AN EXTENDED JOURNEY (September 2013

[Amy, Queen of Time]

Paul wrote: "Amy wrote: "Reading Question 2 Answer
[spoilers removed]"

I think you're on to something here! . . . partially. Lincoln, too. Harriet's definitely a Traveler, and she does try to explain. :-)"

I realized that one alternative was impossible. And then I reached the answer to what she is ... as much as anyone knows ... In my reading today.

[Peter]

You people are making me hungry.

[Amy, Queen of Time]

Peter wrote: "You people are making me hungry."

Have you read this yet, Peter? Funny the similarity with your book and Paul's ... other than having Jefferson in common. I think Paul's Jefferson isn't nearly the arse your Jefferson was, though. I like to think he might have fallen somewhere in the middle personality-wise.

[Amy, Queen of Time]

This popped up in my notifications this morning. I think they could do better, but it's at least somewhat amusing.

The American Revolution Assimilation Kit
If you are visiting 1763-1776, consider the American Revolution Assimilation Kit for your convenience. Kit includes a Time Travel Mart luggage tag, official Pastport, a mini bottle of TK Brand Time Travel Sickness Pills, a Duel Starter, and era-appropriate facial hair (facial hair varies).

[Paul]

Amy wrote: "This popped up in my notifications this morning. I think they could do better, but it's at least somewhat amusing.

The American Revolution Assimilation Kit
If you are visiting 1763-1776, consider..."

I love it. Though they can skip the facial hair, not in style then, but just wait a hundred years for real silliness. A safety razor would be nice.

[Amy, Queen of Time]

Paul wrote: "Though they can skip the facial hair, not in style then, but just wait a hundred years for real silliness...."

An era-appropriate wig would be a better choice.

[Lincoln, Temporal Jester]

Chapter 43

The only way to truly seize a scene is to memorize it. You have to study the faces and sounds and scents and setting. Grasp the joy yourself, let it flood your eyes and ears, absorb its warmth and energy through every pore, then tuck it away where your heart can always find it.

Such incredible writing Paul. Thank you.

(view spoiler)[I find what you wrote to be very moving both in the context of your book, the Jefferson's losing a child and what utter sadness that must permeate the household. However, a much deeper connection to anyone who has lost a child. They continue to live in our memories and in our hearts. (hide spoiler)]

[Howard]

Lincoln thinks: 'Such incredible writing Paul'

Lincoln, I'd agree.

Such examples are on every page.

Not to make Peter hungry, but Paul's prose is like melted butter; warm & tasty & ever flowing.

[Amy, Queen of Time]

I haven't gotten to the point where Jefferson is completely convinced to do something that would completely (view spoiler)[abolish slavery. I'm assuming it will be a request that he add it into the constitution (hide spoiler)]. But why stop there? Why not also petition Jefferson to (view spoiler)[allow former slaves and women to vote from the very beginning? He should clarify his revolutionary declaration that all men are created equal in order to eliminate a distinction between race or gender in equality and give all citizens the same rights to be free, vote, etc. You could leave all the other amendments for some other time, but let's give dignity to all citizens from the government's beginning. (hide spoiler)] Perhaps Paul does have Jefferson do this in the end, but I wanted to express my hope for it before I find out whether Paul was able to convince Jefferson to be so forward thinking or not.

[Paul]

Amy wrote: "I haven't gotten to the point where Jefferson is completely convinced to do something that would completely [spoilers removed]. But why stop there? Why not also petition Jefferson to [spoilers remo..."

I do like how you're thinking here, Amy. It may come down to what's possible and plausible, but, hey, we are dealing with Time Travel! I could say more, but will hold off for now; would love to hear what others think of the possibilities.

[Howard]

Paul would 'would love to hear what others think of the possibilities'

Oh, you will, my friend, you will.

And already have, if memory serves.

Heh heh heh

[Paul]

Lincoln wrote: "Chapter 43

The only way to truly seize a scene is to memorize it. You have to study the faces and sounds and scents and setting. Grasp the joy yourself, let it flood your eyes and ears, absorb it..."

Thank you so much, Lincoln. I felt as you do just imagining that household at such a sad time, the wrong time, sharing a tragedy that was all too common in the 18th century. Devastating in any century.

[Paul]

Howard wrote: "Paul would 'would love to hear what others think of the possibilities'
Oh, you will, my friend, you will.
And already have, if memory serves.

Heh heh heh"

Oh, good. I was hoping you'd notice that comment. Looking forward to it... I think. :-)

[Howard]

Responding to Amy’s last spoiler without resorting to such I’d say:

Amy, Any thoughts on how Time Travel could effect the past must still be couched within the context of the times, that is, given such a push change might be possible, but that change would only occur within the limits of the current, in place standards.

To affect a greater transformation you’d have to go back further, to cause a shift in the broader flow.

For me, to be believable any change must be Historically possible not just fanciful, or it becomes too far-fetched.

As Paul & I have already discussed this very issue at length, keep reading & then we’ll really have some give & take this month.

Go Time Travel.

[Howard]

And a point of order Amy, or anyone:

When I call up this thread I get the first page, not the latest post.

What's up with that, I wonder?

Am I going backwards or something?

[Amy, Queen of Time]

This page came up first for me. Must be related to the way you cruised in.

[Amy, Queen of Time]

Howard wrote: "Responding to Amy’s last spoiler without resorting to such I’d say:

Amy, Any thoughts on how Time Travel could effect the past must still be couched within the context of the times, that is, give..."

Now I'm imagining a USA with less rights given to the states to take away it's people's rights.

[Paul]

Howard wrote: "Amy, Any thoughts on how Time Travel could effect the past must still be couched within the context of the times, that is, give..."

Good point, Howard. We must be mindful of the historical context of the Times, and know it well, but when the element of Time Travel is introduced, those Times could change. The question is how much. I've yet to read a Time Travel story that isn't fanciful. Part of the fun.

[Howard]

Paul mentions: 'We must be mindful of the historical context'

No doubt a revolution provides a climate for greater change than just the normal conventions without war would & add in those pesky Time Travelers & yes, anything's theoretically possible, but to be credible any changes would still have to be plausible.

Just saying.

[Paul]

Howard wrote: "No doubt a revolution provides a climate for greater change than just the normal conventions without war would & add in those pesky Ti..."

Plausible is good, and more fun than probable. Some would question the plausibility of Time Travel, but we won't go there.

[Howard]

Paul, I have been there.

More than plausible.

Again, just saying.

Heh heh heh

[Paul]

"Some" would question, but certainly no one in this Group! I'm with you.

[Howard]

Amy's in need of the 9% solution.

Keep reading Amy, you'll see.

The real question is still unframed.

Go 9%.

[Amy, Queen of Time]

Howard wrote: "Amy's in need of the 9% solution.

Keep reading Amy, you'll see.

The real question is still unframed.

Go 9%."

Which is why I deleted my question. :)

[Amy, Queen of Time]

So when the tour guide asks the tourists if any of them ever owned slaves or had ancestors that owned slaves, my initial reaction was to think that surely my family never did even though I'm originally from Alabama. But now I'm remembering the faded photo I found in my grandmother's attic that I have somewhere. It's much older than the other photos of interest that I kept. On the back, it's simply labeled "d***ies picking cotton 1/2 mile North of Apache on Randall's Farm." I don't know how to date the picture. I don't have any relatives with that name, but it's too close for comfort. I wonder if it's a picture of slaves or freed men. I've always wondered. Does anyone know how to determine the date of a photo by the type of paper, mounting,etc.?

[Howard]

Amy, google Randall's Farm & look for somewhere near Apache; this might give you a time frame.

And answer me this: are the pickers moving or poising?

In early photos you had to remain still or the image blurred & if it's a shot taken near your grandmother's time, they're no doubt sharecroppers.

Economic slavery there, insidious in its own way but you are not your grandmother nor a product of her times & slavery was legal, even if disgusting.

That's the real paradox of Paul's book: the land of the free and the home of the slave.

Most Time Travel tomes are escapist, a light romp.

Not so here & it makes you think.

Only one of the things I liked, however.

[Amy, Queen of Time]

Howard wrote: "Amy, google Randall's Farm & look for somewhere near Apache; this might give you a time frame.

And answer me this: are the pickers moving or poising?

In early photos you had to remain still or th..."

Good hint. They're all poised. Although, I've seen a pictures from her childhood all poised, too. But the quality is far different.

[Amy, Queen of Time]

Howard wrote: "Amy, google Randall's Farm & look for somewhere near Apache; this might give you a time frame.

And answer me this: are the pickers moving or poising?

In early photos you had to remain still or th..."

The thing is that there is no Apache, Alabama. It could have been a community name. Or all that info could be incorrect since it seems someone tried to interpret pencil writings with pen at a later date. There is a whole paragraph of writing on the back done in pencil, but it's too faded to read. I'm thinking of copying it at work to see if I can get it to show up.

[Amy, Queen of Time]

Schapter 55 Harriett:(view spoiler)[ I didn't expect her to show up. If slavery was eventually abolished, she wouldn't have had need to operate her underground railroad nor had any reason to have become an anti- slavery activist with an agenda that spilled from beyond the grave. Right? (hide spoiler)]

[Howard]

Amy, there are ways to distinguish photos from film from those from glass plates.

If you're near a university or museum try to find an archivist, a good one may be able to tell & again this would give you a clue to Timeframe.

[Howard]

Amy wonders if Harriett has a 'need to operate her underground railroad'

Well, is Time a loaf of bread or a road map?

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...

[Paul]

Howard wrote: "Amy wonders if Harriett has a 'need to operate her underground railroad'

Well, is Time a loaf of bread or a road map?

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1..."

I prefer the loaf of bread. But the recipe could change.

[Howard]

Paul points out 'the recipe could change'

Exactly.

Depends on the baker, as you've demonstrated.

Cook on, McDuff.

[Amy, Queen of Time]

Howard wrote: "Paul points out 'the recipe could change'

Exactly.

Depends on the baker, as you've demonstrated.

Cook on, McDuff."

I seem to be reading the ending more slowly than I'd like, catching a few snatches between things like keeping an eye on a 3- year old taking her swim lessons into her own hands... and now she's discovered how to open the freezer to get at her favorite frozen peas. Gotta run!

[Howard]

Amy, I trust you pointed out that they're only frozen in Time.

Heh heh heh

[Amy, Queen of Time]

Finished. Will need to mull it over a bit before reviewing. Got a little bogged down after the climatic Jefferson incident since I tend to read war descriptions in the same voice that Charlie Brown's teacher uses: whaa whaa whaa whaa whaa whaa. I can't help it. Heck. My eyes even glaze over when watching movie chase scenes unless they're done slapstick style (Johnny English, etc.) or feature an interesting twist on the norm.

I need a different ending. When the others of you get to the end, let's discuss.

[Amy, Queen of Time]

POST-READING QUESTIONS
1. What did you think of the ending?
2. What do you think (view spoiler)[will be the future results of ending slavery early? (hide spoiler)]

[Howard]

Haven’t posted much for I agree with Amy & aside from the two of us who've finished & those who answered early questions, only Piero & Lincoln seem to be reading, yet I’m not sure about Peter but I do know we made him hungry.

Still for many reasons I think this book deserves discussion so Amy, I will talk to you off thread if you wish, until others catch up at least, but for now, a few general thoughts:

I very much liked this book for it was not what I expected, namely a great story that makes you think, always a plus for me that’s sadly a few & far between occurrence.

As I've said, the prose is most excellent, a first-rate command of the language, for example the humor used & the inner family dialogue in general, very believable & an almost effortless read, you’re drawn in from the get go.

The history was employed well also, again very credible & not laid on with too heavy a brush which can be rather stifling & his treatment of real people, not only the J’s & their surrounds, but many of the lesser characters and, as one who’s used this devise, I was impressed.

Because I am a writer, I also recognized his fine use of Myth, the ‘types’ used & how they related (as in the scene with the girl’s encounter with the soldier).

All effective storytellers use Myth even if they don’t express it with such jargon, nonetheless it never fails that if it’s a good story it’s always there, for such use of ‘types’ gives the back story without the narrative having to be explained & I also use this convention & so could very much appreciate his excellent use of it in this book.

He spun a wonderful tale, rich in texture not only for scene & placement but also for thoughts & feelings, etc., around a single gripping thing, a normal family thrust into the un-normal & unknown.

I did have issues: namely the details of Time Travel & of course, his choice of ending, which is quite unique & why I thought it met this month’s category.

I’m for discussing these things in detail here, without spoilers but will hold off until more members have finished the read.

But Amy, if you’d like, as I said we certainly can talk off thread.

[Lincoln, Temporal Jester]

The End...or a blessed new beginning...A true Revolution

(view spoiler)[I was so wrapped up in David's and Monica's quest. I had such feelings of pride, and patriotism. Once the groundswell of anti-slavery was taking hold, I was a bit anxious for David and the kids to go home or at least avoid danger so openly. The writing was so vivid and believable I cared so much. I am happy that Paul left out some of the graphic and inhumane treatment of slaves that are in depicted in "Roots"...thus I can promote the book to teenaged neices and nephews. Also, if Robert and Nancy had gotten in trouble for being free, I would of been very upset.

I think this book should be read in every high school in America...I understand the characters desire to stay in old Williamsburg but I am also curious to see how 2006 has been changed because of what they have done. Furthermore, I am curious if Paul has continued writing so that we can continue living in this newly established timeline. (hide spoiler)]

Thank you Paul, fantastic read!!

[Howard]

Lincoln, very well put.

I think you got it & Paul will be pleased by your recommendation.

[Paul]

Always an inspiration:

If you hear the dogs, keep going. If you see the torches in the woods, keep going. If there's shouting after you, keep going. Don't ever stop. Keep going. If you want a taste of freedom, keep going.”
― Harriet Tubman

[E.B.]

Lincoln wrote: "The End...or a blessed new beginning...A true Revolution

I was so wrapped up in David's and Monica's quest. I had such feelings of pride, and patriotism. Once the groundswell of anti-slavery was..."

I felt the same way. I enjoyed the perspective in this story in particular because (view spoiler)[ most time-travel books I read stick to the "don't change anything" rule. I was also hoping for a sequel to see how the world turns out and how much of an impact their actions made. (hide spoiler)]

[Amy, Queen of Time]

E.B. wrote: "I felt the same way. I enjoyed the perspective in this story in particular because..."

Exactly. I want to read more time travel books that actually do (view spoiler)[change history. It's as if most authors are afraid to change history because ... obviously ... nothing has changed in the world in which we live. Then they end up taking a parallel earth stance. Another version I'd like to read is where the author starts out with a history different than the one we know, has characters time travel, and then change history into the world that we know. (hide spoiler)]I think that's why I like time travel stories so much; there are so many different ways they could work out and so many different takes on what rules apply to the time travelers.

Oh, wow. It's so much easier to type in spoiler tags with a desktop computer than the 2 minutes it takes on a tablet

[Howard]

E.B. (where you been?) & Amy are talking in spoilers:

I'd agree with you ladies, for the closer I came to the end, the more I knew it had to happen, which of course, it never did & this, on top of everything else, was an added mind blow.

However, I took exception to the Historical turn of events on general principle for I felt the path portrayed assumed certain things I would not think to be so possible, even given the changes.

In my opinion, there were larger issues at stake & events would not have flowed so smoothly.

It's hard to explain without spoilers, but this issue was NOT a giant concern, just an informed opinion.

I think everyone can tell I very much enjoyed the book & Paul should be proud of his art & I hope he is.

Another point was 'the how' of how the Time Travel happened & I've not seen any mention of this point here, again NOT a problem for me, just a difference from what I write.

[E.B.]

Amy wrote: "E.B. wrote: "I felt the same way. I enjoyed the perspective in this story in particular because..."

Exactly. I want to read more time travel books that actually do [spoilers removed]I think that'..."

Me too. It is hard to pick out books that use time travel this way, especially from book descriptions. I think Paul took a chance with the storyline (and came out a winner, I will add) because so many writers are afraid to tackle (view spoiler)[changing events in time (hide spoiler)].
I agree, that's why I love time travel, too. Anything can happen, if it is portrayed in a believable manner. It makes my head hurt sometimes, but it's all good.

[E.B.]

Howard wrote: "E.B. (where you been?) & Amy are talking in spoilers:

I'd agree with you ladies, for the closer I came to the end, the more I knew it had to happen, which of course, it never did & this, on top of..."

Hi Howard! (waves) Missed you! Been around, just super duper busy, every second of the day. Missed all you guys. :) And btw, sorry for the derail-- but I am so freakin' glad to see John back. (End derail)

I think (view spoiler)[ changing that kind of occurrence in history was taking a huge risk, and I must give kudos for that. Even in the few time travel stories I can think of where they changed things, it wasn't anything that would impact history itself. (hide spoiler)] So I was willing to let some of my unanswered questions go because the story played out well in other regards.
Hope that makes sense with the spoiler tags, haha!

[Paul]

Howard wrote: "However, I took exception to the Historical turn of events . ..."

I'll take exception to Howard's exception, but only because we both enjoy it. My own belief, based on extensive research just short of borrowing Howard's machine, is that (view spoiler)[abolishing slavery was both possible and plausible as described. (hide spoiler)] Given the context of the times, including community standards that were in place during the Revolution, and a convergence of moral, economic, political, and leadership factors, (view spoiler)[this is how it could have happened. In this story, thanks to Ms. Harriet and friends, (hide spoiler)] America gets a second chance.

Looking forward to your BEL next month, Howard!

[Howard]

Paul takes 'exception to my exception'

Paul, as I've told you, you know my reasons & as you've explained to me your reasons & given no one else has mentioned any reasons, I guess they've got no problem with the reasoning of your reasons, so it does indeed seem that my reasoning's the problem & not your said reasons.

Thing is, when you're as old as me & find yourself in my circumstance, well then, the slant of your reasoning might just change, but no biggie, your book is great ether way.

So, will there be a spin off & if not, what's your reason?

[Paul]

Your reasoning is totally reasonable, Ancient One, and you're the guy with the machine. Rather than a spinoff, would a TJ sitcom be reasonable?

[Howard]

Heh heh heh