Zombies! discussion
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Tankbread
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October Group Read #1: Tankbread
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Netanella
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rated it 5 stars
Oct 11, 2013 07:29PM
The Henry Fonda flick looks good...
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Okay...here goes. I can never tell when a herd of gamblers is gonna stroll through the door like hungry evols, so I'll answer what I can for now. #1. Yes, Else's rehabilitation or curing or WHATEVER was seriously skipped over. Like 'Whaaa...' skipped over. I was scratching my head, thinking 'Well, geez...this was like the WHOLE point! And we got nil for description on what took place in her recovery. Heck, we DON'T know whether Bad Dog visited her or sat with her during her recovery...there wasn't enough info to assume he wasn't doing anything but screwing Donna. And what's up with her superhuman life span now? I am not even going to hazard a guess as to what this means for the rest of the book. (Tammy: for some unknown reason, I want to believe in Bad Dog's 'good side,' I guess...I don't know WHAT it is, I just like him for all his flaws...maybe BECAUSE of his flaws. Who knows how a zompocalypse would change ya, you know? I don't know...I DEFINITELY see sexist overtones, but I'm really, really, REALLY hoping Bad Dog does some great redeeming thing to show he's a good guy deep down...
#2. Okay...wow...another WTF? moment here. Like, where are all the children if there's a breeding program going on??? We DIDN'T see any, correct? And we have a f#&king apocalypse going on, and the doctors are working on friggin fertility patches??? REALLY??? You don't have ANYTHING better to work on??? Like um...well...A CURE???? And, Randy: from what I understand (which isn't much, well let's say a lot of the book isn't CLEARLY understood by me), I THINK they were working on the breeding program because there ISN'T a Tankbread facility left anymore. Although, now that they have Bad Dog's semen, Dr. Singh or Dr. Wainright is planning on making 'hundreds of clones.' So are these clones Tankbread? Are they hybrids between Else and Bad Dog? Or are they simply in vitro fertilization fetuses??? I don't know...I confused. I always end up confusing myself further when trying to read deeper into this book...all I know is that Donna is preggers now (right?), and there won't be much of anything going on at Woomera anymore (I wonder if Woomera is a play on words...having a clear 'womb' sound and all...I know its a real place, but maybe that swayed Paul into choosing it?).
Anyway...I THINK I may have figured out what's going on here. You know how some books are 'just for fun,' and 'a quick read'? I think that's exactly what we have here. This book isn't MEANT to be dissected. Its meant to be consumed as fast as brains to the evols, and not thought too heavily upon. At least that's the impression I'm getting the more and more I think about it. You know, kinda like a sitcom...good for enjoyment, but not meant to be too 'heavy' or 'thought-provoking.'
AND....I started this at 10:15 or so EST time, and its now over 2 hours later...I keep having to get up to tend to the customers, so I'm gonna save the rest for tonite (IF I'm not dead on my feet by the time I get home at 3:30-4:00 A.M. :-( ), or tomorrow afternoon-ish due to my inevitable sleeping in lol. If I get a chance, I'll answer more while I'm here at work, but only if we die down...its just too hectic trying to coherently answer while I have to keep putting my phone down every 5 minutes. Plus, this REALLY sucks to do through the app- I can't scroll up to refer to y'all's opinions and responses. Anywho, until I can hop on here again, happy reading, guys!
Dr. Wainright is dead. In a very predictable set of events he bit the big one by being a hero, so our anti-hero and his mini- Harem could escape page 196 .Woomera is a real place in Australia.
Dr Signh never made it out of Woomera. I assumed he died, but that whole escape scene when by in a flash.
Donna is not pregnant page 219, but has big dreams of creating a brand new master race.
If these characters are an example of Australians, than I say "let them all die off!''
Teresa said, ''... Anyway...I THINK I may have figured out what's going on here. You know how some books are 'just for fun,' and 'a quick read'? I think that's exactly what we have here. This book isn't MEANT to be dissected. Its meant to be consumed as fast as brains to the evols, and not thought too heavily upon. At least that's the impression I'm getting the more and more I think about it. You know, kinda like a sitcom...good for enjoyment, but not meant to be too 'heavy' or 'thought-provoking.'.."This website is all about finding and sharing good reads aka books.
A book of the month is about breaking down a book, sharing thoughts, insights, expectations, disappointments, and so on about that book.
Netanella offered up this book for the BOTM.
I admit to voting for it as well.
So at least two of us are responsible for this up close examination of this book.
Here we all are now talking about why and how this book measures up or failed to measure up.
The question that will be answered by us individually is, is this a good read?
1 star hated it
2 star didn't like it
3 star, it was OK, an average read
4 star, like it a lot, better than an average read
5 star, loved it, super duper read
and if course why?
What made this work or "not' work for you?
Please note the two whom claim to be enjoying this read are surely silent on what makes this work for them.
Also not all books are able to withstand a break down this deep.
It's like anything else in the world, if you stare at it too closely you'll see things you'd wish you hadn't.
This last part is why I practically begged our fellow group members to please chose books for the BOTM that they were sure were good books.
Yeah, Tammy...I forgot that scene where Donna said 'I'm not pregnant.' Cause, well, it was only one line! Everything is going too fast! I'm still enjoying this book in the sense that it IS a quick read, and I DO have a weakness for glorified violence and unnecessary gore (I know, I'm a sicko). But I voted for this as well, so that makes at least 3 of us. I will be very happy to conclude...I guess I'm optimistic about some things, and I'm holding out hope that SOMETHING good will happen; if not, I fear this will not get a high rating from me. At this point, the only things making me like this read (IF I was one of the 2 you were speaking of), besides the obvious hope of some wonderful conclusion (meh...kinda doubt), is the fast pace (although it is going too fast now- I think it was perfect pace thru the second chunk-this chunk was a downhill point in pacing), and my deep love for Else. I believe she is the most complex character in the whole book, and I want very much to get some closure on her. We shall see!I LOVE your line about looking too closely and seeing things you don't want to see. Very true.
Also, I think the problem with having someone in the BOTM KNOW that the book was/is good is that they would have had to read it before. Part of the appeal to me is reading new books. HOWEVER...if one book of the month read was CHOSEN, by one of us that had already read the book and REALLY liked it (for whatever reasons), and would be the mod (already being familiar with the book, etc.), it might be a way to really bond the group. We would learn WHY your favorite zombie book is so special to YOU, and how the rest of the group felt about it. I know what I would chose! LOL...but that may be something just a few of us could start a new thread for. Anyway, good bouncing ideas and thoughts of ya, Tammy. I babbled away, and am now slowly falling asleep with my phone in my hand. TO THE COMPUTER IN THE A.M.!!! I'll add the rest of my answers and thoughts then...
Oh, and I know the Docs are dead, Tammy...I should have said 'They WERE gonna make some sort of clone,' past tense, not present...cause I as said at the end of that paragraph were the only things I DID know (which were that 'Donna was pregnant'- which was WRONG lol, and that NOTHING will be going on at Woomera now). Since I was wrong about the pregnancy, I can see how you thought maybe I wasn't paying close enough attention. Which, I'll honestly admit, I have a little trouble doing at times. I make a TON of notes, and still forget certain things. Like on page 215 BD says something about Wittabarra and Crystal Brook. Can someone, anyone, remind me of where and what Crystal Brook was? I highlighted it, and flipped back through, and couldn't remember anything about it OR find a reference to it. But I didn't flip back too far either, so whatevs...maybe its my fault. Anyway...I don't know WHAT I'm talking about cause I'm so sleepy. Talk to you guys in A.M. :-)
Was Crystal Brook the town where BD killed the old man?I also voted for this book, BECAUSE I hadn't read it yet and wanted to. So far, I'm not disappointed, as it has been entertaining.
I liked the early pace, but everything felt rushed after Port Germein. We were just hit bam-bam-bam with weird things. Almost more like an outline than a story.
But I still want to know who is controlling the evols. :)
Tammy, I voted for this book, not because I knew if it was good or bad, but because I was intrigued by the reviews and thought it looked like a "goodread." There is no way I could be entirely sure if it were good or bad until I actually read it, and truthfully, I did not want to read it by myself if we were to do a group read with it. Having said that, I finished this puppy last night, and I would rate it...wait for it...wait for it...4 1/2. (I like fractions, especially improper ones as they remind me of Dolly Parton.) Why do I think it is so stellar? For zombie fiction, it hits all the salient points and leaves them smeared with blood. It's fast, it's gory, it's got gratuitous violence AND sex. There are nuns in helicopters and flesh-eating pigs. There's an epic cross-Australia quest to save a young girl's life (and the whole world). And our boy, Bad Dog, gets to redeem himself in the final climactic battle sequence in the end.
1/2 point off because of editing fixes and pacing. Otherwise, I truly truly enjoyed this book and tip my virtual hat to Mr. Paul for a great read.
And by the way, getting to share the book with all y'all, as they say in the South, was also a major part of the enjoyment!
Okay, I'm awake now! So here goes with the rest of the questions:#3. I really don't think Bad Dog intends on having babies with Else, and he's an ASSHOLE for insinuating he would. We all know she WILL NOT forget, and it was just something (IMO) that he said to keep her quiet while he was trying to formulate a plan. So, while it WAS a totally offhanded comment, I DON'T believe it was 'merely a slip of the tongue' or anything like that. And that REALLY makes me mad because BD knows Else better than anyone, so he ought to know that she will, indeed, remember, and come after him for those babies later!!!
#4. The nuns...well...yes, I WOULD say that their change IS consistent with the overall thrust of the book. EVERYTHING is changing ALL THE TIME, WAY too fast. So the sudden change didn't REALLY surprise me, although I was disappointed to see the shift they had made. I liked to think of them as a beacon of goodness in an immoral, shitty world. Not anymore! Although, if you go back to the second section, where Else is 'discovering' her lady bits, and points to BD's dong, she says "Oh...that goes in here!'all proud of herself for having 'figured it out.' But she also refers to a bunch of magazines the nuns had showing the same thing. So the nuns OBVIOUSLY had a bunch of porn. How moral were they to begin with??? And I agree with Randy- the rest of the nuns follow Sister Mary blindly.
#5. Wow, Elizabeth! GREAT question. I am not familiar with the bible AT ALL…its one if my deepest regrets (although, there IS time for me to read it yet). But yes, that passage DID strike a chord with me. I would have NEVER caught it if you hadn’t pointed it out, but when comparing the two passages, they DO seem remarkably similar. But, and this is a big but, I DON’T think that was Paul’s intention. I could be wrong, but I don’t think this book is that ‘deep’ of a read. Who knows? Else coulda been drawing naughty pictures in the sand for all we know…or message to the evols, or, well, anything, really. So you got me! No clue on this one!
#6. There actually were a lot of things that stood out to me during this section of reading, I must admit. I think I highlighted more things during this section than any other one, mostly just quotes that struck a chord with me. Like Else’s innocent “I can’t see…where are the stars?” (pg. 188) when they are in they underground bunker at Woomera. Or BD saying that he felt as though he had known Else for a ‘lifetime.” (pg. 198) Then Else rocking it with “Stop treating me like a child. Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.” (pg. 223) But BD’s murder of the old man on page 212-213 REALLY made me mad!!! Wouldn’t you have wanted to know HOW such a rickety old man survived??? Maybe there were other survivors, right? Then, he lies to Else and says it was ‘;just an evol.’ Why lie? Mostly, though, I feel as though this section was like a transition phase between the mission there and the mission back. I also get sooooo irked that these damn ‘geeks’ lived underground for so long they REALLY had no friggin clue there was still imminent danger RIGHT OUTSIDE!!! HOW would you forget that??? Like seriously!! And, I am right there with Randy Where the HELL did the damn airplane come from??? At first, I thought maybe it was Sister Mary’s copter, but no, it was definitely just some random, mysterious plane. WTF???? Maybe we’ll learn more in the last chunk. (HOPEFULLY, I should say!!!)
#7. There are a bunch of questions I want answered. Where DID that plane come from? How DOES Sister Mary know where so much fuel is? Is Australia on a rebound? WILL the nuns repopulate? IS the evol threat diminishing? WHAT can BD do to redeem himself? WHERE was Crystal Brook? What IS going on with Else and the evols? Can she communicate BACK to them? What is left of Sydney? Where is Soo-Yong? WHY don’t BD and Else feel bad for destroying EVERY SINGLE TOWN they stop at? And so on and so forth for like a jillion other questions. I hope for at least SOME things to get answered. I’ve always been SUPER inquisitive (like Else he-he) , so I don’t expect ALL my questions to get answered, but I hope enough of them are answered to sate me. We shall see!!!
#8. End game…well…I’m gonna guess that they make it to Sydney, and that at least one of or duo ends up dead. Other than that, I have NO IDEA!!! And even those two little speculations could be totally wrong. I felt like we got some foreshadowing earlier on, but now the action is too fast paced for foreshadowing. Oh, and maybe Else is going to be crowned Zombie Princess! ;-)
And, so, those are my answers...now, on to responding to you guys' answers...
Ok ladies and gentlemen,It's obvious that I am the one who can't judge a book to the group's standards.
Since this is the last reading lot only one thing is left to decide for me if it is a one star or a two star.
I've said it before, if bad dog sleeps with Else after all the scrap he has said about not doing so, it's a one star.
Here is why:
The characters are without moral standards, the are cardboard thin, and hollow. The main character is sexiest, check the whole book is one man's twisted fantasy.
The incest and brutal rape followed by non-zombies early teenage boys eating the victim alive while the other boys masturbated as the watched is vile, disturbing and inexcusable.
The plot races about at breakneck speeds and is often confusing and poorly written.
There are more plot holes and logic flaws in this story than I've seen in all of the 156 books that I've read so far this year.
I not only dislike the characters, i am repulsed by them. If I cannot get behind a character to cheer them on or in someway connect to them, the book fails.
The dialogue and interaction between the characters is weak, and immature often ending in petty bickering and ego stroking of the main character. Too often there is an excess of vulgarity, which serves to diminish the interactions and cheapens what little intellectual stimulation the plot holds.
There is no growth (personal or moral) with the characters.
Too many of the plots mini-crisis scenes are only partially completed. Like the author just gave up and moved on.
I do not recommend this book to anyone, especially young adults, individuals with a sensitivity to violence and rape/incest.
Randy wrote: "Was Crystal Brook the town where BD killed the old man? ..."No, that was Wirrabara, as far as I can tell...
Tammy K. wrote: "This website is all about finding and sharing good reads aka books.
A book of the month is about breaking down a book, sharing thoughts, insights, expectations, disappointments, and so on about that book ..."
While I TOTALLY agree, I just don't think this book is fit to be 'under the microscope.' Some books just can't be deconstructed all that well, and as I said before, your point about not looking too closely for fear of seeing something you may not wanna see is dead on here!
Tammy K. wrote: "If these characters are an example of Australians, than I say "let them all die off!'' ..."
I sure hope you just mean in the context of the story! Wow! A bit harsh, I must say...but I can completely understand your frustration with this book...
Tammy K. wrote: "Donna is not pregnant page 219, but has big dreams of creating a brand new master race...."
And ICK!!! Isn't Donna creepy? EVERY SINGLE TIME I hear the word 'eugenics,' all I can think of is Hitler. Donna's master race is gonna be one hell of an experiment...
Tammy K. wrote: "I've never done hallucinatory drugs, but this story is kinda like the way I envision the "trips" to be....."
DON'T EVER DO HALLUCINOGENICS...NOT FUN!!!! (Yes, I had my wild days as a youngster ;-) )
Netanella wrote: "My head is spinning like Linda Blair's, I'm having such a hard time keeping up...." Be careful! LOL...Blair broke her back from being jerked around so hard! We don't want you to lose your head! ;-)
Netanella wrote: "And the "spaghetti" part of the Western was due to the Italian film crew, not the "on top of ol' smokey, all covered with cheese" that my brother misinformed me in his usual cheeky demeanor. ..."
Yes, lol...NOT the "on top of ole smokey" spaghetti! LOL...Quentin Tarantino is always pointing out spaghetti westerns as one of his main influences. That's how we got 'Kill Bill,' which, in my estimation, was an AWESOME movie!!!
Tammy K. wrote: "By the time the hunger kicks in..."
Tee-hee...this ISN'T funny, my dear! But it reminds me of zombies' hunger lol. Take care of yourself!!!
Okay, a few last things...I, too, want DESPERATELY see what happens with the evols. I also have hope now that Netanella has rated the book 4 1/2 stars. You're giving me hope! Thank you!!!
I guess we shall see what happens in the next 2 days, right? I'm excited! What about you guys???
HAPPY READING, ALL!!!
Teresa wrote: "Randy wrote: "Was Crystal Brook the town where BD killed the old man? ..."No, that was Wirrabara, as far as I can tell...
Tammy K. wrote: "...Tammy K. wrote: "If these characters are an example of Australians, than I say "let them all die off!'' ..."
I sure hope you just mean in the context of the story! Wow! A bit harsh, I must say...but I can completely understand your frustration with this book...
Yes, I said, "If these characters are an example of Australians... "
It's in context
I think I'll drop out here and Mark it as a could not finish at 84%.I've got two read for reviews waiting, and a ton of crochet projects for the bazaar and Christmas presents.
Life is too short to spend it doing something that you don't enjoy, especially when you can simplify close the book and post your reviews.
Last comment to Paul, I read word for word this story. I did not skim it, I invested my time and honest opinion of it. Take my comments/thoughts however it best serves you.
I am only one reader and you can see in this BOTM that I do not look for the same thing as other readers. That is why every genre has sub-genres and nitches inside those sub-genres. Not every book will work in the broader audience.
My thoughts on this book do not reflect my thoughts on you as an individual. I wish you success in your work within the intended audience.
I highly recommend that you properly tag this work with graphics violence, rape and incestuous undertones (Lizzy And her brother, Lizzy watching her parents have sex) so that only the appropriate readers select this book. Had I know that this story contained them, I would not have read it. One something has been read, it cannot be unread.
I will take the day before writing my reviews. But as I've said before I do not believe in writing fluff reviews. Other readers/purchaser deserve to know about the graphic nature of this book, and I'll be including a couple lines about it so that they are not caught off guard like I was.
Again, I do not think my views are anything special, but maybe they can offer some insight into what could be done in your next book to reach a wider audience?
Respectfully,
Tammy K.
Teresa wrote: "But BD’s murder of the old man on page 212-213 REALLY made me mad!!! Wouldn’t you have wanted to know HOW such a rickety old man survived??? Maybe there were other survivors, right? Then, he lies to Else and says it was ‘;just an evol.’ Why lie? Mostly, though, I feel as though this section was like a transition phase between the mission there and the mission back.I agree here completely - this part of the book totally shocked me and left me with a bad taste in my mouth, another one of those "where the h.. did that come from?" feeling. The whole piece felt inserted into the story, and I'm not sure if it was added to illustrate the moral degenerate nature of BD, or just another piece of gratuitous violence thrown in. Either way, it seemed to detract more than add to the story.
Tammy K. wrote: "Life is too short to spend it doing something that you don't enjoy, especially when you can simplify close the book and post your reviews."
Well said, Tammy! A honest review is a true opinion, and we all value each other's. I rated this book highly because I really enjoyed it, and my tastes are different from Tammy's. I have no problem with gratuitous violence, and in fact expect it in most horror fiction. I also have no issues with the sexual escapades of BD in this book - it goes to illustrate his low moral character in many aspects, and perhaps serves as a foil against the nuns' earlier religious rigor. Tammy's views are as legitimate as any reader's, and just as valid.
BTW, has anyone seen the anime movie "Akira"? The ending sequence with Adam the Alpha strongly reminded me of the ending of that movie.
I agree about the book as a whole, Netanella. I JUST finished it, and I was VERY happy with the last section! Now, I'm chomping at the bit for the sequel! I, too, enjoy gratuitous violence...well, that's not exactly what you said, but I AM a bit twisted. I really find that this book seems more Bizarro than any other genre. I think sometimes we forget that 'zombie books' is NOT a genre. A zombie can show up in a romance, horror, drama, whatever. But I, myself, am placing this book squarely on my Bizarro shelf, which, truth be told, is NOT for everyone. It isn't for very many at all, in fact, and that's kinda the point of it. Its almost an 'anti-literature' type genre-gross outs as much as possible, gratuitous sex, violence, and whatnot, all while being nearly incomprehensible with all the out of this world story elements. I wonder if that was the author's aim...PAUL: where are ya, buddy? Now that I'm done shredding the 3rd section of your book :-(, I've finished up and am happy as a clam with the result. IS that what you were going for? The Bizarro genre? Just curious...and now, I'm SUPER-DUPER curious as to when the sequel will be out, or at least what the title is so that I can be on the lookout for it...
I, too, have given the book 4 stars, but, am leaning more towards 4 1/4 stars (trump THAT fraction, Netanella!), mostly because of some plot holes and poor editing. Other than that, I was WELL PLEASED with the ending!!! I got to see my anti-hero redeem himself! YAY!!! Without giving too much away, I will say I made some pretty good guesses as to what was gonna happen...now I'm gonna give myself a pat on the back and dive headfirst into 'Kraken' AND 'The Golem and the Jinni' for another group (Leave it to me to attempt to read two massively long books at the same damn time!)
HAPPY READING, ALL! Can't wait to discuss on the 14th!!!
Although it's not uncommon for me, I am seriously wondering if I'm in the right group.I could not have disliked this story more. Rape? Incest? Gore for the sake of Gore? Zero morals?
Ok to each their own.
Your opinions on the book is valid. If you're comfortable giving it five stars than so be it.
Tammy, I think you need to take this with a grain of salt (maybe the whole damn salt shaker), but I very rarely look for morals when reading zombie horror. The way I see it, is that morals go out the window after an apocalyptic event. The 'nice' people usually die first. Its a dog eat dog world now, so I can only imagine what a NEE would bring. Look back through my comments and click on the book I added 'Savage Girls and Wild Boys.' Its a non-fiction book about feral children. Most of what you seem to be offended by is the Lizzy scene. But I assure you, when children are 'feral,' their behavior is VERY immoral and COMPLETELY abnormal. Like the little girl from California that was zipped into a sleeping bag every nite and tied to a toilet all day. She had indentations from the toilet seat imprinted and scarred onto her thighs, and she masturbated CONSTANTLY because that's all she knew to do for 'pleasure' while zipped in her sleeping bag. She hadn't the ability to speak English, and while she was 16 years old when found, she was roughly the size of a 10 year old because of such stressful and disturbing situations. And the two girls that were abandoned by their parents, just to be taken in by a pack of wolves (seriously!). Those sisters WOULD NOT stand on two feet, because all they knew was four footed running like the wolves. They had to eat raw meat; regular food was NOT regular food to them. So I actually think Paul did a good job showing how depraved children can become without mores, rules, and parental guidance. It was a heart-wrenching book, let me tell ya :'( Anyhow, I urge you to finish the book, at least. Yes, life IS too short to take part in activities that you don't enjoy. BUT, you've came sooooo far!!! Only 16% left...I think your opinions may change, but that is your choice.
One last thing...what is your favorite 'Zombie' book? Or a couple of your favorite books in general? Maybe that would give me some insight into what you are looking for in the BOTM. You obviously don't have to answer, but I'm just super curious what 'does it' for you...
THANKS!!!
Oh, and don't feel alienated just because Netanella and myself liked the book...Randy and Liz have yet to speak their verdicts on the book, so who knows? Maybe both of them will HATE it and Netanella and I will be in the minority. Maybe we should have 'Tammy's Pick' as one of the reads for November so we can better understand what you look for in a book. That IS what a book group is for, after all...getting to know each other, sharing opinions, etc. I know you didn't really care for Zombies, Inc or this one, so I'm just curious what you DO like. And who cares if you didn't like it? That IS your right, you know? Like you said, your opinion is just as important as anyone else's and just as relevant, even if it is a negative review. Don't bash yourself because you didn't like it; I think if we found a book we all loved, something weird would be going on! LOL ;-)
Teresa,If you have a moment look over my profile. Read it all the way through.
You'll learn more from it than you will by me listing a couple of books.
Then if you're still curious compare our bookshelves.
Thank you, my dear! I will do so when I get home...I am getting a late night rush of customers...thanks again... :-)
I generally do not leave my profile open for all eyes. I opened it up to offer you the insight. I will limit who can view it tomorrow evening. Tammy
Okay...will be sure to check it out no later than tomorrow afternoon (yeah...working again tonite AND tomorrow, AND the day after, so I'm gonna be damn near nocturnal by Tuesday! These 12 hour shifts are tough, especially working 4 in a row...but, such is life when we are down a team member...)
Don't look, Teresa. It'll burn your eyes out.Run away! Run away!
Mod
I'm sad to see you bow out of this one - perhaps you'd like to stick around, even if you're DNF? I'm not done yet, but I'm getting there.
I doubt I'll rate as high as Netanella. I have a high gore tolerance, but a lower (gratuitous) sex tolerance. More than that, though, as of this point, I don't feel like I'm getting the book that was sort of promised in the beginning. It was fast paced, amusing and had a few very compelling scenes - the initial interview with the Zombie Mafia, the ride across the river, the very first encounter with Else... I feel like a lot of that was abandoned - almost like someone was saying, that it's an outline of a book, rather than a book...
I require a great deal of logic in a book. If you can make me believe that it makes SENSE for a character to do xyz, I'll keep reading. If the rape/incest/sex has a PURPOSE in the story, I'll keep reading.
Mod
OK, I really thought this was a cop-out. I mean, this is the semi-climax of the book - one of the big goals has been realized... and we get a sentence or two, almost as an aside. Oh, hey, she's fixed right up now, even though a few pages ago we were pretty casual about the fact that she was a goner... I was underwhelmed.
I also don't understand how the facility was so quickly overtaken. I mean, yeah, the people underground seemed pretty oblivious - but the military wasn't on the ball enough to prevent a total massacre? Even though they had just fought off a bunch of ferals?
2) BD now has/had another "love interest". Or rather, another sexual relatonship. How does this fit into the rest of the story? Is there significance to the fact that she'll be trying to implement a breeding program?
I almost thought the introduction of some more sex was an attempt to establish a "norm" for relationships in this world - but I didn't really buy it. Particularly because pretty much no time was spent on it. At all. I also thought it was weird that Else FREAKED OUT about Lizzy, but could care less about Donna. Why the inconsistency?
Also. I don't like that she's decided she's going to engineer the new race. And, uh, the nuns are good with that? They go from divine intervention to genetic breeding program without the blink of an eye? Weird.
3) BD makes an offhand comment about having babies with Else. Does he really intend to follow through? Or was this a rather bizarre slip of the tongue?
OK, yeah. I really thought this was an asshole move. And a creepy one, when their relationship is father/daughter. Sorta. But it isn't? I can't really fit it into any particular category, and I'm frustrated by that. I don't need cut and dried categories, but I need a little meat so that I can understand motivation and the context of dialogue.
4) What just happened with the nuns? Is their sudden attitude change consistent with the overall thrust of the book?
This annoyed me. In the last scene with the nuns, first we had uber Christians, who follow the Lord's leading in everything. Then they wanted to keep Else as a novice. Then head nun went all Rambo, and also decided that Else was an abomination. NOW we have mercenary nuns who are "helping themselves", then again they want to keep Else, then they're embarking on a breeding program, then after head nun flies them around for a bit she can't handle Else making a comment about her faith. Wait, what? These are the most unstable nuns I've ever heard of.
5) Did anyone else notice the (presumably) Biblical reference to Else writing "something" on the ground with a stick? (The relevant passage is John 8:1-11. I include this link for ease of reference: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?...) What is the author's intent?
I don't know if this was intentional or not, but it sure seemed like it. Perhaps Paul will come back at some point and shed some light. In the Bible passage, we never learn what Jesus is writing - but it's him doing the writing. I had a thought that this was a small foreshadowing of Else becoming, as several have suggested, the next Zombie Messiah. Or Zombie Princess, hey Teresa? Anyway, I noticed it because I thought there was some attention given to it. But I've been wrong before. Don't tell Randy.
6) Are there certain issues or events that stood out to you in this section? Do they contribute or detract from your enjoyment of the book?
I think I've already mentioned most of the stuff that peeved me off. I'm sort of living in a state of irritation about this section.
Oh, the PLANE! What was up with the plane? ARGH Also, the survivors seemed pretty wildly apathetic. No attempt to regroup, even though they had a thriving and co-operative community only days before.
7) As we head into the final section, what questions do you have that you hope will be answered?
Is this plot ever going to come together? Will BD continue to fail at his job of raising Else? Will the nuns go on a killing spree?
8) What do you expect the end game to be? Go ahead and speculate!
I've got nothing. I'm hoping for something of a happy ending, but I don't know what that would look like. What would make ME happy would be a return to some of the imagery from the beginning of the book.
Randy wrote: "Don't look, Teresa. It'll burn your eyes out.Run away! Run away!"
Bite Me.
Elizabeth wrote: "...If the rape/incest/sex has a PURPOSE in the story, I'll keep reading...."
Can such things have a purpose?
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I have to admit that I am currently in a much better mood now that I am not feeling saddled by this BOTM.
After deciding not to finish this and moving on to the next book on my "to read" list.
I found a great read called Kick by John Monk.
I read it in one sitting & gave it five stars. :)
While its not a zombie read, it is a Supernatural (ghost) thriller.
If you have it on your book shelf make a note yourself that it is what Tammy calls a five star read.
And Yup, there is blood, murder and even a little sex in there but in a reasonable dose which makes sense in the overall storyline.
TAMMY: We are 70% similar!!! LOL ..BUT...we only have 10 books in common...It was the Hunger Game trilogy that gave us such a good match" I LOVED those books, and dystopian lit is one of my favorites genres. I've read a bunch of 'classic' dystopians, if you want any recommendations. You DEFINITELY need to read Animal Farm! ;-)
Nevermind lol...NOT enough sleep...Its Brave New World you oughta read!
Liz and I have the most books in common, but Paul and I rate highest at 87% I guess I'm as sick and twisted as our author! LOL :-P
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I am DONE this book! Hurray! LOL
Well I'm going to re-limit my profile now that you've had a chance to peek.I felt that it was far easier to understand what I look for in a book through my ''about me" section.
I wrote that all out a couple years ago when I decided to start writing reviews so that my "standards" were clearly stated.
Needless to say, not everyone agrees with my criteria and over the years some have objected quite vocally, which is why I keep my profile limited.
As you have seen, I measure a book heavy on character development, character interaction that have realistic and believable elements. No cookie cutter characters for me, thank you.
This story struck out there.
I hate love triangles and other dramatic nonsense like that.
Strike two
Vividly described settings, plots with a clear direction.
Strike three
Solid plot resolutions.
Strike four
Actually I did not finish the book so I can't really say strike four.
But I will not tolerate abuse of children, rape or incest. Those are not elements to be played around with in a light, joking or in this case "shock value" manor.
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Like you Teresa I do enjoy dystopians.
I've read several dozens over the years and am 100% certain I'll read more in years to come.
---
I like to read a fair amount of genres and I try to mix it up to keep from burning myself out.
I've got so many books on my ereaders that I simply do not have the time to add them all to Goodreads shelves.
I was hoping that Amazon would connect with Goodreads when they bought them out, and that they'd make it available to add my purchased titles to goodreads without all the work of doing it manually.
Meh.
They did not so I'll have to slowly update my shelves as I read the titles or if I somehow manage to find the time.
Wishing you a good day
Tammy
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"
I assume that you mean in the context of storytelling? Absolutely. Whether it's past or present, abuse of some sort is often the catalyst for change, whether it's within a character, the overall plotline or the cultural setting for the book.
Do I approve of sexual violence or incest, or think that they serve some sort of purpose in society? Absolutely not.
That being said, I think some authors are absolutely hamfisted in the way they handle telling this kind of story. Or waaaaaay over the top. A book I read recently had numerous references to child sexual abuse, to the point where I actually just skimmed to the end, and I won't be reading anything by that author again. It had a "purpose" - to show how evil the bad guy was - but he failed miserably. That's my line.
Elizabeth wrote: "Tammy K. wrote: "Can such things have a purpose?"
I assume that you mean in the context of storytelling? Absolutely. Whether it's past or present, abuse of some sort is often the catalyst for c..."
Well stated.
Of course, we are speaking in context of fictional work.
After posting my thoughts here in this thread earlier today, I set about doing the dishes and getting ready for company tomorrow AM.
I recalled what I wrote and realized that at some point today I should get back on here and clarify my statements.
Your reply pretty much nailed my thoughts.
There are times when it is appropriate to bring up sensitive topics, in order to bring light to the injustice of them.
However, to add them into a storyline to in anyway glorify them or to use them for tantalizing/horrifying purposes, I find to be objectionable.
Tammy K. wrote: "Can [rape/incest/sex/child abuse] have a purpose [in a story]?"Absolutely. You think those things WON'T happen often in a post-apocalyptic world?
I recently had an author ask me:
"I saw a post about book pet peeves and you mentioned you strongly dislike zombie stories that use women as sex slaves.
From a readers perspective, may I ask why? Is it too over done? Were the books told from a male perspective?"
My response:
"It's the dwelling on the activity that bothers me, the graphical description.
Just like when a zombie takes down a human, I don't need a graphical description of the zombie eating each organ of the body, reading about it plucking out the eyes, etc."
In this book, the sex scenes regarding Lizzy were just awkward, and a bit too graphical for my tastes. And the whole North Stirling boys scene just came out of nowhere. Again, awkward. And left a bad taste. But unrealistic? Maybe not.
Other than displaying BD's moral code and stretching credulity, the scenes with Donna didn't bother me much.
But, for me, I think the awkwardness of many of those scenes is enhanced by the pace of the book. It's like an outline where only the extreme points are mentioned.
Elizabeth wrote: "That being said, I think some authors are absolutely hamfisted in the way they handle telling this kind of story. Or waaaaaay over the top. A book I read recently had numerous references to child sexual abuse, to the point where I actually just skimmed to the end, and I won't be reading anything by that author again."I used to love John Norman's Gor series, currently at about 32 books. One of the aspects of the stories was the keeping of female sex slaves (and women finding out that was their TRUE nature, and loving it).
Early on, it was a minor aspect. Around the 6th or 7th book, almost entire chapters were spent on sex scenes. I finally gave up on the series at about the 12th or 13th book because I found myself skimming more of the books than reading them -- skipping over the sex scenes to get to the next action scene.
I later heard that he had a female editor/publisher reeling him in early on in the series. Once that "censor" was gone, he went overboard with what must be his own sexual fantasies.
And those are BIG books with small type. But, unfortunately, about 50-70% of them should be edited out. At least for my tastes. *sigh*
I must be wrong though. He has enough of an audience to get up to 32 books. Hmmm.
Randy wrote: "Tammy K. wrote: "Can [rape/incest/sex/child abuse] have a purpose [in a story]?"Absolutely. You think those things WON'T happen often in a post-apocalyptic world?
I recently had an author ask me..."
I agree with all of your points in this comment.
The context of the events, the hyper-focus of the "vile nature" that is in this particular story was the breaking point.
There is evil in the world that we live in today. In the event of an Apocalypse there will be evil just the same.
Look for Bad, you are going to find it.
Look for Good, you are going to find it.
Dwell on the bad/evil, you're going to place it high in your thoughts/heart.
Dwell on the good/compassion, you're going to place it high in your thoughts/heart.
I am not saying that apocalypse, or zombie or even horror stories "must" have a "good" side/element to them.
Not all stories are happy ones. Sometimes our hero's die. Sometimes the villains win.
But for me (personally) to enjoy a story, it needs to have a balance. Otherwise I might as well be watching CNN and other hyper-panicked media.
I actually prefer my hero's flawed but growing.
Rather than go on about this further, I will drop it and hope that after knowing me for a couple years now, you (Randy) understand which books I am going to enjoy and why.
Tammy K. wrote: "...after knowing me for a couple years now, you (Randy) understand which books I am going to enjoy and why."You're still an enigma Tammy. I just know we rarely match on ratings. And often go completely opposite on them. :)
But I can rarely fault your reasons for not liking something. I just enjoy those stories in spite of the flaws.
The one thing I will not forgive is poor writing, riddled with typos and grammatical errors. I want a professional writer to be able to write well, especially with a book that should be proofread and edited numerous times.
Tammy K. wrote: "I actually prefer my hero's flawed but growing."
It's what I loved about Jango. From the start, it appeared BD would be a lesser version of Jango, but might grow into it. And then it went in the opposite direction...quickly. *sigh*
Randy wrote: "Elizabeth wrote: "That being said, I think some authors are absolutely hamfisted in the way they handle telling this kind of story. Or waaaaaay over the top. A book I read recently had numerous ref..."I read a fair amount of LGBT literature. I belong to more then one LGBT literature group here on goodreads. I used to belong to almost every one of them as I felt that I should support my community.
However after spending time in some of the groups, I realized that some of my fellow LGBT members/literature readers are way out there in their ... taste.
When I began to encounter some, hmm ... Ok, let me try this another way.
I have dropped out of a fair amount of LGBT groups here on goodreads.
Just because some thing is popular does not make it the right option for everyone.
Randy wrote: "Tammy K. wrote: "...after knowing me for a couple years now, you (Randy) understand which books I am going to enjoy and why."You're still an enigma Tammy. I just know we rarely match on ratings. ..."
Well, dang. I thought you were doing a great job with your recommendations this past 6 months or so.
I had to smile when you brought up the typos/grammar and such again. :-) You're such a stickler!
Since, for the most part, I enjoy indie authors & I am horrible at grammar, it has to be particularly poor for me to note it in my reviews.
(FYI the book that I just reviewed this afternoon, Infected by James A Potter, will drive you mad with typos but you should read it though it was a good read. We have to lower our standards for Indies and by "we" I mean "you").
I love Jango too. Actually, I am rather found of Cedric too. I no longer can consider myself impartial to his work. I am a fan and it shows.
I think Theresa made a comment about liking the way the Australian town Woomera sounded. Interestingly, one of the free reads from Amazon that either Randy or Sara shared recently is "The Lost Journal of Private Kenji Yoshida", still free on Amazon. Military action-themed, with a stint in the Middle East and then off to Woomera.
Netanella wrote: "I think Theresa made a comment about liking the way the Australian town Woomera sounded. Interestingly, one of the free reads from Amazon that either Randy or Sara shared recently is "The Lost Jou..."Ive been reading that series, slowly but surely.
I have read the first one and that one you have there which is 1.5 and the other 1/2 of that one (book 1.7).
I own book three but not book 2 or 4 yet.
I do not like reading a series out of order so I am stuck until I get book two.
It is a good story though.
I agree with you on that - I like to read series in order, even if they are billed as being able to read as a stand alone. Since this one is a halvsie, it didn't bother me so much, however, that I hadn't read Book 1. Having said that, I don't know I could read 2 before 1. Weirdness abounds within me as well.
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Or are some of you not done?
I'm not quite done, but no need to wait for me...
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I'm done. And very disappointed.
Tammy K. wrote: "I do not recommend this book to anyone, especially young adults, individuals with a sensitivity to violence and rape/incest. "I wouldn't recommend it to young adults, or individuals with a sensitivity to sexual assault either Tammy.
Being a survivor myself - the scene with the feral kids makes my skin crawl. Why did I write it? Because I was writing a horror story. The idea of children, abandoned and growing up in a terrible and savage world meant that I had to go into territory that disturbed me too.
You aren't meant to enjoy that scene. Anyone who does, is probably in need of professional help.
Quick response to some of the general feedback:
The editing isn't good. Fortunately the 2nd edition has a professional edit (Permuted Press release it this month).
My prediction for the ending? Tammy (if she does finish it) will shit bricks and throw her Kindle at the nearest wall before deleting this and vowing never to read anything I write ever again.
This is pulp-zombie horror people. It is meant to be fast, furious and constant. There isn't a lot of room for long passages of meaningful dialogue. It's blood, gore and crazy action scenes.
I think of them as less "plot holes" than plot dimples. There are some questions that remain unanswered, because, frankly, sometimes shit happens. It happens for no reason, and it happens at the worst possible times.
It's OK not to like it. I read a lot of books I don't like, or I like some aspects and detest others. No one is going to freak out if you give it an honest review. Especially not me.
I'm looking forward to being a reader and joining in the discussions of other books in the monthly reading cycle.
Tammy K. wrote: "I think I'll drop out here and Mark it as a could not finish at 84%.I've got two read for reviews waiting, and a ton of crochet projects for the bazaar and Christmas presents.
Life is too short to..."
No worries at all Tammy. Tagging the book is a good idea. I'll look into that.
Honest reviews are always appreciated. It's certainly not a book for everyone.
Teresa wrote: "PAUL: where are ya, buddy? Now that I'm done shredding the 3rd section of your book :-(, I've finished up and am happy as a clam with the result. IS that what you were going for? The Bizarro genre? Just curious...and now, I'm SUPER-DUPER curious as to when the sequel will be out, or at least what the title is so that I can be on the lookout for it... ..."I wasn't aiming for Bizzaro. When I think of Bizarro I think of things like "Ass Goblins of Auschwitz" and stuff that is just off the wall crazy.
TANKBREAD II: IMMORTAL is scheduled for publication in "2014" through Permuted Press.
It picks up about a year later and I think it's pretty damn good. We meet old friends and new enemies. It's also wall-to-wall action.
There are no sex scenes - but it does have a trigger warning for rape.
You did see that Bad Dog was horrified by what the feral kids did right? He wasn't aroused, enthused or otherwise approving of their behaviour? He actively stepped in and stopped them attacking Lizzy.He isn't perfect, but he is old enough to retain some shred of humanity.
