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Lessons I've Learned
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Yo Denny, I agree with just about everything you said there :)
Seconded. Very good advice. I've read some horrible books from some pretty accomplished authors and also read some great books from unknowns. Keep at it and take all criticism with a grain of salt.
What is your opinion on Publishing Companies that charge you to get your worked published? I hear you shouldn't have to pay to get "your" work published? Is it best to get a literary agent? Is it best to self publish? Do traditional publishing? I am asking these questions cuz I'm working on a couple of novels and will eventually get them published. I just want to go with a publishing company that won't screw me over somehow. Thanks.
Money should flow TO the author, not away.That said, you can, indeed, pay to have your work published, but that's generally the kiss of death in this business if you want your work taken seriously by reviewers and book stores. The publishing companies that charge the author to publish are called subsidy or vanity presses. Some publishing companies, like CreateSpace and Lulu, don't charge anything up front, but they get their money on the back end, the price of the book, doubling the print charge before passing it on to the author. Now, they have their advocates, however, and some are better than others. Two of the better ones are Booklocker and Infinity. Booklocker's business model is built around selling books instead of "services" to the "author" and they're very upfront about what they can or cannot do for your book. They also do not take every book offered to them, and you had better have a marketing plan. www.booklocker.com
You can try for an agent, but being an unknown, you're in for a long wait and a lot of hoop jumping. Still, if you're young enough and reasonably photogenic and have some kind of backstory New York feels is marketable, you might have a shot. You will need patience and perseverance.
There are literally tens of thousands of small and independent presses who function more or less traditionally in that they don't take money from the author and pay a better percentage of royalty than the big guys in New York. My press is one of them.
Or you can truly self-publish--start your own company, buy your own block of ISBNs, learn editing, book layout and interior design, book cover design or outsource all of these services, contract with a printer such as Lightning Source, who prints for most of the independent presses as well as the big guys' backlists in New York. That's how I got my press started.
In all these cases though, all of them, you will have to market the book yourself. All these cases--subsidy, agent to publisher, independent press or true self-publishing--you will have to market your own book. There's no getting around it. No longer can a writer just sit and write and let the publisher do the marketing unless they're Stephen King or some other big name, most of whom made it before all these major changes in publishing took place.
No matter what route you choose to travel, you had better start marketing now--you'll need your own website at the very minimum--websites take time to get "found" by the online communities and, believe me, any prospective agent worth his or her salt, or any prospective independent publisher with the exception of the subsidies will Google your name to see what comes up. I am the executive editor of Jigsaw Press and I Google every writer I'm thinking of taking on.
I wish I could just be a writer, but those days are long gone. Now, I wear so many hats I sometimes forget I once was just a writer.
For what it's worth,
Mari
Mari... THANK YOU so much for taking the time to explain all that to me. It helps clear some things. It sounds like in the end it all about what works for me. All author have to start somewhere right. :) Thanks again.
I've learned so much reading these posts. As a new author, with a small publisher, I have gone back and forth about my decision to not hold out for the big guys. I think the most important thing is that your book is ready. I think I've been somewhat successful so far, though I have done a lot of the marketing myself. But it always boils down to a combination of that-the marketing-and the actual writing. In other words, the book has to be damn good to compete with so many authors out there.
A lot of enlightening information here...
Jen
author of Musical Chairs
Thanks, Denny and Mari, for the valuable, if disheartening, counsel. Reading it felt like a rerun of last night's Glee in which Doogie Howser showed up to inform the hopeful dreamers that their dreams, alas, would NOT be coming true. As you might imagine, they somehow managed to shuck off the discouragement and re-embrace their dreams by the end of the show. And that is what we, as writers, must learn to do after each rejection, after each night spent self-marketing, after each time we are told that we can no longer be merely writers. (This, by the way, is not some sort of subtle jab at the counsel provided above, which I do appreciate, but merely a less than jubilant acknowledgement of the truths it contains.)
This has to be one of the best things I've read on an author group, be it Goodreads, Linkedin, etc - well, ever.It completely echoes exactly what I've learned during my journeys through publication, and I couldn't have possibly voiced it better myself.
I have to say - I'm amazed you didn't get jumped for what some would call 'bashing' self-publishing (re: the kiss of death) as I've been set-upon countless times for voicing the same opinions other places. I realize 'bashing' self-pub is a rather crass adjective for what you said, but I really appreciate the caution you give to authors about it, rather than merely praising it like I've seen in so many other places.
Remember, like anything in life - people are going to be a lot more reluctant to pay you to do something, if you've shown you're willing to do it for free - or even pay for it. I know, I know - writing is a passion, not a business model, but it would it be so awful if you could make it both?
All in all, dynamite advice, and I really have to thank you for the time you took to share it with us.
Ian D.G. Sandusky
Grey Dogs: Zombie Survival
My one comment would be that it seems to me that CreateSpace and Lulu are in essentially the same category as Lightning Source: They're not really publishers, they're printers and distributors. They'll print your book and sell it to anyone who asks. You're the publisher and its up to you to sell. Last I checked CreateSpace was the cheapest and seemed like the easiest to work with of the three.I published a book with Lulu two years ago and I just came out with my second book with CreateSpace a week or so. I looked into Lightning Source but the other two seemed easier to deal with. Not having actually tried them, that's a subjective opinion based on what I read on their web site and a few comments I've read on other forums.
The issue of WHO is the publisher boils down to this, and only this: WHO owns the ISBN on your book?If you own the ISBN, then YOU are the publisher of record. If you let CreateSpace or Lulu or any other business entity PUT an ISBN on your book, then the ISBN provider--Lulu, CreateSpace, Joe Blow--is the publisher of record.
CreateSpace and Lulu make their money by offering both printing services and publishing services (hence the offer of the "free" ISBN).
Lulu will sell you a distribution package for around $149 and then promptly turn around and have your book printed for them (and you) at Lightning Source. Then they jack the price per book to YOU, so in turn YOU must jack the price to the consumer. You price yourself out of the market whereas if you went with LSI in the first place, yes, you're going to pay set up fees per book, but you can set your discount off list as low as 20%, you get all their distribution, including inclusion into Ingram's database (Ingram is the largest book wholesaler in the world and owns Lightning Source) for the cost of $75.00 set up for paperback.
With Lightning Source, you have to provide your own ISBN, making you publisher of record. Their product is consistent in quality.
CreateSpace doesn't allow for any lower than 40% off list and if you want cheaper books, they sell you a "pro" plan for 39.99 per year. They also offer an expanded distribution, meaning more retailers than just Amazon, for an extra fee. My one experience (and my last) with CreateSpace was a proof of a book I planned to send out for pre-publication reviews. I signed up for the "pro" plan to pay cheaper per book, but, and this is a huge but to me, when it came to shipping said proof, I paid over 11.00 (not including the price of the book) to wait almost two weeks to get the book PARCEL POST. I ship books all the time. I could've gotten the same book sent to me by media mail for $3.00 or priority mail for $4.95. Not only that, when I received the proof, the cover was crooked (off by over an eighth of an inch on the right corner, alternating interior pages were crooked, dropped by over an eighth of an inch. CreateSpace wanted me to send back the proof to see if it fell within their stated tolerances. I don't have time to play around with companies who don't realize that the proof is the first impression.
I asked for my money back, and was refunded only the cost of the "pro" plan.
I kicked myself in the butt for not staying with Lightning Source, and eventually did get the pre-publication books through them, USING THE SAME EXACT COVER AND INTERIOR FILES I'D GIVEN TO CREATESPACE. Lightning Source also did a marvelous job on the hardcover with dust jacket version of the same book.
You need to run the numbers as well as adding in the value of your time, not just go for what looks like a good deal, and you do need to understand that consistent quality products sell your future products like nothing else on Earth. I wouldn't touch a CreateSpace book now with a ten foot tall pole and I don't care who wrote it.
If you want to really do your homework, you should google BookSurge, because that's who CreateSpace was before being bought by Amazon. And from other publishers I've heard they haven't changed much, they certainly haven't gotten any better at printing. They're real good at getting your money though.
My original point was just that, from the point of view of the author, Lightning Source, Create Space, and Lulu are pretty much the same kind of animal. With any of the three, you pay some up modest up-front setup fees, you can then buy books to distribute yourself for a "printing cost" that of course includes some markup so they make a profit on the deal, and they will enter your book into distribution channels so that it is on Amazon, bn.com, etc, and is at least available to bookstores. (There are probably other companies out there with similar deals and I don't mean to slight them sight unseen.)I don't work for any of them or own stock in any of them so I have no vested interest. Well, except that I'd hate to see any of them go out of business as that would reduce my choices. I published my first book through Lulu two years ago and just a week or two ago I published my second book through Create Space.
As the three are offering essentially the same product, choosing between them comes down to quality, customer service, and price. Yes, the "shipping" charge for a proof from Lulu and Create Space is more than the actual postage. I presume that covers some handling fees. I'll use Create Space as the example because I was working with them most recently. I asked them to ship my most recent proof "economy" and they charged me $4 for shipping. It arrived by media mail in 6 days. The actual postage would have been around $2.70 I think. $1.30 for someone to pack the book in a box and ship it out doesn't seem unreasonable to me. Last I checked -- which is over a year ago, maybe things have changed -- Lightning Source charged $30 to ship you a proof. Yes, they send it express, but that's about the same amount that Create Space charges for express service. Create Space charges $49 for the pro plan. Last I checked I think Lightning Source charged $75 for setup fees.
I've had no problem with the quality of the books I've gotten from either Lulu or Create Space. All were beautiful and with no apparent errors. If you had a different experience, well, between the two of us we now have two pieces of anecdotal evidence, which isn't enough to draw conclusions either way. Maybe when I've been working with Create Space for a few months I'll start to discover all sorts of problems. For now, though, I have no complaints.
My point isn't to run down Lightning Source. I've never used them so I can't fairly judge. My point is just that I think you are unfairly running down Create Space and Lulu.
Well, I would think you weren't aware of the strong-arm tactics Amazon/BookSurge used against independent publishers in 2008 that resulted in a lawsuit by BookLocker (which BookLocker won). BookSurge morphed into CreateSpace. I have been with Lightning Source since 2006. I've been studying the business in earnest since 2003. There's a good reason why most independent publishers stick with Lightning Source.
And I'm not unfairly running any business down. Whatever reputation I'm reporting here, in addition to my own experiences, comes from anecdotal evidence collected over years as a member of two different independent publisher listservs.
If Lulu and CreateSpace works for you, go for it. After all, it's your money and your time and your work, not mine.
Mari
Denny, Thank you for the original post and thanks to all who have added comments based on experience. I will be beginning the book submission process later this year and have been trying to do my homework. It's a little overwhelming and pretty scary, but posts like this--with real-life author experiences--are so helpful and encouraging, even when they're a little discouraging, too!I know it's a tough world to "break into," but I've finally matured enough as a person and a writer to where I'm confident in my abilities to face each challenge as it comes and in the strength of my writing to take that next step.
Of course, I still have a lot to learn; so thank you to all you who have "gone before" me and willingly share your wisdom!
Writerpedia
Books mentioned in this topic
Grey Dogs (other topics)Musical Chairs (other topics)
Here are some random thoughts and lessons I've learned.
Most self-published books are pure crap. But so are most books published by the biggies.
As a self-publisher, one thinks the holy grail is to get your book into lots of books stores. It's not. Unless people are coming into the stores already looking for your book, very few will get sold by accident and the costs of getting your book into lots of stores will be way more than you'll earn.
Any sort of advertising that you pay for will not be cost-effective, unless you have a niche topic and advertise in a publication aimed at that niche market.
If your book is good, the best form of advertising is to send complimentary copies to people who might be able to help you.
One of the least important factors in the commercial success of a book is how well it's written. Lots of bad books make lots of money, and lots of great books make none.
You need to be able to describe your book in one or two sentences in such a way that people smile or laugh, or say, "That sounds interesting" and mean it.
If you send query letters to agents, save yourself money and don't bother including the "required" self-addressed and stamped envelope. All that you'll ever get back in those are form rejections. When you query an agent, just assume that you'll never hear back. If they're interested, they will either email you, call you, or send you a letter on their own letterhead.
If you have questions I might be able to opine on, fire away.
Best,
Denny Fried