Discussion thread 1: Foucault's Pendulum Chapters 1 to end of chapter 6

[Traveller]

Derek (Guilty of thoughtcrime) wrote: "Traveller wrote: "Who the heck are The Assassins even?"

Sorry, I meant to respond to this at the time. I'm only about a month and a half late.

"The Assassins" are the Hashshashins, Ismailis and t..."

Now that is an interesting bit of information! As soon as I have my son at hand, I'll try and figure out with him if they had anything to do with th inspiration for the game Assassin's Creed. Hmm, a quick glance at Wikipedia confirms it:

"Assassin's Creed is a historical action-adventure open world stealth video game developed by Ubisoft Montreal released in 2007 for PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360, and 2008 for Microsoft Windows. The game primarily takes place during the Third Crusade in the Holy Land in 1191, with the plot revolving around the Secret Order of Assassins, based upon the Hashshashin sect. The player is in reality playing as a modern-day man named Desmond Miles, who through the use of a machine named the "Animus", is allowed the viewing and controlling of the protagonist's genetic memories of his ancestors, in this case, Altaïr ibn-La'Ahad, a member of the Assassins.

Through this plot device, details emerge of a struggle between two factions, the Knights Templar and the Assassins, over an artifact known as a "Piece of Eden", an ancient artifact used to control minds. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassin...




This is very, very interesting! These games are my son's favorite of all time, he's nuts about them. I tried to play them myself, actually, but the stealth and the controls frustrated me too much.







At various times in the series, (the series progresses through time) Leonardo Da Vinci and the Borgias also feature in the plot. :)

[Traveller]

Derek (Guilty of thoughtcrime) wrote: ""The Assassins" are the Hashshashins, Ismailis and the followers (at the time of most of the events described in the book) of Rashid ad-Din Sinan, the Old Man of the Mountain. He (and they) were significant players during the Crusades, and would be well known to the Templars..."

I've just shown my son what I've posted above, and the link you posted to The Old Man of the Mountain, and he exclaimed: "Yes, I've been there!" and at a puzzled look by me, "In the game, of course".

My son, it appears, is steeped in the history around this because of the game! Now I'd be very interested to know how accurately the game portrays history.

Obviously there are fantasy element intertwined in it, but I'd be interested to know how historically accurate their background is, especially as they incorporate things like the Renaissance, and Leonardo da Vinci, Machiavelli, etc, and even in the later games, the American revolution.

[Tim]

Traveller wrote: "Jan-Maat wrote: "Talking of jokes I like that the hero is called Causabon - who is the Anglican Priest from Middlemarch who wastes his life on Biblical studies not realising that that ..."

May also refer to Isaac Casaubon (1559-1614) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Ca.... Since Isaac wrote an an analysis of the "Corpus Hermeticum", Eco was surely familiar with him. Plus Eco's penchant for multiple levels of signification convinces me he had him in mind.

[Traveller]

Wow, thanks for joining the discussion, Tim! You're really enriching this discussion for us.

Indeed! Eco does seem to enjoy multiple layers, but besides that, your Causabon certainly seems like a likely character for Eco to have (partly?) based the character on.

Eco also seems to enjoy making abstract models, and reducing objects/systems into "patterns" himself, btw, if his structuralist analysis of the James Bond novels are anything to go by....

[Tim]

Thanks for the welcome Traveller.

Another interesting tidbit about Isaac Casaubon - from wikipedia:

"His analysis of the Corpus Hermeticum overturned the previous general opinion in Europe that these texts dated from almost the time of Moses by locating them between 200 and 300 AD."

The theme of texts that were once accepted as true and then proven false (and perhaps even taken as true once again) seem to recur in Foucault's Pendulum.

Two examples:

"The Protocols of the Elders of Zion", originally published as a French track, later plagiarized and published as fact in Russian, then proven a fiction, yet later revived (even re-distributed by Henry Ford).

"The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail", also French. Published as part of a great hoax. Proven false. Then revived by the BBC in a television series.

[Tim]

J. wrote: "I'm sorely lacking a reference book at hand whilst reading, as (for example) it was obvious that Abulafia was some sort of reference, but to what I was unable to discern as I was reading, and since..."

Another interesting, short read, by Eco about computer technology is "Mac is Catholic, DOS is Protestant".

Can't find the full text, but some exerpts here:

http://cs.calvin.edu/documents/christ...

[Traveller]

You have me wondering now if there may at all be a possibility that George Eliot was referring back to Isaac Causabon with her own character Causabon; since Eliot's Causabon is himself involved with relatively arcane studies.

Yeah, we did mention "The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail" somewhere in this labyrinth of threads in the group.

[EdMohs]

Traveller wrote: "Oh! I still wanted to ask if anyone knows what "Metacyclosynchrotron " means, and while trying to find an answer on the internet, lookee what I found!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Sha......"

Thanks for that wiki link Traveler. I've never seen it!
F.P cry's out to be indexed. A project I always wanted to tackle.

I guess an opening question I've had from reading the
F.P. many times is:
Was Casaubon set up?

[Derek]

Ed wrote: "Was Casaubon set up? "

Hah! You expect simple answers to questions like that? I think the answer is "Yes", "No", and "Why? Do you know something?" depending on time of day, season, and the direction of a flight of birds. I certainly doubt Eco would ever tell!

[EdMohs]

I thought it was good opening question
and certainly don't expect a simple answer
or Umberto to show any of his cards.

After many readings- I can't find a connection of whether Casaubon was set-up.
But I may be missing something!
That why I'm tossing the questions out there
to well read people of the text.

The only spot where I can imagine a set up did occur is when Belbo excuses Casaubon to have a private conversation with Ardenti. Diotallevi plays it off as the regular routine Belbo would take with a client they wanted to propose an SFA contract with. Plausible. But we'll never know what was really said behind closed doors. And the way Casaubon got into Ardenti face during the discussion we can only surmise that the the good Colonel would like to take Casaubon to the cleaners.

So I was just wondering if anyone else had any textual connection of a Casaubon set up?

[Traveller]

I admit I hadn't thought of the idea that Casaubon specifically was set up - you mean that Diotallevi and Belbo could also have been in on setting him up?

Frankly I suspected that all three of them might have been, to some extent, set up and that the publisher might have been in on it.

[Derek]

Yes, I think the publisher had his own agenda, slightly beyond just taking poor authors to the cleaners.

[EdMohs]

Traveller wrote: "I admit I hadn't thought of the idea that Casaubon specifically was set up - you mean that Diotallevi and Belbo could also have been in on setting him up?

Frankly I suspected that all three of the..."

You bring up a good point Traveller
I hadn't thought of!

I always assumed that IF Casaubon was set up--- it was from the beginning say by Belbo. Maybe not even for nefarious reasons. Just to get a scholar involved in his hobby of esoterical writers? Or maybe just sit in on the Colonel interview? Because secretly Belbo as a hidden interest. Yes he's a skeptic. But he also as a longing. And he'd like to have a informed counterweight to his hidden interest. So he doesn't get too carried away. If that makes any sense?

I never considered that IF a set-up occurred it may have happened after Casaubon was already well established at Garamonds. Everyone toward the end were getting punchy. Only Aglie seemed to be above the fray. Perhaps some nefariousness happened there? And not just to Belbo!

I don't want to take that theory any further until I do some more reading along that new line of thought...

All that said though-- I don't believe Umberto purposely played a cat & mouse game with the plot or how the characters meet. In example- the major protagonists were all chance encounters. I think that how Eco set it up and that's what the text presents. To the best of my reading.


Yet it is a complex novel with shady going on between characters. IS it possible that the author
himself -inadvertently- had one of his characters open a passageway that indicates a setup?
A textual malfunction of sorts?

As we all know--
these things can happen.

[EdMohs]

Hi Everyone

I wanted to share this postcard that I received



With just these cryptic word on the back



can’t be 100% sure who sent it
maybe Belbo ?

Ha Ha

enjoy
Ed

[Derek]

He might at least have signed it!

[EdMohs]

right on Derek
you raise an interesting point

you got me wondering who said it
and in what text ?
is it in F.P. ?

I'm sure its Ecoian

But who is the quote attributed to ?


a hunt !

[Derek]

Ed wrote: "I'm sure its Ecoian But who is the quote attributed to ? a hunt !"

It is from Foucault's Pendulum: https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes...

It's narrative, not dialogue, so it must be Casaubon.

[EdMohs]

most likely
and definitely a Ecoian maxim

thanks for the link
I didn't know about it....

[Traveller]

Thanks for sharing, Ed!