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The Golem and the Jinni
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Wecker, Helene - The Golem and the Jinni- Start Date November 12, 2013 (November 2013 Adult Sci-Fi/Fantasy)
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Questions and Comments for Chapters 13 - 15
29) I like the contrasts presented between the Jinni and the Golem--Male/Female--Hot/Cold--Trapped/Free--Arrogant/Meek--Old/Young... I think these two will become great friends. What's your opinion?
I think they are going to be great together it's what people say: opposites attract. The compensate each others shortcommings.
30) So the Rabbi taught Chava about the Jewish religion and now Arbeely is teaching the Jinni about Christ. Interesting. These two still seem to be a pair of matched opposites to me. What do you think? Could that be what the author is trying to do here? Could he be using the religions to symbolize they are different yet they stem from a common place? Is anyone else getting the impression this book will have an underlying lesson or message to it?
It seems to me the book has the message that people are equal and have the same desires and worries no matter what their belief is.
31) Yehudah sees his dream as a means to gain immortality. Any idea as to how? I can't help but think that the binding spell the Rabbi created to a new master which he altered to require Chava's permission will somehow play an important roll later. I have to admit I'm wondering if there will be a happy ending or not with this one. Things could go very wrong or very right from this point.
I don't know it's too soon in the story to predict if there is going to be a happy ending.
32) Do you like the switching between the Jinni's past and present? I can't help but think that Fadwa is somehow the key to his internment and enslavement. I just can't figure out how. Any ideas? Could she have helped in capturing him?
I think Fadwa has something to do with how the Jinni ended up, but I don't think she actively participated.
33) Once again Chava surprises us with her wisdom--“But I think, sometimes men want what they don’t have because they don’t have it. Even if everyone offered to share, they would only want the share that wasn’t theirs.” Could this be foreshadowing of something to come?
I don't think so. She has learned lot from the rabbi.
34) Anyone else curious as to who the woman Yehudah once loved was and what happened to her? I got this crazy awful feeling/image that that grave he dug up may have something to do with Chava's creation. Could it also have something to do with the woman Yehudah talked of????
Not really, I'm not sure if the woman he was talking about is even real.
Questions and Comments for Chapters 18 - 2043) So Schaalman found Chava and thought she'd been destroyed. So this means she was not what drove him to New York. I may need to revisit that dream. After reading this section, I think the Jinni may be what is drawing him, but as to why I haven't a clue.
Yeah - don't know, but he definitely seems to be getting some sort of intuitive message/sign to go in search of whatever it is in N.Y.
44) I truly liked the dance hall scene until Chava went all golem on Irving. I think she and the Jinni truly bonded. The trance she went into was scary. I'm surprised the Jinni was able to stop her and bring her out. Do you think Anna will say anything?
I am not surprised by her outburst - she is a Golem and this is her very nature - why she can become so dangerous and why something was set in place by her maker to destroy her if need be.
45) What did you think of Chava's reaction to the fight? Can you believe she decided to marry Michael? I can't see that working. Can you. Can you understand the logic behind what she did? I surely can't. I think for once she's shown poor judgement.
I don't think this is necessarily poor judgement. Once again - she is a Golem. The author has explained this - she may be able to be more grounded if she has a master and maybe a replacement master is in order. All though, maybe it doesn't matter at this point or something more than her just marrying somebody is required to accomplish a true new master.
46) Interesting that after what happened to Chava we segue back to Fadwa. Does the Jinni see a bit of himself within Chava? Is that why she fascinates him? Is he remembering Fadwa with these memories or are we being fed pieces of his past by the author?
I think the Golem and the Jinni are opposites - not the same, but I think it helps them bring out new qualities in each other by their friendship - learning and being open to different ways of being by the influence of the other. They compliment each other - opposites attract.
47) Can I just say I really don't like Schaalman? He's so creepy. I wonder what his story is? Did we get the full picture or is there still something we don't know about him?
Am I the only one intrigued by himHe is like a wizard, who is into black magic. He is very talented - I mean look what he was able to create with the Golem.
48) Sophia did get pregnant and miscarry. I wonder if it is possible for a human to carry a Jinni's baby to full term? I wonder if she can recover?
Yeah she doesn't seem to be getting better?
49) How ironic that Schaalman would lead Chava down the isle. He seems to like having secrets. I wonder when his secret will come out?
I thought how appropriate. He is her maker - aren't our parents our makers. It would be the closest thing to her father.
Questions and Comments for Chapters 21 - 2250) In this section Chava reminded me of many people. She's trying to be someone she's not. I feel sorry for Michael because he had no idea what he was getting himself into when he married Chava. I wonder how he'll take this new knowledge about Chava. Can you imagine how you'd feel if you found out someone you cared about was a golem? Do you think he'll be able to accept her as she is?
51) I looked back at some of the passages from the Rabbi that I highlighted earlier and thought they were worth mentioning at this point.
“But love founded only on loneliness and desire will die out before long. A shared history, tradition, and values will link two people more thoroughly than any physical act.”
--I can't help but fee this applies to the situation with Chava and Michael.
~ AND ~
“Once a golem develops a taste for destruction,” the old rabbi said, “little can stop it save the words that destroy it. Not all golems are as crude or stupid as this one, but all share the same essential nature. They are tools of man, and they are dangerous. Once they have disposed of their enemies they will turn on their masters. They are creatures of last resort. Remember that.”
--Perhaps this explains what we saw with Chava in the last section.
52) Matthew's mothers death was sad. I wonder if the Jinni will take it upon himself to care for him?
53) I liked this statement by Chava:
“Ruby, I have made more mistakes than I can count. But when something goes wrong, it does no good to hide and cry. You have to take what you’ve learned, and keep going.”
54) I thought it interesting that Chava didn't notice she couldn't hear Schaalman's thoughts, but felt something wasn't right about him. I really like seeing how she's grown as a person as the story progresses. I think of her as Chava whereas I keep thinking of the Jinni as just that and not Ahmad. Does anyone else feel this way too?
55) Finally, we get almost the whole picture of how the Jinni was captured. If you were Abu Yusuf would you trust Ibn Malik? He strikes me as being as creepy as Schaalman.
I'm a Jinni in a bottle, baby. Come and rub me the right way, honey - Christina Aguilera
Questions and Comments for Chapters 16 - 17
35) Do you like the way Chava is starting to gain confidence and have a personality? I love the walks she and the Jinni take. It gives us a nice insight into her growth. I'm also beginning to see how these two are alike. Does it bother anyone that she's staying true to her original master's template?
Yes, I like the character development. We grow together with Chava and also with the Jinni. I'm not bothered by it, it seems to me Chava learned more from her relationship with the rabbi and from her walks with the Jinni. But her original master seems to have chosen well.
36) What do you think of the Jinni's God theory? What about Chava's?
37) The incident with Arbeely and the tin ceiling seems to emphasize how the Jinni never had to consider anyone else's opinions or fears. He's very impulsive. I think this part of the story shows the Jinni's growth. What struck you the most about this part of the story?
The Jinni's growth as well, he seems to have a better understanding of other peoples expectations and he is starting to think of the effects his actions can have on people.
38) I keep wondering if Sophia's going to end up pregnant. I wonder if a human and Jinni can produce offspring? The Rabbi's words keep going through my mind about consequences. Plus, the talk Chava and the Jinni about how he doesn't take into consideration what happens to anyone but himself seems like a forewarning.
39) I feel for Saleh. Can you imagine seeing the world so distortedly? I wonder why the Jinni couldn't remove the spark? Would he have caused more damage if he'd tried?
I'm not sure if he can help Saleh. I feel so sorry for Saleh and I have a feeling he has a bigger role to play yet.
40) I like how Chava seems to have a knowledge of the earth. She knew the shoot was there.
I think she has the knowledge because she is made from clay/earth, that's why she had such restless energie in the park, because she could feel the earth waking up after winter.
41) So the ceiling is a map of where the Jinni used to live? Any ideas as to why the palace isn't there? I wonder what it signifies?
Maybe, because he has accepted the place he is living now. Or it is invisible to him too because he is in human form.
42) I wonder what would happen if Chava hurt someone? Is that what the Rabbi and everyone who thought ill of golems were talking about? Do they go beserk or something? Any theories?
I think she will loose control and can't stop hurting. It's like the story the rabbi told about the golem he created, that when he gave the command to destroy the spider the golem couldn't stop with the destruction.
Questions for Chapters 4-67. I like how the Rabbi, while cautious with the Golem, is willing to give her a chance and see how she behaves. I found it heartwarming that he's teaching her his religion, and am enjoying how that leads to the two discussing beliefs and human behaviour. Did you like how the author did this?
I think the relationship with the two of them is lovely. She is a real companion for the Rabbi.
8. Do you think the Golem should have another master? Do you think she wants one? Can you imagine not having free will?
She seems to be doing fine with the Rabbi. He is enough of a master for her I think. Now she has a job she is gaining as much independence as I think she can deal with.
9. What did you think of the story of the Golem's creator, Yehudah? He found ancient texts with secrets handed down from Rabbi to Rabbi in a burnt synagogue? Knowledge he wasn't supposed to have.
That story did explain quite a lot about his character. I didn't expect him to have been to prison thugh. It was very weird hat he found the text in the drawer. Perhaps it was fate?
10. What were your thoughts of Yehudah's dream which made him decide to give up his dream of being a Rabbi? Do you think he reacted correctly or read too much into it?
I don't believe anyone should read too much into dreams as they are only a way of our brain sorting out our thoughts. I think he made a major decision based on something flimsy.
11. So Maryam is the one who gave Arbeely the jinni flask. I wonder if we'll find out where she got it?
I like Maryam. I haven't got a picture of her in my head yet though. I just don't feel like I'm gelling with the jinni story as much as the golem.
12. What did you think of Saleh's story? Is he partially possessed by an Ifrit or did it damage him before leaving?
He was the ice cream seller wasn't he? I think the Ifrit left him but part of its legacy remains.
13. I liked how the Golem took up cooking. I laughed at all she cooked. She seems pretty smart and self-sufficient. I also like how she knows so many languages. I wonder if she soaks up information from other peoples brains like she does their fears and desires?
It made me smile. I could just picture her up all night making cakes because she didn't have anything else to do. She is a really interesting character. I wonder what she looks like. I searched on Google and they only had clay ornaments. Do you think she has proper skin?
14. I like how the namings happened around the same time. The jinni will be known as Ahmad and the golem as Chava.
Apparently Ahmad means "more commendable" and Chava is the Hebrew form of Eve which means "to breathe" or "to live" which is quite apt.
15. What did you think of the Rabbi's nephew, Michael Levy? I'm surprised he has such different beliefs to his uncle
He seems nice but that's all I can say about him at the moment.
When asked--The incident with Arbeely and the tin ceiling seems to emphasize how the Jinni never had to consider anyone else's opinions or fears. He's very impulsive. I think this part of the story shows the Jinni's growth. What struck you the most about this part of the story?Imke said, "The Jinni's growth as well, he seems to have a better understanding of other peoples expectations and he is starting to think of the effects his actions can have on people."
I believe you're right. He's still got a long way to go, but he seems to be learning.
When asked, "I like how Chava seems to have a knowledge of the earth. She knew the shoot was there."Imke said, "I think she has the knowledge because she is made from clay/earth, that's why she had such restless energie in the park, because she could feel the earth waking up after winter."
I really liked this aspect of her and hope we see more.
Clare said, "I think the relationship with the two of them is lovely. She is a real companion for the Rabbi.I agree and I think she'd make an excellent student. She's clever, curious and has no preconceived notions about anything.
Clare said, "I don't believe anyone should read too much into dreams as they are only a way of our brain sorting out our thoughts. I think he made a major decision based on something flimsy."In real life I'd agree with you, but in stories they almost always hold significance to what is or will happen in the book. I always like to go back later and see if I can make the connection.
Questions and Comments for Chapters 21 - 2250) In this section Chava reminded me of many people. She's trying to be someone she's not. I feel sorry for Michael because he had no idea what he was getting himself into when he married Chava. I wonder how he'll take this new knowledge about Chava. Can you imagine how you'd feel if you found out someone you cared about was a golem? Do you think he'll be able to accept her as she is?
I think that he is not the right person to care for a Golem because personal wants and desires may cloud his judgement. Even his uncle was very aware of what he may have to be prepared for to stop the Golem if and when she becomes destructive - and the Golem had become his friend. Even though we have grown to like the Golem and the Jinni in reality they both seem to be creatures of dark magic. The Golem possesses this absolute destructive scary power that is foolish to say is not a part of her and the Jinni's need for entertainment seems to be destroying at least two women's lives - Sophie and Fadwa.
51) I looked back at some of the passages from the Rabbi that I highlighted earlier and thought they were worth mentioning at this point.
“But love founded only on loneliness and desire will die out before long. A shared history, tradition, and values will link two people more thoroughly than any physical act.”
--I can't help but fee this applies to the situation with Chava and Michael.
~ AND ~
“Once a golem develops a taste for destruction,” the old rabbi said, “little can stop it save the words that destroy it. Not all golems are as crude or stupid as this one, but all share the same essential nature. They are tools of man, and they are dangerous. Once they have disposed of their enemies they will turn on their masters. They are creatures of last resort. Remember that.”
--Perhaps this explains what we saw with Chava in the last section.
52) Matthew's mothers death was sad. I wonder if the Jinni will take it upon himself to care for him?
53) I liked this statement by Chava:
“Ruby, I have made more mistakes than I can count. But when something goes wrong, it does no good to hide and cry. You have to take what you’ve learned, and keep going.”
54) I thought it interesting that Chava didn't notice she couldn't hear Schaalman's thoughts, but felt something wasn't right about him. I really like seeing how she's grown as a person as the story progresses. I think of her as Chava whereas I keep thinking of the Jinni as just that and not Ahmad. Does anyone else feel this way too?
No - I see them both as The Golem and the Jinni - I have always remained weary of them both - even though they are the main characters. They are both good and bad.
55) Finally, we get almost the whole picture of how the Jinni was captured. If you were Abu Yusuf would you trust Ibn Malik? He strikes me as creepy as Schaalman.
The Jinni's relationship with Fadwa has seemed self serving and the effects of him entering her dreams has seemed to have taken a toll on her life and her mind - so that to me seems an evil act on his part. So I don't know who is necessarily more creepy here. I also see Schaalman as self serving but he may be the only one capable of stopping/destroying the Golem, which may eventually need to happen, and possibly the Jinni as well.
Questions and Comments for Chapters 13 - 15 29) I like the contrasts presented between the Jinni and the Golem--Male/Female--Hot/Cold--Trapped/Free--Arrogant/Meek--Old/Young... I think these two will become great friends. What's your opinion?
I was thinking introvert and extrovert. I heard it described once that an introvert recharges by being alone and an extrovert recharges by being with other people. I think it's interesting since the Golem is really an extrovert (she likes being around others) but keeps trying to be an introvert by staying in and the Jinni is an introvert (likes being alone) but keeps going out.
30) So the Rabbi taught Chava about the Jewish religion and now Arbeely is teaching the Jinni about Christ. Interesting. These two still seem to be a pair of matched opposites to me. What do you think? Could that be what the author is trying to do here? Could he be using the religions to symbolize they are different yet they stem from a common place? Is anyone else getting the impression this book will have an underlying lesson or message to it?
Maybe it's one of those learn what makes us the same type of thing? Or learn what humanity is? i.e. the when is it morally wrong to kill an AI.
31) Yehudah sees his dream as a means to gain immortality. Any idea as to how? I can't help but think that the binding spell the Rabbi created to a new master which he altered to require Chava's permission will somehow play an important roll later. I have to admit I'm wondering if there will be a happy ending or not with this one. Things could go very wrong or very right from this point.
I wonder if he'll end up turning himself into a golem. Since the master was obviously not immortal. Maybe he becomes a golem then gets bound to the Jinni so the Jinni can get fixed.
32) Do you like the switching between the Jinni's past and present? I can't help but think that Fadwa is somehow the key to his internment and enslavement. I just can't figure out how. Any ideas? Could she have helped in capturing him?
I wish they had better notations of the past/present transitions. I don't like them when they're stuck together. Too hard to context switch.
33) Once again Chava surprises us with her wisdom--“But I think, sometimes men want what they don’t have because they don’t have it. Even if everyone offered to share, they would only want the share that wasn’t theirs.” Could this be foreshadowing of something to come?
Maybe Michael goes nutso and binds her since he did find that scrap of paper. I'm betting it's a "once he has her forcefully it's not the same" type of thing.
34) Anyone else curious as to who the woman Yehudah once loved was and what happened to her? I got this crazy awful feeling/image that that grave he dug up may have something to do with Chava's creation. Could it also have something to do with the woman Yehudah talked of????
Hrm. Maybe. That might be why he's going after her.
Questions and Comments for Chapters 16 - 1735) Do you like the way Chava is starting to gain confidence and have a personality? I love the walks she and the Jinni take. It gives us a nice insight into her growth. I'm also beginning to see how these two are alike. Does it bother anyone that she's staying true to her original master's template?
That's kinda like her DNA though. You're always going to be who your building blocks indicate. At least on a certain level.
36) What do you think of the Jinni's God theory? What about Chava's?
I think everyone has their own theory on God even if they're religious.
37) The incident with Arbeely and the tin ceiling seems to emphasize how the Jinni never had to consider anyone else's opinions or fears. He's very impulsive. I think this part of the story shows the Jinni's growth. What struck you the most about this part of the story?
I think it's amusing since he did what he wanted and ended up getting something he didn't want (i.e. stake in the shop).
38) I keep wondering if Sophia's going to end up pregnant. I wonder if a human and Jinni can produce offspring? The Rabbi's words keep going through my mind about consequences. Plus, the talk Chava and the Jinni about how he doesn't take into consideration what happens to anyone but himself seems like a forewarning.
I suspect that a strange man showing up in her room and getting seen is going to not be good for her.
39) I feel for Saleh. Can you imagine seeing the world so distortedly? I wonder why the Jinni couldn't remove the spark? Would he have caused more damage if he'd tried?
Maybe it's because he's trapped in his human body? Or because it's stuck in him somehow.
40) I like how Chava seems to have a knowledge of the earth. She knew the shoot was there.
It's kinda like elemental type. Clay to earth.
41) So the ceiling is a map of where the Jinni used to live? Any ideas as to why the palace isn't there? I wonder what it signifies?
Maybe he can't stand to have everyone else see it when he can't go there.
42) I wonder what would happen if Chava hurt someone? Is that what the Rabbi and everyone who thought ill of golems were talking about? Do they go beserk or something? Any theories?
Maybe it's the being forced to do something they don't want to do that makes them go crazy? Like some golem form of PTSD?
Wait for Chapter 25 - wow, what a story. I always had my suspicions. That was one of my favorite parts of the book.
Questions and Comments for Chapters 23 - 2556) What did you make of Anna's blackmailing? Did you like the way the Jinni handled her?
58) The Jinni seemed very upset that Chava married Michael. Do you think his feelings run deeper than friendship for her and he just doesn't realize it?
58) I understand why the Jinni wanted to dissuade Matthew from thoughts of resurrecting his mother, but this was a situation he could have handled a little better. Do you think their relationship is over? Were you surprised the Jinni was hurt by the realization that Matthew had hoped the Jinni would help him? Could it have been an experience he needed to have in order to grow?
59) Why can Schaalman see the glass palace? There is something strange about that. It makes me wonder how the Jinni's powers are bound to him?
60) So am I correct in that Chava almost went full Golem on Michael, but was able to curb it? I guess as long as she doesn't hurt someone she's okay. Not a theory anyone would want to test.
61) Saleh finally got rid of the spark the ifrit had left behind. Why do you think he felt compelled to help Ahmad (notice I'm finally warming up to him being a little more human)?
62) I like how both the Golem and the Jinni internalize what the other would say in certain situations. They seem to admire one another, don't you think? Perhaps they see qualities in one another they know they lack?
63) The unfinished Ibis, what do you think it represents? Could it be how the Jinni sees himself?
64) Okay, fess up, did anyone suspect Schaalman would end up being Ibn Malik? What did you think of this revelation?
65) What did you think of how the final confinement of the Jinni in the bottle went down? Did you like how the memories of the two collided into almost one?
66) Any prediction of how this will affect the Jinni?
Sarah wrote: "Wait for Chapter 25 - wow, what a story. I always had my suspicions. That was one of my favorite parts of the book."Very true.
So after reading chapter 25 I couldn't stop until I read the rest. Here are the last set of question. Questions and Comments for Chapters 26 - end
67) If you got hold of Schaalman's book of spells, would you be tempted to use them? Do you think any good could truly come from using them? Should it be burned?
68) Were you surprised that Ahmed wanted to kill himself?
69) What did you think about the final showdown? Did you like it?
70) Did you like the way the author left things open ended for our own interpretation?
71) What are your final impressions/thoughts about the Golem and the Jinni? Did you end up liking one over the other? What do you foresee happening between these two?
72) Overall thoughts of the book? What will you rate it?
73) Do you have any favorite quotes?
FYI, This book is up for the Goodreads Choice Award for best in Fantasy. Here's the link to vote for it:
https://www.goodreads.com/choiceaward...
The author is also up for the Goodreads Choice Award for best debut author. Here's the link to vote for her:
https://www.goodreads.com/choiceaward...
Questions and Comments for Chapters 18 - 2043) So Schaalman found Chava and thought she'd been destroyed. So this means she was not what drove him to New York. I may need to revisit that dream. After reading this section, I think the Jinni may be what is drawing him, but as to why I haven't a clue.
She still could have drawn him there even if he thought she was destroyed. He didn't know what was drawing him.
44) I truly liked the dance hall scene until Chava went all golem on Irving. I think she and the Jinni truly bonded. The trance she went into was scary. I'm surprised the Jinni was able to stop her and bring her out. Do you think Anna will say anything?
I don't think she'll say anything. She probably wouldn't be believed anyway. Maybe if Chava gets revealed some other way first. I think they had bonded pretty well but Chava is too scared of herself to let anyone else help.
45) What did you think of Chava's reaction to the fight? Can you believe she decided to marry Michael? I can't see that working. Can you. Can you understand the logic behind what she did? I surely can't. I think for once she's shown poor judgement.
I wonder if she's trying to make it so she can't go out anymore? Or trying to make it so she has a master of types. Up until recently it was much more said that the husband is master of the wife and very much so in most biblical texts.
46) Interesting that after what happened to Chava we segue back to Fadwa. Does the Jinni see a bit of himself within Chava? Is that why she fascinates him? Is he remembering Fadwa with these memories or are we being fed pieces of his past by the author?
I wonder if it's about women he's cared for that he's lost. I think it's the author feeding stuff back for the most part but there have been some segments that he seems to have remembered.
47) Can I just say I really don't like Schaalman? He's so creepy. I wonder what his story is? Did we get the full picture or is there still something we don't know about him?
Seems like he's just very greedy and willing to do whatever he wants at the cost of others.
48) Sophia did get pregnant and miscarry. I wonder if it is possible for a human to carry a Jinni's baby to full term? I wonder if she can recover?
3 months doesn't bode well for a human being able to carry full term. Then again who knows what a full term Jinni baby would be. Plus he's trapped right now so I wonder if that changes anything. Maybe she has to stay with him somehow to be healed?
49) How ironic that Schaalman would lead Chava down the isle. He seems to like having secrets. I wonder when his secret will come out?
I imagine he'll try to do something to steal the life of either Chava or the Jinni.
Kelly said, "I wonder if she's trying to make it so she can't go out anymore? Or trying to make it so she has a master of types. Up until recently it was much more said that the husband is master of the wife and very much so in most biblical texts."Very true. I could see that.
Kelly said, "3 months doesn't bode well for a human being able to carry full term. Then again who knows what a full term Jinni baby would be. Plus he's trapped right now so I wonder if that changes anything. Maybe she has to stay with him somehow to be healed?"It makes you wonder, doesn't it? I could see the shivering even with a regular miscarriage, but since the Jinni's are described as being flame it seems significant.
Questions and Comments for Chapters 21 - 2250) In this section Chava reminded me of many people. She's trying to be someone she's not. I feel sorry for Michael because he had no idea what he was getting himself into when he married Chava. I wonder how he'll take this new knowledge about Chava. Can you imagine how you'd feel if you found out someone you cared about was a golem? Do you think he'll be able to accept her as she is?
I think it was wrong of her to marry him without telling him. I think I'd feel the same way about someone not informing another person that they're barren before getting married but obviously to a whole new level.
51) I looked back at some of the passages from the Rabbi that I highlighted earlier and thought they were worth mentioning at this point.
“But love founded only on loneliness and desire will die out before long. A shared history, tradition, and values will link two people more thoroughly than any physical act.”
--I can't help but fee this applies to the situation with Chava and Michael.
~ AND ~
“Once a golem develops a taste for destruction,” the old rabbi said, “little can stop it save the words that destroy it. Not all golems are as crude or stupid as this one, but all share the same essential nature. They are tools of man, and they are dangerous. Once they have disposed of their enemies they will turn on their masters. They are creatures of last resort. Remember that.”
--Perhaps this explains what we saw with Chava in the last section.
Chava's loneliness and Micahel's desire. I guess he never knew what he was lusting after.
52) Matthew's mothers death was sad. I wonder if the Jinni will take it upon himself to care for him?
I should hope so. He seems to like the kid well enough. It seemed like he was mostly caring for him already.
53) I liked this statement by Chava:
“Ruby, I have made more mistakes than I can count. But when something goes wrong, it does no good to hide and cry. You have to take what you’ve learned, and keep going.”
I don't think Chava would have gotten very far if she got hung up on every mistake.
54) I thought it interesting that Chava didn't notice she couldn't hear Schaalman's thoughts, but felt something wasn't right about him. I really like seeing how she's grown as a person as the story progresses. I think of her as Chava whereas I keep thinking of the Jinni as just that and not Ahmad. Does anyone else feel this way too?
I always thought it was because Chava was an easier name for me to remember than Ahmad. Or it's because they rarely say Golem but often say Jinni. I wonder if someone from a different culture would have a different response to the names.
If I was Chava, I'd find it a lot more suspicious that I couldn't read his thoughts at all, he kept making strange references and he was looking for the books.
55) Finally, we get almost the whole picture of how the Jinni was captured. If you were Abu Yusuf would you trust Ibn Malik? He strikes me as being as creepy as Schaalman.
I'm not sure he had much of a choice but to trust him at that point. There weren't other options.
Questions for Ch 7-916. Were you surprised that the Jinni decided to follow Sophia? Was his action predictable after all the "suffering" of the nonsense wedding?
No, I wasn't surprised he followed Sophia as I think he is really lonely and looking for a connection. The wedding probably just showed him what it is like to be in a relationship with someone and he felt more awkward than normal at the wedding.
17. Thoughts of Sophia? She looks resigned with her fate but her dreams say otherwise.
She was an interesting character - just like the jinni was trapped in the lamp is she is trapped in her 'destiny'. I think that is how things are done and she knows she has to get on with it.
18. I'm wondering what darker books and what is the meaning of all the rabbi's research? The whole tiny golem and spider recount doesn't bode well.
No idea abut this at the moment. I wonder whether that story was an omen?
19. The bread eating experience was a little TMI for my tastes. But watching the Golem using props and learning new things, like sewing, is quite interesting don't you think?
I suppose she hasn't got all the inner bodily workings so she doesn't signets food properly so the poo at the end was odd. I find it fascinating for her to learn new things. It reminds how much we all take for granted.
20. Sophia and the Jinni, that doesn't seem wise. Will he be back? Would they be caught?
It is a very risky business. It is amazing that he started to tell her abut himself. His story is nothing you would ever believe is it? They are bound to be caught, it's only a matter of time.
21. What do you think of Fadwa's dream/vision with the jinni?
It's a bit odd how the book suddenly keeps jumping back to the desert and th jinni's previous life. The dream was weird, especially as she could sense both the dream and lying in bed at the same time. I don't think I can sense that when I'm dreaming.
Questions and Comments for Chapters 23 - 2556) What did you make of Anna's blackmailing? Did you like the way the Jinni handled her?
I suppose when your options get real bad you resort to anything you need to. I'm not sure I would have tried to threaten him more while he was there... since if he killed her then she couldn't talk to anyone too.
57) The Jinni seemed very upset that Chava married Michael. Do you think his feelings run deeper than friendship for her and he just doesn't realize it?
I wonder if it's because she gave up her freedom and that's what he keeps seeking.
58) I understand why the Jinni wanted to dissuade Matthew from thoughts of resurrecting his mother, but this was a situation he could have handled a little better. Do you think their relationship is over? Were you surprised the Jinni was hurt by the realization that Matthew had hoped the Jinni would help him? Could it have been an experience he needed to have in order to grow?
I wonder if it was Fadwa's influence that caused some of that confrontation. I was surprised that he lost all of his friends from the one incident though.
59) Why can Schaalman see the glass palace? There is something strange about that. It makes me wonder how the Jinni's powers are bound to him?
He was in it before though when he got invited in. Maybe it's one of those you can only see it if you've been there deals?
60) So am I correct in that Chava almost went full Golem on Michael, but was able to curb it? I guess as long as she doesn't hurt someone she's okay. Not a theory anyone would want to test.
I wonder if it has to do with what others wish. Since the other time she lost control was when there were lots of wishes going aorund.
61) Saleh finally got rid of the spark the ifrit had left behind. Why do you think he felt compelled to help Ahmad (notice I'm finally warming up to him being a little more human)?
I think before it said the ifrit's didn't like the Jinni's. I wonder if that was influencing it.
62) I like how both the Golem and the Jinni internalize what the other would say in certain situations. They seem to admire one another, don't you think? Perhaps they see qualities in one another they know they lack?
It feels like it's two outsiders that are bound together by the fact that they're not part of the world they're living in.
63) The unfinished Ibis, what do you think it represents? Could it be how the Jinni sees himself?
I wonder if he was making it for someone.
64) Okay, fess up, did anyone suspect Schaalman would end up being Ibn Malik? What did you think of this revelation?
I kinda thought he was but I didn't catch the reborn thing. They acted too similar to not be the same or related somehow.
65) What did you think of how the final confinement of the Jinni in the bottle went down? Did you like how the memories of the two collided into almost one?
I think the Jinni has a right to be royally pissed.
66) Any prediction of how this will affect the Jinni?
I sure hope he kicks Schaalman's butt....
Questions and Comments for Chapters 26 - end67) If you got hold of Schaalman's book of spells, would you be tempted to use them? Do you think any good could truly come from using them? Should it be burned?
Hrm. Yeah I'd probably be tempted, but none of those types of things ever work out. Plus who knows what the fine print may be. You may get abundant food by stealing it from elsewhere in the world. And people grow from their hardships so you'd be changing who they are if you make them forget.
I want to say burn it, but you'd think you'd want to save it somewhere in case of huge emergency (i.e. world ending type thing) as a last resort it can't make things worse.
68) Were you surprised that Ahmed wanted to kill himself?
A little. He always seemed so self centered before, but I suppose learning all the horrible things that happened would make anyone depressed.
69) What did you think about the final showdown? Did you like it?
I liked it but found it a little hard to follow exactly who did what at some points. A lot of "He turned to him" type of statements.
70) Did you like the way the author left things open ended for our own interpretation?
I thought it got wrapped up pretty nicely.
71) What are your final impressions/thoughts about the Golem and the Jinni? Did you end up liking one over the other? What do you foresee happening between these two?
I think they'll stay friends. Then again, earlier the Rabbi (I think) said that friends and likes do better for marriage than attraction so maybe they will end up together. They're uniquely suited to help each other.
72) Overall thoughts of the book? What will you rate it?
I liked it a lot. It was definitely dense but interesting. I'll do the full 5 stars.
73) Do you have any favorite quotes?
I read the paper version so I can't go back and look for any of them easily.
I gave it four stars.
Questions for Ch 10-1222. what do you think Yehudah's vision meant? That the Golem is the key to his research? Or that somehow part of Rotfeld's soul passed to Chava?
I think Yehudah is really quite scary and now he is in America with Chava. Can't remember the vision.
23. I wish we could learn more about Fadwa and the Jinni. Those little glimpses of the past are making me like Alice, curious and curious.
Yes I wonder how they are going to link, I presume it will lead to how he got in the map but it sounds like Fadwa could have been a romance?
24. The Jinni and the Golem finally meet. Did you expect it would go that way? I was expecting that at least the Jinni knew what the Golem was. But I liked how they seemed to recognise that they were both not normal.
It was an odd meeting but I guess it did go as I expected as Chava is quite stubborn so I didn't think she would meet him and just go with it. It was strange that they can both see the fire and clay in each other.
25. And what about the ice cream seller? He seemed to see the Jinni's true nature as well.
I was intrigued with the fact that he couldn't stare at people's faces.
Is the ice cream seller Yehudah? I don't know why he can't stare at the faces but he can stare at Chava's can't he?
26. The commands for the golem letter is safe and in Chava's hands.
But I keep worrying with the changing masters formula bound to be found with someone else. Specially Yehudah. Too dangerous to be unconcerned. I'm wondering if Chava can activate the destroy command herself.
I don't think the letter is safe in Chava's hands as she could use it, I don't know how but it worries me. I wonder if she has to have a master to destroy her?
27. It does seem that everyone around Chava is bound to an early dismiss. First the master. The the Rabbi. Now Michael?
Michael isn't dead though is he? He is just in a mental institute I thought. I wonder if she will find him and try to get him out.
28. Each chapter makes Yehudah darker and more dangerous.
I find Yehudah really a scary. He is sinister and I am worried that he will have a large effect on the jinni and the golem. Why else would he end up in America?
Questions for Ch 13-1529. I like the contrasts between the Jinni and Golem...I think these two will become great friends. What's your opinion?
I really hope so as their friendship is a release for both of them, a time when they can both be honest.
30. So the Rabbi taught Chava about the Jewish religion and now Arbeely is teaching the Jinni about Christ. Interesting. These two still seem to be a pair of matched opposite to me. What do you think? Could that be what the author is trying to do here? Could he be using the religions to symbolise that they are different yet they stem from a common place? Is anyone else getting the impression that this book will have an underlying message or lesson to it?
I hadn't thought about this aspect before although of course I realised they were differs. I think the religion thing is interesting but they don't come from the same source do they, the only thing that links them I suppose is magic.
31. Yehudah sees his dream as a means to gain immortality. Any idea as to how? I can't help but think that the binding spell the Rabbi created to a new master which he altered to require Chava's permission will somehow play an important role later. I have to admit I'm wondering if there will be a happy ending or not with this one. Things could go very ring or very right from this point.
Yehudah definitely has some sort of sinister plan. What is the thing with the bits of paper? Is he trying to create another spell? I imagine that Chava will get destroyed int he end but I hope not.
32. Do you like the switching between the Jinni's past and present? I can't help but think that Fadwa is the key to his internment and enslavement. I just can't figure out how. Any ideas? Could she have helped in capturing him?
I wonder whether she will sleep with him and her father will find out and will arrange for the Jinni to be captured.
33. Once again Chava surprises us with her wisdom: "But I think, sometimes men want what they don't have because they don't have it. Even if everyone offered to share, they would only want the share that wasn't theirs." Could this be foreshadowing of things to come?
I liked the quote but at the moment I don't know how it relates to anything.
34. Anyone else curious as to who the woman Yehudah once loved was and what happened to her?
I assumed that he was just thinking of something to say and that it wasn't true....although it could be Chava as he did take a long time to make her.
Kelly said, "I think they'll stay friends. Then again, earlier the Rabbi (I think) said that friends and likes do better for marriage than attraction so maybe they will end up together. They're uniquely suited to help each other."I'd forgotten about that. This is the part where I felt the author left things for our own interpretation, hence, my open ended statement. I think they end up together too even though Chava didn't think they would.
Questions for Ch 16-1735. Do you like the way Chava is starting to gain confidence and have a personality?
I like Chava and her independence but it worries me as how is this going to end. She is not a real person at the end of the day.
36. What do you think about the jinni's god theory? And Chava's?
I can see what he is saying and when you hear it from his point of view it does sound a bit unrealistic. Religion always depends on where you are coming from. You can make it sound totally believable or totally insane depending on how you describe and which bits you emphasise. Either could be true I suppose, we will never know.
37. The tin ceiling - what struck you most about this part of the story?
For me, this was about the jinni's independence, just as Chava is getting independent so is the jinni. He took on the project without asking Arbeely's permission. He obviously had faith in his ability.
38. Sophia and getting pregnant?
Yes I am waiting for that too. I suppose if they can have sex they could possibly have children. That would be an interesting twist to the story.
39. Saleh - seeing the world so distortedly?
I feel very sorry for him. Fancy not being able to look at anyone.
40. Chava seems to have a knowledge of the world
I suppose Chava has been given the intelligence that a normal person would have.
41. So the ceiling is a map of where the jinni used to live?
I thought it sounded amazing although I couldn't really imagine a tin roof or what it would look like. Why did he not show the palace? Maybe he was trying to show what a person would see?
42. I wonder what would happen if Chava hurt someone?
I don't know about that but I reckon if someone hurt her she would immediately retaliate in an over the top way. I wonder if she would destroy herself if she hurt someone. Maybe most golems wouldn't but she is very intelligent.
Clare said, "For me, this was about the jinni's independence, just as Chava is getting independent so is the jinni. He took on the project without asking Arbeely's permission. He obviously had faith in his ability."I hadn't thought of that way, but I believe you're right. Still I don't think he realizes how the financial part of a business runs, but then I doubt he'd ever before had to worry about it.
I'm getting really into this book now so I'm just going to read to the end so I can start Kiss Me First
I still hope someone will want to drop in and read/discuss this with me. :)Chapters 1-3
1) What is your first impression of the Golem? Are you impressed? Did you like how she tried to help the boy? Do you like that she can feel what others feel?
I pity the Golem. I think her predicament is uniquely sad knowing the thoughts and desires of everyone around her and
2) If you were to make a Golem, what traits would you want in it? Did Otto, her master, choose wisely?
Compared to the preconceived notions of what Golem should be, I think Otto pretty much picked good traits for the Golem. Even her maker was surprised at the traits that Otto picked.
3) Do you think the Golem will cause trouble or surprise the Rabbi?
I think the Golem will surprise and cause trouble for the Rabbi.
4) What is your first impression of the Jinni? Do you feel sorry for him? I can't imagine being locked up for so long. I don't care what your life span is I'm surprised he didn't go insane. I wonder how his bottle ended up in New York?
I hope the book explains how the Jinni ended up inside the bottle before I get halfway.
5) Do you think the wizard who locked the Jinni in the bottle and human form is still around or do you think the Jinni is right and he's dead? Do you think the Jinni will be stuck as a human forever or will he gain his powers back?
I think the wizard is dead by now but maybe someone else holds the secret on how to release the Jinni from the curse.
6) Which story do you find more compelling--the Golem's or the Jinni's or are you hooked on both? Has the author managed to capture your interest? Who do you think, of the two, will prove to be more troublesome?
I’m hooked on wanting to know how the Jinni got into the bottle more than wondering how the Golem will fare.
I read this book about 4 months ago or so now, and I was absolutely enthralled, it was eloquently written. I agree with you, at this point in the novel I was really interested in the mythos of the Jinni and how he got there. The man who found him also interested me, I don't know how I would act if I suddenly found myself in front of a bona fide Jinni, but I like how he reacted.
I love the Golem, I think the traits chosen for her were so perfect, her curiosity really spoke to me. For a creature, she has a lot of personality, and I really pitied her and the predicament she found herself in and was very happy to see the Rabbi take her in.
Chapters 4 - 67) I like how the Rabbi, while cautious with the Golem, is willing to give her a chance and see how she behaves. I found it heartwarming that he's teaching her his religion and am enjoying how that leads to the two discussing beliefs and human behavior. Did you like how the author did this?
I appreciate it because I think it gave more credence to the story. The Rabbi is a very spiritual person and I think his actions spoke highly of the man that he is.
8)Do you think the Golem should have another master? Do you think she wants one? Can you imagine not having free will? Did anyone ever read or see Ella the Enchanted?
If Ella the Enchanted is the one with Anne Hathaway, yes I’ve seen it but (sadly) I don’t remember any of it. I think the Golem got lucky with the Rabbi and should stick with him until she can live on her own. There were no hints whatsoever that the Golem was thinking of wanting a new master not because she’s not thinking it but I think more because she’s too busy warding off the desires and thoughts of people around her that she doesn’t really linger on her own thoughts and desires.
9) What did you think of the story of the Golem's creator, Yehudah? He found ancient texts with secrets handed down from Rabbi to Rabbi in a burnt synagogue? Knowledge he wasn't supposed to have.
Honestly, I just wanted the story to shift back to the Golem or the Jinni. I don’t see (yet) the importance of dedicating several pages on how the Golem’s creator came about his dark secrets. Maybe it plays a great part on the story as a whole but I don’t want to be bothered with it right now.
10)What were your thoughts of Yehudah's dream which made him decide to give up his dream of being a Rabbi? Do you think he reacted correctly or read too much into it?
I strongly think he read too much of it!
11) So Maryam is the one who gave Arbeely the Jinni flask. I wonder if we'll find out where she got it?
Oh definitely and I can’t wait to learn where she got it. Maybe unknowingly she also got the secret on how to release the Jinni from the curse.
12) What did you think of Saleh's story? Is he partially possessed by an Ifrit or did it damaged him before leaving?
It was such a sad story (why is everybody’s story soo sad?) and I think it left him damaged in all aspects. He’s a broken man.
13) I liked how the Golem took up cooking. I laughed at all she cooked. She seems pretty smart and self sufficient. I also like how she knows so many languages. I wonder if she soaks up information from other people's brains like she does their fears and desires?
I wouldn’t being the Rabbi with all the cooking the Golem is doing for him.
14) I like how the namings happened around the same time. The Jinni will be known as Ahmad and the Golem as Chava.
Ah that, yes.
15) What did you think of the Rabbi's nephew, Michael Levy? I'm surprised he'd have such different beliefs than his uncle.
I didn’t really take notice of him. If he pops out again then I’ll try to pick apart his character.
Corey wrote: "I read this book about 4 months ago or so now, and I was absolutely enthralled, it was eloquently written. I agree with you, at this point in the novel I was really interested in the mythos of th..."
I've read this on and off for a few weeks now. I find the story of the Jinni and his guardian more interesting than the Golem's. I think its more due to the fact that he's leading a more 'exciting' life than the Golem who's going through, for me, a monotonous pace.
I like your comments, it's interesting to see how differently people take in a book. I personally enjoy histories and back stories so I really enjoyed Yahuda's story, i don't know why I enjoyed the Golem so much but I think that's another reason I enjoyed his story, is understanding how he was able to do it. I definitely preferred the Jinni's story, he's impulsive and can't be restrained to Arbeeli's store. At some point I can't remember when I stopped reading and just downloaded the audio book, and it made it so much easier to enjoy the story.
I didn't know what to think of the nephew either. I liked his difference in faith and beliefs, and values as I see that a lot in my family, so I think it struck a chord for me.
I like your comments, it's interesting to see how differently people take in a book. I personally enjoy histories and back stories so I really enjoyed Yahuda's story, i don't know why I enjoyed the Golem so much but I think that's another reason I enjoyed his story, is understanding how he was able to do it. I definitely preferred the Jinni's story, he's impulsive and can't be restrained to Arbeeli's store. At some point I can't remember when I stopped reading and just downloaded the audio book, and it made it so much easier to enjoy the story.
I didn't know what to think of the nephew either. I liked his difference in faith and beliefs, and values as I see that a lot in my family, so I think it struck a chord for me.
Corey wrote: "I like your comments, it's interesting to see how differently people take in a book. I personally enjoy histories and back stories so I really enjoyed Yahuda's story, i don't know why I enjoyed the..."I appreciate the importance of back stories/history but it does not make me a fan :) (especailly if it's not the MC's story). I like reading them but in the back of my mind Im all "hurry up and get back to the present will you?"
I finally got past Chapter 8 where the Golem got herself a job. Maybe it would get interesting for her from now on. She's not as stoic now.
It's admirable how passionate the nephew is in his work but a pity that he's in a limbo regarding his faith. If he makes future appearances I hope he resolves that.
Hm, maybe I'll try the audio book.
22)What do you think Yehudah vision meant? That the Golem is the key to his research? Or that somehow part of Rotfeld's soul passed to Chava?
I wonder if she'd live forever since she's not really human.
23)I wish we could learn more about Fadwa and the Jinni. Those little glimpses from the past are making me like Alice, curious and curious.
I'm guessing she played a pivotal role in either his capture or his interest in humans.
24)The Jinni and the Golem finally meet. Where you expected it would go that way? I was expecting that at least the Jinni knew what a Golem was. But I liked how they seem to recognize the other as not normal.
They are from different cultures. Did it ever say when the Golems were first created? Maybe they were made after he was imprisoned. I suppose you probably wouldn't want your culture's greatest secrets getting out.
25)And what about the ice cream maker? He seemed to see the Jinni's true nature as well. I was intrigued by the fact that he could not stare at people's faces.
Probably because he was inhabited by an ifrit which is fire as well.
26) The Commands for the Golem envelope is safe and in Chava's hands. But I keep worrying with the changing masters formula bound to be found to someone else. Specially Yehudah . Too dangerous to be left unconcerned. I'm wondering if Chava can "activate" the destroy command herself.
Doesn't Michael have a part of it too though? Or at least the part that binds her to a new master.
27) It does seem that everybody around Chava is bound to an early dismiss. First her master. Then the Rabbi. Now Michael?
Eih. We knew the Rabbi was going to die since he was old. I wouldn't say she's cursed with that. Though I guess she could be sucking life out of people. I'd expect if that was the case then the Rabbi would have died really fast while the master lingered awhile.
28) Each chapter makes Yehudah look darker and dangerous. I believe they could be "nicer" forms of distracting the health inspectors than curse and drive an innocent man crazy/sick.
Hrm. Maybe it's like the IRS or the DMV where everyone fantasizes about murder :)