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Wuthering Heights
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Wuthering Heights (Classics Group Read Nov-Dec 2013)
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Nov 06, 2013 01:51PM
I read We Have Always Lived in the Castle just before the Thirteenth tail so I am very confused with my literature right now!
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I'm on chapter 8 now, so far so good, except I could do with a family tree!
Yes, definitely! I'm using the cliffnotes to help with the characters and some analysis as well which is aiding my enjoyment
Oh, I could do with something like that, it's not ideal on the kindle...
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It's not that complicated! Have you ever read One Hundred Years of Solitude? There you really needed it!
Shirley wrote: "I'm on chapter 8 now, so far so good, except I could do with a family tree!"I found it hard to keep track of people with the same names in the first half of this book, but it became much clearer by the second half :)
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I found it hard to keep track of people with the same names in the first half of this book, but it beca..."
I'm glad I'm not the only one, one would have been really helpful.
Pink wrote: "Shirley wrote: "I'm on chapter 8 now, so far so good, except I could do with a family tree!"I found it hard to keep track of people with the same names in the first half of this book, but it beca..."
SparkNotes has a character list as well as plot help:
http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/wuthering/
I'll start listening to the librivox version this weekend (thanks Leslie!)
Leslie wrote: "Pink wrote: "Shirley wrote: "I'm on chapter 8 now, so far so good, except I could do with a family tree!"I found it hard to keep track of people with the same names in the first half of this book..."
Thanks for the link, Leslie. I'm now over a third through and can't really find anything to dislike as yet. The characters aren't particularly likeable, but it's well written.
Jenny wrote: "I'll start listening to the librivox version this weekend (thanks Leslie!)"I started it this morning. Although I recognize all the characters, the beginning isn't ringing any bells but I have only listened to the first 2 chapters so far.
I wish I had the patience to listen to a whole book via audiobook. I listened to a few chapters of Middlemarch in a car journey, which worked very well, I just think it's too slow to use them for the whole book.It's perhaps because I don't do anything that had a lot of time sitting round, where I can't read a paperback. I guess I could listen while I'm doing my ironing...
Holly wrote: "I wish I had the patience to listen to a whole book via audiobook. I listened to a few chapters of Middlemarch in a car journey, which worked very well, I just think it's too slow to use them for t..."2 comments re audiobooks being too slow:
1) I sometimes listen at 1.5 or 2 times speed
2) I listen while I do "brainless" stuff like ironing (or chopping vegetables, washing dishes, knitting, etc).
I agree that if my hands and time is free, I prefer to actually read rather than listen.
I think it is interesting that probably the most despicable character (to me), Joseph, is also the religious one. The Bronte' s father was an Anglican curate. One could say they were a religious family. Yet in Charlotte Bronte' s book Jane Eyre, one of the cruelest characters, Mr. Brocklehurst, was also religious. What does that say about how the sisters viewed religion?
That's an interesting take, Kara. There is a great sense of repression in both books, isn't there, but I hadn't thought of it from the religious angle.
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Shirley wrote: "Thanks for the link, Leslie. I'm now over a third through and can't really find anything to dislike as yet. The characters aren't particularly likeable, but it's well written."Yep....I think it's one of those books where I HATED every character, but I guess that's a sign of good writing in itself. So many modern books have such wishy washy (technical term) characters, that I don't believe in or care about.
Pink wrote: "Yep....I think it's one of those books where I HATED every character, but I guess that's a sign of good writing in itself. So many modern books have such wishy washy (technical term) characters, that I don't believe in or care about..."Did you hate Nellie Dean too? Funny thing is I had no memory of her! Guess that it shows it was time I did reread this.
Oh my gosh yes! I think I hated Nellie the most, or was that Joseph, or Catherine, or Heathcliff, or Hindley, or Linton... the list of hateful characters is endless for me! Although I was mostly infuriated by Isabella and the younger Cathy.
I started yesterday, and switched to another audioversion as unfortunately the reader of the librivox version for some irrational reason really annoys me (did you have this too Leslie, or is it just me?). I am now listening to a German audio adaptation read by a bunch of wonderful actors, however switching back and forth makes me wonder how much I will actually be able to judge the book rather than the quality of the audio adaptation. I also realize that anything I thought I remember of this book must have happened in a dream as it has pretty much nothing to do with the actual plot. OH dear memory! So far am really enjoying it actually.
Leslie wrote: "Pink wrote: "Yep....I think it's one of those books where I HATED every character, but I guess that's a sign of good writing in itself. So many modern books have such wishy washy (technical term) c..."She is the person that got moved to the slapping list on the second time through.
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Not with this particular one Jenny, but sometimes I really have to change reader or version if I want to go on!!!!
I didn't like the librivox either. Her accent when speaking as Heathcliff or Joseph was so irritating!!
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I hope this helps anyone who is confused about the family trees, my housemate reminded me of this website as we were given the link last year when we were studying it.
Jenny wrote: "I started yesterday, and switched to another audioversion as unfortunately the reader of the librivox version for some irrational reason really annoys me (did you have this too Leslie, or is it jus..."Overall I didn't find the narrator too annoying but I did have trouble with her voice for Joseph (as Heather mentioned) and thought the voice of young Cathy a bit irritating. My problems with the voice Joseph (and to some extent Heathcliff) is something I struggled with in the print version too, so I don't blame that on the narrator. It is the dialect, which Bronte wrote the characters in. I had this difficulty in Dickens' Hard Times as well...
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http://www.wuthering-heights.co.uk/jo...
I've been sitting on my hands about this one from somewhere about post 50, but...Do you enjoy having to read a work such as this (ie not so old it's Middle English or an unfamiliar language) with text notes alongside? Having to search for a family tree or something to unravel the plot? I'm not sure many true classics need this.
Shakespeare, for instance, which is far earlier, is written so beautifully that you only have to look up the odd word.
If you're studying work for exams or something, then text notes may be helpful for a fuller analysis. But on a first reading? For me it's one of the prime reasons for disliking the book. It's just too complicated and badly constructed. There, I've said it. Now I'll go back into my shell and try to let you all finish it in peace :D
I never really had a problem keeping the people straight. Maybe I just kept reading until I figured it out! Not sure. The first time I read the book, I remember reading Joseph's lines out loud. For some reason, that really helped. Is it the easiest book to read? No, but I think it is worth it. Just my opinion.
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Do you enjoy having to read a work such as this (ie not so old it's Middle English or an unfamiliar language) with..."
I didn't need the family tree or a complex notes apparatus to read that!!! And with Shakespeare I definitly need more help with the langiage!!! ;)
What I didn't like of the novel - which in the whole I liked a lot - were the absurd way of behaving of almost all the charracters within!
But I loved the way they all fit together in a landscape that you WANT to see after reading it. I loved the way they all seemed drawn toward a fate that looked unchangeable and that in the end someone had the courage or the streth to change.
I loved the fact that this is a novel where (view spoiler), I loved the "Romanticism" of the whole story where all seemed moved only, in good or bad, by love and passions - lust, greed, anger, envy as well.
Are these motives enough?
And pleas Jean: never again sit on your hands: I LOVE - at least as much as I loved this book! - to read what you think!!!!
What excellent points you make, Laura. They don't change my view, but they make me think twice, and that's what good discussion is all about.Briefly, why I'm personally not persuaded:
I didn't need a visualisation of the landscape because it was on my doorstep already! (being from Yorkshire) I think the ending you refer to is vastly overshadowed by preceding events. I don't really think anyone behaves in a believable way except Nellie. It's not particularly that you want to slap their faces - we all like "bad" girls or boys. It's that they are unremittingly self-obsessed and emoting all over the place. Yes, the Romanticism element is certainly present. But for many reasons, including these, it's not for me.
I love to hear others' opinions though. It's one of the great things about Goodreads. And I must admit I felt a slight worry at 2 notifications so quickly after mine on the "Wuthering Heights" thread, so thank you so much, Laura, for your kind words :)
This book never fails to provoke an interesting discussion! I remember having trouble keeping track too, but it did get easier. If a book is a bit complex, I go through the plot (in a simplified way) in my head and try to fill in the gaps.
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Briefly, why I'm personally not persuaded:
I didn't n..."
I'll come and see your Yorkshire landscape sooner that you expect Jean! And later than I wanted!!!
I thought character names were a little hard to keep track of at first, which Catherine was which etc. but this soon cleared up with further reading. I also didn't mind Joseph's language and could understand most of his dialect well enough. Jean, I know you've re-read this book numerous times, despite not liking it! I've been meaning to ask what inspired you to re-read it so many times? I simply ask because I really, really hated Wuthering Heights while I was reading it. I moaned and groaned and wanted to throw it across the room, but....the more time that passes since I've read it, the fonder my memories seem to be and the more I consider picking it up again! Now why would I want to do this to myself, with a book that infuriated me so much?!? I have no idea, so wondered if you ever felt that same?
I think that if everyone agreed about what we were reading, it would make for a very boring discussion!Jean, your comments are making me think of things that I love about the book so that I can defend it! I guarantee that I would not have thought as much about what I was reading if not for that! So rather than feeling worried, you should feel like a catalyst.
The characters are not heart-warming. The setting may have a wild kind of beauty to it, but it is certainly not "homey." There are no really redeeming qualities about this book other than the fact that the main characters really loved each other. However, that did not stop them from also hating and hurting each other. Why do people have such a strong reaction to this book, whether positive or negative? Maybe because it is a bit too much like real life?
All this discussion is making me really want to read it!
Kara, its strange that it gets such strong reactions isn't it and certainly makes for more lively discussions. Mine are love/hate! I'll discuss more detail once everyone has finished reading it :)
Please remind when the discussion starts?
Portia wrote: "Please remind when the discussion starts?"Now?! I haven't been talking about plot details as I think some are still reading/ considering starting :) I suppose I could always post more thoughts in spoilers though! Have you read it Portia?
Sorry, Pink:). I've been reading the full thread and kept seeing "when everyone has finished reading" so I wondered if there is a " have read by to avoid spoilers" date. Too many groups, too many formats to remember :P
I think it started a while ago didn't it Portia? Lots of good points have been made. If I wanted to say something more detailed or give examples I'd use spoilers. As it is, I've stuck to a broad sweep.Pink and Kara - Thank you, and I know! I've always said that it's because so many people I know and respect love the book, that I keep thinking I must be mistaken. Though that is a strange reaction; I usually have more confidence in my own judgement.
It's an appealing thought that there must be something of worth there that makes this niggling doubt in the back of my mind. But I think the simple truth is that there have been a great number of excellent dramatisations of it, and in essence it is a very good story. It's the novel itself I feel like throwing across the room, not some of the films/plays etc. And for many people, even if they have actually read the book, what they are left with is the memory of those wonderful films. Maybe this is the root of my earlier doubts. Especially if that was their first encounter with it. Do you relate to that at all, Pink?
And that's why it's so great for me to stand on the sidelines here, because you are all reading it - and reading it right now! :)
Laura - I think you will love it! But try to choose a quietish time to visit the Bronte Parsonage at Haworth if you can, as it gets chock-a-block.
Aha! Found it! Leslie recommended holding spoilers for the first month! Thanks, Pink, I'm clear now!
I've just finished the book. I don't know if I liked it. I'm certainly not in the Jean/Pink camp of despising or wanting to throw the book across the room but I don't think I love it. I'm going to mull it over for the evening and post some thoughts and a review later
My review. PLEASE BE AWARE LOTS OF SPOILERS
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
I think I like it, sorry Jean!
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
I think I like it, sorry Jean!
I didn't spend much time mulling it over, just spat my thoughts out onto a word document and copy and pasted it as a review!
Great review Heather, I "liked" it!
Thanks, Jean. I'm so excited to get some more discussion going as people finish the book.
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