the confusing thing is that now there are both words.
The clarity part is that someone picking up a children's blanket would know not to put it next to the electric heater. They look at the tag and see "flammable" written on it. Pretty much 100% of people would know flammable + fire = bad.
Before that, the tag attached to the blanket would say "inflammable". Some people would understand. Others would look at the tag and think "in" = not; thus inflammable + fire = ok. Then they'd snuggle up next to the electric heater in their big comfy blanket and soon ... a call to the fire department.
So yes, it's hugely confusing to have both words in circulation (for readers of books for instance), but the fire authorities were mainly concerned that when people saw a tag "flammable" attached to a blanket, they would think "fire bad." So the fire authorities pushed hard to have everything marked "flammable" instead of "inflammable." They weren't so much caring whether it was confusing for the rest of us.
That's what some sites say. Goodness knows all wiki information isn't accurate, but it sounded somewhat plausible anyway.
Yes. I get you. "In" usually equals "not" - I can see where the reasoning came from now. Thanks.
Might one say that the difference between 'flammable' and 'inflammble' is a bit of a hot topic?:D
Very funny discussion above. The labeling decision must have been made by a bureaucrat, not by a grammarian.
Surprised and delighted to have 'inflamed' so much interest, or perhaps I should say 'sparked'? ;)
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LOL Jakki! Should I humiliate myself by admitting that you taught me something too. I have a decent vocabulary, I think, but I was unclear on the meaning of "inflammable" before your post. Now I'll never forget it! :D
Greg wrote: "Chatterjak wrote: "Surprised and delighted to have 'inflamed' so much interest, or perhaps I should say 'sparked'? ;)"LOL Jakki! Should I humiliate myself by admitting that you taught me somethin..."
No humiliation necessary -- I didn't know this either.
I think this article from today's Guardian about 'Words We Love' is great:http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015...
Gill wrote: "I think this article from today's Guardian about 'Words We Love' is great:http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015..."
Great link Gill! I particularly like all the different words the Brits have (had?) for mud -- similar to the Eskimos having so many words for snow I thought :P
Great article Gill, lots of interesting word choices.
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http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015..."
Fun article Gill!
Gill, thank you for the link. Very enjoyable!
I learned a new word today: pullulateIt's a verb which means 1) to germinate or sprout or 2) to swarm or teem
I ran across it in my short story of the day "The Bookshop" by Aldous Huxley.
"[The main arterial street] was almost airy, almost gay. But all around great tracts of slum pullulated dankly."
What a wonderful word choice!
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B the BookAddict wrote: ""as bold as brass" a term used by the nuns at my school to describe an unruly pupil. Of course, the nuns never called me that, except for Sister Joan, Sister Ignatious, Sister Helen. lol:)"
I've heard that before -- I wonder what the origin is. Is brass bolder somehow than other metal alloys? I guess it is a bolder color than steel...
@Leslie Wiki says it means 'confident to the point of impudence'. I had assumed it was just a 'nunnarism' something made up by the nuns.We also were warned that we might become 'a pickle-factory girl' if we did not adhere to the rules, lol.
B the BookAddict wrote: "@Leslie Wiki says it means 'confident to the point of impudence'. I had assumed it was just a 'nunnarism' something made up by the nuns.We also were warned that we might become 'a pickle-factor..."
I am off to check my dictionary of slang & unconventional English... OK, here is what it says:
"bold as brass" meaning shameless, presumptuous was probably suggested by the slightly earthier term brazen-faced; came into popular usage after being used by Defoe in his satirical poem The True Born Englishman, first published in 1701.
@Leslie That dictionary sounds interesting. Do you have a physical copy or use a digital one?
B the BookAddict wrote: "@Leslie That dictionary sounds interesting. Do you have a physical copy or use a digital one?"I have an old hardcover copy that I got from my parents when they downsized. Too bad I didn't get their etymological dictionary too!
I do have a fun Kindle reference book 1811 Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue which I downloaded from Project Gutenburg because I read a fair amount of English Regency & Georgian historical fiction.
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That's an interesting and wellfounded point you make, Laura.@Leslie I used to have a hardcover heavy copy of a Thesaurus, which I could spend many a happy hour with. But it disappeared when we moved interstate; I suspect my husband had a hand in that but he stayed mum and I did not ever find out. Perhaps he tired of me say "did you know another word for 'this' is 'that'?
LauraT wrote: "Read some months ago Bryson's Dictionary of Troublesome Words: A Writer's Guide to Getting It Right and liked it quite. As usual I've noticed that lots of the words English mother toungue..."So true!
I learnt something new today. I learnt that 'ingenious' and 'ingenuous' are two different words with two different meanings. I knew about the two meanings, but I'd always assumed that they were spelt the same way. It's never too late to learn!
@ Gill: That is interesting. I had also taken for granted that they were spelt the same way.
@Gill The older I get, the more I read which means the more I learn.
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Here's an expression which came to mind recently, and I think it may be just a British idiom:to send someone to Coventry
It means to deliberately ostracise somebody, by avoiding their company and generally pretending they don't exist. The "victims" are treated as though they are completely invisible and inaudible.
The phrase probably dates back to the 1640's during the Civil war, and was often used during industrial disputes in the 19th century. Nowadays though it's more often used by children in the school playground, who behave in this way to instill pressure when friendships are constantly changing.
Is this one known further afield?
I know that phrase just through my reading of English books. So it is an idiom which hasn't crossed the Atlantic (as far as I know). Here we now would say "peer pressure", although peer pressure is less specific as it can take different forms. Reading your description I am reminded by an Amish custom of shunning. That is essentially the same (treating the shunned person as if they were not there) and given the history of the Amish in the US might stem from the same roots of the 1600s Civil War (as many Amish emigrated to the "colonies" during and just after that period). I believe that this is the harshest form of discipline in the Amish community, which just goes to show how important society is to humans.
Leslie - yes I seem to remember it from schoolgirl books - and possibly Enid Blyton. Perhaps some classics too? "Peer pressure" is broader, isn't it, as you say. I can't think of an exact synonym. How interesting about the Amish! Yes I think it must be a basic human instinct, which also makes me wonder if it's present in the animal kingdom - possibly the "cleansing of the hive"? Peer pressure is, I think. Now I'm getting into SciFi though!
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Laura - from "The Phrase Finder"Meaning
"To be ignored or ostracised. This behaviour often takes the form of pretending that the shunned person, although conspicuously present, can't be seen or heard."
Origin
"The origins of this phrase aren't known, although it is quite probable that events in Coventry in the English Civil War in the 1640s play a part. For those not familiar with the UK, Coventry is an industrial city in Warwickshire, England. It is well-known for its two cathedrals; the modern cathedral being built in 1962 to replace the old cathedral, which was destroyed during an intense German bombing raid in 1940.
In the 17th century, when this phrase is supposed to have originated, Coventry was a small town. It has been suggested that the phrase, although we now use it in an allusory sense, originated from people being actually sent there.
The story - and it is no more than that - is that Cromwell sent a group of Royalist soldiers to be imprisoned in Coventry, around 1648. The locals, who were parliamentary supporters, shunned them and refused to consort with them."
It's the sort of phrase which is well-known and commonly used in England to describe a very specific behaviour, but few people know its origin. I didn't until I looked it up!
We had 'being sent to Coventry' at school; it was a punishment metered out by the Nuns.
All About Books
Books mentioned in this topic
Bryson's Dictionary of Troublesome Words: A Writer's Guide to Getting It Right (other topics)Bryson's Dictionary of Troublesome Words: A Writer's Guide to Getting It Right (other topics)
1811 Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue (other topics)
Twenty Years After (other topics)
The Polar Express (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Enid Blyton (other topics)Enid Blyton (other topics)
Bertrand Russell (other topics)
Bertrand Russell (other topics)
Bertrand Russell (other topics)
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I was surprised by the list though, especially "cheesiness" which I would have put as more modern.
@Chatterjak -- we have gerrymandering here in the U.S. too (maybe it came over on the Mayflower!)
One word I can never remember correctly is chartreuse, which for some reason I persist in thinking of as a red/pink color instead of greeny yellow.