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Twelve Years a Slave
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November Buddy Read: Twelve Years A Slave
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kisha, The Clean Up Lady
(last edited Nov 11, 2013 01:45PM)
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"He looked upon the black man simply as an animal, differing in no respect from any other animal, save in the gift of speech and the possession of somewhat highter instincts, and therefore, the more valuable. To work like his father's mules......brought up with such ideas in the notion that we stand without the pale of humanity no wonder the oppressors of my people are a pitliless and unrelenting race."
Also,
It is true there are many kind-hearted and good men in the parish of Avoyelles, such men as Ford....It is not the fault of the slaveholder that he is cruel, so much as it is the fault of the system under which he lives. He cannot withstand the influence of habit and associations that surround him. Taught from earliest childhood, by all that he sees and hears, that the rod is forthe slave's back, he will not be apt to change his opinions in maturer years.
In this passage, Northrup is speaking of Master Epps son. He briefly explains how generation after generatiuon are taught how to think about and treat the slaves. What I like about Solomon is through all of his sufferings he never judges anyone (compliments to his intellegence). He learns that it isn't the fault of any slave owner moreso the way they are brought up. I personally like that in him and totally agree with his perception of the slave owner. What are your thoughts?
Andrew, thanks for that article. Very interesting. Looking at it, you can see that slaves were extremely 'valuable' and why Northup's life would have been in danger, either because they would have sold him further south, or just killed him if they were going to lose him without restitution. *I want to come back to that point at the end of the book*I liked that passage too. I agree kisha, that he would always try and tie behavior to the person's upbringing, circumstances, and countenance. For example, Ford was brought up in the same 'system' and was a different sort of slave owner. Northup did attempt to paint a realistic view in that regard.
Up to the time of my departure I had to wear a whip about my neck in the field. If Epps was present, I dared not show any lenity, not having the Christian fortitude of a certain well known Uncle Tom sufficiently to brave his wrath, by refusing to perform the office. What do you think about Northup becoming the driver? He mentions that he became skilled at 'pretending' to whip the slaves in the field. This contrasts greatly to the black overseers I have read about in other slave novels (for ex. the Johnny Jumpers in The Book of Night Women) who seem to enjoy the work of beating the slaves.
He also readily admits that he didn't have it in him to refuse and get beaten himself. I thought that was a very honest admission, and I would hate to be in that position myself.
Mod
He also readily admits that he didn't have it in him to refuse and get beaten himself. I thought that was a very honest admission, and I would hate to be in that position myself"
It's interesting that you mentioned the Johnny Jumpers in The Book of Night Women because I immediately thought of the Johnny Jumpers when I was reading that part of 12 Years a Slave. It wasn't unpopular to hire a slave as overseerer if you were a slaveholder of a lesser tax bracket. Being able to compare Northrup's version of overseeing the slaves and the Johnny Jumpers were very interesting. The difference being that the Johnny Jumpers loved their job. They were treated above field slaves (in a senes) given a bit more freedom and were allowed to rape the other slave women during a time when sex was limited for slaves. And the took a certain joy in the power of overseeing. Where as Northrup utilized the power as his option to sneakily spare his peers pain and agony. Unfortonately, a time came where he couldn't spar. The time came where he had to show and prove. He was forced to beat Patsey senselesslly until he later refused. That's an unfortunate perdictament to be in and I don't know what I would have done in means of survival because refusing could have ultimately meant his life.
kisha wrote: "Londa wrote: "What do you think about Northup becoming the overseer? He mentions that he became skilled at 'pretending' to whip the slaves in the field. This contrasts greatly to the black overseer..."Very good points! We often think of slavery as being black and white – slave owner versus slave. But in reality there was a whole hierarchy of the enslaved including the ‘Johnny Jumpers’ and punishment slaves.
I don’t think Solomon felt he was in a position to refuse but he was able to mitigate some of the worst beatings handed out.
Mod
I know he wasn't necessarily referring to this at the time of the quote, but this passage pretty much explained how he was able to beat another undeserving slave.... There have been hours in my unhappy life, many of them, when the contemplation of death, as the end of earthly sorrow of the grave as a resting place for the tired and worn out body has been pleasant to dwell upon. But such contemplations vanish in the hour of peril...life is dear to every living thing; the worm that crawls upon the ground will struggle for it. At that moment it was dear to me, enslaved and treated as I was."
I liked that passage because it was a dose of truth. Most people will fight for their life instictively, sometimes even when suicidal. On a movie I watched it was said that we as mankind are too selfish to kill ourselves. All of that to me explains how a fellow slave can beat another slave, in whom they know first hand their struggle and knowing that they did nothing to deserve it because their own life is instictively more valuable to them.
kisha I was moved by that passage too. When I read it, I was thinking how raw and truthful it was. Great point about how strong the survival instinct is!
Patsey -- Queen of the FieldThere was an air of loftiness in her movement that neither labor, nor weariness, nor punishment could destroy. Truly Patsey was a splendid animal, and were it not that bondage had enshrouded her intellect in utter and everlasting darkness, would have been chief among ten thousand of her people
I would have to say that Patsey's story affected me the most from all of those that Solomon relayed. She was truly stuck in a living hell. Yet, she managed to keep her good humor until Epps broke her with that brutal whipping. To be preyed upon by one master and then punished for his depravity by the mistress. Awful!
In that way, I feel that female slaves had an additional burden, in addition to all the rest. They had to hope that their master was not the type to rape their slaves.
I can imagine if they portray that whipping in the movie, it will be the most heartwrenching in the film.
Any comments on... *The Christmas holidays
*Platt's violin playing
*Platt's homemade ink and letter attempt
*Wiley's 'escape'
*Celeste
*Lew Cheney and his Mexico plan
*Uncle Abram's stabbing
Londa wrote: "Patsey -- Queen of the FieldThere was an air of loftiness in her movement that neither labor, nor weariness, nor punishment could destroy. Truly Patsey was a splendid animal, and were it not that..."
Unfortunately this was most probably the unusual situation for a slave women to find herself in. Punished by the jealous slave mistress who could be very vicious.
In All Souls' Rising by Madison Smartt Bell the mistress actually murders the young pregnant slave women who is carrying the master’s child!
Londa wrote: "Any comments on... *The Christmas holidays
*Platt's violin playing
*Platt's homemade ink and letter attempt
*Wiley's 'escape'
*Celeste
*Lew Cheney and his Mexico plan
*Uncle Abram's stabbing"
The Christmas holidays
Giving slaves a ‘holiday’ during the year seems to be a common theme among slave societies in the New World. From Solomon’s account it was the only time that they were fed well by the slave owners. I was surprised to learn that the owners and the slave owning families would also attend the meals but it seems only to witness the slaves eat.
Platt's violin playing
The violin not only kept Solomon sane during his captivity but it also seems to have given him a certain amount of celebrity status in the community. Even the local whites seem to be well aware of how good a player he was.
Celeste
Celeste could have passed for a white person so it seems strange that she didn’t use that as a means to escape. The fact that she returned to her plantation after she was healed shows how certain slaves were almost programmed to believe that they couldn’t exist outside the slave system.
Lew Cheney and his Mexico plan
He apparently turned his fellow conspirator’s in and lied about their intentions which I think shows that he was frightened of being found out to be the ringleader. He most probably could no longer safely remain among the slave population in the area. The editor’s notes indicate that he was paid to settle down in another state.
Mod
It was pretty standard for a slave woman to be raped by her master and for the mistress to be jealous. I think what separates Patsey's story from the traditional is the suffering she became accustomed because of it.
Celeste ;
I agree with Andrew I definitely would have swore I was white. But I imagine first thing she'd have to do is get away from the bayou. I Imagine that would be very challenging considering she had no money or means of food. I don't believe running away was as simple as many books and especially movies made it seem easy and left out other main factors such as starvation, no sense of direction, wild animals, and extreme temperatures. I think what Celeste did was likely realistic.
When i was in Tennessee to do some research i jogged a few miles in the mountains ...going north. The terrain, the altitude the temperature. It was awful...but i wanted to get a taste of what my characters would go through. Much love to those that ran.....
R.E. wrote: "When i was in Tennessee to do some research i jogged a few miles in the mountains ...going north. The terrain, the altitude the temperature. It was awful...but i wanted to get a taste of what my ch..."Good points made by Kisha and R.E. Slaves were generally ignorant of where they were and I see how it would be difficult for them to run. Recalling Solomon's tale, I think everyone who ever made an escape attempt ended up back on the plantation!
In Chapter XV Solomon mentions unions between slave men and women. We are usually told that slave marriages were not recognised and the nature of the environment made permanent relationships very difficult. Yet Solomon says that ‘marriages’ were encouraged by the masters of female slaves. What are your thoughts?
R.E. Good point, and you only went for a small distance and in modern clothing too. I agree it must have been almost impossible to escape. It was probably easier to escape from a more northern state like Virginia, Maryland, or Kentucky but to escape from a deep south state would have been treacherous. You have to travel through other slave states just to get safe. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_... Andrew, you are right! I don't think anyone escaped during the 12 years he was there. Poor Wiley got pretty far though. kisha, what you said about Celeste makes sense too. Even if she could pass, she would have had to obtain suitable clothing and figure out which direction to go.
Andrew wrote: "Yet Solomon says that ‘marriages’ were encouraged by the masters of female slaves. What are your thoughts..." I think their sole motivation for this was monetary. There would be a greater chance for reproduction this way. More babies means more money in their pockets.
Oh, and thanks for the All Souls Rising link. My TBR list is growing by leaps and bounds
Platt's letter attemptOne of the only points of this book that I laughed. When Platt fooled Epps about his letter writing.
That Armsby is a lying, drunken fellow, they say, and nobody believes him anyway. You know I always tell the truth, and that I never go off the plantation without a pass. Now, master, I can see what that Armsby if after, plain enough. Didn't he want you to hire him for an overseer?
I was sad that his plan didn't work out, but at least he made a fool out of Epps! The narrator in the audio version I listened to, did this part justice.
Lew Cheney
When I read about how they hung so many because of a plot that was never realized, even those who were merely suspected, I couldn't fathom that the 'mastermind' got off without a scrape. Then, like Andrew mentioned I read the notes in Eakins edition and saw that he got his freedom because he revealed the plot! That's a trip!
Mod
kisha wrote: "Yes I too was confused about the slave marriage thing. Some say they could marry at the masters request. Others say slave marriage wasn't allowed. I've also heard they could marry but wasn't all..."I suppose as there were no 'laws' set down in slave society about marriage, slave unions might depend on the slave owner. As Londa mentioned from a purely economic point of view a union like this would increase the slave population and make more ‘resources’ available or more ‘commodities’ to sell.
Another point of view on this that I’ve heard is that ‘marriage’ among slaves was encouraged as it was believed to make them less rebellious and less likely to run away (well especially for Women at least).
It is interesting that whilst laws of slave states in particular didn't recognise slave marriages as being legally binding, some Christian churches did even going as far to as to encourage families. This despite the fact that the very same churches supported the institution of slavery!
message 122:
by
kisha, The Clean Up Lady
(last edited Nov 18, 2013 06:28AM)
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Oh the good ole Christian church! I myself am a Christian (though I perfer sprituality over religion) and growing up in the church, one thing that has been constant in the Christian church is contradiction. So that isn't surprising to me at all. They find a verse in the Bible, manipulate it to mean what they want it to mean and then began believing their own lies and false sustifications.
Has either one of you gone to see the film yet? It's on my list of things to do next week.
No, I have a toddler and a newborn. I don't think my wife is going to pick that one for date night...lol. can you say "rental"
Mod
Nope, haven't seen the movie and it is playing here now. I want to go see it alone. My kids are too young, and I don't think my husaband will want to go. I better hurry up before it leaves the theater!
***** SPOILERS BELOW *** Open Discussion of Chapters 19 through the END & Summary ***** One question I had regarding this part..Why didn't Bass mention Solomon's slave name in the letter? It would have made finding him easier. Or at least mentioned Epps name. Did he think someone would read it? I must have missed something.
Solomon's goodbyes to the other slaves on the plantation did not seem very emotional. The only emotional one was Patsey. Maybe everyone was in shock.
message 127:
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kisha, The Clean Up Lady
(last edited Nov 18, 2013 10:11AM)
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I wondered this same thing Londa. I thought it was a no brainer that his relatives and old friends especially businessmen would need to know both names considering the name Solomon meant absolutely nothing in Beouf Bayou. That is a bit strange. But my guess would probably be because had someone read it at the post office (which Bass feared their suspicion) they wouldn't know Solomon Northrup but they would know his slave name and the fact that Bass was the one taking it to the post office would put both men in danger. He probably knew they would find Solomon in a small town like Beouf Bayou, eventually and it was safer to go that route.
"Solomon's goodbyes to the other slaves on the plantation did not seem very emotional. The only emotional one was Patsey. Maybe everyone was in shock.
That part was actually very disturbing to me. He spend 10 years with those same slaves and didn't seem to have much regards for them when leaving. But as I have said early on in our discussion I see him as being very arrogant. He felt he was better than the slaves and didn't belong. Yes, that too shocked and disturbed me as well.
kisha wrote: "Lol, I can't wait to go see it. I'm really excited about it. Even though once I finished the book I wasn't absolutely crazy about nor was I convinced of the "facts" but I see the potential of it ..."I'm hoping to see the film this week.
Mod
Andrew please let us know what you think of the film when you see it.Great review kisha!
Mod
After Freedom: What Happened?In the Eakins edition there is a very interesting section discussing Northup's life before and after the 12 years.
*Solomon had been convicted on three incidences of assault (before the kidnapping) and was known to drink regularly
*Anne, his wife was the primary source of financial stability before he was kidnapped
After
*Burch was arrested for selling Solomon into slavery, but was released on bail and never tried for the crime. Northup was not allowed to testify.
*Merrill and Russell (the two original kidnappers) were arrested and released on bail. The case against them lingered on for years in and out of various courts. The case was finally discharged in 1857 without having ever gone to trial!
*Solomon again disappeared in or around 1864. Some family states that he went to Mississippi and was killed. Others say he was on a book tour when he disappeared. There is no grave.
What do you all think happened to Solomon? I was so shocked when I read that he had an unknown fate! If he did go to Mississippi, Why in the world would he do that?? There must have been many people who wanted him dead. I wonder what did happen to him...
Mod
talk about spoiler alert....there is nothing like reading a story about this great adventure and then learn he was kind of a tool. some have all suggested that created the plan to sell himself into slavery for the money...and then be freed because he was a freemnan, but the plan went horribly wrong. I find that hard to believe but this guy might have been arrogant enough to do it.
Mod
I would say killed. he wasn't worth the money. wow...sounds weird to put a price on somebody.
I wonder how the movie portrays him...
Mod
I think it was assumed we have all completed it. Andrew and I have reviews up already and earlier in the thread you implied it was a reread for you. But I apologize if it were a spoiler for you just at a certain point we assume everyone has finished.
I never knew it we suggested that he would sell himself into slavery. I think he was smarter than that.
Mod
I wondered the same thing. Especially towards the end. Have you seen the trailer?
I am sure the movie portrays him in the best light possible before the kidnapping. I don't think he was a bad man, I just think he was no where near a saint. Probably got into fights after drinking or something. He preferred to make money with his music or by contract work, so he didn't go for full time employment. Let the little lady do that ;) I'm (didn't)60/40(did) on whether or not he had a hand in his own kidnapping. It might explain why he was so quiet about his true background for so long. I don't know...
I feel that he was killed too. He made Epps and company look like backwoods ignoramuses. I'm pretty sure they heard about his book and probably even read it. I don't think they would appreciate the embarrassment. So if he did go to Mississippi on his own, well... maybe he wasn't as smart as I have been giving him credit for.
kisha wrote: "talk about spoiler alert....I think it was assumed we have all completed it. Andrew and I have reviews up already and earlier in the thread you implied it was a reread for you. But I apologize i..."
The audio version I listened to at first didn't have all of the additional info, and most of the editions don't. So when I read the Eakins edition (excellent), my heart kind of sank when I read he went missing again. So perhaps more of a let down than a spoiler. ;)
oh no....I didn't convey my comments very well I apologize. I was just saying spoiler alert because it's still a good story but once again It's clouded by questionable behavior by Solomon. His death and disappearance and motives pretty much spoils the story. I don't know if I can watch the movie! Is he a victim or a hero or something else.
Mod
I wonder the same. I'm a pretty pratical person. Typically when I read these types of stories I feel deeply passionate and am usually emphatic for the protagonist. I feel sort of guilty knowing this is considered a true story and I didn't empathize with the protagonist much. I think it's because I didn't see much innocence in him. I think I did what I never sdo....I judged the character which is never good. I think his true character however was clouded by a ghost writer. It was hard to get a good sense of who he was.
When i first ran across this story a few years i was like wow why is this not an american classic when I read the description and instantly blamed society for burying good black literature. However, I think this story was not lost or forgotten about over time, but rather abandoned by previous generations of black readers because of the uncertain feeling it leaves you with. As a black man im glad he survived but he comes off as weak and spine less at times. I like to think the blood that flows through my veins is that of an African Warrior that is prepared to die in a swamp rather than bitch up and go to the Ford's and complain. I wanted him to be my Superman, but he turned out to be kind of a bum!
Mod
No doubt about it was a hardship...but if i had a chance to make it home and back to my im taking it
Sorry i got cut off.....as i was saying. I would do whatever it took to make it back to my wife. I understand fear...but i also have pride. Which he had.....since he constantly talked back.
Okay after thinking about it long and hard maybe my problem is not with Solomon but myself.....because maybe i would have done the same things he did and would not have been as bold and fearless as i think i would have been. He survived slavery and that should be honored and recognized not questioned.
R.E. wrote: "Okay after thinking about it long and hard maybe my problem is not with Solomon but myself.....because maybe i would have done the same things he did and would not have been as bold and fearless ..."This is a very interesting discussion. With another narrative I have read (The Interesting Narrative of the Life of Olaudah Equiano: Written by Himself) which was also an autobiography; there has been criticism of the author. Suggestions that elements of his story was made up to help sell his book. I suppose there may have been some of that but I feel the tale does represent what African people have had to deal with at the time. Olaudah Equiano’s book was also used to support the anti-slavery cause in England where he lived in his later life.
I would say the same is true for Solomon. I did pick up on the points about his drinking, the misconduct charges against him and the fact that he didn’t have a stable job. But overall his tale shows what Black people had to go through during his time. I think much of the discussion of the film reflects a greater issue where in the 21st Century the legacy of slavery is still with us! Here is an interesting discussion involving Steve McQueen - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRf_xc....
I am hoping to watch the film later today and will certainly let you know my thoughts on it.
Mod
I can understand your opinion. There is a big contradiction in his bravery. One minute he's fighting off his master the next he's submissive. But that's why I'm not the biggest fan of non-fiction. In real life people are multi-dimensional. When reading fiction the character is more romanticize. But in real life our character is more complex. I can't wait to see the movie to get a more romanticized version of Solomon.
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Books mentioned in this topic
The Interesting Narrative of the Life of Olaudah Equiano (other topics)All Souls' Rising (other topics)
The Book of Night Women (other topics)
The Feast of All Saints (other topics)
The Known World (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Madison Smartt Bell (other topics)Edward P. Jones (other topics)
Harriet Beecher Stowe (other topics)
Solomon Northup (other topics)
Northup describes the daily life of a slave in great detail in chapters 12 - 14. When I was listening to these accounts o..."
True that they may have been given meagre rations but the slave as also expected to supplement this by producing food in their own time. Solomon mentioned hunting of possums (and other creatures) as well as catching fish. I think slave run societies tended to encouraged this!
A slave was seen as an expensive commodity and their worth was based on what they could produce over their lifetime. Here is an interesting article attempts to measure the worth of a slave in today’s prices http://www.measuringworth.com/slavery....
I think owners like Epps were happy to abuse their slaves as long as it didn’t interfere with their ability to work.