Allegiant
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Who else is boycotting this movie?
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Lynne
(last edited Nov 20, 2013 11:47AM)
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Nov 20, 2013 11:46AM
It's not so much that Tris died, but the way it was done and the writing throughout the whole book. Allegiant was not up to the standard of either of its predecessors. If it had been a brilliant book, even if it had ended in Tris' death, although I still would have been disappointed, I could have dealt with it. But the entire story of Allegiant was poor and that made the ending less acceptable than it might have been.
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And for any of you that think she did the ending just to be "edgy" read this interview, which states that she knew what the ending would be all along.http://www.buzzfeed.com/ariellecalder...
I've read her long-winded explanation. I've never quite understood how the assurance that she planned this ending all along therefore means that it wasn't done to be "shocking" or "edgy." I agree that it wasn't, but saying that she planned it all along doesn't mean anything. I didn't assume she just thought of what the ending was going to be literally when she got to that page on her computer.Anyway, I've published a long-winded rebuttal of my own if you all would like to take a gander (and by gander, I mean hunker down and get comfortable, because it's not short):
http://myallegiantreview.blogspot.com...
Lauren wrote: "I've read her long-winded explanation. I've never quite understood how the assurance that she planned this ending all along therefore means that it wasn't done to be "shocking" or "edgy." I agree..."I'm not saying either way if she planned it or not. But I think people assume that she did plan it last minute because they argue that she made us love these characters only to end the book the way that she did. I'm all for a good discussion and think everyone has their own opinion (looking forward to reading yours). I just thought some of the responses on here were a little much. I loved the first two books and will openly admit I didn't like the last one or the ending. But will that stop me from watching the movie? No. Do I hate the author? No. Do I wish I'd never read the books? Absolutely not. I love Four and Tris and loved the books for the parts that I did enjoy of them.
I don't think I've read or heard anything from people to suggest that they think she came up with the idea at the last minute. They are upset that she created these characters, this story, in this way only to end it like that, but I don't see how that means they think the story must have been going in another direction before she wrote this book. No one has said that, not that I've noticed.Will I go see the movie? Yeah, I probably will. I think I'll be able to erase Allegiant from my mind (not just the ending, but the whole terrible pointless book) enough to watch the story onscreen and enjoy Shailene and Theo act out the good story from the first book.
I don't hate Veronica, either, but I have lost a great deal of respect for her as one writer to another. And again, it's not because of the ending, but the entire plotline of the book altogether. Because I thought she had a really great story with Divergent and I was very impressed that such a young author could come up with such an intriguing and original premise and create such a fascinating world, and I couldn't wait to read this book and see what the whole point of it was, what the larger picture she had kept secret was about. It was quite disappointing to read Allegiant and see that there was no larger picture in mind when she created this wonderful world, that she was all but making it up as she went along and this ridiculous plotline was what she eventually came up with. And if she did actually think of this big picture beforehand, then she has absolutely no idea how to plot out a story effectively because it is full of plot holes and logical problems and continuity errors and comes off as something she made up at the last minute since there is not one kernel of a hint laid out in the previous books like every other series on the planet that has a central story arc spread over several books. So I've lost a little bit of respect for her because this book just proved to me that she, in fact, cannot write, she had no brilliant idea, and she only got lucky with the premise in Divergent.
Do I wish I'd never read the books? Kind of. If I'd known that this was the big story she had in mind and this was what it was all about, I wouldn't have bothered because it's really, truly stupid. So yeah, I do kind of feel like I wasted my time reading these books because the big picture was just that much of a letdown.
Lauren wrote: "I've read her long-winded explanation. I've never quite understood how the assurance that she planned this ending all along therefore means that it wasn't done to be "shocking" or "edgy." I agree..."You've got some good points! And you were right about hunkering also haha! I would be interested to know what Veronica Roth would have to say about some of your conclusions.
I just hope that she and her agents/publishers are aware that a great deal, if not the majority, of the backlash about the ending is because it was just poorly done. I don't want them to think that the poor reception is all because people are whining about not getting a fairy tale ending.
Pms Mrsmoose wrote: "I don't understand why everyone is complaining about Veronica Roth. She finished her story how she wanted to...it is hers to do with as she pleases. Yes, the fans can be upset...but isn't that a si..."I totally agree. The sign of a fantastic book is one that leaves the readers feeling emotions that you normally only experience in real life. I think the plot was amazing because it didn't end like every other YA--scratch that; any other book at all--book does: happily ever after and completely unrealistic. I commend VR on a job exceedingly well done.
I had strong emotions when my grandmother died. So what? Strong emotions do not mean the book must have been fantastic to make you care. Because we care AT ALL is not a sign that the book must have been good. Strong emotions of anger and disappointment are signs that the book was just bad.
Geez you people are over dramatic!
I think the level of our emotions are more owing to the fact that the first two books were so good and the third so different from them that we feel as though it nowhere near lived up to the expectations built after the first two.
Truth be told, the third book in a trilogy is almost always somewhat of a disappointment. Part of it is because the expectations get high after two presumably well-written and exciting books, and the other part is that the third book is where the story is wrapped up and the mysteries are all answered and it's often not as good or interesting as it was built up to be, or it feels rushed, etc.However, I think with the Divergent series the issue is that the first two books were, on a scale of 1 to 10, somewhere around a 9, and then the third book was, to many people, a -50, and primarily for one specific, unforgivable reason.
If anyone wants to check out what, I think, is an exception to the trilogy curse, read the Legend series by Marie Lu. The third book just came out earlier this month and it was phenomenal. (Incidentally, I've seen several reviews for the last book that mention Allegiant and being relieved that this book wasn't a disappointment.)
I'm starting to think that I may want to skip out on it. They might want to turn their marketing campaing towards someone other than the book's audience.
I might watch the movie because I really loved the first book. Who knows, it might be good. I think it will be a little hard to watch because we know what happens to Tris in the end anyway (of Allegiant).
Mital wrote: "I might watch the movie because I really loved the first book. Who knows, it might be good. I think it will be a little hard to watch because we know what happens to Tris in the end anyway (of Alle..."I just don't understand how VR and her publisher thought that the masses would embrace Allegiant. For those who say that the book was good because went against the grain and it got people talking and riled up are fools we got all riled up because VR presented us with crappy book called Allegiant. I am not even remotely interested in seeing the movie and that I put the full blame on VR.
I think the backlash against this book is exaggerated. I know a lot of people who liked it- not to mention, it won the goodreads best book awards with like 40,000 votes . Plenty of people are going to watch the movies. Not to mention, even with the people who are mad about the book, they probably won't be AS upset about it in like....what, three years from now when the Allegiant movie actually comes out? There's tons of hype around the movie on Facebook, Tumblr, and Twitter already, so it will probably do about the same as Twilight and the Hunger Games in the box office. This stuff is kind of formulaic, to be honest.
I was waiting to say that! Yay it won good for Veronica!
I'm glad it won too! Also, another thing with the movie, just look at the cast. Even if you'e not gung-ho about everyone, they've got pull. I mean, Kate Winslet is in it, guys. Kate freakin' Winslet. Shailene Woodley also has a pretty solid fan base. Theo James might be pretty unknown, but he's extremely attractive, so that has its own pull. Let's be real. It's not gonna flop.
@ Memi Agreed.
@ Emily
Are the results for GR choice awards out?
Yup! There was a thing about it on my homepage. They're here: https://www.goodreads.com/choiceaward...
Emily wrote: "Yup! There was a thing about it on my homepage. They're here: https://www.goodreads.com/choiceaward..."Thanks!
Anyways, I'm glad for those who liked and voted for Allegiant.
", even with the people who are mad about the book, they probably won't be AS upset about it in like....what, three years from now when the Allegiant movie actually comes out? "No, they're not going to be upset anymore, but that doesn't mean they will have changed their minds. It just means they just don't care anymore. They're still not going to see it.
I don't think the backlash is exaggerated at all -- it's not just on this one website. It's all over, both elsewhere on the web and in real life. Of course you know plenty of people who liked it -- lots of people liked it. But an equal amount, if not more, HATED it. It's very unusual for a book in this genre to have an equal number of 5-star ratings as 1-star ratings, let alone MORE 1-star ratings. In fact, that literally never happens. It's pretty unprecedented.
Now, will all this hatred spell doom for the movie? I doubt it. Will every one of these people who says they aren't going to see the movie really end up not seeing it? I doubt it.
If you think this movie is going to mimic Twilight or The Hunger Games at the box office, though, you are out of your ever-loving, clodhopping mind. It was NEVER going to do that, with or without the Allegiant backlash. They were predicting a modest success with about a $130-135M TOTAL gross. (Interestingly, since Allegiant came out the analysts lowered their predictions by a few million or so.) Hunger Games, by contrast, earned like $150M in the first weekend alone, so, no.
You are right, this stuff is formulaic. These kinds of franchises are dependent on fans who will love a series, and anything to do with it, no matter how awful, critically speaking, any individual part of it is. These are the fans you have to count on to spread the word to non-fans to get into the books and watch the movie. They are the bread and butter for lifting the movie from something that only fans who were already into the books will bother to see, to something that the general audience will try. These are the very same fans who were pissed off by Allegiant the most.
Lauren wrote: "You are right, this stuff is formulaic. These kinds of franchises are dependent on fans who will love a series, and anything to do with it, no matter how awful, critically speaking, any individual part of it is. These are the fans you have to count on to spread the word to non-fans to get into the books and watch the movie. They are the bread and butter for lifting the movie from something that only fans who were already into the books will bother to see, to something that the general audience will try. These are the very same fans who were pissed off by Allegiant the most. "I agree. I don't wan to spend my money on the movie. Besides, Roth has created a huge controversy and turned many fans against her. The official page of Divergent on Facebook is a testimony to that.
Exactly. None of this means the movie will flop. I think the original potential was strong enough that even the decent percentage of fans who are now turned off by the whole thing won't affect it too much. Of course, that assumes that the only people who are not watching it due to Allegiant are only the existing fans who didn't like the book. There is also the very real possibility that those newbies who are just starting to hear about the series, maybe from seeing the trailer at Catching Fire, will look up the books, find out how it ends (because it's not exactly a secret anymore) and decide to forget about it. This is already happening...
Lauren wrote: "", even with the people who are mad about the book, they probably won't be AS upset about it in like....what, three years from now when the Allegiant movie actually comes out? "No, they're not go..."
Well, all I'm saying is that there's still tons of hype on Tumblr and Facebook (and I'll assume on Twitter as well), which are big indicators for this audience. Whenever Summit releases anything to do with Divergent, whether it be a new trailer, poster, still, whatever, the YA blogs on tumblr explode with gifs and quotes and all that, so there are obviously still a lot of fans who are really excited about the movie.
Besides that, Summit's done a good job marketing this movie. They utilize social media well, and they got the trailer in Catching Fire. They clearly know their audience. And again, I think the cast is a big pull. There's some major star-power behind this movie. Shailene Woodley's already pretty big with this audience, and besides Divergent, she landed one of the lead roles in the Fault in Our Stars- opposite the actor playing Caleb in Divergent, no less, so that creates a huge overlap with TFiOS and Divergent movies.
Ultimately, whatever happens is going to happen. I just think it's impractical to think there's going to be some sort of Allegiant-bred boycott. I'm sure some people won't see it, but I doubt it will be enough to have any real impact on the movie. You also have to consider that sometimes people just want something to be excited about. Harry Potter's long done, Twilight's done, and we're moving on to the last Hunger Games (even if it is split). People want to get into the next big thing, and it's Divergent.
I don't think the Tumblr/Facebook/Twitter crowd is a good indicator of the movie's overall success. Those cater to a particular subset of the audience -- the preexisting fandom. The movie was never going to succeed on money from the fandom alone; it needs to appeal to a general audience if it hopes to pull in real numbers. The studios have faith that this movie has general audience appeal -- and truly, it does -- and that's why they have such high hopes for it, and why the marketing and promotion for the movie is much better than other YA movie wannabes. They do believe this movie has great crossover appeal, and they're willing to put up the bucks to get the word out to as many of that general audience as they can. However, I wouldn't look to the franchise's social media pages for a good indication of how well the movie is going to do overall. The success, again, depends on general audience attendance. The general audience is not trolling the Divergent page on Facebook or Tumblr.
Also, not seeing the movie because of Allegiant isn't in the name of spite or a boycott. People who say they don't want to see it anymore say so because the book has destroyed their enjoyment of the series and they can't bear to experience any of it again knowing how miserably it all ends.
NO! Why boycott the movie? That's stupid! Anyone that's got a problem with the answer should read Veronica Roth's reasoning for it on her website. It makes PERFECT sense. And after reading it I have a new found respect for her and the stories itself. It was a sad ending, yea, but when you look at it, it is beautifully written. So why are you gonna say you're gonna boycott a MOVIE? What good is that gonna do? And who are you foolin? We all know that you're all gonna see it anyways.
The movie's success or failure will depend on several things. Firstly, the movie itself will need to work as a movie. It will need to be well plotted, well acted and well directed.Secondly, it will need to be a close interpretation of the book to please those fans who do go and see it.
Thirdly, it will have to gain a specifically movie-related audience, as I don't know if the fanbase of Divergent (especially now) is big enough to make it a success on its own.
Even if all these things do come together, that still doesn't mean it will earn enough money to justify a sequel. It will, at the very least, have to double its money to justify that. And to be honest, considering how many of its book fanbase has been alienated by the ending of Allegiant, I can't see that happening. Other book-to-movie translations have failed in this regard. The sequel to City of Bones was shelved (last I heard, anyway) because the movie didn't do so well. The Host's movie failed. I don't think Beautiful Creatures made enough to justify the other books in the series being made into movies either. Success is not a foregone conclusion for a book-to-movie series.
Lauren wrote: "I don't think the Tumblr/Facebook/Twitter crowd is a good indicator of the movie's overall success. Those cater to a particular subset of the audience -- the preexisting fandom. The movie was nev..."I'm confused- I thought the whole argument of this thread was that Allegiant is going to make preexisting fans not want to see the movie? So why wouldn't Tumblr/Facebook/Twitter be a good indicator of that? I'm saying that I don't think the preexisting fandom was all that turned off by Allegiant, because they're still posting a lot about the movie and it was still voted best YA novel on this website. Allegiant will have no impact whatsoever on the general audience, because they didn't read it. I thought we were talking about the preexisting fans, because I don't think there's any doubt that it has general appeal. The trailer was seen by millions and millions of people in the Hunger Games and this movie is a great fit for that audience, it's got a flashy cast, and besides all that, it doesn't really have a ton of competition in March anyway. Also, the media is constantly calling it 'The next Hunger Games' and that will draw a general audience. A lot of people just like to see the next big thing.
Paigetwo *Caitlyn* wrote: "NO! Why boycott the movie? That's stupid! Anyone that's got a problem with the answer should read Veronica Roth's reasoning for it on her website. It makes PERFECT sense. And after reading it I..."I disagree. I read what VR said, but I didn't think the natural extension of the book was Tris's death, which it should have been if this vision of the ending was the correct one for Allegiant. It felt forced. While I understand Veronica's reasoning to make it go that way, I think she failed to deliver it in a convincing manner.
Lynne wrote: "Paigetwo *Caitlyn* wrote: "NO! Why boycott the movie? That's stupid! Anyone that's got a problem with the answer should read Veronica Roth's reasoning for it on her website. It makes PERFECT sen..."I got what she was trying to do. And she executed it perfectly.
I guess we'll agree to disagree then. As far as I'm concerned, Allegiant was a poorly written book.
And yet the point still remains: Why boycott the movie?
Emily wrote: "Lauren wrote: "I don't think the Tumblr/Facebook/Twitter crowd is a good indicator of the movie's overall success. Those cater to a particular subset of the audience -- the preexisting fandom. Th..."Why wouldn't Tumblr, etc., be a good indicator? Because that in itself is a very small subset of the fandom, which in turn is a small portion of the audience they need to get in order for this to be a real success. A good percentage of the people who are already "fans" of this series have absolutely nothing to do with those particular pages -- myself included. They love the books, rave about them, but they do not care one iota about posting on Divergent's Facebook page. Those are the crazy fans and/or the core target audience (teenage girls).
Yes, Allegiant can have an impact on the general audience. People who never heard of the series, or heard about it vaguely but never bothered to read it, will see the marketing, see the trailers, get their interest piqued. They'll look into reading the books, look them up, see how the story ultimately ends and decide they don't want to bother if that's what happens to the hero at the end.
This is already starting to happen.
I have already seen tons of reviews and comments all over where these very kinds of people have done just that -- they heard about the series or saw the trailer at Catching Fire and then changed their minds about getting into it when they looked it up and read about what happens at the end of the third book. They say they don't want to bother with a story that ends like that.
And it's not just that. This franchise LIVES by word of mouth. It's the whole reason the series became so popular in the first place -- it was already popular before it was even officially published and circulated because Veronica and her team successfully marketed it online, to schools, provided ARCs to all kinds of outlets, etc. And word of mouth from the existing fans is what is going to help carry over to the general audience and get the general audience interested in the movie. Yes, they see the marketing, they see the trailers, but they don't know if this series is any GOOD. We live in a world where people have to go online and check out reviews for anything before they decide to buy it -- they do the same thing with movies. If the trailer interests them, they'll go on the Internet and look up information about the series, maybe even decide to buy the first book, and see what the fans -- the people who already know all about it -- have to say about this whole thing. And what's going to happen when all they hear from the existing fans is how much the last book sucked and it ruined the whole series and they wish they had never read the books to begin with? Now, I know perfectly well that not everyone hated the book, not at all, but just as many people did hate it. And when the total audience, between the two, is so big, that's a lot of *bad* word of mouth going around.
By the way, calling it "the next Hunger Games" is what's going to doom it. People don't like copycats. A lot of general audience people -- before all this Allegiant stuff happened -- were already writing off the movie specifically because it looked to them like a Hunger Games clone and people were calling it "another" Hunger Games. Personally, I think the marketing would do well to stay away from any Hunger Games comparisons.
I'm not the author of this thread, so I didn't come here to convince people that they shouldn't see the movie, merely to talk about the fact that Allegiant made my enthusiasm for the movie version of Divergent plummet. I may still see it, as I liked the book. However, knowing it goes in a way that tarnishes the series for me (and I'm talking in terms of the whole storyline of Allegiant, not just the ending) does affect my desire to see the movie. I'm not sure if it's worth it, although I'm not sure it will earn enough money to justify sequels being made anyway, so it may be a moot point.
Everyone is mad cause they can't handle Tris' death. Ever heard of a hero before? Or a martyr? You'll should be proud of her cause she finally grew up and stopped acting like a baby and did what her parents did for her.
Lynne wrote: "Paigetwo *Caitlyn* wrote: "NO! Why boycott the movie? That's stupid! Anyone that's got a problem with the answer should read Veronica Roth's reasoning for it on her website. It makes PERFECT sen..."Agree, Lynne. I don't have a problem with the idea she was going for, but it was not at all convincing. The whole thing was too contrived just to force the idea, and therefore it felt very much like it was done just for the sake of making a thematic point rather than being a natural part of the storyline.
Paigetwo *Caitlyn* wrote: "Everyone is mad cause they can't handle Tris' death. Ever heard of a hero before? Or a martyr? You'll should be proud of her cause she finally grew up and stopped acting like a baby and did what..."Check this out: http://myallegiantreview.blogspot.com...
Paigetwo *Caitlyn* wrote: "Everyone is mad cause they can't handle Tris' death. Ever heard of a hero before? Or a martyr? You'll should be proud of her cause she finally grew up and stopped acting like a baby and did what her parents did for her. "Everyone?
That's a pretty general statement.
I can tell you right now that there's a fair number of people who disliked this book wayy before they even knew what the ending was. So many of the story elements (plot, character, setting, explanations) were developed terribly.
The only real tragedy of Tris's death (in my opinion) is that it overshadows the other major problems with this novel.
And honestly, I find the notion that Tris had to die for someone because her parents died for her a little troubling to say the least.
This book was a piece of trash. I felt like Tris's death was just meaningless and stupid, like Roth wanted to give us a shocking ending, so she killed the main character. What WOULD have been a fitting ending is if Caleb had actually redeemed himself. I am never reading another one of her books.She shot herself in the foot with this. It sends a signal that she isn't afraid to kill her main characters, and no reader wants to read from an author that will do that.
I agree that her death was a meaningless one, and Veronica Roth should've made it better. If she wanted Tris to die then at least a brave death would've made the story better or anything besides what is there now. I will still read some of her books if I like it, but I won't go against her or anything. The only thing I blame her for is that she wrote 2 very well written books and the third one didn't end well and it wasn't satisfying at all.
I agree. *sobs.* and I loved the first two SO MUCH.
I loved the first 2 books, and this last one was a let down. I want to skip the movies, but I think I'm going to end up watching it anyway because i can't help myself.
Same...I can't help myself so I will just watch the movies.
I agree with you guys. I bought an e copy of allegiant, but when my friends started saying they hated it, I couldn't read it without knowing why. I HATE bad endings, and to me it wasn't worth reading it if I knew it was going to be bad. So, I'm not reading it. I don't want to ruin the story that I read so far. I'm just going to pretend it all ended with Insurgent. I won't be seeing the movies either. I think that if Ms. Roth was smart, she wouldn't have started her first successful series with a potentially disastrous ending, no matter how "true to herself" or controversial she was trying to be. You will lose readers that way. Killing off your main protagonist in the end is definitely a way to lose readers. I don't care if it was a 'fitting death' or had to happen. You're still going to lose people after that.
Isn't "betraying her entire fanbase" a little extreme, especially considering that some of us... loved it? I mean of course I'm sad that Tris died -- how could I not be? I loved loved loved her character -- but personally, I really enjoyed the ending; it takes a lot for an author to kill off a main character, and I really appreciate and respect Roth for doing what she did. Plus I don't view it as senseless; she did it to save Caleb.Also: Roth actually said in a blog post that she did not kill Tris for a "shock factor" or to upset anyone; she did it because she felt as though it was true to Tris's character and that it was in her plan all along.
I know that she didn't do it for "shock value." I knew that as I was reading it, and I know that now. That's the sad part. It comes off that way anyway, because there was no real story point for it the way she wrote it. For something she planned out from the very beginning, it was a cheap, clumsy, slapped-together mess.
I think it was more the case that she was determined to have it go that way, but didn't make sure the story went that way organically. She created elements without checking that they would support that end to the story and so, when we arrived at that scene, it seemed forced.
Lynne wrote: "I think it was more the case that she was determined to have it go that way, but didn't make sure the story went that way organically. She created elements without checking that they would support ..."You said it best!
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