Police Procedural /Forensic Crime General Discussion

[Skye]

Hmmm; this writer does sound interesting.

[Britney]

I was thinking about trying a Joseph Wambaugh book. What would be a good book to start with?

[Skye]

I reviewed Echoes in the Darkness, but he has written many, including the Onion Field.

[Gary]

I have been curious about realism in police procedurals set in Britain. I have read that DIs and below do most (all?) of the field investigating while the higher ranks supervise. However, in books and TV shows you see DCIs and above (to include the rank of Commander in one famous author's series) doing interviews and other field investigation. Is this realistic?

Another question is about the size of the investigating force. While I could imagine that a serious terrorist bombing might call for a large number of officers, is that usually the case? The books and TV shows of Lynda La Plante (Prime Suspect and the Anna Travis series) have large numbers of police investigating the crime. Is that realistic?

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

Britney wrote: "I was thinking about trying a Joseph Wambaugh book. What would be a good book to start with?"

The Onion Field. My absolute favorite of his.

[Skye]

Nancy: I loved the film---never read the novel.

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

Skye wrote: "Nancy: I loved the film---never read the novel."

the book is way better!

[Skye]

As all novels are, don't you think?

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

Skye wrote: "As all novels are, don't you think?"

I don't know if that's always the case, but for me, there's generally more to get out of a novel than a movie.

[Skye]

I know there are valid comparisons: eg: The Shining, Salems's Lot, and One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest; In addition, Heart of Darkness by Conrad and Apocalypse Now

[Afsana]

I didn't like the one Joseph wanburgh book I tried.

re task forces I think they r on big cases. and in the Anna Travis books don't think the task force was that big.

[Skye]

Then there is also Gary Gilmore and Executioner's Song.

[Lance]

Britney wrote: "I was thinking about trying a Joseph Wambaugh book. What would be a good book to start with?"

You should start with the novels that made him famous, such as The New Centurions or The Blue Knight .

The Onion Field is nonfiction, but it's supposed to be very good.

[Skye]

Echoes in the the Darkness.
Lance how do you italicize and underline>

[Lance]

Skye wrote: "Echoes in the the Darkness.
Lance how do you italicize and underline>"

Above the "comment" box, you should see something that says "(some html is ok)". That will show you the HTML codes you can imbed in your comments.

I added the underlined titles using the "add book/author" tool above the comment box.

[Skye]

I tried that in the past, but I'll give it another shot; Echoes in the Darkness see it didn't work.

[Skye]

It worked!!!!

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

Skye wrote: "Then there is also Gary Gilmore and Executioner's Song."

Skye, The Executioner's Songis one of my all-time favorite books. I read it a long time ago, and absolutely loved it.

[Skye]

I never read, and I hate to admit that.

[Jean]

then what are you doing here?

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

Jean wrote: "then what are you doing here?"

Jean, I think Skye meant that she's never read The Executioner's Song, not that she never reads. Obviously she does read -- if you take a moment to go look at her shelf you'll see she's a busy reader.

[Skye]

Jean wrote: "then what are you doing here?"

Jean, I should have included the pronoun---'it.' I never read The Executioner's Song and I wish I had.

[Skye]

Nancy wrote: "Jean wrote: "then what are you doing here?"

Jean, I think Skye meant that she's never read The Executioner's Song, not that she never reads. Obviously she does read -- if you take a m..."

Hugs, Nancy: I have been sloppy because I mult-task when I respond to these threads: I just began teaching ( 25 years at a university) and I also grade many academic essays vetted from ETS to my PC ( busy time for people trying to come to the States, go to grad school or become certified in teaching). I try to read all I can, when I'm awake.

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

Skye wrote: "Nancy wrote: "Jean wrote: "then what are you doing here?"

Jean, I think Skye meant that she's never read The Executioner's Song, not that she never reads. Obviously she does read -- i..."

I've got your back, Skye! No need to defend yourself here at all.

[Skye]

You are so kind, Nancy!!!

[Jean]

Skye wrote: "Jean wrote: "then what are you doing here?"

Jean, I should have included the pronoun---'it.' I never read The Executioner's Song and I wish I had."

so sorry....too fast off the mark I guess.

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

Jean wrote: "Skye wrote: "Jean wrote: "then what are you doing here?"

Jean, I should have included the pronoun---'it.' I never read The Executioner's Song and I wish I had."

so sorry....too fast off the mark..."

I'm sure Skye didn't take it personally! Thanks, Jean.

[Skye]

Jean; it's ok, and thanks, Nancy: I should be more careful, because it's what I teach---I have NO EXCUSE! And Nancy's right; I didn't take it personally; I was embarrassed at myself, though.

[Bookie]

I am a huge crime/murder novel fan. Nothing goes too far for me. haha Terrible I know. I must recommend my recent favorite. First Night of Summer Chilling to the bone and left me not wanting to close the pages. Not for the faint of mind or heart. Masterfully written, walking right up to that line without crossing it. Breath-taking in its prose. A must read for your 2015 shelf.

[Skye]

Wow, Bookie, and thank you!

[Jamie]

Hello from a new member!

Some interesting views on here, I love a crime thriller and think that forensic detail can offer a healthy, supplementary storyline. Not sure I'd enjoy a book wholly focussed on it though.

Regarding procedural while I can see the appeal a recent La Plante thiller ('Backlash') had all of her usual class but the heavy procedural emphasis made it feel a bit dry for my personal tastes.

Always happy to be disagreed with and as a debut author myself I understand the challenges of balancing these elements!

[Ken]

Can't believe its been nearly four years since I've been on this board. Now I'm back with a question. I'm trying to differentiate between the duties/responsibilities of the crime scene investigator and the coroners deputies.

I have a main character who has transferred from the coroner to the crime lab as they are separate in the jurisdiction where the story takes place.
Generally speaking I'm assuming the coroner determines cause of death and the crime scene people work primarily with other evidence.

Suppose the coroner, during an autopsy, discover blood or skin under the fingernails of the victim. Do they run DNA and then forward the findings to the crime lab or do the samples go to the crime lab?

While working for the coroner, the character discovers an accidental drowning is actually a homicide by finding out the salt water in the victim's lungs is actually from bath salts in fresh water. This seems the provenance of the coroner but what happens from there? Who would testify in court to that fact. Certainly they work together but I don't want my investigative units treading on the other's turf.

[Gary]

I don't know the answer but don't you think you should state where this is supposed to take place? I expect it makes a difference.

[Ken]

Orange County, CA. Both agencies are part of the County Sheriff who provides forensic services to most local cities. Day to day police operations are in the unincorporated areas of the county and with smaller contract cities.

[Sherry]

As to your question about the labs and DNA samples, all samples go to the crime lab first, in most jurisdictions. All DNA, etc., is done there. It is a crime lab, afterall.

Also, there is a difference in composition between bath salts and ocean salt water. There are fragrance and skin softening agents involved in bath salts. Salt water has algae and other substances in it. Don't take offense, but as a hint, fish swim and poopoo, too. There are plant particles, fish scales, and other stuff. This is not found in bath salts. There is actually very little "salt" involved in bath salts.

[Steven]

Hello! First time poster to the mystery corner of Goodreads, as I've been more active over in Fantasy. My first three novels were in the fantasy genre, but my next book will be a murder mystery. It's inside me and -needs- to be written, so forgive me for jumping genres (that has a nice ring to it).

Anyway, I am looking for some basic background information that will pertain to my new book. Specifically, I need to talk with someone who was a sniper in Afghanistan. It will fill in the backstory of my main character, and I want to make sure I mention the unit he served in and the timing of when he served correctly and realistically.

Also, I am curious about crime scenes in rural parts of America. Is it plausible for a local sheriff to visit a murder scene and summarily declare it to be an accident, "Nothing to see here, just bad luck. Move along, move along" without it going to a grand jury or being up to the local DA to pursue a full-fledged investigation?

[Sherry]

Hello Steven:

Yes, it is possible. I remember a series of murders in my small town. Seven, to be exact. We had 23,000 people in that town and the mob from Detroit was there quite often. One of the muckety-mucks of the town was a mobster.

Anyway, during the investigation of these murders, the police stated that they would not do anything to stop them, even though they knew who did them. The reason stated by all police: who cares if a bunch of drug addicts/dealers kill each other off? We will just let them do it. And they did, to the tune of 7 in one week. For your story, you need to have background stuff where cops are discussing something similar (happened in the '70's). Also, in that same small town, they did not do fingerprinting on crime scenes (did not want to and did not own a kit: period!). They did not own a rape kit for rape cases. (the cops believed in the '70's that most women were dogs and were either lying or did something to instigate the rape. Not true in every case. Some, sure, for paybacks, but there were cases of real rapes and the guys would just make the women sound like whores. The men would band together and destroy any woman who came forward.) I kid you not.

Nothing would ever go to the grand jury, there was no DNA or full-fledged investigation. The only one I knew of who did investigate was a deputy sheriff friend of mine. He did pursue leads and sneak stuff out. He did quite a few arrests on some murders, but I think even he did not pursue some stuff. It seemed like someone would run behind his back (mob related) and have his cases destroyed and the man in the process.

Yes, you are spot-on about rural America. I have seen it in action. Another case where a man was obviously murdered. His eyes were covered, his hands were tied behind his back, he feet were bound, and he was hung. The problem with this: it was ruled a suicide. How?

Good luck,
Sherry Leveck/Demented by Sherry Levesque

[Audiothing]

Gary wrote: "I have been curious about realism in police procedurals set in Britain. I have read that DIs and below do most (all?) of the field investigating while the higher ranks supervise. However, in books ..."
Hello Gary,
The British TV shows use police advisors to ensure authenticity, however, I imagine there is some use of literary licence. The Metropolitan Police have media advisors, they are happy to answer questions, you will find them on the Met. Police website

[Walt]

@Steven: each branch of the armed services has a public relations/ public information/ press office. Phone them. If you get the right person and if you sound legit, they'll give you a lot of information or steer you to a source.

@Ken. The coroner aka medical examiner would not do a dna test, and keep in mind that dna results often take weeks. Having just had a procedural published ("Manhattan Roulette," still open on a giveaway) i can tell you that you can google almost anything you want to know about procedures. I was lucky enough to have a friend of a friend who's an NYPD detective to check with but again, after you learn all you can from google, if you still have questions, try your local precinct.

[Ken]

Damn, I should have asked while I was in the drunk tank last weekend.

[Jean]

Susan, I tried to like the Bones TV show, but I just couldn't like the characters after reading the books.

I just read a book by a new author, R.C. Johansen, The Skeleton Friend . The protagonist is a recently suspended EMT who has a burning desire to see justice done after she literally stumbles upon a skeleton. Johansen shows promise, I think.

[Sabrina]

Susan wrote: "Thanks for the links!

I guess it would be better if they were, but I found this book fine on its own."

There are details and a few story plots and characters that cross from one book to the next so reading them in order might be best. I however have almost given up on the series because along with the few continuing cross over bits there are quite a few glaring inconsistencies going from book to book as well as within each book itself later in the series that drives me nuts.