Orcs: Men or Elves?

[Tahca]

Do Orcs live as long as men or elves?

[Geoffrey]

Considering how easy it is to slay them, I suspect not. They breed like rabbits and they greatly outnumber the good guys, but easily defeated.

[[deleted user]]

Hi my name is Daisy
I am an author and a complete and total Lord of the Rings devotee.

The orcs don't have the extended lifespan of the eldar.
Men too had lost much of their capacity for extended life. Only Aragorn and the Rangers, the last of the men of Numenour still had that capacity. Faramir had inherited it too but his brother Bormir had not.

The first orcs were from tortured elves forcibly bred with goblins. This is explained in the Two Towers as Saruman goes one better and creates the Urukhi army.

I believe its also said as the group cross the darkness of Moria that Thorin's grandfather was also slain by Orc's.

I do hope you don't mind me jumping in on this one.
Cheers

[Gary]

Naiya wrote: "Aren't they supposed to be corrupted elves/evil's answer to elves? I'm guessing they'd live as long as their elven cousins, when they're not being killed off in pitched battle.

It's been a while ..." The Orcs were once elves until Sauron corrupted them. It's not explained how.

[Somdeb]

I never knew that elves had been forcibly bred with goblins to create Orcs, though I had heard that they were fallen elves.

[Gerd]

Daisy wrote: "The first orcs were from tortured elves forcibly bred with goblins. This is explained in the Two Towers as Saruman goes one better and creates the Urukhi army..."

The foreword to "The Lord of the Rings" says that Goblins are Orcs, Tolkien used originally the word Goblins in "The Hobbit", but changed it to Orcs when he wrote LotR.

[Paul]

I believe orcs were first bred by Melkor (Morgoth), as mentioned in the Silmarillion, as a mockery of the elves, and captured elves that were corrupted may have been used.

Orcs seem not to be known to be long lived, though there are a couple of orc chieftains (father and son) who lived in excess of 100 years.

[Ashley]

Orcs are essentially evil elves in tolkiens middle earth. I dont know what goblins would be classified as.

[[deleted user]]

On the longevity scale, orcs would be at the bottom and elves at the top.

[Starchaser]

When the first elves awoke in the lake Cuivienen, one of the Valar (Orome, I believe) came to ask them to come with him to Valinor. Most came with him (the Eldar). Some traveled all the way to Valinor (the Calaquendi), some stayed behind on the shore in Beleriand (the Sindar and Laiquendi).
Those who never started the journey (the Avari), had to live on their own, without any support from the Valar. When Morgoth (Sauron's master during the First Age) came to Middle-earth, he found and captured some of them. They have been tortured and corrupted for a long time and in the end, they became foul and spiteful creatures that are now called orcs.
(source: The Silmarillion)

[Alexandra]

Starchaser wrote: "When the first elves awoke in the lake Cuivienen, one of the Valar (Orome, I believe) came to ask them to come with him to Valinor. Most came with him (the Eldar). Some traveled all the way to Vali..."

You are absolutely correct. But does this corruption shorten their lifespan? Elves only die of natural causes when they "fade" - what happens to orcs? I can't remember it ever being stated.

[Elentarri]

I think it was in the Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien or maybe the History of Middle-Earth series, but Tolkien changed his mind about how orcs originated. It was originally that Morgoth corrupted elves, but then he changed it to corrupted men... I don't think he came to a final decision.

Edit: Found this link as a reference: http://tolkien.cro.net/orcs/origin.html

[Alexandra]

Elentarri wrote: "I think it was in the Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien or maybe the History of Middle-Earth series, but Tolkien changed his mind about how orcs originated. It was originally that Morgoth corrupted elves,..."

Very interesting link, thank you. I suppose the answer depends on whether an intention by Tolkien to change the version given in The Silmarillion, as referenced in Morgoth's Ring: The Later Silmarillion, Part One : The Legends of Aman can be considered canonical, in the absence of a written alternate version.

And the case for orcs having the same quasi-immortality as elves was well-argued. My feeling is that we have to take the Silmarillion version; although Tolkien may have dithered, he does not seem to have definitively changed it.