Fallen
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Why YA?! What happened to all the guys?
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I'm in total agreement with you, Nym... Most of the guys in YA litterature is too perfect, but I wouldn't go as far as to say, that there 'perfect'... As you use Edward from Twilight as an example, so will I: Edward is pretty low on selfesteem and selfcontrol (he doesn't think he deserves Bella and he doesn't quit have the selfcontrol not to bite her (At least in the beginning of the story) )... These are flaws in his personality, but because the Meyer (the writer) doesn't go into detail about it, and write paige up and paige down about, most people I've talked with about, haven't seen...
I could do examples as such for hust about every YA book I've read...
So I guess my point is this: YA males have flaws, the writers just doesn't give us much of a chance to really delve into them, and get bothered by them...
YA males have flaws, we just don't get a chance to understand those flaws and sympathise. The key to a good character is that the reader can understand their pov even when they do things we think are bad or moronic. If you can relate to a characters bad qualities then you feel much more connected to them.
I know how you feel, Nym. I love the paranormal romance genre but not what has been done to it ever since Twilight... and I also feel that all those male leads are just too boring and flawless and not to mention, most behave in truly criminal ways. I find it funny how Line and Bridie at once went on about how your statement about male YA protagonists being too perfect is wrong, but I don't think so. Of course they actually have personality flaws (Such as Edward being a stalker, or insecure, or whatever) but the writing, and by extension, that means the author, the other characters, and maybe even many a reader, won't acknowledge it, therefore it doesn't count, which makes your statement true again. I've read my fair share of post-Twilight paranormal YA, and the male leads of, say, Wings, Hush Hush, Need, Shiver, Vampire Academy, and of course, also Fallen, are very, very similar to each other - brooding, aloof, pretty bad boys. I've written a paranormal YA romance of my own and when I posted the first 40 chapters on a forum, I got positive feedback from a lot of people who actually despised Twilight and consorts for this very reason and told me they were so happy that my male lead, Sergej, was not just a generic handsome bad boy. He's stubborn and sometimes acts immature and can be very emotional about things, also he mistrusts most people immediately and gets in his own way around the female lead, Kitty, and everyone around him acknowledges it and reacts accordingly. And people were content with and even glad about it. There seem to be many people who feel just like the two of us.
Also, whenever I read paranormal YA romance that was published before Twilight (e.g. Annette Curtis Klause's "The Silver Kiss") I feel that the male lead has a lot more personality.
Bridie-No excuses. No apologies. No Regrets wrote: "YA males have flaws, we just don't get a chance to understand those flaws and sympathise. The key to a good character is that the reader can understand their pov even when they do things we think a..."I do agree with you, but the problem I keep seeing is that they just aren't given convincing flaws at all. How are we supposed to sympathise with someone like Daniel Grigori, whose only given flaw seems to be being so in love with Luce that he keeps killing her with his kisses? On the other hand, maybe the idea is that supernautral beings are so far removed from our 'mundane' lives that we can't see beyond their dazzling unfamiliarity, and therefore cannot truly relate. But if I'm honest, that just seems like lazy character development, and if the previous point was the case, it should be made much clearer and the humans they make contact with really ought to feel very alienated by them, rather than immediately lulled in.
Line wrote: "I'm in total agreement with you, Nym... Most of the guys in YA litterature is too perfect, but I wouldn't go as far as to say, that there 'perfect'... As you use Edward from Twilight as an example..."
I think that's it..I do wish that writers could just see people as people, however gorgeous they are. That is possibly what does all the overshadowing; the fact that they are portrayed as so other-worldy and almost ethereal that their supposed detachment from the human race simply makes them dull rather than awesome (in the most literal sense of the word).
However, what you said about Edward actually having low self esteem and thinking he doesn't deserve Bella puzzles me a little. He may have felt terrible about wanting to kill her, but later exercises uncomfortable amounts of control over her and on numerous occasions goes completely against what she wants to do what he thinks she should. I don't know...
Saku wrote: "I know how you feel, Nym. I love the paranormal romance genre but not what has been done to it ever since Twilight... and I also feel that all those male leads are just too boring and flawless and ..."Thank goodness! I like what you mentioned about your own story (which sounds really good, by the way:)), where the characters around Sergej actually react to his behaviour. I find it really aggravating when the 'hero' either only somehow exists in the girl's world, and everyone else is astonishingly oblivious to how obnoxious he is, or they are too much in awe of his beauty to care whether he thinks they're stupid sheep who aren't deserving of his presence. Realistically, if there was a moron at my school, the majority of people would notice and certainly say something about it , however sexy he was.
I really would like for more modern paranormal romance writers to realise that it's a good thing to give their characters realistic flaws- the guy might be dumber than average, people may call him out on being arrogant, or he could even just be the plain looking one, for once. He could have any number of fascinating elements to his character and yet, inexplicably, the same thing keeps popping up every time! *sigh*
Nym *rules the world!=^•^=* wrote: "Saku wrote: "I know how you feel, Nym. I love the paranormal romance genre but not what has been done to it ever since Twilight... and I also feel that all those male leads are just too boring and ..."Thanks a lot! I would have found a generic bad boy far too boring for my story, and I enjoy writing scenes in which Kitty, and Sergej's best friends Ivan and Madelina, make it clear to him that he just acted like an idiot or like a creep or whatever :J (Sergej is not even particularly handsome either, by the way, and his manners are a bit rough, which is especially important as the story is set in the 1770s and Kitty is a noblewoman.) To me, it feels anorganic to write about an archetype rather than a real person. Sergej is no one I'd like to fap over (Which it seems to me is what many a paranormal YA author does when she describes his perfect hair and marble skin and glowing eyes), more like a person I'd like to have as a friend.
I mean, no one thinks things like "He's a southpaw" or "He prefers crispy peanut butter to creamy one" or "He has a little mole on the back of his hand" or "He cocks his head a bit to the right when he listens to someone speak" when they think about their "dream boys". And then, when authors think about the most gorgeous guy they could possibly imagine, they forget about little details like those that give the character personality. And inevitably we have another bloodless (pun not intended) pretty-looking shell that, while it breathes (usually) and talks and moves, feels not quite alive and more like a cardboard cutout. The golden eyes and beautifully tousled raven black hair and flawless ivory skin and even the Mini Cooper they're driving doesn't give them personality. They're still cardboard, just well-decorated cardboard.
Of course, there need to be positive attributes as well (Sergej is physically strong, is a good rider and a friend to all animals, feels responsible for everyone around him and is a very loyal friend, for example) or else the readers will not like him, but even positive traits are often very generic in those stereotypical YA bad boys. More often than not, many things the authors describe him as are rather passive, such as "mysterious", and he often exists in a vacuum, e.g. he has no friends, no or only very distant family (or, as in Twilight, a very stereotypically "good" family), no real past before he meets the girl, no real hobbies and pastimes and so on. There is so, so so much wasted potential there.
One thing i can't stand is a brooding hero. It takes the life out of the book. worse, ppl support him and in his defense, he has a miserable past. good examples would be Jace from mortal instruments and Warner from shatter me. they are supposedly sexy and smart and underneath his mysterious exterior hides a battered/abused soul waiting for the heroine's love. I think it is boring and lacks creativity.
Give the guy some flaws, why don't you?! And while watching a near stranger sleep, being abusive and demeaning to just about everyone that doesn't match up to your own 'god-like' being does make you very flawed, romanticising these actions and selling them as 'sweet' and 'protective' doesn't count.
Maybe I haven't read far enough into the genre, but from what I've seen, the perfect, chiseled, brooding boyfriend has had me in near fits of fury every time, (not helped by his useless whiny girlfriend) -so much so that I feel like throttling them all and screaming some sense into them...
What are your thoughts? Agree/disagree?