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Grammar Central > Ask Our Grammar "Experts"

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message 51: by Ruth (new)

Ruth | 16546 comments Mod
I'm fine, Prabha. Thanks for asking.

R


message 52: by Prabha (last edited Mar 13, 2008 11:13PM) (new)

Prabha | 70 comments Perfect reply, Ruth! Thank you!


message 53: by Ken, Moderator (last edited Mar 14, 2008 01:50AM) (new)

Ken | 18714 comments Mod
Dick -- Barbara Walraff, who does "Word" columns for The Atlantic, has an archived letter on the confusing issue of "well" and "good" when it comes to how one feels. Here's the quoted text:

Sue Poullette, of Middleton, Wis., writes: “I appreciated your recent Q and A about ‘bad,’ but I would have liked to see ‘good’ versus ‘well’ also talked about. Is ‘He doesn’t feel well’ becoming accepted? I don’t like saying that. I prefer to say ‘good,’ as I was taught.”

Barbara Walraff's reply:

Dear Sue: It depends on what you mean. If you’re focusing on the state of someone’s health, “well” is actually the preferred word: “He doesn’t feel well. He has a cold.” But if you want to include the person’s state of mind, comfort level and so on, you’re quite right that “He doesn’t feel good” is the way to say it.



message 54: by [deleted user] (new)

really? my grandmother would have gone down spittin and hissin on that one
she was against good for how a person felt
it could be used in relationship to what they did
you did a good job yet you performed that task well
hmmm
this has me wondering where the "rules" have come from
things i was so sure about seem to not necessarily be the case
i know there were many spellings
u in colour for example that we were taught as children that now are changed
we lived very close to new brunswick canada and this influenced language
ok folks
a comprehensive grammar that covers all this?
what is the current standard?



message 55: by Ken, Moderator (new)

Ken | 18714 comments Mod
Well (sic) said, Maureen! I like "well" no matter what, and don't see much difference between one's health and one's state (e.g. Massachusetts) of mind, comfort level, "and so on."




message 56: by Dick (new)

Dick I'll bet Shakespeare never used "audiobook."


message 57: by [deleted user] (new)

well he kinda did
they were called play rehersals


message 58: by Eastofoz (new)

Eastofoz Hi Maureen
Got your message and I still can't seem to send you one in reply(!) Thanks for the offer to send the books to you. If I find something on line I'll give you a shout :) That's really nice of you :-)

Have a good weekend!


message 59: by [deleted user] (new)

no prob
it would be awful not to have a way to get inexpensive books

let me know

are you clicking on reply to send back to me?

let me go and send you a message with my reg. email


message 60: by Gilbert (new)

Gilbert | 4 comments I teach third-grade in California. The majority of my students are second language learners. The test we usually use is called the CELDT test. I believe it is an acronym for California Enlgish Language Development Test. You might be able to find a copy of the test online.


message 61: by Prabha (last edited Mar 16, 2008 01:28AM) (new)

Prabha | 70 comments Gilbert is this in reply to my much much earlier post? Thanks! I was just going to cut and paste it here again to check if anyone has any leads. I will check CELDT online tomorrow from work. I am also looking for a suitable Maths and Science test for primary school students (that's ages 7 to 12). Anyone?


message 62: by Debbie, sardonic princess of cheerfulness (new)

Debbie (sardonicprincessofcheerfulness) | 6389 comments Mod
The NZ Ministry of Education (www.minedu.co.nz - I think - or could be .org.nz)has a website through which you can access the Assessment Resource Bank (or ARB). They have some excellent assessment tasks and tests for Maths and Science - Levels 1-3 cater for primary students. I think you have to register though. Let me know how you get on.


message 63: by Prabha (new)

Prabha | 70 comments Thanks Deb, will check it out and keep you posted!


message 64: by Symbol (last edited Mar 18, 2008 05:11PM) (new)

Symbol | 51 comments As far as the good vs. well debate goes, I'm with Maureen on this one. Actually, I wasn't even aware that it was a debate. I realized that many people use good when refering to how they feel, but I didn't think that it was anywhere near gramatically correct.
To my understanding good and well are completely different parts of speech and should not be used interchangablly. Good is and adjective. It should be used to describe a noun. Well, on the other hand, is an adverb and should be used to describe a verb.
Maureen's example, a few posts back, follows this rule.
"you did a good job yet you performed that task well"
The noun, job, is modified by the adjective, good. Whereas the verb to perform is modified by the adverb, well.


message 65: by Prabha (new)

Prabha | 70 comments Deb, the NZ Ministry of Education site is great. Lots of general resources. Unfortunately I can't access the ARB tests, as this requires registration with an NZ educational institution.


message 66: by Kathrynn (new)

Kathrynn | 6 comments In my reading, I have encountered the double contraction, i.e., I'd've. I believe I saw it years ago in the dialogue for "The Grapes of Wrath," but what I'm seeing now isn't in dialogue.

Googled it and there is a discussion about its use. Seems it may be considered acceptable by some now....

Thoughts?


message 67: by Debbie, sardonic princess of cheerfulness (new)

Debbie (sardonicprincessofcheerfulness) | 6389 comments Mod
Sounds like a lettuce Kathrynn....oops, that's endive!!!!
Prabha, glad you found the website...sorry you couldn't access ARB. I will see if I can download/save and email a couple to you.


message 68: by Ken, Moderator (last edited Mar 19, 2008 02:00AM) (new)

Ken | 18714 comments Mod
I like constructions like "I'd've" for dialogue because it's the way people talk (and what they sound like). Beyond that? I'm voting with the Nyetski Party on that one...

And Debbie, do you mean the "e'd've" salad?


message 69: by Debbie, sardonic princess of cheerfulness (new)

Debbie (sardonicprincessofcheerfulness) | 6389 comments Mod
Hahahahahaha!!!


message 70: by Debbie, sardonic princess of cheerfulness (new)

Debbie (sardonicprincessofcheerfulness) | 6389 comments Mod
Looks seriously dodgy to me Richard....circle it in red pen with a large question mark above it and send it back!


message 71: by Ken, Moderator (new)

Ken | 18714 comments Mod
Yes, reprise is a noun, but my dictionary lists reprise as a verb (but with "archaic" in front of it) meaning "to take back; especially, to recover by force."

Definition 2 as a verb (also archaic): "compensate."

Definition 3 as a verb (and NOT archaic -- in fact, one I have heard used in music): "to repeat the performance of (e.g. reprise a song)."

Still, that example sentence you quoted doesn't look right in a modern sense OR in an archaic one.


message 72: by Ken, Moderator (new)

Ken | 18714 comments Mod
Because he's a government worker, perhaps?

(...just a wild guess.)


message 73: by Gilbert (new)

Gilbert | 4 comments I think in speech is the only time you would say it. The whole point of speech is to get out your meaning in the quickest way possible unlike writing. The author is mimicking actual speech.


message 74: by [deleted user] (new)

i reprise the comments of ne and richard

i reprise anyone who disagrees

i reprise? makes no sense in that context

perhaps, the writer's first language is not english?


message 75: by Ken, Moderator (new)

Ken | 18714 comments Mod
Gilbert, I find such usages even more jolting in speech. I don't know. Sometimes I think this noun-to-verb stuff that is rampant in business and govern-accent-on-mental jargon is a wayward attempt to impress us with vocabulary and knowledge. I would say, "Not quite," but I'll recuse myself, considering the damages I do the language on a daily basis here.

Maureen... that's quite a theory, the ELL one!


message 76: by Joanna (new)

Joanna (rowej) | 1 comments Eastofoz: when you're a non-native English speaker you're taught never to put "will" after "when" --of course no one tells you why (!). Then when you get to a proficiency level they change all that and say you can put will after when but again no one tells you why.

This is from a while back, but I have an idea - is it to do with the future tenses? Like, in French it would be correct to say "I will pick you up when you will arrive," but in English we don't use that second "will." We like mixing different tenses together in one sentence for some reason! I guess for a new English speaker it would be easier to say to never use will and when because of this common kind of statement, instead of explaining all the exceptions.


message 77: by Eastofoz (new)

Eastofoz Harmony yes that's a good example but no one has yet to give me a reason....


message 78: by Ken, Moderator (new)

Ken | 18714 comments Mod
Looks around at others while whistling "Shenandoah"....


message 79: by Dick (new)

Dick Similar to the good and well question, is it always correct and necessary to say one feels "badly?" Today I read, "the clouds were gathering blackly." Can that be right?


message 80: by Dick (new)

Dick How about the word "momentary," or more often, "momentarily." It's used, often by sports people of course, to mean "in a moment," but I think it only means "for a moment."

"I'll be back momentarily", then, is wrong, and "he hesitated momentarily" is right.

Right?


message 81: by Ken, Moderator (last edited Apr 01, 2008 04:43PM) (new)

Ken | 18714 comments Mod
What a momentous link! Bartleby the Scrivener has his own site?

Dick, if you found "the clouds were gathering blackly" in a work of fiction, you have to remember that most anything goes in fiction due to poetic license (expensive, but worth buying).

True, black usually travels as an adjective, but think of the King James Version of the Bible quote: "through a glass darkly" (I Corinthians 13:12).

OK, now if dark can double as darkly, is it too far a leap to see black getting jealous?


message 82: by Ruth (last edited Apr 01, 2008 06:31PM) (new)

Ruth | 16546 comments Mod
I always thought "I feel badly" meant there was something wrong with my sense of touch.

And if I am unhappy about something, or about to barf, then "I feel bad" does the trick.

R


message 83: by Jeannette (new)

Jeannette (jeannetteh) | 22 comments I feel badly that I can't remember the proper usage of LIKE and AS. For example, in another thread I wrote: . . . they were always topped with a little frozen veg, as from a package of mixed vegetables. As I first typed it, though, out came LIKE instead of AS. I thought a moment, changed it, then came here for clarification.

Anyone?




message 84: by Ken, Moderator (last edited Apr 02, 2008 04:56PM) (new)

Ken | 18714 comments Mod
I would write: ... they were always topped with a little frozen veg, such as a 10 oz. package of mixed vegetables.


message 85: by Ken, Moderator (new)

Ken | 18714 comments Mod
And what would you say to the Secondary Minister of Burundi? I mean, once you figured out where Burundi is...


message 86: by Jeannette (new)

Jeannette (jeannetteh) | 22 comments Hmmm. Like, as if I really care. Any pizza with veg is no friend of mine. That's, like, gross. They thought that it was real pizza, too! As if!


message 87: by Symbol (new)

Symbol | 51 comments I love vegetarian pizza! Olives, tomatoes, mushrooms, hot petters... yum!


message 88: by Debbie, sardonic princess of cheerfulness (new)

Debbie (sardonicprincessofcheerfulness) | 6389 comments Mod
Hey!! Dr Grammar! How did I end up as a moderator for this group all of a sudden? It was always just you....


message 89: by Prabha (new)

Prabha | 70 comments Deb - Looks like you've been officially bestowed the title of Dr Grammette!!! Congratulations!

I love vegetarian pizza too, Symbol. In fact that's the only type of pizza I eat - I am vegetarian. What you just described in your post is mouth-watering - but I need it topped with oodles of cheese! No frozen veg, thank you!


message 90: by Ken, Moderator (new)

Ken | 18714 comments Mod
Dr. Grammette was drafted. The New Zealand Army to the rescue (for when Dr. Grammar is AWOL).


message 91: by Debbie, sardonic princess of cheerfulness (new)

Debbie (sardonicprincessofcheerfulness) | 6389 comments Mod
What rank GeNEral? (Daddy was a Major).


message 92: by Ken, Moderator (new)

Ken | 18714 comments Mod
Your pick (oh, the power... the power!).

Now, can I ask about the past perfect and why it's so imperfect?


message 93: by Ken, Moderator (new)

Ken | 18714 comments Mod
What happened to all the patients? Used to be we had all manner of words, phrases, clauses, punctuation, tenses, cases, and even gerunds hopping around the waiting room. Now? It's like the Garden of Eden out there, with the participles lying down with the dangles like so many lions and sheep!


message 94: by Debbie, sardonic princess of cheerfulness (new)

Debbie (sardonicprincessofcheerfulness) | 6389 comments Mod
The chooks took over the coop! Cackle, cackle, cackle.....


message 95: by Ken, Moderator (new)

Ken | 18714 comments Mod
According to Michael Smith and Jeffrey Wilhelm in their book, Getting It Right, teachers are taking on too much in trying to teach grammar from soup to nuts to overwhelmed kids. They think, by the end of 8th grade, students should be able to define, identify, and most important, apply, 16 terms in their own writing.

The grammatical concepts to be mastered are (drum roll, please):

The 8 Parts of Speech (duh)
subject and predicate
passive and active
singular and plural
phrase, clause, and sentence
compound
agreement
participle
antecedent


message 96: by Inky (new)

Inky | 249 comments Dear Dr. Grammar:

Am confused. I just read an election story in a newspaper that had fundraising, fund-raising, and fund raising. It paralyzed me and I'm now unable to reach for my dictionary. Which is the correct please?

A reader of newspapers with absent editors,
Inky


message 97: by Ken, Moderator (new)

Ken | 18714 comments Mod
Dear Inky,

Unfortunately, the big newspapers go by their own Manuals of Style and Usage, which don't always agree. Compounding the difficulty, small newspapers adopt manuals of big newspapers of their choice. Worse yet, conventions of journalism often diverge from conventions of academic writing used in schools and colleges. This is where we sing, "Let's call the whole thing off."

So the answer is not really a concrete answer, in this case. The New York Times Manual of Style and Usage votes for "fund-raiser" with a hyphen. I don't have the Chicago Style Manual to compare (does anyone else own a copy?). So that's my answer (the hyphenated one), and I'm sticking with it.

Now if only someone would create a fund-raiser for me...


message 98: by Ruth (new)

Ruth | 16546 comments Mod
I have the Chicago MOS, but it would take me until tomorrow to find anything in there, it's so awkwardly laid out.


message 99: by Ken, Moderator (new)

Ken | 18714 comments Mod
Thanks, Elizabeth. Speaking of updates, I should note that my copy of the New York Times Manual and Stylebook is about 10 years old, so they, too, might have changed by now.

And thanks for the link to AP (the journalist's Bible). Too bad it's pay-per-view.


message 100: by [deleted user] (new)

what!?

now i have an excuse for my lack of knowledge on this topic

i'm frugal


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