July Sci-Fi Book *Please See Posts#1-#14-#26*

[Libby]

Brad wrote: "Shannon wrote: "I thought The Left Hand of Darkness was a well-established sci-fi book. That's certainly where you can always find it. And didn't it win some sci-fi award too? He goes to another pl..."

Well stated Brad - I think that clarifies the theme. So many books fit in multiple genres that it can be hard to make these determinations, but to me, Literary Sci-Fi would be either (1) an established literary author who has published a SciFi work or (2) a SciFi author whose work is so well regarded and that it has crossed over into the genre of general fiction literature. And while “literary” is by definition a broad term, I think we’ve all read enough to know what qualifies as literary as opposed to pulp fiction (which, for the record, I love just as much as the “literary” stuff)

[Brad]

Libby wrote: "And while “literary” is by definition a broad term, I think we’ve all read enough to know what qualifies as literary as opposed to pulp fiction (which, for the record, I love just as much as the “literary” stuff)..."

Me too.

[Susanne]

Hoopla, I didn't notice the Vonnegut on the shelf. Sorry. ;)

Anyway, scrolling through all these very excellent nominations, I heartily second Fahrenheit 451, for what it's worth. That books is so wonderful it haunts me to this day. Would love to read it again.

But then, everything mentioned sounds real exciting!

[Lara Amber]

I would love to read Fahrenheit 451 on my Kindle. That would qualify as "irony" right? Reading it on a device that doesn't burn but is named after a flame and advertised that it will rekindle your love of reading?

Lara Amber

[Brad]

Thought I'd move the list over to page two for easy viewing.

The current members of next week's poll:

Oryx and Crake by Margaret Atwood
Cloud Atlas by David Mitchell
The Sparrow by Mary Doria Russell
Frankenstein by Mary Shelley
Engine Summer by John Crowley
Cat's Cradle by Kurt Vonnegut
Concrete Island by J.G. Ballard
The Yiddish Policeman's Union by Michael Chabon
Out of the Silent Planet by C.S. Lewis
Never Let Me Go by Kazuo Ishiguro
The Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula K. LeGuin
Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury
Gun with Occasional Music by Jonathan Lethem
A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess
The Demolished Man by Alfred Bester

[Lara Amber]

That is so many titles we may need to do two polls, a "semi-finals" round and then the "finals".

Lara Amber

[Brad]

I like the sound of that, Lara. I can make that work too if I simply make the polls shorter. 3 days for each should do it.

[Richard]

Oh, some terrific suggestions. I feel like a kid in a sweet shop (candy store for our transatlantic friends).
I'd like to second :
Gun, with Occasional Music by Jonathan Lethem. A book I think would create diverse reactions from the group. A Marmite book you could say.
A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess about as inventive and stylistic as they come.
The Demolished Man by Alfred Bester. Might be a bit dated now, but its use of novel stylistic methods I think could get it on this list.
Good idea of semi and finals. Makes me feel less guilty for seconding so many books.

[Brad]

I added Bester to the list tentatively. I love his stuff, but I would have excluded him entirely because of his place as a Sci-Fi mainstay but The Demolished Man has influenced many works beyond the world of Sci-Fi. Any objections to adding him?

[Libby]

I like the idea of semi-finals / finals polls w/ short voting times. Just makes it easier when so many books are nominated. Great suggestions! How wonderful to have too many good books to pick from!

[Jeffrey]

I am not sure how The Sparrow transcends science fiction genre but I didn't like the book so I may be prejudiced.

I think you cannot add Bester and exclude other pure science fiction writers.

I have been thinking more about this subject and would add

Frankenstein by Mary Shelley.
20,000 Leagues under the Sea by Jules Verne.

[Brad]

Jeffrey wrote: "I think you cannot add Bester and exclude other pure science fiction writers...."

I tend to agree with you on both Russell and Bester, Jeffrey, but the one difference in Russell's favour here is that she tends to attract many folks who would never pick up another Sci-Fi book -- "maiden aunts" (tip of the hat to Manny), mom-in-laws and snobby boys deep in their Proust.

Verne is a good pick. I hope someone seconds. Frankenstein is already on the list.

[Carolyn]

Jeffrey wrote: "I am not sure how The Sparrow transcends science fiction genre but I didn't like the book so I may be prejudiced..."

I think that in the case of The Sparrow, it is the author that transcends the science fiction genre.

Brad, while I really like the idea of a poll and then a run-off poll (which another one of my groups has been doing for a long while and it works really well), please don't make each poll be for too short of a time period - perhaps 5 days? (instead of 3)?
I ask because I'm not on the computer weekends or nights (usually), so I'd hate to cut it so short that some folks miss the window to vote...

[Brad]

Carolyn wrote: "I ask because I'm not on the computer weekends or nights (usually), so I'd hate to cut it so short that some folks miss the window to vote..."

Okee Doke. I can do that, Carolyn. 5 days it is. But if I'm not able to find a moderator for the discussion I may come hunting you down ;)

[Carolyn]

OK - if I'm online. = )
Going offline now for the weekend - check with you on Monday!

[Brad]

Thanks for the input everyone. I am going to put the first poll up now.

After much thought, and taking Jeffrey's concerns into account, I killed Bester's The Demolished Man, and I seconded The Wind-up Bird Chronicle to replace it with. Just thought y'all'd like to know.

[Robinhj]

You probably can't include it as it barely qualifies as a 'Novella' but a serious writer who wrore a major classic of SF is EM Forster with "The Machine Stops".

BTW, I am still not entirely sure what the exact criteria is here so can someone clarify?

A) Someone who is mostly known for highly respected mainstream literature but has also written one or more 'good' SF books

B) Someone who is mostly known for 'good' mainstream books but has also written a 'classic' SF book

C) Someone who is mostly known for 'good' SF but has written a classic mainstream book

D) Someone who has written at least one classic book in both the mainstream & SF Genres

[Brad]

Definitely A, B to a lesser extent, and the additional criterion of a Sci-Fi author, whatever their quality, who has written a Sci-Fi work that has transcended its genre to become "canonical" -- for lack of a better term (canonical is used here to mean a work that is widely studied, has had a cultural impact beyond the genre or is generally accepted as a "great novel" by the general public). I hope that helps.

[Robinhj]

"written a Sci-Fi work that has transcended its genre to become "canonical" -- for lack of a better term (canonical is used here to mean a work that is widely studied, has had a cultural impact beyond the genre or is generally accepted as a "great novel" by the general public"

Ok so that would be '1984' and 'Frankenstein' & 'Clockwork Orange' (also Verne & Wells) but not any of the others on the shortlist. The non-SF reading "general public" would not have heard of any of the others with the possible exception of 'Fahrenheit 451' and then only if they are film buffs who know their obscure stuff. Also, much as I love some of them, I could not honestly say any of those remaining have had any cultural impact beyond SF.


I am still confused (and I suspect people are bending the rules just to nominate books they want to read):-)

[Robinhj]

Good as .Oryx and Crake is surely The Handmaid's Tale is the Atwood novel that the public is most likely to know. And as a nominee for both Booker & Nebula awards it definitely meets the criteria

[Brad]

Robinhj wrote: "Ok so that would be '1984' and 'Frankenstein' & 'Clockwork Orange' (also Verne & Wells) but not any of the others on the shortlist...."

You forgot to mention The Left Hand of Darkness, Robinhj, which is an important text in Gender Studies and is widely studied in colleges and universities across North America.

Vonnegut's work, as a whole, has had significant cultural influence beyond Sci-Fi, so any of his better works qualify (and Cat's Cradle was the first nominated, so it got the nod). Crowley has been canonized by none other than Harold Bloom, validating the choice of Engine Summer. And as for Oryx and Crake...well, surely the fact that it was short listed for the Booker Prize makes it a strong enough candidate for our list no matter your preference for The Handmaid's Tale.

Also, Robinhj wrote: "I am still confused (and I suspect people are bending the rules just to nominate books they want to read):-)..."

The only person who could possibly be bending the rules is myself, since I made the rules and am in charge of the poll, so your witticism has been noticed by the intended eyes. I am confident, however, that I didn't bend my own rules for any of the books on the list (with the possible exception of The Sparrow, which I believe a convincing enough case can be made for).

Regardless, the list is complete and the voting is on. We'll all simply have to make due with the outcome.

[David]

I've only read 4 of these, but have the following thoughts on two of those that I have read. First, Left Hand of Darkness is a great book, but people might want to read Rocannon's World first. And if their preference is toward science fiction rather than fantasy, and they've never read LeGuin, they might want to read Lathe of Heaven first. Second, I understand there are a lot of chopped up versions of Shelley's Frankenstein out there, used educationally, for the most part.

[Robinhj]

No problem. I think it was the 'General Public' clause that I was struggling with because my vision of 'General Public' is made up mostly of people who think 'Harry Potter' is the pinnacle of literature :-) If I replace 'General Public' with 'mainstream literary critics' it all fits OK. Besides, I am also a big fan of 'The Sparrow' so why would I argue? :-p