Zombies! discussion
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BOTM format disucssion
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Polls can be set up to show who voted for what. The very first BOTM poll was set up like that.Other groups I belong to clearly state: if you are not going to participate in the BOTM please do not vote (or nominate).
Why vote if you have are an individual who does not want to participate?
Granted the group is still new to its update with new moderators and new activity.However change in the BOTM voting/nomination is a goal worth pursuing, in my views of course.
Thank you Teresa for you kind words earlier.
You're quite welcome, Tammy! And Elizabeth: isn't there a way to see how many 'views' a thread is getting? I KNOW we have 25-30 people voting, but we all know there aren't that many participating. I KNOW you can't make them, but I do feel it should be STRONGLY encouraged. We definitely have to do something to keep the BOTM alive and well! Help us!!!
Mod
Yes, but then EVERYONE sees who voted for what, not just Moderators.
Other groups I belong to clearly state: if you are not going to participate in the BOTM please do not..."
We could do that, but as I said above, things change - they probably fully intend to participate, but then life happens.
Mod
You can see "views" listed beside the number of posts. However, this refers to how many times someone accesses the thread, not how many times individuals go and look. So a thread might have 40 views, but it's two people each looking 20 times.
We can strongly encourage all we want - but what's really going to attract people to BOTMs is seeing OTHER people engaged and having fun. And that applies to the whole Zombies! forum, not just the BOTMs. The more people participate, the more fun is being had, the more engaging the discussions - the more other people are attracted and excited about the group.
You can see "views" listed beside the number of posts. However, this refers to how many times someone accesses the thread, not how many times individuals go and look. So a thread might have 40 views, but it's two people each looking 20 times.I mean you no offense but as a moderator of a private group this is incorrect. It shows how many I.p.s viewed that thread.
Mod
I have to say this, I've been trying to hold off but ughElizabeth you are the group moderator but seriously I am offended that you'd say the only reason we have any active members is because of the free thread.
Seriously that is shocking that you'd say that.
Do you know how many people joined our group last month? Or this?
In November of this year 5 people have joined
In October of this year 102 people joined.
Did they join for the free thread? Doubtful
Did the join because this group is usually very active and shows up in the active group threads of the genre? Likely. It is likely that all the small talk that we do, creates interest in the genre/group.
I'm taking at least 24 hours off from the Zombies! Group.
I've been offended enough for now.
My words are taken out of content. I'm out right attacked and hey... nothing is coming from this but more reasons to avoid change.
I am not seeking a single or both moderators to change this (though it would be nice to have their views) I am requesting my fellow group members to change this through an open, honest dialogue and voting (polls).
I need to step away from this now. Before I click quit group.
Mod
I'm not sure, though, why you'd be offended by the suggestion that people stick around - and stuck around - for the free books. I don't see what in that statement is offensive.
Sometimes a break is a good idea. I think there's a lot of heated discussion in this thread for some reason.
Elizabeth wrote: "I'm saying that probably the reason people stuck around - and why I stuck around - while there was no moderation was because of the Free Books thread. I thought that was clear in my post, but perh..."Sorry you edited your post 29 min ago and I didn't quote you prior to your edit.
Mod
Have is the word that I recall but meh.Please take some time to go over this thread comment by comment.
Look at each statement closely.
Then when you reach this thread if you can not see what has happened in this discussion by whom offensive (dismissive and demeaning) where made. Than well just say so and I'll know for sure it's time to leave.
Elizabeth, I ask this part because I want to make sure you know how because it's really important as a moderator to know how... but do you know how to find out what day I joined this group? How active I've been (comments made) and where each and every comment I made can be found?
I'm going to assume you said no ok.
Go to any of the group's pages, even this one and look at the top right hand side. There are words, group home page, bookshelves, discussions, and so on. Look for the word members. Click it. When the page loads it will do so on the members page.
On the members page there is a tab at the top that says all, friends, moderators Under that there is a DROP TAB, where you can select how you want to see them listed Like last online, number of comments, Date Joined, First name and so on.
Find me anyway you wish but the easiest is to sort by comments, other than Randy I'm the highest ranked.
Now, if you were to click on the comments on the far side of my name, it will show you each of my comments, where they were made, and what I've said.
I chose to use myself as the example above but you could learn A Lot by sifting through the members. Like who joined this month and last. Which topics pull their attention and so on.
Wow. Just found this thread. Wow.Tammy -- I may be second in # of comments, but that's mostly because of the free books thread (and just a few snide remarks here and there).
Teresa -- You just got promoted from an Abby to a Floyd. Talk about kicking some butt. :)
Disclaimer -- I wasn't participating in either BOTM reads this month because I have too many free books on my "to read" list that I don't need to buy new ones from authors I haven't read before.
Hmmm. I see I have the other two books by Devan, which I'm sure I picked up free. Maybe I *should* give something back? :)
Mod
1) The BOTM polls were originally set up so that everyone could see who voted for what. Based on feedback from individuals participating in this discussion, individual votes were hidden after the first poll. At this point, I am not inclined to make votes visibility. There is clearly some hostility about people voting but not participating in the discussion. I would like to avoid providing an opportunity for them to be targeted directly by any of that hostility.
It would be great if everyone participated in the discussions. However, I think we should keep in mind that participation in the groups reads/discussions, whether you voted for the book or not, is optional and cannot be dictated/mandated. I think the emphasis should be for those that do participate to focus on their enjoyment/discussion of the book. You can't control other people. How is a BOTM with only 3 participants any different than a 2 person buddy-read? 2 or 3 people can still have a good, illuminating, entertaining discussion about a book, possibility more so than a large group.
We can consider not allowing authors to nominate their own works though I'm not sure that's been a huge issue and as far as I can tell, most of those nominations aren't the ones getting a lot of votes anyway.
As far as participation, I would not equate number of comments to greater level of participation. There are likely a great number of people who use the threads for information, motivation, entertainment, and inspiration but rarely post. That does not mean they are not participating in the site. And as far as I'm concerned, there is no hierarchy of importance. This group has over 2000 members listed, each of them wanting something else, and each of them participating to different levels. We try and provide for all of them equally.
Jim wrote: "How is a BOTM with only 3 participants any different than a 2 person buddy-read? 2 or 3 people can still have a good, illuminating, entertaining discussion about a book, possibility more so than a large group. ..."There really ISN'T a difference, Jim, EXCEPT for the fact that, in a buddy read, the people PARTICIPATING choose the book; in the BOTMs, some 'other' mysterious people vote for a book, then bail. Tammy is absolutely spot-on when she said most of the books we have had chosen FOR us (as opposed to BY us) were not the best. Of course that could happen with a buddy read, too. It just really isn't fair to the active participants, and all I can get from our mods and the newbies is a blasé "What's the big deal about a BOTM anyway?" attitude. It's a big deal to me, though. Call me pathetic, say I have no life, whatever. But I am UBER busy, and this is the only place I can come to have a decent discussion with other book lovers. THAT'S why it is so important to me. I read Elizabeth's comment last night As well - Goodreads has some very active forums, but it's primarily a book reading and recording site, not a chat site. I gotta say, THAT floored me!!!I love the chat aspect, and feel as though I've made some good friends on here. Soooo, if the BOTM is now null & bvoid, and we aren't supposed to chat...well...what ARE we supposed to do? I guess it'll just be buddy reads on the actual book's page instead of ours, which is horrible that the people that really want to read as a community, AS A GROUP, are forced to leave the group's page. I'm still trying to play nice, and so I asked a question on the Undead L.A. thread, but have received no answer. I am not sure if it is possible for Shana to be objective in her modding of the book, towards me, at least. And I strongly suspect that a few of her friends will jump in, because she included a link right to the thread on her blog, which I'm not so sure I feel completely comfortable with in the first place. Isn't there some rule about promoting your work? Anyway, I will be ready on the 6th, but I fear that my answers and opinions may be met with derision and scorn. If so, I will let the group know I will just read it 'solo.' I vote to just cancel ALL future BOTMs. Its clear that no one cares about them (except the nominators and voters, then the people that ACTUALLY have to read them when it comes time to walk the walk). Cancel all BOTMs, and our little band of passionate readers will just do buddy reads. THAT'S what I would do; you can see past BOTM threads and see that no one participates besides those on the Desolation buddy read thread anyway. So lets just forget about them, okay? THAT'S my vote!
~Teresa~
I may be missing something but didn't see where Shana was dismissive toward you Teresa? She just hasn't answered your question yet, and may have other things going on...but as I said, maybe I missed something along the way, since as much as I'd like to, I can't seem to get around to every post. I have lurked here for sometime before actually opening my mouth...or..ummm...keyboard, but I don't understand why the BOTM situation needs to be such a big deal. I do know that you don't want to see it die, but if people aren't picking a book that as an individual, you want to read, then just skip it until one does come up and do buddy reads where we can pick our own book. I didn't participate in the BOTMs before because, well, I thought the chosen book sucked. I finally tried to make myself read Tankbread, even though I pretty much knew from the synopsis that I wasn't going to like it, and then I read the first section assigned and yup...in my opinion only (no disrespect meant to the author or anyone who like it) it sucked. No biggie, it just was not my cup of tea. Now BOTH of the top nominated books this time are books that I've wanted to read so its a win-win. I don't want to feel like its a chore for either me or the moderator though, just a nice discussion like we're having about Desolation. I do very much enjoy reading other's opinions and the bits they pick out of the story, but I can definitely see how it could be a little intimidating.
Oh, I didn't say that she'd been dismissive of me...not yet. And I sincerely hope she isn't. I don't think she will be; she seems like an adult, and, as a reviewer, she's obligated to be objective about each book she reviews, and I suspect she will be able to set any personal feelings about me, as a person, aside in order to discuss a book with a fellow reviewer. We can still read and discuss things we liked, hated, plot devices, etc. no matter how many differences of opinion we may have on OTHER topics. If we all had to feel the same way about everything and have the same views on everything, it wouldn't even be fun to discuss the books. I think it'll be fun, since she is such an active book reviewer. I just think the BOTMs have been pretty crappy so far, and I want them to be better. Maybe I SHOULD have waited another one out before saying anything; I'm sorry I didn't because, so far, its thread has been livelier than any BOTM than any before. Not COMPLETELY convinced that isn't because I spoke up, though. Anyway, those are just my views, and what I plan on doing; no more BOTMs; just buddy reads. I'm COMPLETELY thrilled that this is the book for the last BOTM I'm choosing to participate in, though, because it is awesome so far! So far, so good. I really wanna read Savage Dead, and if this BOTM impresses me, I may end up reading it too. We'll see what happens. And now, I am going to avoid posting anything further on this page. I've spoken as to how I feel; that's what this thread is for, so I've done what it was intended in this thread. I can't say anything else that I haven't said before, so I'm not going to say anything else.
Lana wrote: "...but I don't understand why the BOTM situation needs to be such a big deal."As I understand it, the "big deal" is that 12 people voted for it as BOTM, but nowhere near that many are showing up.
If 12 people voted for it, there should be MORE than 12 involved in the discussion.
I actually didn't vote this month. The only two books I did have that were on the list, I've already read.
By the way, the Undead L.A. 1 BOTM read is another one where I think the discussion should be broken out into six discussion topics. It would make it easier to coordinate the reading and discuss each one, unless the stories have a lot of overlap with each other.
That's a great idea, Randy, although it may be too late. When I set up the reading schedule, I didn't realize the 6 chapters were really 6 short stories (some longer than others), until I started the first one. Perhaps we can message Shay to see what she thinks.
That MAY be a good idea, Netanella. I am debating whether to start the second story tonite, or finish Desolation. I think I will finish Desolation, since that is what I've been reading for the last hour and a half. Its gonna be a little tough for those of us doing Desolation AND Undead L.A. The questions for Undead L.A. aren't due til Wednesday, like Desolation's last section, though, right? The thread says tomorrow, but tomorrow's only the 5th. Anyway, I am enjoying Undead L.A. and Desolation both, but it TOTALLY different ways lol...I'm sure you know what I mean!
Good morning all. I just wanted to pop in and make a quick reply. I left this thread a while back (it was messing with my mojo...I hate bad mojo LOL)Since I turned off notifications, I never knew there was a post questioning my ability to moderate objectively, or that I had broken a rule about promoting the group read. So I wanted to jump back in and make a quick reply. I apologize about any rule breaking. My only intent on posting the link on my blog was to raise awareness and help more people find the group. The content was congruent with my reviews.
My hopes are that you don't still feel this way about my objectivity, I didn't hold onto any negativity. I enjoyed the group read and am waiting for The savage dead questions to be posted so I can partake in that read as well.
Shana, you did an excellent job modding! Don't take ANY of my drivel personally. In case you couldn't tell I had a case of the bad mo-jo going on while ranting! And, sure enough, due to lack of participation, we are only having one BOTM for December, and I wouldn't be surprised if it were dead by January. *However* if you are ever interested in doing a buddy read, just post a message on that thread. I DO love reading with others, but it seems as though others don't like reading in a group setting as much...
Mod
Teresa wrote: "we are only having one BOTM for December, and I wouldn't be surprised if it were dead by January. ..."Hey Teresa, no death here except the undead! ;)
I hope not! I REALLY wanna read 'My Life As a White Trash Zombie,' but the book that's in number one spot looks pretty damn good, too!
I'm interested in everyone's view, but there are limitations to the Goodreads moderating format. For instance, the mods can NOT see who voted for what. It just doesn't work that way. Similarly, we can't set up a poll that only a few people can vote on. The numbers are also low enough compared to our membership that it's very unlikely that the polls are being "stacked" one way or the other. We have between 25-30 people who are voting for each BOTM.
Some more points to keep in mind - this group has only been cleaned up and moderated for a few months. The fact that we had ANY participating members left is probably mostly due to the Free Books thread.
Voting on a BOTM does not guarantee people will participate. It would be nice, but that's not realistic. Sometimes stuff happens, sometimes people are voting for their favourite book because they want other people to read it. Maybe they don't have a copy of that particular book, or maybe it didn't arrive in time for them to read along. Not everyone is interested in actively posting - but I'm sure there are lots of people who are reading what's posted.
As well - Goodreads has some very active forums, but it's primarily a book reading and recording site, not a chat site. So - that means we end up with a lot of lurkers.
Awards would be a fun idea.