Miévillians discussion
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Iron Council
Bas-lag 3: Iron Council
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IC spoiler thread 4: Anamnesis: The Perpetual Train
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Tssk, I didn't seem to get any updates for these posts, but anyway:I think it depends what you mean by 'positive results'. Some might argue that wealth and progress aren't so positive after all, but I think in the early twentieth century, it appeared to everyone to be a no-brainer that these were positive things.
But yeah, although I lacked some of you guy's insights when I made my initial comments, even I could see even then, that China is describing that thorny dichotomy of progress that also causes damage.
for some reason the translator on the machine has translated both my facebook and GR into Spanish and no one can help this time.seems odd,but I was able at to practice my Spanish a bit and have a chuckle picturing Trav and Derek speaking fluent Spanish.I am nervous about doing any updates but I assume mensaje means send
Magdelanye wrote: "for some reason the translator on the machine has translated both my facebook and GR into Spanish and no one can help this time.seems odd,but I was able at to practice my Spanish a bit and have a c..."LOL, too funny. I hope you can read this in English or any other language you feel comfortable with, Magdelanye!
Traveller wrote: "Tssk, I didn't seem to get any updates for these posts, but anyway:I think it depends what you mean by 'positive results'. Some might argue that wealth and progress aren't so positive after all,..."
I was trying to phrase that as neutrally as possible. While I'm OK with "wealth" as a concept (if not in most concrete forms) and gung-ho on technological progress, I don't consider "economic growth" to be a very good thing at all, even though most economists think it's not only good, but necessary.
But the point I'm trying to make is that somebody is always going to find a positive—in Allen's case, coal mining has obviously in a real sense made him what he is today—and people are always going to argue about what is positive and what isn't.
Magdelanye: "Trav and Derek speaking fluent Spanish". Right! Google Translate is, in fact, about as fluent as my Spanish :)
Dichotomy rules! Or not ... :) Seriously though, buried in this anamnesis, I guess there is the point that you have to live with some destruction to make progress - whether ways to extract coal for fuel or the train's passage (destruction of landscapes and life) across Bas Lag. Even the weaver destroys to make the overall web better.Still hard to swallow. I tend to agree with Trav that displacing natural landscapes with iron and concrete is her idea of hell. And I work in roads, so we do that in multiple directions times ten. So there comes that ambivalence you all pointed out ... CM sure knows how to make you feel good about yourself.
Weeellll... you know what I think is making it bad? Perhaps when too much of a good thing becomes ...just too much? I don't mind some roads and some railroads and some cities, in fact I find all of those darn convenient. As long as they don't destroy entire ecosystems.I don't mind some tar and concrete, as long as we still have at least some natural beauty and as much biodiversity as possible left...
Ahh, but where to draw the line? The further out into the sticks I go, the happier I am but in order for me to live out here, there has to be people willing to live in the noise and the pollution and the misery of the city.
Ruth wrote: "Ahh, but where to draw the line? The further out into the sticks I go, the happier I am but in order for me to live out here, there has to be people willing to live in the noise and the pollution..."Yeah, I live in the sticks, off-grid, but I put 50,000 km on my car every year. I'm not happy about that.
Ruth wrote: "Ahh, but where to draw the line? The further out into the sticks I go, the happier I am but in order for me to live out here, there has to be people willing to live in the noise and the pollution..."Traveller wrote: "Weeellll... you know what I think is making it bad? Perhaps when too much of a good thing becomes ...just too much? I don't mind some roads and some railroads and some cities, in fact I find all ..."
still having trouble with this translation thing'it keeps flipping back and forth as I try to keep it comprehensable...and that seems another example about helpful tech gone uncontrollable.
Obviously Ruths comment on Travs observation_should be placed after it...and my comment is more a wondering why people seem to believe that more is always better.
There are so many ways in which life could be improved for everyone,but as long as we are willing to settle for noise and pollution and misery,thats what we will have.
Here's another cool Mieville Invention (I think it is an invention): 'aleatori' as in "In the casinos track-laying men throw their money down alongside dandies with silver flintlocks and black silk hats: gamblers, cardsmen, aleatori."This word appears name another type of gambler. The final 'i' makes it a plural noun from the adj 'aleatory' which means "dependent on chance" at least that's what I am guessing.
Google finds lots of Italian references to aleatori (which seems to be the same meaning), so he doesn't seem to have created the word, entirely, but he may well have been the first to import it into English.
I think the Italian refers more to a state rather than a person using that state to define himself or at least his form of employment. I like the shift of meaning Mieville uses.
Okay, any takers for this one: "As the townspeople of the punk village get out of range the gambler releases a brace of dagger pigeons that gust bladily at Oil Bill, but with a rate of fire Judah has never seen before (clockwork and coil mechanisms refilling his cannon-hand) the fRemade shreds them and fires through their feather to send the Maru'ahmer sprawling wet and dead."
I would think that dagger pigeons do almost everything bladily. I think he might have created that one from scratch!
Yep, but isn't that sentence just so western! All it needs is a few cowboy hats and jangling spurs.
Yup, my reaction exactly ;) Yippee-kai-yay! (or however you spell it)
a brace of dagger pigeons that gust bladily at Oil Bill, but with a rate of fire Judah..."That 'bladily' is priceless. CM has quit the bit of a genius for creating words and ideas.
Ruth wrote: "Yippee-kai-yay! (or however you spell it)"The Urban Dictionary and Wikipedia both say "Yippee ki-yay, MF."
Hey, I only missed by one letter! (Okay, three letters, but I said the rest in my head, spelled out in full) :)
Well, the Urban Dictionary and wikipedia spelled it in full, too.
Miévillians
Books mentioned in this topic
Railsea (other topics)Embassytown (other topics)
Iron Council (other topics)
A Kiss Before the Apocalypse (other topics)
That's exactly what I've been saying for years (particularly about Atwood, who I read, but who annoys the heck out of me for this position). Thank you China, I could kiss you.