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Smashwords vs KDP
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Mark
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Nov 12, 2013 07:53PM
I have had my first novel, of a trilogy, with KDP select for a year. Although the numbers were steady, until two months ago, they weren't earthshaking. I did a promotional giveaway this summer for e-book and got into 6 countries with a good turnout in USA. Then the sales stopped. My KDP select has expired and I have recently downloaded the SM guide and reformatted the original manuscript accordingly. I am looking for input on what to expect with SMW and maybe someone has some info why sales are non-existent on KDP. Help!
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I think everyone's experience is different. I've read that some people do much better on SW than they do on KDP.My experience was the opposite. In a few months time, I sold a few hundred on Amazon, and 1 on SW, 1 on B&N and none on Google Books.
Maybe I didn't give it enough time to get out to all of the retailers, but the early results convinced me that Amazon was the place to be. Most of the time when I mention Smashwords to someone who isn't an author, they've never heard of it. Who doesn't know Amazon?
Plus they've got global reach, Cloud Reader, apps on every platform. CreateSpace. ACX. Holographic narrators. Oh wait, that's not out yet. (Bloody timeline glitches!)
I don't always use my brain, but when I do, I pick Amazon.
(Disclaimer: This is not an endorsement of Amazon as a righteous behemoth of a company. Ultimately all large companies are driven by stockholder greed (because the super-wealthy must have more money) and their policies and behaviors will reflect that. I expect a business to look after its own interests the way I expect a bee to sting me if I smack it in its disturbing little furry face. I'm just saying that as a marketing decision for authors, I don't see how you can beat Amazon.)
From a number of writers I know, they all claim SW sells the fewest number of books with the vendors they list with. They all suspect the reason is because SW does not get the traffic Amazon or B&N gets...
Frankly, I don't understand how you all sell "a few hundred" anywhere. I've never sold anywhere near that much publishing on Smash or Kindle, or I might say electronically. Okay, I'm a lousy promoter--but do you guys do major promoting?
I have the background of one of my books on my Twitter profile. That's about it. I hate marketing and don't know how to market. I can't even write a freakin' resume because I suck at self-promotion.I also don't know how to describe my stories, write a decent blurb, or determine what the "theme" is or the "tone."
I'm kinda like an idiot.
Totally understand about promoting - takes up loads of time and you feel like your life is passing you by. Also, it takes up a lot of the time that could be spent writing - which, after all, is what it's all about. Like the idea of putting the background of one of your books on your Twitter profile.
Marcy wrote: "Frankly, I don't understand how you all sell "a few hundred" anywhere. I've never sold anywhere near that much publishing on Smash or Kindle, or I might say electronically. Okay, I'm a lousy promo..."I'm with you, Marcy--100 books? wow. I sell a few from the bookstores where I have them on consignment, and a few downloads. I decided not to do the freebies anymore because it gets me nothing. I promote on twitter, FB, GR, I have them on amazon, SW, Wavecloud and now BookDaily, a new one I just discovered. I'm considering paying money for advertising--at least for a month to see if it helps sales. Best thing is to write and try to ignore it--according to some, the more books you have out there the better things go.
Nikki wrote: I like your comment Nikk: 'Best thing is to write and try to ignore it--according to some, the more books you have out there the better things go.'
I think that this is very much the right approach to take. It is a fine line between spending lots of time blogging to try and promote your book, and leaving enough time to write more books.
Thanks, Toni. I have three out there and working on a fourth and still sales are slow. One person suggested adding a line at the end of book asking for a review. I may do that in this next one. "If you like this book and have the time, a review would be much appreciated." (or something along those lines)
My experience is that I sold next to nothing with Smashwords. I use KDP select and find free promos work. In one, after a weekend download of over 5000 of my books I was high enough in the ratings to get into the bestsellers for 3 days. Very heady! But definitely writing more is best. I wrote a short story prequel as a promo for my novel and put it free on smashwords thinking it would be a free promo. On Amazon I had to put it on a 99 cents. It sold more on Amazon than free downloads on Smashwords and it nearly always results in a purchase of my novel. I use the 5 days free promo. Some produce better sales than others but I always get sales after a promo day.Re reviews joining groups and offering your book free for review works best. It often secures you a fan who will then buy your books. Hope this helps.
Helen wrote: "My experience is that I sold next to nothing with Smashwords. I use KDP select and find free promos work. In one, after a weekend download of over 5000 of my books I was high enough in the ratings..."Helen, did you leave your books up on SW? I've already taken mine down and put them back up--I guess it doesn't matter to have them there except for the problem with KDP select...I did get a lot of downloads when I did my KDP promo--maybe a one day thing is the way to go. I'll check carefully the next time to see if I get a spike in sales...
Nikki wrote: "Helen wrote: "My experience is that I sold next to nothing with Smashwords. I use KDP select and find free promos work. In one, after a weekend download of over 5000 of my books I was high enough ..."Oh, and I like the idea of the short story prequel--very good! did you have to publish or was it easy to do it as an e-book?
Nikki wrote: "Thanks, Toni. I have three out there and working on a fourth and still sales are slow. One person suggested adding a line at the end of book asking for a review. I may do that in this next one. "If..." Which book is this Nikki? Sorry - just come into the discussion.
Nikki wrote: "Helen wrote: "My experience is that I sold next to nothing with Smashwords. I use KDP select and find free promos work. In one, after a weekend download of over 5000 of my books I was high enough ..." That sounds like a very good idea to just do a one day free promo. I haven't actually taken advantage of the KDP select programme but might well do so soon. I have 5 books out; 2 fantasy, time travel fiction; one book of faery stories that I am having printed as a paperback etc.
Marcy wrote: "Frankly, I don't understand how you all sell "a few hundred" anywhere. I've never sold anywhere near that much publishing on Smash or Kindle, or I might say electronically. Okay, I'm a lousy promo..."Marcy: I did KDP free promotion: I had a formatting issue, so it wasn't uber successful as far as quality and reviews, but if you don't mind giving books away, ( I don't) I had 13k downloads. I'm hoping by generating readers, I can sell future books. Bottom line, it's exciting to have my story in front of readers, and even better when I find that readers are liking it!
Part of what might hurt the Smashwords crowd is that for a reader to get a book, they have to make an account. There's no option to purchase without creating an account there. Yes, Amazon does the same thing, but most people already have an Amazon account, whereas (as someone else pointed out), a lot of non-authors don't even know what Smashwords is.
Toni wrote: "Nikki wrote: "Thanks, Toni. I have three out there and working on a fourth and still sales are slow. One person suggested adding a line at the end of book asking for a review. I may do that in this..."in answer to your question Toni--Wolfmoon Trilogy--(nikki broadwell)
V.K. wrote: "Part of what might hurt the Smashwords crowd is that for a reader to get a book, they have to make an account. There's no option to purchase without creating an account there. Yes, Amazon does the ..."I'd forgotten about that--that isn't good for sales. Check out BookDaily--I just added my books there. It's free unless you want extra promo which I might do...
also Wavecloud lets you list for free--haven't had any sales there, however, but it hasn't been a month since I listed my books.
Nikki wrote: "V.K. wrote: "Part of what might hurt the Smashwords crowd is that for a reader to get a book, they have to make an account. There's no option to purchase without creating an account there. Yes, Ama..."Will check out Book Daily Nikki. Could you tell me where you find this please. Thanks.
I'll go along with those who found Smashwords, nary a sell after a while. At first more sales, I went to KDP and sold, very month, books. Promos always generates sales for me. I have three books and from the free, another is almost 95% sure to sell. Although, Amazon needs competition, right now, it's the way to sell especially for an Indie.
Toni wrote: "Nikki wrote: "V.K. wrote: "Part of what might hurt the Smashwords crowd is that for a reader to get a book, they have to make an account. There's no option to purchase without creating an account t..."I got an email from Book daily--but if you google Bookdaily it will come up...
Helen wrote: "My experience is that I sold next to nothing with Smashwords. I use KDP select and find free promos work. In one, after a weekend download of over 5000 of my books I was high enough in the ratings..."Helen, that's a good call. And I like the idea of giving books away in groups in the hope it will turn into sales of later books. I think some fans stay with you for one book, others one or two, others will read anything one creates! I want the last group!
I have tried both Amazon and Smashwords for my first novel. Through Amazon I sold over 800 books and on Smashwords I have sold 1 through Barnes & Noble.I am seriously considering removing the book from Smashwords as it has returned so little. That said I am looking for additional outlets to Amazon as well.
I don't sell many through Smashwords and their channels, but I sell some. This year's first quarter report shows I've sold three at iBooks and eight at B&N. I guess I feel some loyalty to B&N because I read on a Nook. :-) I also have friends and relatives who buy from B&N and iBooks.That said, I'm thinking about trying Select. Now that I have three out I'm considering listing my first with Select. The people I know personally who wanted it already have it so that's no longer a concern. It's the first in a series and I'll release the second this spring, so I thought that might be a good time to try it.
I use select exclusively--took my books off SW after no sales...my sales are low no matter what I try--seems it's hard getting my peeps to find my books!
Nikki wrote: "I use select exclusively--took my books off SW after no sales...my sales are low no matter what I try--seems it's hard getting my peeps to find my books!"Most sales, I suspect, will be just from the major online bookseller sites like amazon.com, Barnes and Noble, kobo, ibooks, etc.
What you gain from aggregator/publisher sites like smashwords and others is help distributing your book to various sites including amazon (particularly ebooks for their ereader platforms). Which you can do yourself withh a little know-how (unless accepting an "exclusive" agreement with someone like KDP Select). I thhink those sites are more intended to facilitate your sales elsewhere than claiming to sell a lot for you directly. Some have additional programs like letting you offer codes to your beta readers to download book free, discount coupons, etc., don't require exclusivity, don't lock you into set pricing or limited time free offers ...
There really are some readers who don't read ebooks soley on the kindle -- many also read on nook, kobo, sony, etc.
I put my first (and so far only) book out via Smashwords as well as amazon/Kindle. Sales there are few, but I was new at the game and it seemed hopelessly confusing to worry about all the different formats for places like Nook, iBook, Kobo, etc. Amazon is the biggest game in town and it really pays to go with them. I just don't like having all my eggs in one basket. That's too much like a monopoly.
I haven't tried Smashwords, but have published my first novel (Interrogating Ellie) using KDP Select (and Createspace for the paperback). After about 6 weeks, KDP Select borrows are running at about 15% of borrows and sales of the e-book put together. I have no way of knowing whether those people would not have bought it, had it not been possible to borrow it, but it seems like a reasonably sensible choice to have made, given this volume. I'll review this when the 90 days period comes up for potential renewal. At this point I guess I'll need to decide whether to continue on KDP Select or put the e-book on other platforms. If anyone has advice on how to decide this, it would be welcomed.
I use Smashwords, KDP, and NookPress. The advantage to Smashwords is that it can distribute to other markets if you opt in, thereby keeping you from having to do separate formatting and separate accounts for each retailer. Also you can get any format you want from Smashwords (even .pdf) as a download. I probably make an average of $10-20 a year in sales through Smashwords alone.KDP - I never use select. Exclusivity bothers me. I do use their Kindle Worlds platform but I'm loathe to pull my work from other outlets just for select.
Nook Press - good results here, but you have to have an account and upload and format to their specs. My first two books I just left on Smashwords and have them distribute rather than take off sale and put back up. I haven't tried their print division yet.
Of course, I'm several years into this with four full-length novels, two novellas, and three Kindle World novellas. The more titles I have, the steadier my sales have been. It took almost a year with only one title to break about $10 in royalties.
I have my latest novel, a Fantasy Gothic Thriller 'Night Of All Evil' on Smashwords, and Isee they have censored the book as not to be read by those under the age of eighteen, Must be the sex...I know the sex is descriptive, but I doubt that it should be censored.
T.M., KDP does not demand exclusivity. You might be thinking of Kindle Select; that does demand it. KDP is simply a way of publishing your ebook for Amazon, while CreateSpace is the way to publish your print book for Amazon. You can use KDP and still use Smashwords.BTW, if you choose the Expanded Distribution on CreateSpace, they provide your print book to Barnes and Noble.
Laurel wrote: "BTW, if you choose the Expanded Distribution on CreateSpace, they provide your print book to Barnes and Noble. "Expanded distribution will make it available to order via the B&N online store, it does not place it in physical stores. B&N do not stock POD titles plus they have their own internal system for assessing what titles they will stock (you have to submit a marketing plan to them along with other material they consider) and which books appear on their database as available to be ordered.
A.W. wrote: "Laurel wrote: "BTW, if you choose the Expanded Distribution on CreateSpace, they provide your print book to Barnes and Noble. "Expanded distribution will make it available to order via the B&N on..."
I knew the books aren't in the stores. I didn't make it clear that I was talking about online. Sorry about that.
Laurel wrote: "I knew the books aren't in the stores. I didn't make it clear that I was talking about online"It's a good point to clarify :) Some people mistakenly believe that ticking expanded distribution or having a listing in the Ingram catalogue, means their novels will appear in bookstores, when that's not the case.
J M wrote: "I have my latest novel, a Fantasy Gothic Thriller 'Night Of All Evil' on Smashwords, and Isee they have censored the book as not to be read by those under the age of eighteen, Must be the sex...I ..."
And I've ran into the opposite. because I didn't have explicit sex, Amazon insists that I wrote a juvenile. I can't get rid of the tag.
It just seems somehow 'right' to me to put my titles in the most places I can find, recently began using XinXii and Drive Thru Fiction, alongside Smashwords, All Romance eBooks and Amazon. I kind of think, for now, I have all of the bases covered.Everyone's experience of Select/KU is different.
Laurel wrote: "...BTW, if you choose the Expanded Distribution on CreateSpace, they provide your print book to Barnes and Noble. ..."Expanded distribution just provides your book data to the onix/Ingram databases and others. Which many online and brick-and-mortar bookstores use to order books.
Translates into Barnes and Noble website listing your print book so people can order it (and customers can go into real life bookstores and special order it).
Doesn't necessarily put anyone's print book on store shelves. Does mean stores could order it for their shelves. Useful for booksignings if a bookstore wants to stock the books while you are there versus you having to bring all supplies. Some indie bookstores keep local author sections so might carry yours—particularly if they can stock it via their usual onix system.
ETA: Clarity and, wow, autocorrect on my tablet had me manually editing and overriding way too many times the word "onix"...
If I were you, I'd do more than just Amazon and Smashwords. You can go direct for Kobo, Google Play and Barnes & Nobles, maybe iBooks if you have a Mac, then use Smashwords and Drat 2 Digital for any smaller e-retailers.1.) Its good to cast as wide a net as possible so that Amazon is not your sole source of book revenue. Plus, the one size fits all for every retailer might cause some formatting issues in one store that aren't visible in other stores.
2.) Going direct for the other non-Amazon major e-retailers prevents SM or D2D from taking that extra 10% from all your sales.
C.C. wrote: "2.) Going direct for the other non-Amazon major e-retailers prevents SM or D2D from taking that extra 10% from all your sales. ..."True, but for folks like me where >95% of sales still come from Amazon, I'm happy to give D2D their 10% for the convenience of having everything in one account.
I have never published a book before, but I have a children's book ready to be published but I have no Idea where to start. I was fixed on KDP until I heard there were other companies out there like Smaswords. I also heard that KDP doesn't really make that much money. I was considering other publishers but I don't know where to start their either. I was hoping for some advice, pointers.
Jessica, from what I've heard, children's books are hard to sell in e-book format. That's one category where print is still king.However, if you're going with e-books, KDP is absolutely essential in my opinion. Amazon still dominates the market, so you'd be losing a huge chunk of potential sales if you didn't use KDP. As long as you don't enroll in Select (which makes your book exclusive to KDP), you can still publish elsewhere. I prefer D2D over Smashwords.
My book has been on KDP Select (ebook) since May 1st. Once it was past it's 90 days, I got it reformatted, set it up on Smashwords, and signed up for a couple of ebook promos on-line. Then I tried to change my price on KDP to allow for the promo. Pump the brakes, Ethel. No can do. Unbeknownst to me, KDP Select auto renewed my book for an additional 90 days - whereby I can't publish my book on any other site (including SW) nor can I promo it with any other book promoter - until October 29th. All this, "for my convenience." Has anyone run into this before? What will I have to do? So far, I've lost the money I put up for the on-line promotion, but I am seriously concerned I will have to unpublish from SW. Is that true?? Please don't tell me how stupid I was - I'm already beating myself up over this.
Kathi wrote: "My book has been on KDP Select (ebook) since May 1st. Once it was past it's 90 days, I got it reformatted, set it up on Smashwords, and signed up for a couple of ebook promos on-line. Then I trie..."There is a setting you have to click to deselect from auto-renewal. Other alternative is to publish elsewhere and let Amazon kick you out of KDP Select for not following rules. Should allow you just to be in Select but there is a risk they can ban your book.
Remember too that you can force Amazon pricing down to free by price matching via another site. Not that I do that but some writers like to have perm free versions
Yeah, I don't fancy being banned, nor do I want to give it away for free. I unclicked the auto renewal for Select as soon as I heard about that - about 3 hours ago. I guess my best option is to unpublish from SW, and wait out the next 62 days. Does anybody know if there is any blow
back from unpublishing from SW and re-enrolling at a later date?
Kathi wrote: "Yeah, I don't fancy being banned, nor do I want to give it away for free. I unclicked the auto renewal for Select as soon as I heard about that - about 3 hours ago. I guess my best option is to u..."Just unpublish and republish when you are ready.
Done. Now reaching for the wine and moving all the things I had *planned* on doing for marketing to the back burner. What a cock-up.
You can unpublish from SW and republish at will. The only catch is that some of the distributors that SW deals with may take a long time to remove your books when you unpublish (even up to 2 months). They just canceled their agreement with Flipkart, which was the worst offender, so hopefully that will help.
Thanks Ken. I appreciate the information.
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Books mentioned in this topic
Interrogating Ellie (other topics)The Prophecy (other topics)
