The Pickwick Club discussion
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Sketches by Boz
Sketches by Boz
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Our Parish, Sketches 3 and 4
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I very much enjoyed the elections for beadle, which reminded me of the political strife described in Pickwick Papers. Especially the speeches - "I will not say that ..." - were brilliant and probably due to observations Dickens made as a Parliamentary Reporter. I also liked the ironic way in which Dickens shows what kinds of argument were used by the candidates:"The breath was scarcely out of the body of the deceased functionary, when the field was filled with competitors for the vacant office, each of whom rested his claims to public support, entirely on the number and extent of his family, as if the office of beadle were originally instituted as an encouragement for the propagation of the human species."
In a way this faulty logic is still used in politics today, when people discuss a politician's way of speaking or his or her outward appearance.
It takes more discipline than I have to stick to the schedule. First sketch I read when I opened the book was "A Christmas Dinner" (of course), now I'm jumping around, when I'm not reading those on the schedule that is.The Four Sisters, the entire time I was reading it I kept thinking I had just read a story like it. But for a while I just couldn't remember when I had read this story or what it was. A story about four sisters who were always together. Hmm.. Then it hit me, in Nicholas Nickleby, chapter 6, the short story the gray haired gentleman tells in the public house when their carriage overturns and they wait for a new coach. The story is called "The Five Sisters of York" and on re-reading it is isn't very much like the four sister in the sketch, other than being together constantly, but that is what it reminded me of.
I see in the sketch of The Four Sisters our Old Lady and Half-Pay Captain of Sketch Two make an appearance:"They were so completely identified, the one with the other, that the curiosity of the whole row—even of the old lady herself—was roused almost beyond endurance. The subject was discussed at every little card-table and tea-drinking. The old gentleman of silk-worm notoriety did not hesitate to express his decided opinion that Mr. Robinson was of Eastern descent, and contemplated marrying the whole family at once; and the row, generally, shook their heads with considerable gravity, and declared the business to be very mysterious."
Again in sketch four "The Election for Beadle", the Half-Pay Captain not only makes an appearance but even gets a name:
"His great opponent in public life is Captain Purday, the old naval officer on half-pay, to whom we have already introduced our readers."
Kim wrote: "I see in the sketch of The Four Sisters our Old Lady and Half-Pay Captain of Sketch Two make an appearance:"They were so completely identified, the one with the other, that the curiosity of the w..."
It's interesting that the further Dickens goes the more individual his characters become even in the Sketches. It looks to me as though these Sketches were already finger exercises of the novelist shortly to appear rather than mere observations of everyday life.
Kim wrote: "It takes more discipline than I have to stick to the schedule. First sketch I read when I opened the book was "A Christmas Dinner" (of course), now I'm jumping around, when I'm not reading those o..."I'm not at all surprised that you started with the "Christmas Dinner", Kim ;-)
I've now finished the first seven Sketches, and I find it very hard to put the book away for a while. However, if I kept on reading, I'd feel the need to discuss my ideas, which would delay TOCS.
The Sketch about the Four Sisters did not really find much favour with me as it struck me as too odd and also a bit pointless. It's so exaggerated and unbelievable that in my eyes it did not go too well with the other Sketches. And yes, I also felt reminded of the Five Sisters of York although there were hardly any similarities. I also had to think of the Cartwright brothers from Bonanza, I mean all those unmarried guys living together on a ranch is also quite unrealistic.
Tristram wrote: "Kim wrote: "It takes more discipline than I have to stick to the schedule. First sketch I read when I opened the book was "A Christmas Dinner" (of course), now I'm jumping around, when I'm not rea..."If I had to live with my three sisters my whole life-and I do have three sisters- one or more of us would be locked up (either in a mental hospital or a prison) by now. :-}
Kim wrote: "Tristram wrote: "Kim wrote: "It takes more discipline than I have to stick to the schedule. First sketch I read when I opened the book was "A Christmas Dinner" (of course), now I'm jumping around,..."I have only one sister, but when it comes to being endangered to be locked up in a mental hospital or a prison, she sure knows how to push my buttons ;-)
Well, unrealistic or not, The Four Sisters had me laughing out loud. (The moment where he handed them all into the carriage got me.)And, in The Election for Beadle, women are voting?!?
Elisa wrote: "Well, unrealistic or not, The Four Sisters had me laughing out loud. (The moment where he handed them all into the carriage got me.)And, in The Election for Beadle, women are voting?!?"
Were they really? I didn't even notice that. I'll have to read that one again. Whenever I'm asked who I'm voting for I say the guy (or girl) who doesn't say anything negative about the other person. Then no one ever knows who I'm voting for. :-}
Well, I had to read it twice, because I couldn't believe my eyes.a great many ladies who were walking leisurely up to the church--for it was a very hot day--to vote for Spruggins, were artfully decoyed into the coaches, and voted for Bung.
I can't say that they're voting with great powers of discernment, but they do seem to be voting. (And I get the impression that no one's voting using great powers of discernment.)
Whenever I'm asked who I'm voting for I say the guy (or girl) who doesn't say anything negative about the other person.
Maybe people assume that you've found a clever way of saying that you don't vote. ;)
Elisa wrote: "Maybe people assume that you've found a clever way of saying that you don't vote". ;) You got it. :-}
Elisa wrote: "Well, unrealistic or not, The Four Sisters had me laughing out loud. (The moment where he handed them all into the carriage got me.)And, in The Election for Beadle, women are voting?!?"
Well, one can surely say the bridegroom got more than he bargained for!
Elisa wrote: "Well, I had to read it twice, because I couldn't believe my eyes.a great many ladies who were walking leisurely up to the church--for it was a very hot day--to vote for Spruggins, were artfully d..."
This is really an interesting point you're bringing up here, and quite a puzzler. Maybe woman were allowed to vote for the beadle because after all, it was a parish office, i.e. an ecclesiastical one. The beadle was paid by the Anglican Church and most of his duties were to do with the welfare system. So even if suffrage was denied to women on a national (and political) level, there might have been contexts - like church matters - in which women had the right to vote.
Are there any historians with a focus on British ecclesiastical history amongst us?
This is what I found so far:When did women get the vote? By Dr Sarah Richardson
The reason that women were able to vote was due to the fact that many local franchises were based upon payment of poor rates, irrespective of the sex of the person paying those rates. This was effectively a household franchise, and single or widowed women who owned or rented eligible properties were able to exercise the vote. The organisation and powers of local government had arisen from immemorial custom and incorporated elements of the common law as well as combinations of by-laws and private and public parliamentary acts. Thus Beatrice and Sidney Webb termed local government ‘an anarchy of local autonomy’. However, this local autonomy allowed a high degree of public participation.
In theory, women could also vote in parliamentary elections before 1832 as county, and many borough, franchises were based on property ownership. The Great Reform Act, however, specified for the first time that the right to vote was restricted to ‘male persons’. In 1835 the Municipal Corporations Act also excluded women, disenfranchising many who had previously voted for town councils. The focus on these two significant pieces of legislation has led many to conclude that the early to mid nineteenth century witnessed a masculinisation of the public sphere. Canvassing a lady voterThe emphasis on the parliamentary and municipal electorates also means that it is easy to overlook the fact that women continued to vote and to hold office for a range of local bodies, including overseers of the poor, surveyors of the highway and constables, as well as for parish servants such as sextons and beadles.
A key factor determining the assumption that women could not vote or hold office in the early nineteenth century is the lack of direct evidence. There are some indirect references in local newspapers.
http://victoriancommans.wordpress.com...
Thank you for finding that!Going to your link--I like "Grace Brown, who had four votes because of the amount of land she owned." We'd have thought Dickens was playing games, if he'd said that.
Kim wrote: "This is what I found so far:When did women get the vote? By Dr Sarah Richardson
The reason that women were able to vote was due to the fact that many local franchises were based upon payment of..."
I'm sure I'm much obliged for that kind of information, which is definitely more interesting than any knowledge on whiskey and whisky and long drinks, as it sets right a wrong idea I've had about franchise in 19th century Britain for a long time.
So this week there were "The Four Sisters", a rather bizarre account which did not seem very realistic to me, and the more boisterous "Election of Beadle", which shows Dickens's fine sense of how politics work.
What did you especially like or dislike about these two Sketches? Where do you see parallels with regard to Dickens's later works? Anything more to say about the question "types vs real-life characters"? And, best of all, what are your favourite passages?