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Go Set a Watchman
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Group Read - Go Set a Watchman Chapters 17-19 to the end Spoilers Welcome
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Chapter 17Atticus and Jean Louise go to his office after a moment when Jean Louise realized they are standing where Jem died on the street. Atticus is kind, but asks when she will let it go. Up to the point based on her reminiscing it seemed she had come to terms with it.
Atticus explains his position. JL is so disappointed in him. Feels in no mans land and that he lied to her by leading her to not be racist as a child. Atticus isn't clear if he only worries about states rights. Is he a racist?
No matter how calmly and quietly Atticus is, JL is very passionate and righteous and she is leaving Maycomb and Atticus behind. She hates him and Maycomb.
Part seven
Chapter 18
Angrily packing, Jean Louise plans to leave forever. Alexandra tells JL "no Finch runs", then uncle Jack arrives and violently smacks her in the face while at the car trunk to get her attention and stop her leaving.
Deep conversation about how she is finally becoming a separate person and reducing Atticus to a person not a God. Courage to let her do that. She's an ordinary bigot.
Go get Atticus. She can't, she will. Come back to Maycomb. The time your friends need you is when they are wrong. The south needs her.
What about Hank. Let him down easy. Not her kind. BUT, not that he is trash. Jack was in love with her mom. Loves Scout and Jem as his "dream children." Of course Atticus knows.
Chapter 19Jean Louise tells Hank she'll see him at dinner tonight. She can only be his dear friend, (but that is something)
Atticus is ready to go. She is shocked that he is so calm. Can't beat him can't join him. He is deeply proud of her for standing up for what she believes in and standing up to him. He can laugh at anything anybody calls him as long as it isn't true.
As JL tells Atticus that she loves him a lot he smiles. She gets in the car feeling as if someone has walked over her grave. "probably Jem on an idiotic errand" she is careful she does doesn't hit her head on the car door while
Welcoming Atticus to the human race. And herself to awareness.
So bittersweet an ending. My respect for Scout remained intact, my respect for the uncle, Dr Finch only grew, and maybe I understood Atticus just a bit better.
It was bittersweet.Well said Barry.
Barry wrote: "So bittersweet an ending. My respect for Scout remained intact, my respect for the uncle, Dr Finch only grew, and maybe I understood Atticus just a bit better."
Barry, you've said it perfectly. Although, it still is hard to reconcile this Atticus with the Atticus I thought I knew from TKAM.
Dawn wrote: "Barry, you've said it perfectly. Although, it still is hard to reconcile this Atticus with the Atticus I thought I knew from TKAM."Perhaps because this book never should have seen the light of day.
Barry: that is likely; too late now of course. I think perhaps the ensuing conversation is worthwhile. Barry wrote: "Dawn wrote: "Barry, you've said it perfectly. Although, it still is hard to reconcile this Atticus with the Atticus I thought I knew from TKAM."
Perhaps because this book never should have seen the light of day.."
Barry wrote: "Perhaps because this book never should have seen the light of day. ..."
Yes, I can't help but think Harper Lee had her reasons for not sending it to the publisher. Maybe she anticipated the kerfuffle it would cause, and maybe she didn't want us to see that aspect of Atticus and Scout.
It was a bit of a fairy tale ending, with Atticus once more the beyond wise figure who took all that Jean Louise threw at him and wound up being proud of her for standing up to him. She did say some hateful things.
Ann wrote: "Barry: that is likely; too late now of course. I think perhaps the ensuing conversation is worthwhile. ..."Yes, if this sparks some straight talk about racism in this country it will be well worth it. It's a myth that we are in a "post racial" society with the election of a black President, and the quicker we can tell the truth about that the better off we'll be going forward.
Straight talk about racism? I am having a harder time than ever keeping up relationships with people across the political spectrum because attitudes, if anything, have been hardening.
Sadly too true, Barry.Barry wrote: "Straight talk about racism? I am having a harder time than ever keeping up relationships with people across the political spectrum because attitudes, if anything, have been hardening."
Barry wrote: "Straight talk about racism? I am having a harder time than ever keeping up relationships with people across the political spectrum because attitudes, if anything, have been hardening."Yeah, true enough. I just don't see another way forward.
Does anyone want to talk about why Jean Louise herself had an initial antagonistic reaction to the Supreme Court decision? It was presumably Brown v. The Board of Education of Topeka (1954). She said to Atticus that she at first didn't like the Supreme Court overturning states' rights for the rights of a minority. What struck me about that argument was that in 1860 the African American slave population of Alabama was 45% of the population. That's not a small minority. That's a minority that could easily become the majority over time. So I went to look at Alabama demographics between 1900-1950 which I found at http://www.archives.alabama.gov/timel... . I saw that the African American population stayed fairly steady, but the White population increased. So that eventually in the 1950 Census there were more than a million more Whites than Blacks. I had imagined that there would be fewer African Americans in Alabama as a result of the Great Migration, but that didn't really seem to have happened. In any case, why do you think that Jean Louise was so attached to states' rights? It was astonishing to me when she was so independent minded about nearly everything else.
Interesting information about the AA slave population.As to Scout, it may be simplistic, but it seems to me the states right argument would appeal to the part of Scout that IS independent... she would object to an outside authority/entity telling her and her neighbors what they can and can't do, taking away their right to decide for themselves.
Shomeret: I was taken aback a bit by the attitude Jean Louise (and Atticus) exhibited towards states rights myself. It did seem out of character looking at the details of Brown v the Board of Education Topeka. It may well be the principle as Carol suggests as an explanation rather than the content of the ruling.It does raise questions and in particular to me that the ruling content or name or any detail at all was left out of the narrative. We are left to wonder and resort to research to assume the Brown v Board of Education ruling was what she referred to. That seems like something that would have been edited in in some way later had the book been published when written.
I just finished. I do agree with Barry I don't think it was meant to see the light of day. Parts were enjoyable, parts were hard to read, parts were just plain boring. I really can't decide if I'm glad I read it.
Merrilee: I understand your feelings about deciding to read the book and now wondering if you were glad you had. My curiosity wouldnt let me skip it as Harper Lee has fascinated me for a while, but I don't think she would really be glad it was published. Since it was, reading it seemed important. It has raised my awareness so I consider that is a plus. Merrilee in AZ wrote: "I just finished. I do agree with Barry I don't think it was meant to see the light of day. Parts were enjoyable, parts were hard to read, parts were just plain boring. I really can't decide if I'm glad Iread it..."
I agree with you, Merrilee. Glad you read it and decided to post about it with us.Merrilee in AZ wrote: "I just finished. I do agree with Barry I don't think it was meant to see the light of day. Parts were enjoyable, parts were hard to read, parts were just plain boring. I really can't decide if I..."
Merrilee in AZ wrote: "I just finished. I do agree with Barry I don't think it was meant to see the light of day. Parts were enjoyable, parts were hard to read, parts were just plain boring. I really can't decide if I..."Yes, same here. I finished it yesterday and I am still conflicted. Liked parts, skimmed the boring parts. I definitely think it would not have worked as a debut novel as it was meant to be. Who would have cared about Jem or Calpurnia, known who Dill was, or had any refrence to a trail when she was young and her father defended a black man?
Hi Blueberry! Good to see you and hear your thoughts on the book. I see your points on the references to Dill the trial and even Jem if this was our first introduction instead of from TKAM
I think that your comments speak to the question of just how "finished" Go Set a Watchman really was, and what version of a draft perhaps.
Taken together the two books provide more detail to the first published and for that I am glad I read it.
Don't be a stranger!
Thank you, Ann :)
Interesting points, Blueberry. At the end of the day I do wonder about the decision to publish this novel, but I suspect over time it will become a footnote to a still-great novel, TKAM.Blueberry wrote: "Merrilee in AZ wrote: "I just finished. I do agree with Barry I don't think it was meant to see the light of day. Parts were enjoyable, parts were hard to read, parts were just plain boring. I r..."
Barry wrote: "Dawn wrote: "Barry, you've said it perfectly. Although, it still is hard to reconcile this Atticus with the Atticus I thought I knew from TKAM."Perhaps because this book never should have seen the..."
amen to that. :)
Merrilee in AZ wrote: "I just finished. I do agree with Barry I don't think it was meant to see the light of day. Parts were enjoyable, parts were hard to read, parts were just plain boring. I really can't decide if I'm ..."my feelings exactly, merrilee. i thought parts were pretty boring and skimmed through a large chunk of the book. thoughts part of it were very "preachy" and to me, boring.
I suppose they couldn't really edit the book without bringing in a ghost or co-writer, and it was possibly produced more "as is" (And as is meant UNFINISHED AND NOT TO BE PUBLISHED per Harper Lee herself when she was still completely aware of what was going on and her sister was there to protect her rights.)
The first to post please briefly summarize to guide the discussion.
What did you think? There will also be an overall impressions thread!