Making Connections discussion
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Reviews...Ratings.....Incomplete...What do you Suggest?
Tana, I am having this issue NOW! I did finish it, but my emotions are so jumbled up. I can't seem to nail a final rating on the book. I connected more with the secondary characters. The writing style was addictive, but I didn't like the plot. It's like for every positive, there's a negative....There's been a few cases with ARRs that are DNF'ed. Those readers contacted the author and honestly told them they couldn't keep reading.
I personally don't think it's wrong to mark a book as incomplete/DNF in a review. I've done that a couple of times and justified my reason, though I did not attach a star rating. It wouldn't be completely fair to the author since I didn't finish the book.
I think I would mark it as DNF, review and rate it, as normal.Though, I admit I would try harder than usual, with books I read otherwise, perhaps delay the review for a while, if there's a chance I'd get into it. Probably.
But as general idea, I would do what I would normally do.
Mod
I mark books under Did Not Finish but I haven't done so with a fellow Indie author. Most I marked as did not finish are books that are authors I feel can take the criticism. However I do try to write both the good and bad parts I liked about a book but if I failed to finish it chances are my good comments will be little if any.
:)Tana wrote: "This is a question that was asked by a member in another group I mod in and I am really interested in what everyone thinks.
I never set up a rule around this issue so I would love to hear what oth..."
Some wise person once told me to write reviews with kindness. This (I think) is easier said than done but it sets the bar, so to speak.
I try to mix the good with the bad. I liked this part and how it was done, but this part I wasn't to sure about. I did like the writing style. The Characters were a little to aloof/cold/etc. If I can't finish the book, I state that I couldn't finish the book and I give reasons. It's my opinion of the book. FWIW not everyone is going to LOVE the book, that's why their are reviews to help weed things out.I just got hate mail from an author who didn't think his book deserved a 3 stars and the I wouldn't know good writing if it slapped me on the face. I take it in stride, not every book is for EVERYONE.
Amy, I'm so sorry that person sent you hate-mail. Obviously, not a good Goodreads member if a member at all.
Lisa Jane wrote: ":)Tana wrote: "This is a question that was asked by a member in another group I mod in and I am really interested in what everyone thinks.
I never set up a rule around this issue so I would love..."
I'd like to say I give every book a fair reading, even if I'm not enjoying it. I've given a couple of one or two star reviews, but generally because the book should have been better edited or proof read. Spelling errors (even if they are typos) drag me out of a story. So do misused words and phrases. When I give a low rating, I always say why, and poor use of the language--except, of course, in dialogue where it can be used to identify a specific character)is normally the reason. In narrative, however, I find it inexcusable.
I guess it would matter why you don't think you can finish the book. If you can't finish the book because it is incredibly portly written (bad grammar, bad spelling, obvious plot holes and inconsistencies) then I would say you should do your best to finish it and leave a rating. Honestly, as harsh as it is to say, you're not doing anyone a favor by not at least saying what's wrong with it. You don't have to be harsh about it. Just be honest. Chances are the author will want to know that it has so many blatant issues and potential readers will definitely want to know.If it is more of an issue of it maybe being a good book, but not necessarily melding with your personal tastes then I think that might be a better situation to just say that you did not finish it. These are obviously just my opinions on the subject though.
Mod
Tana wrote: "Wow Amy sorry to hear someone did that isn't 3 stars you liked the book?"This is perhaps the thing that reviewers fear the most: an author who takes it personally when you dont like their book to the point where they will attack you personally over the internet.
I know a lot of time and emotional energy is spent by an author in writing a book, but time and energy is spent by the reader to complete the book and write what I hope is a decent and well constructed review.
One side attacking the other (vitriol starting from either side) is sad, painful, possibly illegal. An author attacking a reader who has written a review (probably for free) over something that is frequently positive - or at least not negative - does little to change the reviewer's mind about the book and much to reinforce why some authors should never be published in the first place
Gosh, I'm having this issue now! Seriously, I can't bring myself to finish the book, I know I can't. And I'm not even halfway yet! :(
Any suggestions?
Tana wrote: "Wow Amy sorry to hear someone did that isn't 3 stars you liked the book?"Yeah 3 stars I liked the book. But that wasn't good enough. :-(
νιηηy wrote: "Gosh, I'm having this issue now!
Seriously, I can't bring myself to finish the book, I know I can't. And I'm not even halfway yet! :(
Any suggestions?"
Could you put the book down for awhile and focus on another book for awhile. Sometimes I have to do this.
I had an author get hateful for my 3 star review. It makes no sense to me.I rate books I DNF. Why? Because I did read it. I try to give books a fair shake, so I read more than one chapter. I give a book about 25-30% to get better. If not, it gets DNF'd and rated. I have too many books to read to keep giving a book a chance.
I get absolutely deluged with book review requests because of my Amazon ranking and the websites I run. As it is I have to pick and choose what I get and my house has piles of books on my to-do list. I do my very best to get all the way through each book. I figure if someone went through all the time to write and publish it, and if I agreed based on its synopsis to give it a try, I should do my very best.That being said, there are definitely a few times out of those thousands that I just can't do it. This example was a for-pleasure-reading book, but I was listening to a Dean Koontz audiobook. He writes horror. I would read it driving to and from work. One day it got so scary that I had to pull over to stop shaking. I just couldn't listen to it any more. If that had been a for-review book I'd have reviewed it up until that point and explained why I had to stop. As long as I write my review fully and coherently, readers can find the details useful. Someone who adores scary horror might have thought that was the perfect sign of a book they wanted!
Lisa
I've had a couple people put up DNF reviews of my book. To be quite honest, it didn't bother me at all, as both of them made it clear why they didn't finish. My book has a substantial amount of graphic violence. That really turns some people off. Even if they initially think it won't bother them, there could be a scene that is just too much, and goodbye. I've gotten some very positive reviews as well. I'd like to think that the mixture of "this is awesome" and "I couldn't go on" will make it easier for future potential readers to decide whether or not they want to pick it up. Some people might read one of my DNF reviews and say "So gory that this person had to quit? Interesting." Though I do agree with an earlier poster, if you DNF, maybe don't give it a rating. Unless the book is so mechanically messed up that it's unreadable. In that case slap a 1 on it, just my opinion.
Reed -I think an important thing for an author to take away from those "it upset me" votes is to update their marketing material. The marketing material should make clear those types of things, so that potential readers can be aware. That way you both draw in your target audience and you help shield from the negative reviews from people who are surprised after buying.
I.e. I see people who down-vote erotic romance because the book's blurb didn't make it clear that there was graphic sex in the novel. That's one of those things that readers should know about beforehand. Some love it, some don't, but either way it's a decision point.
Lisa
Lisa wrote: "Reed -I think an important thing for an author to take away from those "it upset me" votes is to update their marketing material. The marketing material should make clear those types of things, s..."
It originally had a violence warning, but not a stern one. I have since updated it. It now has a big, bold "Frequent graphic violence 18+" tag in my blurb. Hopefully, my work won't traumatize any more readers. It is my very first book, so for future projects I will always make sure the warnings are more clear. I certainly can't get mad at people for flaming my book. I've written some very pointed reviews myself.
Dear Reed -I always strive to write a fair, complete review so that potential buyers know if it's worth their time and money. I.e. if a book is full of typos, plot inconsistencies, and other serious issues, I think it's fair that readers (especially those on a tight budget) know about it before spending that money. Hopefully I can still do that in an encouraging way, suggesting that the author really needs an editor and a new version.
Lisa
Lisa wrote: "Dear Reed -I always strive to write a fair, complete review so that potential buyers know if it's worth their time and money. I.e. if a book is full of typos, plot inconsistencies, and other seri..."
I try to do the same, but can't always be nice about it. In most cases, I'll be polite, but when I genuinely hated a book, I let it show in my review. I think it's the best way to be fair to those who might read it. There are some books that are bad, but could be much better. Then there are those that are so bad it burns my eyes just looking at them. I would be doing the reading community a disservice if I wasn't honest about how much I hated them. Usually if I'm dealing with a fellow Indie author, I'll do my best to be encouraging. For mass media successes, they could care less what I think when 3 million other people love it, so I let fly with the harshness.
Reed wrote: "Usually if I'm dealing with a fellow Indie author, I'll do my best to be encouraging. For mass media successes, they could care less what I think when 3 million other people love it, so I let fly with the harshness."Reed, for what it's worth, as an author =and= as a professional reviewer I caution you to be careful with the tone and content of what you post publicly in regard to another author's work, regardless of how many fans you believe the author might have. The author might not care about your review, but some of his or her fans may remember, and shun your work--or, worse, seek out your work and deliberately leave lowball reviews.
You =know= what Karma's nickname is, right? And she can be pretty harsh too. ;-)
Best wishes to you & your work,
Kim Headlee
In 10 years of writing reviews, I have encountered about 4 books that I didn't like. In that case, I summarize rather than review the book. The author often doesn't know the difference. If I like the book, I gush! I may say that it's a 24-hour book - one that I couldn't put down until I had stayed up finishing it! Even with good books, I add some things that I would have improved on the book - perhaps title chapters rather than numbers only.
Kim wrote: "Reed wrote: "Usually if I'm dealing with a fellow Indie author, I'll do my best to be encouraging. For mass media successes, they could care less what I think when 3 million other people love it, s..."I am prepared to accept the consequences for the choices I make. I am no stranger to harsh reality, karmic or otherwise. If people decide to shun my work based on my opinion of other people's books, then more power to them. That's their right as a consumer, just like it's my right to post my opinion of something I genuinely didn't enjoy. You make a good point about low balling though, as I've seen people doing it to other authors on this site. Thank you very much for your counsel, I'll take it under advisement.
Best wishes to you too. :)
Sheri wrote: "Personally, I think if you don't finish a book you shouldn't be giving it a rating - you can't fairly rate it since you didn't actually read it. But writing a review explaining why you didn't like..."I agree with Sheri. I had this problem once with an ARC I was given. I really liked the general plot, but the book as a whole had some problems. I was able to finish it, but because I'd received the book for free I didn't feel right writing a negative review. (This is one of the reasons I don't often accept books for reviews) Instead I e-mailed the author and offered to send her my notes, essentially becoming a beta for her instead of a reviewer. I think this made my comments more valuable all around.
Above all you have to be honest. People do rely on reviews when they are trying to decide whether or not to buy a book. Not too long ago I created a set of guidelines for myself when it comes to reviewing and posted them on my blog. You might find them helpful.
Ten Tips to Writing an Excellent Book Review
Kim wrote: "Reed wrote: "Usually if I'm dealing with a fellow Indie author, I'll do my best to be encouraging. For mass media successes, they could care less what I think when 3 million other people love it, s..."Yes, it happened to me. I was brand new to Facebook. I thought a friend had sent me something about a new book but he had forwarded it from the author. So, I wrote that I like the author but some of my colleagues didn't because. . . . I got a reply from a defender of the author and from the author telling me where to go. It turns out the author is extremely sensitive and both he and his fan took my comment as a negative criticism. It obviously wasn't but, for those who didn't read my comment and only read theirs, well, they didn't like me. I was then banned from the author's page (and didn't realize I had been on it!). So, I am now careful of what I write and who sees it!
Speaking as an author...If someone got a fair chunk into one of my books and left a review saying that they found it boring/rubbish then I wouldn't be too bothered about it.
Also, if an author got narky and started hating on me because they didn't like a review I left for one their books, I'd just laugh at them. If I discovered that they were a particularly sensitive author I'd troll them even more by telling them I downloaded their books from a pirate site and will be leaving crappy reviews for them.
Michael wrote: "Speaking as an author...If someone got a fair chunk into one of my books and left a review saying that they found it boring/rubbish then I wouldn't be too bothered about it.
Also, if an author g..."
I don't think it's cool for an author to respond to a reviewer ever - unless maybe they're just saying thanks. They certainly shouldn't be telling anyone to go to...well, wherever it was they told Skye to go. As an author I would never contact any of my readers to say anything negative or to try and defend myself. That is just totally unprofessional. However if an author does something like this that doesn't mean you should continue to antagonize them or "troll them even more". Nor should people leave "crappy reviews" because they dislike the author. That's not what reviews are for.
Sometimes I feel like too many people abuse the reviewing system and that really makes me sad because I depend on good reviews when I'm deciding what book to read next.
Lauryn wrote: all kinds of good points about being professional, both as an author and as a reviewer.Amen, sister. :)
The only time I have ever contacted a reviewer other than to say "thank you" was to clarify a sentence that had a crucial word omission when I wanted to quote it for promotional purposes. Mainly I wanted to have the clarification on record in case anyone ever tried to claim that I had misquoted something. It was a totally friendly exchange, and I'm glad I reached out.
No matter how difficult I find a book I consider it only fair to persevere to the end. I certainly would never consider writing a public review and giving a rating if I had not finished. Sometimes, I will return to the parts I found problematic a few days later and re-read them, which has occasionally helped, even if it does not change my overall perspective.
If I really feel I cannot give a fair review I will try and send the author an e-mail or message explaining what I did not like and why. Hopefully, they will receive it in the spirit with which it is given. The person who criticised the reviewer for a 3* rating must be extremely arrogant; most would have been pleased not to have a 1 or 2* rating.
In my latest blog post (Sunday 17 November 2013) I share some thoughts about * ratings. If you are interested these may be found at http://www.tanyarobinson.blogspot.com
If I really feel I cannot give a fair review I will try and send the author an e-mail or message explaining what I did not like and why. Hopefully, they will receive it in the spirit with which it is given. The person who criticised the reviewer for a 3* rating must be extremely arrogant; most would have been pleased not to have a 1 or 2* rating.
In my latest blog post (Sunday 17 November 2013) I share some thoughts about * ratings. If you are interested these may be found at http://www.tanyarobinson.blogspot.com
Tanya your link just took me to a blog from Sept. 2005 with no option to search by date. Is there a better link? Thanks!
I recently started reading a book I had received in return for a review, and whilst the story was promising the amount of typos etc was just so much that I couldn't continue reading it. I mean, it was kind of 6 or more a page .. so I stopped reading it. Despite the promise of the story, I feel there are just too many mistakes to make it viable, and it should never be published in this state. Do I review or not? I have, so far, chosen to remain silent. But is this the right thing? If I reviewed I could only give one star, because it is so plagued with typos and other mistakes. I used to approach the authors in private, but a few of them have reacted badly, and so now I'm reluctant to do so. One was even upset at a four star review (personally, I'd be delighted with four stars). I really don't want to trash the author, but then I also have a responsibility to readers ... this is a really difficult one for me. And of course, if I haven't finished the book, can I really give it a star rating? What do people think?
What about when a person rates your book 1 star and you know they didn't even read it? I know this for a fact because the person has marked both my books with one star and tagged them in folders like, (uh-no thanks, writing-issues, asshat). They did that and based their opinion on me and my work solely based off one negative comment I prolly made in the past and they saw it and assumed the worse and my book suffers the consequences.. :/
Well a veteran friend of mine who is newer to this than I am, told me 2 B honest when reviewing/rating the books. I already P/O 1 guy off, so I refused 2 stoop 2 his level. I however was a former crisis/school counselor so I live by ethics/rules; but that's me.
If a writer spends his hard earned X writing a book he/she deserves UR honest opinion & you'd better have read the book...that's how they make their living, besides luving 2 write.
Fortunately so far I've only had one person who didn't finish one of my books and wasn't going to leave a comment until I asked him to.
If I don't finish a book, I don't review. But I will write to the author and explain why. For the rest, I try to be kind as well as honest. The best way is to keep it short, I think. As for being on the receiving end, I don't see why a 3 star review is such a bad thing. Actually, one of the sweetest reviews I've ever had came from a reader who treated my work like a Shakespeare play. He analysed, picked and thought it all over - I was flattered!
Justin -There are always going to be random wildcards out there in the world - both bad and good. You can't worry about them. You need to build up a body of honest reviews so that the truth - whatever it is - bubbles out. It's equally unfair for a book to have one glowing review which is written by a good friend :).
Lisa
I've found that a bad review can be educational, as I'm sure to write more books. It's a mirror held to the author that has no reason to lie. All writers are sensitive if they care about their work, but as another poster mentioned, authors need to be professional when they get critical reviews. You're going to get a mix of reviews, stars, and DNFs if readers you don't know are reading your work.
It hasn't happened to me so far, but if I received a free book in exchange for an honest review and I simply couldn't give it four or five stars (due to poor editing, or something like that, not simply that it wasn't "my thing"), I think I would contact the author and explain (as gently as possible) and ask if they want me to post the review or not. I don't think it hurts a book to have a couple bad reviews IF they have a lot of good reviews. It also depends on what the bad reviews say . . .
There's also a difference between an honest review with constructive criticism and outright bullying. I've come across a fellow author who has fallen victim to some Christian Group from Michigan who have been using the rating system to bully her. The book is fantastic, and I can only imagine that some of the content has offended their sensibilities. So, even though they are using reviews to hound her, I won' really call them reviews, because they're not. Still, it only takes a few 1 stars to completely trash a book's credibility. In my view, and I take a lot of pleasing, her work is a good 5 stars. And I've made sure I've told her so, and have left a clear review for the book.
Harmony -I agree that hostile reviews are against the spirit of any reviewing site. You can either agree or disagree with the book's content, and state why - but to attack the author is just not professional in my opinion.
Also, if the book's content matches its marketing, and the content is the issue, I think it's unfair to write a poor review based on that. I.e. if a book says clearly "clean romance for those 13-17" someone shouldn't write a nasty review saying it had no sex in it. Conversely if a book says "18+ explicit language" someone shouldn't complain that it DOES have sex in it. Books are written for different markets. If someone doesn't like to read a genre of books, that's fine, but it's unhelpful to complain that the genre (or books within it) even exist.
So the two reasons I think are fair game are if a book says it's in genre X and is poorly written for that genre, or if a book has vague or misleading marketing which lures people into buying it and then they're upset with what they got.
Lisa
Book reviews that contain content not pertaining to the book should be removed. I review a product, not the person. It really pisses me off when I see reviews that bash an author or pass judgment on them. That is not why I read a review. I want to know about THAT particular book (or product, service, etc). Also, people who rate books that they haven't read are asshats whether the rating is good or bad. I.e: 'I'll never read this book because the author supports gay rights' or 'Squeeeee! I love this author and this book will be awesome!' Give me an effing break!As I stated earlier, I rate a DNF book because I have read it. I may not have finished it, but I did read at least 35%, sometimes more. I am a reviewer. People read my reviews for my opinion on a book. It's MY opinion, but I am only one person. I'm not saying everyone should rate a DNF. I am only saying that I do. Luckily, I haven't had very many DNF books.
Personally, if I don't like a book, I don't review it. My reaction is influenced by my personal taste and it could be a perfect book for other readers. However, if it is chock full of writing errors and obviously not edited, I would leave a comment saying that. If I don't like a book, I usually don't finish it so I definitely can't review it.
Finished or not, liked or not liked, I review books, especially if they were from NetGalley, ARR programs, provided by the author in exchange for a review. I may be a little more lenient towards indie authors (I know from experience how hard it is to edit your own work), and harsher on traditionally published books (publishing houses are supposed to have editors and people who work to improve books, so no excuse here). But reviewing only the books I liked would be unfair IMHO in its own way.If it's for an ARR/R4R, I try harder to get into the book, to go as far as possible, in order to be able to judge said book on as much material as possible. I don't put up such an effort for a book with a gazillion of reviews, for which mine won't change anything. But sometimes, it's just not doable, and I think it's also fair to other readers that I let them know why I couldn't finish the book. In which case, of course, I explain in more than just a couple of lines: it might be because of poor editing; or glaring plot holes; or cardboard-cut character; and so on. (And if my reasons are really more of the subjective kind, I'll also mention it: e.g. "this book frightened me so much I couldn't finish it, BUT I'm positive someone with more stomach than I could love it.")
I seldom DNF a book anyway, and I admit that mostly, those end up as 1-star in my list. However, there could be exceptions. There may come a day when I still give 3 stars to a DNF because what caused me to stop reading has nothing to do with the book itself. (E.g. again: I have an extremely hard time reading anything about cancer, since it scares me a lot. I might have to stop reading a book that becomes too graphic about that, and I probably won't pick a story whose plot is essentially about that. But it wouldn't mean the book is crap. In such a case, I may also not rate it—or rate it only according to all its other aspects, save that one.)
Call me insensitive, but I say that as an author, once you enter the published fray, you have to grow some balls. If the prospect of a DNF- or 1-star-review frightens you, then don't publish anything, or at least don't hand out free copies "in exchange for a (so-called) honest review". Because those things will happen, there'll always be people who won't like your writing, and that's the way it is: harsh, but true.
(Which, by the way, doesn't justify abuse from authors and their friends who're unhappy that they're not getting only 5-star reviews. This is yet another matter.)
I offered up my book for AAR with two groups. As a new author, I really need the feedback and appreciate all reviews. Unfortunately, several of the readers who volunteered to read and review the book have not posted their reviews, and it really bugs me because why did they volunteer in the first place? I only offered a limited number of copies, so some readers who wanted to check it out for free didn't get a chance.I guess I'm old school. I think if a person agrees to do something, then he/she should do it. And post an honest review, which is what was agreed. The ratings for my book are all over the place. Some love it, some hate it, but I appreciate every review and have thanked everyone, even those who DNF'd it, for giving a new author a chance and taking the time to check out my first book.
Julia, That happened to me as well, for whatever reason the person did not leave a review if they ever even read my book. Sometimes if people read a book and dont like it rather then upset the person or leave a bad review maybe they just dont do anything..its unfortunate but not much you can do.
It happened to me, too. But the truth is, Life Happens. Good intentions sometimes run out of time. I focus on the people who DO read my books and offer reviews. People get behind. Or sick. Or busy. I do, too. So I understand.
I sometimes wonder why some people will rate your book but not review it or vise versa. It's like if you can do one why not do the other? Do they not go hand in hand with one another? I always found thats odd.
Making Connections
Books mentioned in this topic
Dawnflight (other topics)The Color of Vengeance (other topics)
Morning's Journey (other topics)
I never set up a rule around this issue so I would love to hear what other authors/reviewers think or do.
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May I ask a question about the rules - not necessarily for this group but general?
Hypothetically speaking (this is not related in any way to any ARR I am currently doing)...If I agree to do an ARR and I get into the book and I am not happy or it is not at all what i expected and I can not bring myself to finish it, what are the rules or suggestions for how to handle this?
I know for myself I would try and finish it and then rate it based on the good points in the story (if I could find any) but if I didn't like it then I would be battling myself trying to get through it and may end up giving it more negative that it truly deserves.
Is it wrong to mark it as incomplete in the review and explain why?