YA LGBT Books discussion
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Are we widening the portrayal of LGBTQ characters in YA books? Enough?
I must say I love dystopian YA novels like the The Hunger Games, Divergent, Matched, ... and dystopian novel in general (1984 is one of my top five all-time favorite books). When I became GR member I acidentally stumbled upon The Culling and was ecstatic and wanted to find more YA Dystopian novels with gay charactes. And then more YA novel with gay protagonists in general, but while there were some great once, it looked rather meager in the paranormal/fantasy/post-apocalyptic/dystopian. There are some great coming of age stories, but I enjoy the easy flowing YA style most in imaginative AUs. I agree that there are more stories like that popping up, like the current BotM Proxy. And I think it's very helpful that books like the mortal instruments series, starting with City of Bones, feature gay supporting characters that have left the annoying stereotypes behind and reflect the diversity of our world much better as well as creating some allies in the mainstream audience. I love how decicivly Cassandra Clare defends her decision to include gay characters in her series, even though it makes me sad that she even has to. But I do believe that attitudes are changing and YA stories with gay protagonists have more of a chance in today's more liberal climate. (Good Riddance, DOMA). :D
I liked City of Bones - there are definitely more gay characters supporting in mainstream books too, and not always as the stereotypical gay best friend, and that's a good thing too.
I read an article recently in the Hedgehog Review that suggested the current popularity of the Post-Apocalyptic/Dystopian fiction is the way the myth of the self-made American man has evolved- for our grandparents, the myth of the self-made man was the gold standard, but for the current generation, the structures of modern society and culture have to be destroyed, in order to allow the characters to rise to their potential. A disturbing thought, but appealing. The only way forward is to destroy everything and start again? Sort of clearing the slate, and starting again with new rules? I can understand why this appeals.
Especially to younger people whose time frame of reference is shorter, maybe, because rebuilding seems faster and cleaner than modifying.
Gay characters have come a long way in YA literature. Lesbian characters less, Bi characters hardly at all and Trans characters are just starting to show up. It's going to take a long time to really widen it enough. Bisexual remain mostly invisible. Trans characters, and I include my own novel in this, mostly follow a simple acceptable narrative. How race, religion and social status influence LGBT characters is still fairly wide open. There are so many less explored sexualities, queer, pansexual, asexual, etc. I agree we have come a long way but there is still a lot further we can go.
I think it's an interesting thought that Dystopian literature is so appealing for young adults, because they would rather have the old world destroyed and prove themselves in a new world that go about modifying it.However, I do think that many YAs believe that the decisions of the past have already set the world on a path of destruction or drastic change. Technology is developed faster than humans really understand it, Weapons of mass destruction are developed that could destroy the whole world, issues of Climate Change are being ignored until it is too late, many minorities are still being discriminated against, ... there is hunger and war in many places around the world and to many readers of YA dystopian novels the structures of our society seem pretty thin and might dissolve if the pressure against them is too high.
For me the two extreme responses to an attack to our society would be either the fall into chaos whithout rules (post-apocalyptic) or a strong goverment response that modifies society to adapt to new circumstances (dystopic)
If I look at extreme situations of disasters or war, I find myself asking how strong our hold onto the values and morals of our society would be. Would we fall to anger and greed or would we stand up for others instead of looking out only for ourselves. I think it truly needs an extreme circumstance for characters to prove who they are at their essence. In our society we are rather safe, but if everything were to change (as it might) we would find out who we are, stripped of everything our society says we should be. :)
Rachel wrote: "Gay characters have come a long way in YA literature. Lesbian characters less, Bi characters hardly at all and Trans characters are just starting to show up. It's going to take a long time to reall..."I must say, though, that I loved the way the Tamir Triad Trilogy takes the issue of living in a wrong body and uses magic in it's fantasy setting to make the issue more understandable for mainstream audiences. Once basic understanding is there, it is easier for mainstream audiences to accept all the diversities of people to be represented among literary protagonists. The Bone Doll's Twin follows a princess, who through magic grows up in the body of her dead, male twin so she could survive her uncle's reign. It shows her confusion and struggle with her fathers attempt to supress her true instincts. Hidden Warrior shows her more aware of who she is inside and that she is living in the wrong body. Her confusion about growing up as a boy, while really being a girl inside and the complicated nature of the feelings she has towards her best friend. The Oracle's Queen reveals her in her true form after a magical sex change and she has to adjust to her true self, the way people view her and her sex change and what it means for her and her feelings.
That was at least the way I read it and to me it was truely eye opening. It would be great to have more books of such nature that can introduce concepts that seem foreign to people in a way they can understand more easily. We also discussed Gender Trouble: Feminism and the Subversion of Identity in several of my university classes and I felt like having read the Tamir Triad helped me greatly to be more open to the concepts she introduced, even though it it a fantasy story with magic.
Marc wrote: "I think it's an interesting thought that Dystopian literature is so appealing for young adults, because they would rather have the old world destroyed and prove themselves in a new world that go ab..."
Maybe this is the appeal of this fiction, that we can push characters to their extreme limits and see what rises to the pressure. And I agree with you, Marc- the Post-Apocalyptic and or Dystopian future seems actually very near. Maybe the snowball is already rolling down the hill! If the kids have had less to do with building the current world, then it might be easier for them to let it go.
It would be so difficult to invest your life's work into something, only to realize at the end--like Alec Guinness in the Bridge over the River Kwai. I think most of us aren't as brave as that character, and instead of blowing it we would cling to our bridge.
Maybe this is the appeal of this fiction, that we can push characters to their extreme limits and see what rises to the pressure. And I agree with you, Marc- the Post-Apocalyptic and or Dystopian future seems actually very near. Maybe the snowball is already rolling down the hill! If the kids have had less to do with building the current world, then it might be easier for them to let it go.
It would be so difficult to invest your life's work into something, only to realize at the end--like Alec Guinness in the Bridge over the River Kwai. I think most of us aren't as brave as that character, and instead of blowing it we would cling to our bridge.
I'm just glad that these stories get people to think about politics, the environment, war, peace and moarlity. Sometimes I feel like a frog in hot water that increases in heat until it boils. If there is a sudden change, people at least realize something is happening. But through technology the world around us changes fast, even without us realizing just what is happening. It is frightening how much of a big brother society we have already become. How much propaganda is used everywhere, how children get toys that are not for playing but to buy more stuff. I mean I love technology and the internet and that I can Skype for free with my parents in china. But I think we are closer to those dystopian world than we like to think ...
Marc wrote: "I'm just glad that these stories get people to think about politics, the environment, war, peace and moarlity. Sometimes I feel like a frog in hot water that increases in heat until it boils. If t..."
Maybe an unconscious awareness of these issues is behind the recent increase in backyard chicken coops! Why do I feel this urge to learn how to knit socks? Or start canning peaches?
Maybe an unconscious awareness of these issues is behind the recent increase in backyard chicken coops! Why do I feel this urge to learn how to knit socks? Or start canning peaches?
I'm not quite ready to become a prepper, but unfortunately I don't doubt that there will be problems ahead. Human are outside of the natural order and rising into unsustainible numbers, while we pump poison into the air and the sea and destroy trees (the natural filters) left and right and the deserts expand, making less land habitable. It's just not possible that it can go on like that. Resources will dwindle and there will be many wars for clean drinking water and other rare resources. In my mind the only question is when. :(
Marc wrote: "I'm not quite ready to become a prepper, but unfortunately I don't doubt that there will be problems ahead. Human are outside of the natural order and rising into unsustainible numbers, while we pu..."
well, we have the YAs to think and act us out of this disaster of our own making. We better give them some good stories in trade!
well, we have the YAs to think and act us out of this disaster of our own making. We better give them some good stories in trade!
I do like that more diverse characters are showing up in contemporary books, and not just in fantasy/SF/paranormal/dystopian. Those were perhaps the first place where you could have people matter-of-factly gay as MCs (like in The Door Into Fire back in 1979.) But now there are books with gay MCs that are contemporary where being gay is not the plot focus. I think that's an area that we should see growth too, not just having more books about wider ranges of LGBTQ individuals, but more books where the LGBTQ is just a facet of the MC who is doing something else in the book.
Kaje wrote: "I do like that more diverse characters are showing up in contemporary books, and not just in fantasy/SF/paranormal/dystopian. Those were perhaps the first place where you could have people matter-o..."I love that there are quite a few mystery books where the MC just happens to be gay. Where the focus lies on the mystery :)
Rachel wrote: "Gay characters have come a long way in YA literature. Lesbian characters less, Bi characters hardly at all and Trans characters are just starting to show up. It's going to take a long time to reall..."Rachel I have a book in the works where the male protag is asexual. It follows what he goes through, unable to handle physical contact, even from his own mother. How he looks into almost every sexual orientation trying to find somewhere he fits, but he doesn't fit in anywhere. I doubt it will be complete before mid 2014 though. There is a lot to cover in this book as not many have ever tackled the subject.
My wish is that it might open the door, and show asexuals there are others like them, and there can be hope if you know where to look.
On another note. There is a book out called;Caleo where the protag is gay and so is the author. It is a YA fantasy read and it is pretty good. Just make sure you get the corrected edition.
My novel Slayers has several gay secondary characters in it. It is a dystopian on a different plane. Genetic evolution. And in my world gay/straight is inconsequential. However my agent and I are in the dark presently on where the publisher plans to market it. We presented it as YA but it might be marketed new adult due to the darker world.
I think in the coming year or two we will see more published with LGBT protags or secondary characters. It is becoming more accepted everyday, and authors are beginning to realize that.
My contemporary YA novel Dolphins in the Mud is about a 16-year-old boy whose mother abandons the family because she's tired of taking care of her autistic daughter. The main character, Chris, is gay, but the book isn't about him being gay. And in my urban fantasy novel Fresh Meat, the story is about the main character being turned into a werewolf at age 15; he just happens to be gay. (Or bisexual, if you ask him...)I also have a contemporary short story out with an asexual main character, though that one is about him being asexual and getting his family to understand it.
I have a paranormal YA coming in October (I think...) with a F to M transgender main character. The story starts with him being kicked out of his house, but it isn't because he's trans; it's because he's psychic and has pyrokinetic powers with which he accidentally set a rapist on fire.
My daughter and her friends are at several points in the LGBTQ spectrum; my daughter identifies as a gender fluid bisexual, her two best friends are a gay couple who are talking marriage, and another close friend is lesbian. She also has a friend who went through a period of saying she was F to M transgender but now says that was "just a phase". All of them tell me they wish there was more fiction about teens like them, where the sexuality and gender aren't the focus. That's why in most of my books, those things are facets of a character who does something else rather than the plot of the story.
Jo also has a story with a bi/polyamorous MC, which is another neglected area in YA.
I don't think there's enough lesbian fiction in YA.
Julia wrote: "I don't think there's enough lesbian fiction in YA."I agree - the number of M/M books far exceed anything else, including F/F.
I would love to see more Transgender as well... It is so important that our authors in this genre hear that---the more we can present our family in the proper light the more that society will be able to understand there is nothing "wrong" with LGBT.
There has been a lot of diversity lately!Check out the list of upcoming books for 2014....
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/4...
Lots of LGBT MCs, and even lots of fantasy and sci fi books.
I really think we're at a kind of tipping point for LGBT characters in fiction (at least in the English-speaking world) in both YA and adult books, as more major authors begin to include LGBT characters in their work, and more variety is appearing. Far from full representation, but a huge shift in just a few years.
Kaje, I agree. With today's historic moment from football player Michael Sam, I believe this will become even more commonplace.
I'm so impressed with him, especially for doing so before his draft, and for being open with his team before this. And with all the others whose speaking out is sending such a clear message that the closet is opening at last.
Kaje - Just finished Us Three and reviewed it. Did a very good job of not 'typecasting' YA characters as much as typically see. I actually enjoyed it and think it is a great one to help people think about how to approach 'bullying' at school without seeming overly 'preachy'. It is also non-standard with a polyamorous situation.
It's on my TBR list. Polyamory is rare in YA.
Kaje wrote: "It's on my TBR list. Polyamory is rare in YA."Exactly. Which is why I entered into it with trepidation (sp?). But it turned out VERY well... nothing over the top, and had a great message.
You can thank Marc for sending it my way ;)
Great! (I wrote a poly YA short story once and always thought there should be a novel.) This sounds like a good one.
Kaje wrote: "Great! (I wrote a poly YA short story once and always thought there should be a novel.) This sounds like a good one."Mia did it in such a way as to make it believable. I would love to see yours! :)
Mtsnow13 wrote: "Mia did it in such a way as to make it believable. I would love to see yours! :) ..."it's here: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/... (Or the edited and expanded version is in the free collection Rainbow Briefs)
Thank you, Kaje! Looking forward to it :)Btw, have you read The Other Me? I think it was a very well done YA F-M transgender story.
Dang. I really loved that little story, Kaje. And I agree. We need more like that. Kids these days don't put themselves in boxes.. My daughter (first year at college) was telling me she has one girl friend that is gay, and another that identifies as pan sexual. I think it's us adults that have all the hang ups...
Not yet - F-M has special meaning for me, though. I'll have to look at that book. It's odd - sometimes I don't read stories about something that I'm trying to write. I have F2M in Rainbow Briefs too, and might expand it to a novel sometime. And sometimes I worry about inadvertent borrowing of someone else's ideas. At the same time it is a topic I'm eager to see explored for YA.
Kaje wrote: "Not yet - F-M has special meaning for me, though. I'll have to look at that book. It's odd - sometimes I don't read stories about something that I'm trying to write. I have F2M in Rainbow Briefs to..."I understand about the ideas thing..onLy way to keep it fresh is avoid other's stories... But, l just read yours AFTER reading Mia's, and it was great that they were so different! Some similarities, but very few. Yours needs a back story, then the last year of high school, like you mentioned!
I'd read that in a heartbeat. I'm trying to get others to consider YA as I seriously believe that is the way to get books in our libraries..it's a start, and our young people need something just for them too, EDUCATION AND EXPOSURE. :)
Oh. And reading The Other Me...well she has an interesting style, and it's very 'South Afrikaans ' so I don't imagine there being many similarities? I'm fortunate that I get exposed to some interesting YA while proofing. *smiles*
Mtsnow13 wrote: "Oh. And reading The Other Me...well she has an interesting style, and it's very 'South Afrikaans ' so I don't imagine there being many similarities? I'm fortunate that I get exposed to some inter..."
Probably not then. I'll bump it up my list.
In case anyone is looking, there's a poly relationship in The Summer Prince by Alaya Dawn Johnson. The MC is straight, her best friend is gay or bi, and the guy they're both in love with is bi. There aren't any threesomes or anything, but both the MC and her friend are sleeping with him. Since it's set way in the future, this is just a normal aspect of their society.
I love fantasy and SF for the ability to have easy, bigotry-free depictions of LGBT sometimes. It's good to have places in books where it's not even an issue. The Door Into Fire series is like that, where most folk are bi, and who you choose depends entirely on the person.
Thank you! I'll add them both to my TBR right away! ;)
Kaje, evidently there is more input on Tumblr about what they want to see in YA books? http://harmonyinkpress.tumblr.com/pos... (maybe more kids go there than GR, ATM)The archive has some really great articles! http://harmonyinkpress.tumblr.com/arc...
I just selected per month, then was able to pick whatever looked good to me;)
I know of another YA book that involves a poly relationship, but that doesn't come into being until near the end of the book and therefore isn't fully explored -- and I hesitate to mention which book it is, because the possible relationship combinations for the characters involved is a significant plot point.
Kim, now I'm curious! Maybe you can spoiler tag it? Or send me a PM with the name of the book?
I was advised by a publisher *not* to write a YA novel with a polyamorous situation... based on the way their response to my question was phrased, they were conflating polyamory with polygamy, particularly the Warren Jeffs brand of polygamy.Definitely not the same though... Polygamy is one man marrying more than one women (polyandry is one woman marrying more than one man). Polyamory is merely loving more than one person, and I think teens are as capable of that as anyone. To me it's a... not necessarily sexual orientation, because love does not always equal sex, but a relationship orientation, maybe? I know when I was a teen, the whole "serial monogamy" thing my peers seemed to practice didn't make sense; in real life and in fiction, I never completely understood why people couldn't just share.
Off-topic, but I see some people considering writing poly characters, and just wanted to point out that some publishers would be opposed to this. (If you're curious about which publisher gave me that advice, feel free to PM me, I would rather not name them publicly.)
I'd be totally interested to find a YA book with a polyandrous society. I know that's not the same as polyamory, but it would be really cool to explore. I imagine it would be more receptive to publishers if it were in the sci fi or fantasy genre. It would also make more logical sense because there aren't really any polyandrous societies on Earth that I'm aware of. Maybe some tiny tribes, but nothing widespread.
Carnival is sci fi with a matriarchal and sort of polyandrous society (but gay MC couple). It's not YA, but it would be fine for YA readers.
I have been waiting to see if a writer will write a YA where the MC is a son or daughter in a polyandrous, or polygamous family. It might be something I'll write someday, but not for awhile. I am more interested in writing things closer to my heart at this point. But I have a cousin in a poly compound in Idaho...so I know the dynamics, among other issues they live with daily.
YA LGBT Books
Books mentioned in this topic
The Thunder in His Head (other topics)Dawn of Darkness (other topics)
The Fall (other topics)
Ethan of Athos (other topics)
Knight Errant (other topics)
More...
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/entert... I particularly agree with the need for more books with diverse characters, but it's coming.
The second is a discussion that addresses specifically dystopian YA and its heterocentric focus on forbidden relationships.
http://www.yalsa.ala.org/thehub/2013/...
I feel that this one misses the boat a bit. True there are few dystopic books about forbidden gay love, but they're not needed, precisely because that's still the contemporary reality. There are dystopian books with gay MCs - Dawn of Darkness and The Fall being two off the top of my head. And there are SF (SciFi) books where being gay is accepted or even the norm in some places. (Ethan of Athos, Knight Errant) I think that author needs to look further afield although I admit if she's looking for the same with lesbian MC's the pickings are a lot slimmer. What do you guys think?