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Tankbread
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October Group Read #1: Tankbread
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Jim
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Sep 28, 2013 04:32PM
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I'll be here!!! :)Not sure how I will feel about this one, its not one I'd choose on my own based on the synopsis but I want to do a group read and I think it'll be fun!
Elizabeth,I would like to know the reading assignment break down as soon as reasonably possible.
I plan on avoiding the thread until the end of each reading period, so I do not end up with spoilers.
I never know if I will be reading all of the assignment in one day or if I will need to break it up.
Thank you
Tammy
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Who else is participating, ladies and gents? Come one, come all!
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By October 4 : Chapters 1-12
By October 8 : Chapters 13-22
By October 11: Chapters 23-34
By October 14: Chapters 35-44
Hope this works for everyone! This has been on my to-read for quite a while, so I'm looking forward to actually getting to it. Glad to have some motivation to queue it up.
I'm in!!! Thanks for the assignment, Elizabeth!!! :)
Elizabeth wrote: "Look at all the exclamation points! That's a guarantee of a good time!!!"It sure is! Count me in!!! I like to use lots of exclamation points, as well...I like them SO much, I even have one tattooed behind my ear! As you will see, I also like to write in all caps A LOT!!! LOL...anyway, my book arrived in the post today, so I'm looking forward to starting it tomorrow (or maybe later on if I can't sleep!). Thanks for the breakdown of chapters. A 'schedule' always helps me keep on track!
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I'm 2 chapters in so far, and I, personally LOVE it so far. But my sense of humor is a bit...well...a bit 'off,' maybe? All I know is that after LITERALLY one page, I thought 'Uh-oh! This one's gonna offend the living be-jeezus out of some readers!' Its reminding me a lot of the bizarro titles I read. I don't think it's for everyone, but I know it IS for me!!! Happy reading, everyone!!!
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Has anyone caught the protagonist's name? I'm getting a little peeve-y that it hasn't been mentioned yet, though there have been a few opportunities. Maybe I'm missing something obvious.
I read in one review that the author chose not to name the Main Character. On page 10 the zombie who hires him calls him "Bad Dog". As for the clone she is called Else (Page 75 chapter Seven)
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Gore for shock value alone does little to impress me.
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I sort of hate it when they don't name the main character. I'm willing to overlook it, as long as it doesn't become some sort of "thing".
I'm not bothered by the gore. I don't think there's much, and it serves a purpose, instead of being gratuitous.
Elizabeth wrote: "Oh, holy cow - maybe I read further than I thought, because I've read the part where the young lady is named. Well, that's a good sign.I sort of hate it when they don't name the main character. ..."
I too am not a fan of not naming the characters but for the sake of this discussion, I'm going to refer to the main character as "Bad Dog" . :-)
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Super excited for the discussion tomorrow! I'm ready to get down & dirty with this book!!! ;-)
Hi all, thanks for taking the time to read Tankbread.You may also like to know that a revised edition is being published this month (October) by Permuted Press. It has a new edit (fixed some grammar and typos) the story is the same though.
The sequel is coming out in 2014, also through Permuted Press.
I'll be happy to answer any questions once you have read it - and honest reviews are fine (some people love it, some people aren't so keen).
Well, I must say that I like the plot and the non-stop excitement so far. I think 'Bad Dog' should be re-named 'Badass' though! LOL...I love it that he kicks ass and takes names, no matter where he is or who he's around (even nuns! What the fu...dge? ;-) ). He's obviously been through the worst of it all, the nittiest of the nittie and the grittiest of the gritty. I agree with Elizabeth, in that I do not think the gore and violence is gratuitous. It serves a purpose, that purpose being that NO ONE is safe any longer in this twisted version of Australia. 'Bad Dog' might be hardened and tough, but he is still human enough to feel a pang of sadness upon first discovering what Tankbread REALLY is. I like that about him. Despite his 'lone wolf' type approach to post-zompocalypse life, he still has enough compassion left to help others (usually only when it serves himself) but he is being completely selfless when it comes to Else. At one point, he even says he hopes to live out his days fishing on a deserted island somewhere. He's OBVIOUSLY a peaceful man, at heart, but he has adapted well to his circumstances. I DO wish that we got a little more background story on him. I don't think we were ever told what his occupation was before all the 'shit went down.' If so, please, someone remind me. I am looking forward to seeing the duo make it to Woomera, although I am SURE there will be some surprises once they finally get there. One thing that is kinda throwing me off is the fact that I'm not familiar AT ALL with Australia. I totally forgot to print a map of Australia off while I was at the library today too :-\ Also, I love it that the premise that the Zombies were let loose upon humankind BECAUSE of a science mistake. That's probably my favorite zombie setup. I DON'T quite understand how a genetic mutation would affect the already dearie but perhaps we'll find out later. Either way, these zombies are like none I've seen before. Its refreshing. And I loved it that the nuns believe its the rapture that has caused the dead to walk again. That is another story element that I've never seen before. What do y'all think? What's your favorite zombie turning scenario? Science experiment gone bad? Unknown causes? I guess I'm just not used to the previous dead rising up again, and instead just seeing the zoms created by bite and infect, bite and infect, and so on (Even though the all time classical Night Of the Living Dead followed the storyline of the dead rising). Anyways, my thoughts are kinda all over the place cause we've got my boyfriend's and she's tugging on my arm as I'm trying to write this lol. I guess what I'm getting at is that I am really enjoying the book so far. I love how real 'Bad Dog' is; I'd be swearing like a sailor and killing zoms left and right, too. But I'd also be trying my hardest to stay away from trouble to begin with, which seems to be 'Bad Dogs' highest priority. He can kill zoms without batting an eye, but he also still has enough heart to help those he can. He's not a blubbering idiot when it comes to jumping into the fray (like Dr. Haumann), and he is also not a complete savage like the A-holes that captured the nuns at Mildura. He's an 'everyman' put into extraordinary circumstances and does the best he can, which is pretty damn good, AND he manages to keep some morals. He obviously wants some *ahem* 'female companionship
but yet he would rather do some 'sheep shagging' than rape a woman or just take what he wants, even though that's what everyone else seems to be doing. Anyway, I love the compassion he shows for Else, and even the nuns. He's a good guy, and he's 'raising' quite the young lady out of Else. I can't WAIT to see what happens in the second part! Looking forward to bouncing some ideas off each other tomorrow or as soon as someone else responds. Happy reading, all!!! (and sorry for the 'split post.' As I mentioned, I have a little girl hanging off my arm...but at least I didn't just lose the whole post like I did last time! :-P )
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1) Early on in the book, the author compares Tankbread to Soylent Green. Do you agree or disagree that they're comparable?
2) What did you think of the Tankbread program initially? How did your opinion change, if at all, once you read further about the details of the program?
3) Which parts of the book really stand out to you so far? Is there anything in the plot, characterization, tone, etc that you feel strongly about one way or the other? Any particular scenes that made an impression?
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Teresa wrote: "Well, I must say that I like the plot and the non-stop excitement so far. I think 'Bad Dog' should be re-named 'Badass' though! LOL...I love it that he kicks ass and takes names, no matter where he..."
I'm really quite enjoying this so far too. I wasn't sure what to expect, but I'm happy to have gotten a fairly savvy street smart young man - and occasionally talking zombies. I'm a little disappointed that we only got a taste of that Godfather-like zombie in that first chapter. I hope there will be more later on, or maybe in the next book.
"He's OBVIOUSLY a peaceful man, at heart, but he has adapted well to his circumstances. I DO wish that we got a little more background story on him. I don't think we were ever told what his occupation was before all the 'shit went down.' If so, please, someone remind me."
Interesting! I don't think I got the sense that he's a peaceful man, but I sort of get what you mean. I would imagine it would take a certain kind of personality and reputation to be allowed admittance to several different safe areas. Unless that was the norm, in which case it would probably still require a certain reputation to be re-admitted.
Wasn't he youngish when all of this happened? My Kobo isn't handy, so I can't check. Rats.
"Its refreshing. And I loved it that the nuns believe its the rapture that has caused the dead to walk again. That is another story element that I've never seen before."
I LOVE the nuns. They're quite awesome. I like that they have conviction without having the crazy that's so standard in a lot of post-apoc books. It's always a crazy religious fanatic, where in contrast, these ladies seem determined to do good according to their faith, and to die by it if neccessary. It was a great change.
"What do y'all think? What's your favorite zombie turning scenario? Science experiment gone bad? Unknown causes? "
You know, honestly, I don't have a favourite scenario. I'll take any of them as long as they're interesting, and the author and/or characters aren't long-winded about it. I hate, hate, HATE it when a character rambles on and on and on and on for pages and pages and pages about the "scientific reasons" that the dead rise or they're filled with rage or whatever the deal is. They're so pleased with themselves for coming up with what they see as a viable scenario that they can't help but waffle on about it. It completely detracts from anything resembling a good story to me. I walked away from a book recently because they would NOT shut up about it.
"He's a good guy, and he's 'raising' quite the young lady out of Else."
I appreciate that he IS raising a nice young lady. He's taken on this job, and he's going to do it properly. It wasn't jarring, but I DID find it a bit strange that his indepenence is pushed in the first part of the book, but then he takes on a "baby" without much thought. Maybe that just speaks to his badass good-guy-ness.
This isn't a complaint, but I almost felt like we moved from one book to another. In the first "book", we had a mouthy, independent, neutral courier operating in some sort of Asian/Italian zombie gang movie with a lot of dark overtones. Then we hit the next "book", Else appears, and we're on a hero quest because our neutral courier is now a man on a mission of mercy.
Okay, here's SOME answers ;-) #1. I'm gonna watch Soylent Green and get back to you on that. I will say, on page 59, I totally highlighted that reference to remind myself to watch it.
#2. I initially thought the Tankbread program was AWESOME! Kinda like TruBlood in the Sookie Stackhouse books to keep vamps from draining people. I'm trying to think if I've ever read another book that has 'substitute brains,' except for the White Trash Zombie series. But their's isn't perfected yet, and, well, Tankbread ISN'T engineered brains. I mean, in a way, they are, but you know what I mean...they are REAL, SENTIENT brains, which is really disturbing. As for how it changes my opinion, I feel like a sucker for ever believing it would be good stuff that came from a humane source, and I think you'd have to be one sick pup to NOT feel like its a bad thing. Unless of course you picked up that it was, if you will, 'too good to be true' from the get-go. But I DO feel as though, given a chance, the guilt these guys feel about being responsible for 'The Panic' would have driven them to somehow kill the zombie mutation and save all of humankind! YAY..but it didn't happen like that at all, did it? I wanna know WHY Charlie unlocked the door!!!!
#3. I have to say that I REALLY want to know more about what this guy did before we meet him. Like you pointed out- the story goes from a very detached character simply trying to avoid becoming zombie food to a seriously invested and deeply developed character. I WILL say that as recent as Moore Park, which is right before his 'real journey' begins, he was willing to leave Else behind. But, yes, Elizabeth, I TOTALLY scratched my head at this super dude lone ranger total badass survivor taking along this 'baby,' essentially. I think this hearkens to his incredible distaste for Tankbread. Which makes me jump the gun on another plot point. It is mentioned that Soo-Yong was a very rapid evol and that he was trying to help the scientists. I REALLY wish we woulda got more time with Dr. Haumann. As I mentioned above, I am really intrigued by this science stuff, and I want to know more about the projects they were working on. Why did Charlie unleash the evols to ruin Tankbread distribution? Doesn't he know that's going to be BIG trouble, for everyone, INCLUDING him?!?! So why? And why doesn't our Bad Dog just so back to Soo and tell him what happened? I think he'd be more scared of that guy than Dr. Haumann, yet he's taking out the doc's direct orders. Yet, when he gets to Moore Park, he actually TRIES to leave without telling Josh ANYTHING that Doc said. I guess I kinda just answered my own question...I guess Sydney did get totally F-ed by CHARLIE!!! God I hate that guy! I have had a highlighter handy (I have a physical edition, and have a nasty habit of writing, highlighting, dog-earing, and margin scrawling...), and I CANNOT set my post-it tags & pen down long AT ALL! I have been highlighting soooo many passages, statements, observations, and key dialogue its not even funny. I am going to try and post some of my favorite passages/quotes/notes tomorrow A.M. The book is so fast paced and action packed, and the chapters so short that its just flying by. I love it, but I do have some unanswered questions. Of course, we're only on the first section, so if I DIDN'T have some unanswered questions, this would be, like, THE crappiest book on the planet! ;-)
Elizabeth wrote: "Man, we need a better quote feature on Goodreads :(Teresa wrote: "Well, I must say that I like the plot and the non-stop excitement so far. I think 'Bad Dog' should be re-named 'Badass' though! L..."
Two points:
YES!!! I really, really, REALLY wanna see more of the Gangster Godfather type zombie, like in a BAD way!!! ;-)
Your point about not really caring how the zombie-apocalypse takes place (as in what caused it) is very well taken. I have read book that either give NO background story about what happened, exactly what it is we're dealing with here, and what qualities the zombies have or don't have. Then I've read books where the author, as you pointed out, feels so 'clever,' i guess, that they use pages and pages of dis-jointed writing to explain it all, or else try and have certain characters explain things to other characters so that 'we the reader' will get it, while they don't seem to realize that by doing so, they have created a heaping pile of crappy dialogue, and a plot hole you could drive a car through (DUH! Survivors of the same apocalypse/NEE KNOW what the hell the main causes are!). So, I will admit that it is hard to find the happy medium in that equation. One book that I read, The Zombie Autopsies: Secret Notebooks from the Apocalypse, was all about the science aspect, and it was pretty cool (what am I saying? It was AWESOME!). I also understand that short stories often leave out more 'in depth' zompocalypse due to space constraints, but a full length book should certainly ride that happy median. So far, this one is. And I'm lovin it! ;-)
****PLEA TO MY FELLOW BOTMers****
I only have this in hard copy. If it is at all possible for you to include page numbers if your e-reader has them would be GREATLY appreciated! Thanks for doing so already, Tammy. I HATE it that I can't give you guys a %, but I'm pretty good at math, so I can give a pretty damn good range, I'm sure. Plus I can also tell you where exactly any direct quotes come from simply from referencing events in the book. Thanks, guys! You're the best....HAPPY READING, all!!!
Such passionate responses! We need to serve our Tankbread with a dipping of awesomesauce. I've held on to this book for a while now waiting to start so I wouldn't get too far ahead of our reading schedule. The book's pacing has got me, and I had to force myself to stop at chapter 13 last night so I wouldn't spoil anything for myself.
Here are my responses so far:
1. Tankbread is PEO-PLE! Hee hee hee! (I love me some Charlton Heston.) The other movie that this book strongly reminded me of from the start was a really old movie, called Body Parts, I think, about a cloning farm out in Wisconsin. I'm sure it's been remade a million times by now.
2. So far this has been the most disturbing part of the book for me - that humans would use other humans as a means to appease the enemy. Grow them in tanks as zombie food, lobotomize them, and serve them up on a platter in the hopes that the zombies stay away and won't also bite the hand that feeds them. So when the facilities at the Sydney Opera House go down, I did have a little bit of a smirk on my face.
3. Stand out parts or people? Well, our man 'Bad Dog', for one. I agree with Elizabeth, that he does seem to experience a personality shift after he arrives in Sydney and meets up with the Tankbread. His 'look out for number one' mentality does shift, but it doesn't do so as quickly as all that. In the beginning, if Else went down to the zombies or under a hail of gunfire, I doubt he would have looked back twice. He doesn't give her a name until someone actually brings it up to him. And it isn't until she starts exhibiting characteristics of real humans - her thirst for knowledge, her inquisitive nature, her emergent personality - I gotta love her nickname for the zombies and any bad guys! - that you get the sense that our guy cares for anything beyond himself.
Else is awesome as a character, so I'm eager and a little bit anxious to learn what the author's intentions are with this slice of Tankbread, particularly given her short shelf-life.
The nuns, I could have done without. I did like the fact our head nun turned into a former helicopter pilot who flew out our guy and Else after the zombies overran the nunnery (I had to use that word!). But her earlier personality of "watch your language," "put your shirt back on," "God will save us," bit, particularly in the midst of a ZA, was a little too much for me. Our head nun seemed out of character here - first she's a grateful rescue victim, then a religious zealot, then a Rambo-esque pilot who doesn't hesitate to lock her fellow nuns in a closed room surrounded by zombies. Then, she's back to compassion again - 'my side is by my sisters,' she says. Yea, the ones you locked up and left? So, I'm kinda glad we ditched those gals in black. They were a tad bit conflicted.
Question 1.... What is Soylent Green? If I had to compare this to something I guess I'd use Mad Max. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0079501
But it's a pale version of it.
Question 2: I can't say I understand the appeal of creating clone food for your enemy. The fact that the clones have a potential of becoming a zombie (enemy) adds to the flaw.
Meh
Question 3: Stereo typical characters. Weak character development. A prime example of a "man's man" character in a "man on a mission" plot. *Male ego/Lobito glorifying .*
Independent women need not apply.
Far more gore than needed.
The plots pace races on from on scene to the next in fast forward. There is a lack of suspense build up. It is just..... We are here, did this, left to go there, to do that....
The mystery elements are dropped in the story rather than built up too. The main character is not figuring it out, nor is the reader...where is the fun in that?
I guess so far I'd say that I am being told a story, rather than "shown" a story.
A couple other things that stand out.... 20 years after the zombie apocalypse and they are all out of canned food?
Must be an island thing.
Also the settings are barely described.
I've never been to Australia. I'm sure many have it on their to do list, but in the meantime a bit more descriptions of life/landscape/wild life in Australia might give the world within the book more vividness, and help the reader to envision scenes.
Water shortages? Is this common in Australia? Am I envisioning a desert? What about this boat ride? Am I envisioning swamps? The Mississippi river? Salt water? Because the book talks about water shortages?
I've got some awesomesauce for ya,Netanella! :-P And I like the different viewpoints on the nuns. I tend to agree with Elizabeth, though. I think its cool that they are actually holding their faith and trying to do god's work til the very end. Very 'Christian,' unlike most christians today...And Tammy, the way I look at it is this: Australia IS essentially an island, albeit a large one. So the very rare canned food DOESN'T surprise me. How long are we supposed to have canned food after a NEE? (NOT being snarky- I'm not even CLOSE to a 'prepper,' so I am curious if there is an algorithm that predicts how long certain supplies will last.) I think that being on an island, and the fact that LOTS of stuff has been pillaged and burned, canned food would be a rare commodity. I also find it odd that they don't eat more sheep and kangaroo. The water thing I look at like this- Australia IS pretty damn arid, so yes, most of it IS desert like conditions. I think that is where the water shortages are coming in to play. Also (and this is kinda a plot hole a mile wide), it IS mentioned that the zoms will just walk under the water's surface without dying. That would keep ME away from water! LOL...but seriously. I think it was mentioned that their fetid stank contaminates the water. But yet when they get into the skirmish at Moore Park, they are COVERED with zombie guts and no one gets turned. Still, I would think there would be more 'water boiling' going on in order to have SOMETHING to drink. And I'm really surprised the nuns don't make fabric from the sheep. That's a BIG TIME untapped resource. Hell, I think I could do that (like seriously...I'm a knitter and spinner)...maybe that'll be my trade come zom-pocalypse time! ;-) I must say, however, I COMPLETELY disagree with you saying there is no room for a woman hero. I don't see this as a man's world. Look at the pregnant girl that took one HELL of a last stand. Also, as you read farther (I can't put this one down!!!), you will see some VERY strong females, even a same sex couple and a female governer. Plus, I think we all know Else is going to turn out to be the REAL hero. Heck, even the nuns are very strong female characters. Hang in there, this next chunk is chock full of strong females ;-)
**** SPEAKING OF READING AHEAD, am I the only one who CANNOT set this book down??? I LOVE it!!!****
Oh and one more thing...its the fast paced, shortchapter set-up that is keeping this book glued to my hand! I think its perfect...after all, things WOULD be happening right after another. So I don't feel as though I'm being 'told' rather than 'shown' a story. Everything is happening so fast, there's hardly any other way the author could slow it down unless he made it an 'after the fact' type journal thing. I guess this just kinda reminds me of real life...busy, busy, busy! On from one thing to the next, with no time in between! It keeps the story moving along a a super fast clip. I think it would be different if it detracted from the story, but I don't feel as though it does. But most of the pleasure of group reads comes from differing opinions, no? Thanks for all the feedback, guys...gives me something to mull over with my morning coffee! ;-)
Teresa wrote: " But most of the pleasure of group reads comes from differing opinions, no? Thanks for all the feedback, guys...gives me something to mull over with my morning coffee! ;-) '..."Yup, different readers see different things.
We are each sharing our honest, individual, reading experience.
It's good that we are open to others experiences.
Anyway, let's see the nun...... Stereotype.... So Not independent, praises the MC....why? Because mother figures praise good boys... Think on back on Joseph Campbell's work in comparative religion in his book titled .Thou Art That: Transforming Religious Metaphor and his other works
She Calls Else a what on page 106 ? Oh yeah, abomination.
How Christan stereotypical!
Let's look at miss independent Else.. Sorry not found in this reading section... But I haven't read past the assignment maybe.....
I do not find "eye candy", "footwear" (sitting at someone's feet like a dog), (speaking of pet dogs) "attack dog behavior" (look at the way cool way that she fights to save his apple. Good girl!)...now what was my point? Something about
While my comments RE: settings > Australia, may or may not be found through a Google check, they were Not found in this reading section.
It is up to the author to provide vivid settings for their readers. They do this by using their words to paint an image in the readers mind.
My point in that comment was that I'm not "seeing" it. I am also Not going to Google check it.
It falls to both the creditability and believability of the story.
If it's in the story please feel free to give me a page reference.
Sorry for all the correction attempts above, my tablet and goodreads are not cooperating.
I guess I did read it different than you, although all your points are VERY valid, and I totally see where you are coming from. I guess I read the 'dog' thing as her still being a little child in mind. Lots of times children will sit at the feet of adults while the 'grown-ups' talk. I think since 'Bad Dog' has no experience with kids, he accidentally found himself patting her head, and he jerked his hand back because it made him feel like a creep. Then, I saw Else's independence when she mastered the bow. She is kick-ass with that thing! So I guess I saw that as a huge step towards her independence. I have a feeling she is going to end up on her own, and show us she CAN take care of herself.
As for the nun calling her an 'abomination,' well, she kinda is. She IS Tankbread after all. But I DON'T understand the sudden shift from when the nuns really wanted to take her in from the mother superior calling her an abomination. I guess I just don't feel as though many Christians would go to their deaths so readily and bravely as the nuns did. Perhaps I should clarify by saying they are WAY more 'Christian' than most of the 'Christians' I know. I think its hard to keep in mind that, while Else is in the body of a full-fledged female, she is still like an 8 year old girl or so. One thing that's kinda bothering me is that her 'shelf life' was supposed to be a month, but it seems longer than that as their journey moves along. I believe Josh mentions that her mental capacities will diminish as she is nearing her end. She still hasn't matured fully, so when is she supposed to start going downhill? Anyway, I LOVE it that you read into it like that. From here on out, I'm going to keep your views in mind whilst reading. Your view most definitely makes perfect sense, even though I didn't get that feel. Maybe because there was too much other stuff going on. Thanks for that...I always enjoy a feminist interpretation. I JUST suggested Margaret Atwood's 'The Handmaid's Tale' in another group of mine, and its an all girl group. I couldn't believe they hadn't read it yet! If you haven't, I'm SURE you'd enjoy it, or ANYTHING Atwood, for that matter! Thanks for your alternative view...keeps me on my toes!!! ;-)
I smiled at this, " I always enjoy a feminist interpretation. "I've never considered myself a feminist, but I've been called far worse ;-)
I'll bend to the concept that others may see my views as a feminist perspective.
But I see myself as a reader who has long since gotten bored with flat characters.
Side note, my children never sat at my feet... I must have done something wrong, because neither of them came out as submissive pets.
I thought they said that the tankbread were allowed to develope their body's and minds.... Which is why they given lobotomies.
Teresa wrote: " As for the nun calling her an 'abomination,' well, she kinda is. She IS Tankbread after all. B .."I guess that depends on your views of what an abomination is.
A year ago I went with my girl friend to meet some of her family in Colorado.
I met her aunt whom for the most part I truly liked. We had long talks in the car drives to see the other family members. Anyway, one day we started talking about children who were artificially conceived. I don't recall how the conversation came up, but it lasted throughout the two hour trip.
Her aunt stated that children who were conceived in any other way but "natural" were "Souls stolen from God."
While it is not what I believe, nor anything I've ever heard of before (Stealing from God), it was her genuine belief.
Since she wasn't my relation, and I did not want to start WW3 with my girl friend at the time, I did not debate the issue.
You are correct that there are more kinds (belief structures) of Christians.
One last request:
Please use spoiler when you are quoting from further than the assigned reading sections. (See the "some HTML is OK'' pop out link above where we typ our comments for directions)
I try real hard to stay in the moment of my reading experience when I answers the BOTM questions, and do not read ahead to keep my answers genuine to my understanding of the book to that point.
Thank you.
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I'm crazy busy this weekend, so I'm just checking in to make sure you're all behaving and keeping up with your reading ;)
Back to work. I'm behind on my reading - it's making me nuts because reading is my sanity break... ARGH. Is it weird that I'm looking forward to Monday?
Mod
I can't use the spoiler thing on my phone because it doesn't have the 'some HTML is okay,' but I'm going to write down some of the codes. I imagine it would come out right in the end either way. But I never mentioned anything that went beyond what we read- promise! ;-) And I didn't quite mean what you're thinking, or maybe I just grew up a lil different. But I remember playing on the floor with my dolls or what have you (usually books, actually!) while my mother & father would talk or watch the news. I can remember tugging at my ma's skirts when I wanted her attention, and I ALWAYS remember her saying to 'Never interrupt adults when they are speaking.' I guess I was on the ground A LOT as a child lol...I remember digging in my 'flowerbed,' hiding in forts, and believe you me- if my mommy and daddy were still up when I was growing tired, I'd roll out my Strawberry Shortcake sleeping bag and curl up at their feet, just to get carried into my room by my dad. Its so interesting to me that because of those childhood experiences, I read that scene COMPLETELY different than you! And I think we ALL know, I'm FAR from submissive! LOL...but I do agree with you on the personal level that Else is NOT an abomination to me, but I can see how she is in the story. The people left in Australia clearly think Tankbread is a bad thing (except for the ones in Sydney). So while I said she was kinda an abomination, I meant in the context of the book, not my own personal opinion. And WOW!!! I can't believe you held your tongue over the whole 'stealing from god' thing when speaking with your friend's aunt over artificial conception. I don't think I would have been able to put a lid on that! But for the sake of keeping the peace, we do lots of things, I suppose. Anyway, I didn't mean to insult you by insinuating you were taking a feminist approach to the book; I just meant that you are putting forth some good thoughts that I hadn't read into the same way you did. And while we ALL hate flat characters, I don't see these characters being too flat. Obviously, they are no Raskolnikov or Humbert Humbert, but I think we will be seeing quite a bit more character development as the story goes on. Its just moving too fast for the author to spend time delving into the inner thoughts of characters when there is so much action going on. Anyway, good bouncing thoughts off ya! Thanks for taking the time to respond :-)
Thank you to you too Teresa for sharing your thoughts /experiences.Pretty much all the HTML codes are the same.
They all start by typing < what you want > and end by typing <
/ what you want >
So bold is this < b > < / b> I put a space between each character so you can see what to type but when you do it, don't use spacing
B= bold < b > < / b>
I = italic < i > < / i>
S = strike through < s > < / s>
Type the word spoiler for spoilers < spoiler> < / spoiler>
To quote type the word blockquote (one word) < blockquote > < / blockquote>
Any ? Feel free to ask
Just getting caught up here...>>> Teresa: What's your favorite zombie turning scenario?
I think mine would be from the movie Return of the Living Dead. Old Tarman in the barrel.
>>> Teresa: But I'd also be trying my hardest to stay away from trouble to begin with, which seems to be 'Bad Dogs' highest priority.
But the evols do seem to be focused on either him or Else. Everywhere they go, a horde rises up. I find it kind of freaky that the evols can have a hive mind. Which is completely different from their normal mode of operation. Is Soo -Yong the one driving all the evols? Or some other source?
>>> Teresa: I love the compassion [Bad Dog] shows for Else, and even the nuns.
As you said, a moral man.
>>> Elizabeth: Early on in the book, the author compares Tankbread to Soylent Green. Do you agree or disagree that they're comparable?
I think Tankbread is far worse. In Soylent Green, (view spoiler). Tankbread are grown into actual human beings and then harvested. Now, if Tankbread had been grown without a brainstem and the ability to operate as actual humans, I might not think it so bad. But, as is, it's like feeding live babies to the evols. Sacrificing your young, so to speak.
>>> Elizabeth: What did you think of the Tankbread program initially? How did your opinion change, if at all, once you read further about the details of the program?
The original program makes sense from one angle -- grow the perfect soldier, quickly and easily. But it has the same immoral results. They would just be fed into the meatgrinder of war.
>>> Elizabeth: Which parts of the book really stand out to you so far?
For me, it's the relationship of Bad Dog and Else, who obviously is very intelligent in order to be picking up things as fast as she is. Probably what they needed for the perfect soldier. Intelligence. Physical control. Ability to be indoctrinated. Blank slates, so to speak.
>>> Elizabeth: Any particular scenes that made an impression?
For me, the opposite -- I kinda got lost in how the Opera House fell. Just overwhelmed?
>>> Elizabeth: I don't think I got the sense that [Bad Dog is] a peaceful man, but I sort of get what you mean.
I mentioned on another thread a recollection I have of some movie with an action hero:
Hero: I hate violence and killing.
Sidekick: But you're so good at it.
>>> Elizabeth: I almost felt like we moved from one book to another.
True. And only a third of the way through the book.
And, in those two quests, the nature of the evols has changed significantly too. In the second quest, we see the hive mind mentality arising.
>>> Tammy: The plots pace races on from on scene to the next in fast forward.
I like that pacing.
>>> Tammy: She Calls Else a what on page 106 ? Oh yeah, abomination. How Christan stereotypical!
Well, Else is certainly special. And wouldn't humans grown in test tubes be an abomination against God?
From what we've seen in her physical and intellectual growth, it could be that these test tube babies could well have become the dominant species on Earth without them having a built-in shelf life.
Compare to Blade Runner, (view spoiler)
>>> Tammy: Independent, fully fleshed out women?
Wait. Wait. You were complaining about a fast pace, and now you want Else to go directly from baby to independent woman in a few chapters? Give her time.
Randy,Great use of the HTML codes dude!
I'm making my calls only from the first reading assignment
I stand by them because they were my impression of the first 12 chapters as I read it
Now that is not to say my end thoughts of the book will be the same as my initial thoughts.
The characters and plot have time to develop as we read on (of course).
I too found the opera house scene confusing.
Which is partly why I made the comments about a rushing of the scenes and a lack of details.
Anyone have a take on Else's comment about having seen Bad Dog in a "dream" where he was talking to "father" (Haumann)?Does that imply they actually are aware before they are "woken up" and lobotomized?
I've been trying to get a bite on that myself.If tankbread are short lived and are development until their brains are matured and this requires a lobotomy before they are sent out as food. It implies that the tankbread are already intelligent.
Not newborn intelligence, newborns can/don't have the abilities to challenge a zombie.
Let alone walk, or understand a single command that mad dog gives.
So Else was clearly more developed at the opera house than when she lives the opera house.
Teresa The dream conversation is on page 91 chapter 8.
Just thought to give you the pages :-)
I don't think it odd that Else dreamed of Bad Dog and Haumann before she woke. In my opinion the Tankbread are fully formed humans, just tank-bred, and as such have various states of consciousness, as we all do. Her dream makes her more human, at least in my book.Perhaps the Tankbread are "born" in physical perfection, but their minds are a blank slate, a tabula rasa that awaits sensory data and information to help them learn. This is different from an infant's brain, which is still developing through its infancy and early adolescence.
Another way I tend to see it is the difference between stupidity and ignorance. Tankbread aren't stupid, just ignorant of the world around them, and, I would think, potentially dangerous to their keepers. Which is probably also another reason for the lobotomy prior to dinner service.
So, theorizing here. Maybe more questions and answers will be found in Woomera. Either way, Else is kicking some serious zombie-a!
Yes, I agree with you guys on the intelligence of Tankbread. I believe the reason she said the saw Bad Dog in a dream was because she DID!!! She was the piece of Tankbread whose sheet slipped off when Dr. Haumann was giving his tour. Remember? He described a tube going through her mouth and out her rectum with dark fluid and he couldn't tell which way it as even flowing. As he's looking at her in horror, she looks RIGHT INTO HIS EYES! So I definitely believe that's where that comes from. Dr. Haumann quickly sedates her. I think DrHaumann really DID have good intentions, but he ran out of time (in, what, I seem to be agreeing with the general consensus was a very rushed scene). But its my understanding that they lay on slabs until they have fully developed (which I have no clue whatthe very first scene, Soo Yong is chowing down on a girl. I don't know why I got the impression Tankbread is reusable, or at least a hefty expense. He was chomping down on this lady at a dinner table for Christ's sake. I guess I figure if you're 'highly intelligent,' as the evols of Sydney are supposed to be, I didn't think you'd have such bad table manners, even for a zombie. And he's not even eating her BRAIN! So now my question is: are they GIVING Tankbread away for free to keep the peace treaty, or are (were) they charging in order to keep research going???
*** I tried using a little HTML on here just to give it a test drive. Now I'm running into the issue that I can't see any of the spoilers that have been removed :-(. There's no link, no nothing. It sucks being stuck on a mobile device 98% of the time. Oh well...I'll live****
After my bolded 'what,' it was meant to say 'the parameters of being fully developed are.) In the literally the very first scene with Soo Yong...
Hmmm. Since Tankbread were originally meant to be for the military (as super soldiers?), and they are producing them in mass quantities, why not USE them as soldiers and fight the evols?If Tankbread get turned into evols, how long do they stay as evols? Would the expiration date still be in effect?
Man, those are some spot on question, Randy! I'd LOVE to know the answers...Still, am I the only one getting that Else's shelf life doesn't seem to be wearing out???
Randy wrote: "Hmmm. Since Tankbread were originally meant to be for the military (as super soldiers?), and they are producing them in mass quantities, why not USE them as soldiers and fight the evols?If Tankbr..."
I wondered why no use them to repopulate the human species in general.
I figured that until they figure out how to cure or vaccinate against the zombie virus, any clones serve to keep the zombies alive making it more difficult to battle them.
The logic that the clones will keep the human population alive is not valid, to me.
Clones as food for the zombies only keeps the so called intelligent zombies thinking.
In the last part of the reading assignments we learned that all zombies are linked together in their thinking in a hive like manor.
So feeding the intelligent zombies keeps the horde active and able to work as a single unit.
Any soldier clone or natural that dies or gets infected become zombies.
The zombies know that there is a limited supply of humans but a large supply of clones.
The zombies have no need to thin out the horde because of the clone food.
They have no incentive to keep the non-clones alive either.
And so I feel that clones are a bad idea.
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Great job with the html codes Teresa :)
