Arthuriana -- all things King Arthur ! discussion
Malory's Le Morte D'Arthur
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Barbaross a wrote: "This combined with the fact that many knights he encounters are thugs by comparison shows the importance of "blood" over actions in the society. But then again, Gareth is one of Lot's boys so he's of noble origin anyway. I can't help wonder how easy it was to become "enobled" if you were of common origin during Malory's time..."
Malory was a snob--no doubt of it. Social mobility was becoming a little easier in Malory's own times, but in his book, if you weren't born into a "good" family, you've no hope. It seems as if the only test of virtue is whether or not you're of noble blood. Look at how scandalous it is that a shepherd should ask for his stepson to be a knight; but when it turns out that Pellinore raped the shepherd's wife, everyone's okay with that.
!
On the other hand, apparently humble beginnings are no true indicator of worth, because you might really have noble blood, and the noble blood will show itself in how worthwhile you become. Arthur is brought up in obscurity, like Torre, but you can't hide his nobility; Mordred, although nobly born, is the product of incest, and necessarily turns out bad. It's very deterministic.
Sir Tor's brother's become knights too, though, and they were supposed to be very good, right?
Clara Rosalie wrote: "Sir Tor's brother's become knights too, though, and they were supposed to be very good, right?"From what I can gather it's only Tor's 1/2 brothers that become knights, Pellinore's aknowledged sons, not the brothers he shares a mother with. But they do turn out to be hard as nails if memory serves and include Percival and Lamorak. His other brothers probably end up spear fodder or die of hypothermia on a hillside while guarding sheep...not as "noble" as a grail quest, but without the shepherds the knights would have no income from the estates or wooly socks...and on that note, over to Python:
ARTHUR: How do you do, good lady. I am Arthur, King of the Britons.
Who's castle is that?
WOMAN: King of the who?
ARTHUR: The Britons.
WOMAN: Who are the Britons?
ARTHUR: Well, we all are. we're all Britons and I am your king.
WOMAN: I didn't know we had a king. I thought we were an autonomous
collective.
DENNIS: You're fooling yourself. We're living in a dictatorship.
A self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working classes--
WOMAN: Oh there you go, bringing class into it again.
DENNIS: That's what it's all about if only people would--
ARTHUR: Please, please good people. I am in haste. Who lives
in that castle?
WOMAN: No one live there.
ARTHUR: Then who is your lord?
WOMAN: We don't have a lord.
ARTHUR: What?
DENNIS: I told you. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take
it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week.
ARTHUR: Yes.
DENNIS: But all the decision of that officer have to be ratified
at a special biweekly meeting.
ARTHUR: Yes, I see.
DENNIS: By a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs,--
ARTHUR: Be quiet!
DENNIS: --but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more--
ARTHUR: Be quiet! I order you to be quiet!
WOMAN: Order, eh -- who does he think he is?
ARTHUR: I am your king!
WOMAN: Well, I didn't vote for you.
ARTHUR: You don't vote for kings.
WOMAN: Well, 'ow did you become king then?
ARTHUR: The Lady of the Lake,
[angels sing:]
her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur
from the bosom of the water signifying by Divine Providence that I,
Arthur, was to carry Excalibur.
[singing stops:]
That is why I am your king!
DENNIS: Listen -- strange women lying in ponds distributing swords
is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power
derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical
aquatic ceremony.
ARTHUR: Be quiet!
DENNIS: Well you can't expect to wield supreme executive power
just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!
ARTHUR: Shut up!
DENNIS: I mean, if I went around sayin' I was an empereror just
because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me they'd
put me away!
ARTHUR: Shut up! Will you shut up!
DENNIS: Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system.
ARTHUR: Shut up!
DENNIS: Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system!
HELP! HELP! I'm being repressed!
ARTHUR: Bloody peasant!
DENNIS: Oh, what a give away. Did you here that, did you here that,
eh? That's what I'm on about -- did you see him repressing me,
you saw it didn't you?
This combined with the fact that many knights he encounters are thugs by comparison shows the importance of "blood" over actions in the society. But then again, Gareth is one of Lot's boys so he's of noble origin anyway.
I can't help wonder how easy it was to become "enobled" if you were of common origin during Malory's time. Obviously the lifetime of martial training was more available to those born into nobility, otherwise it was probably longbows and reaping tools.