Background, resources, reading schedule

[Tristram]

In order to give the group still a bit of extra time to finish Nicholas Nickleby before starting The Old Curiosity Shop in October, we will read the first seven Sketches, which were grouped as Seven Sketches from Our Parish.

They are comparatively short so that even those who are deeply immersed in NN can maybe find time to read and discuss them.

I'd like to suggest the following reading schedule:

Sep 9th - Sep 15th: Sketches 1 and 2
Sep 16th - Sep 22nd: Sketches 3 and 4
Sep 23rd - Sep 29th: Sketches 5, 6 and 7

[Tristram]

Whenever we have some time between Dickens's novels, i.e. some people having finished the book, others still following, we might deal with the other Sketches by and by.

[Everyman]

Tristram wrote: "In order to give the group still a bit of extra time to finish Nicholas Nickleby before starting The Old Curiosity Shop in October, we will read the first seven Sketches, which were grouped as Seve..."

For those who don't have a copy of the Sketches, and who does (well, Dickens fanatics, yes, but not us normal folks!), you can download them here in various formats (including reading on line in the HTML format).

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/882

[Kim]

Everyman wrote: "Tristram wrote: "In order to give the group still a bit of extra time to finish Nicholas Nickleby before starting The Old Curiosity Shop in October, we will read the first seven Sketches, which wer..."

I do and no I'm not normal and never intend to be (too boring). :-}

[Karen·]

I expect you already looked at workhouses when you did Oliver Twist - do you know this excellent web resource?

http://www.workhouses.org.uk/

I found it particularly useful for the history of the Poor Laws: it's there on the left hand column to be clicked on, as required.

[Karen·]

The Beadle is one of Dickens's favourite targets. I was surprised to learn when I was doing a bit of extra, roundabout reading this year, that there was no proper, professional system of local administration in England until well into the 1870s, when the Elementary Education Act meant that some areas had to create a school board, and it was from this school board that local councils emerged.

[Tristram]

Thanks, Karen, for adding the reference to the website. Alas! had I but more time to dig up and read background information - because I think that especially with regard to the Sketches this would be necessary to appreciate them as Dickens's contemporaries did.

[Elisa]

This is a great idea. I hope we do add a few of the Sketches between the books.

[Tristram]

Elisa wrote: "This is a great idea. I hope we do add a few of the Sketches between the books."

Yes, our idea is to add some of the Sketches whenever there is some buffer time between two major reads. That is if people are at all interested in reading these early Dickens texts. Saying that, I've just learned from my edition that not all of these texts are really "early" Dickens and even the earlier ones were quite carefully revised by their author.

[Tristram]

·Karen· wrote: "The Beadle is one of Dickens's favourite targets. I was surprised to learn when I was doing a bit of extra, roundabout reading this year, that there was no proper, professional system of local admi..."

My Penguin edition says in one note (p.585):

"The basic administrative division of local government, originally an area having its own church and clergyman; governed until the Local Government Act of 1894 by a body known as the vestry, from the vestry-room attached to a church or chapel, where ratepayers elected the parish officers, that is, the vestry-clerk, churchwardens and overseers - the latter being in charge of relieving the poor in the parish."

[Pip]

Great idea! Looking forward to joining in with this :-)

[Jonathan]

Yeah, I think this is a great way to devour the Sketches and maybe some other shorter works of Dickens along the way. We tried this after Oliver Twist with Mr. Minns and His Cousin; we had some participation, but since then the group has grown and so has the number of active participants. I'm looking forward to this, as well as to reading The Old Curiosity Shop, which comes with some mixed reviews from certain members of ours. We'll see how everyone likes it.

[Everyman]

Tristram wrote: "I've just learned from my edition that not all of these texts are really "early" Dickens and even the earlier ones were quite carefully revised by their author.
"

Although the Preface to the Gutenberg edition says
The whole of these Sketches were written and published, one by one, when I was a very young man. They were collected and republished while I was still a very young man; and sent into the world with all their imperfections (a good many) on their heads.

They comprise my first attempts at authorship—with the exception of certain tragedies achieved at the mature age of eight or ten, and represented with great applause to overflowing nurseries. I am conscious of their often being extremely crude and ill-considered, and bearing obvious marks of haste and inexperience; particularly in that section of the present volume which is comprised under the general head of Tales.

But as this collection is not originated now, and was very leniently and favourably received when it was first made, I have not felt it right either to remodel or expunge, beyond a few words and phrases here and there.

If he did really carefully revise them, then he's dissembling with us here!

[Tristram]

I have got the Penguin edition with an introduction by Dennis Walder, and he actually points out that Dickens said he hardly made any changes to the Sketches but that this is, in fact, not true. So, indeed, Dickens seems to be dissembling with us here.

[Kim]

When I started Sketches last week, I read the Preface to the first edition, then the Preface to the second edition, and next was Preface to the second series, and I was considering skipping to the Sketches, but I read it and the first paragraph had me smiling:

"If brevity be the soul of wit, anywhere, it is most especially so in a preface; firstly, because those who do read such things as prefaces, prefer them, like grace before meat, in an epigrammatic form; and, secondly, because nine hundred and ninety-nine people out of every thousand, never read a preface at all."

[Kim]

When I read the first Sketch I got thinking about beadles in general, then I got looking and this is what I found:

Beadle, sometimes spelled "bedel" is derived from the Latin "bidellus" or "bedellus", rooted in words for "herald." He was originally an official of the Roman Temple. The word Beadle has also been used to describe early policemen and church or parish wardens.

The Livery Companies, as they evolved, needed a point of contact between the Master, Wardens, and Court of Assistants and the Livery in general. They therefore appointed (and paid for) a Beadle, who took care of the Company's meeting place ('Hall'), called the Court members and/or Livery together on behalf of the Master, and enforced any disciplinary measures decided by the Court.

The Beadle would also find suitable apprentices, and would organise the social and ceremonial functions. He was, in summary, a policeman, an almoner, a friend, social worker and communicator.

He would be issued with a Staff of Office, often wrongly called a mace, with which to protect the Master and enforce discipline. The Staff is usually a tall one so that it could be used as a rallying point at Common Hall etc. when the Livery was summoned to "Attend upon the Master".


Whilst the Livery all lived and worked within the Square Mile, the Beadle was able to summon them personally, but, as people became dispersed, there grew a need for someone who could write and so use the new postal services to summon the Court. The humble Clerk then began his rise in importance to his position today as the chief executive of the Company. The office of Beadle, meanwhile, has become a ceremonial function.



Now of course I have to go see what Livery Companies are. I'll be back. :}

[Kim]

And I'm back:

The Livery Companies of the City of London are various historic trade associations almost all of which are known as the "Worshipful Company of..." their relevant trade, craft or profession.[1][2] The medieval Companies originally developed as guilds and were responsible for the regulation of their trades, controlling, for instance, wages and labour conditions. Until the Protestant Reformation, they were closely associated with religious activities, notably in support of chantry chapels and churches and the observance of ceremonies, notably the mystery plays.

The beadle info I got from an extremely interesting, to me anyway, beadle website:

http://www.thebeadlesoflondon.com

[Karen·]

Fascinating, Kim, thanks for the info and the link.

Just in case there should be any misunderstanding (sorry if I'm being a bit patronising) this is a different kind of beadle than the one Dickens is writing about. (Obviously). It's always interesting to see where the name comes from.

[Jonathan]

Kim: Thank you for the interesting research.

It may be a different kind of beadle, but the position probably evolved from the aforementioned one along with the name. That's my uneducated guess anyways, as the one Dickens is describing wears many hats (nice pun), some of them cocked!

[Kim]

Beadle, sometimes spelled "bedel," is a lay official of a church or synagogue who may usher, keep order, make reports, and assist in religious functions; or a minor official who carries out various civil, educational, or ceremonial duties.

The term has Franco-English pre-renaissance origins, derived from the Vulgar Latin "bidellus" or "bedellus," rooted in words for "herald." It moved into Old English as a title given to an Anglo-Saxon officer who summoned householders to council.

In England, the word came to refer to a parish constable of the Anglican Church, one often charged with duties of charity. A famous fictional constabulary beadle is Mr. Bumble from Charles Dickens' classic Oliver Twist, who oversees the parish workhouse and orphanage.

In Judaism a synagogue attendant

Also an official in certain British universities and other institutions.

George Wells 1903-1989.
American biologist. He shared a 1958 Nobel Prize for discovering how genes transmit hereditary characteristics.


There, take your pick. :-}

[Tristram]

I have been thinking about how we are going to pass our time between the end of Barnaby Rudge and the beginning of Martin Chuzzlewit. We already said that we wanted to go on with the Sketches.

Now my question is how many Sketches we could read. From April 24 to April 30 it's seven days - so should we say seven Sketches, all in all, i.e. one Sketch a day; or rather four Sketches, i.e. one Sketch more or less every other day?

What do you think?

[Kate]

Tristram wrote: "I have been thinking about how we are going to pass our...

I've been reading them with just a few to go, so I'll just join in with the discussion when you guys have finished.

[Tristram]

So then I'm suggesting for our in-between group read the following five Sketches:

1. The Streets - Morning
2. The Streets - Night
3. Shops and Their Tenants
4. Scotland-yard
5. Seven Dials

These are the first five that go under the heading "Scenes", all in all covering some thirty-odd pages. We are not in a rush, after all, but want to do this in a leisurely way.

[Kim]

That's fine with me.

[Kate]

That's good with me too.

[Tristram]

So then cf. message 23 for our reading schedule!

[Kate]

Tristram wrote: "So then cf. message 23 for our reading schedule!"

Cool. Are you going to create a thread for each sketch?

[Tristram]

Kate wrote: "Tristram wrote: "So then cf. message 23 for our reading schedule!"

Cool. Are you going to create a thread for each sketch?"


Actually I had wanted to create one for the first two and another for the remaining three sketches fearing that otherwise the threads might not contain too many contributions.

But it is probably easier to navigate if every sketch has its own thread. So then I am going to open the threads on Sunday as usual.

[Radhamani]

Kim wrote: "And I'm back:

The Livery Companies of the City of London are various historic trade associations almost all of which are known as the "Worshipful Company of..." their relevant trade, craft or pro..."
A very interesting thread about medieval companies and their associations with mystery plays later on,a topic which i read in My English major during my undergraduate days -especially mystery plays.Thanks for posting it here.

[Tristram]

Dear Fellow Pickwickians,

I'm digging this thread up again in order to propose the following reading schedule:

29/01/15 - 04/02/15:

06. Meditations in Monmouth-street
07. Hackney-coach Stands
08. Doctor's Commons
09. London Recreations
10. The River


05/02/15 - 11/02/15

11. Astley's
12. Greenwich Fair
13. Private Theaters
14. Vauxhall-gardens by Day
15. Early Coaches

All in all, this would mean about forty pages a week, i.e. roughly the same (maybe even slightly less) than during our Dombey time.

I will probably open threads on Sundays, giving each Sketch an individual thread even if I may not always have a lot to write about them. I'm sure you will!

[Everyman]

Tristram wrote: "Dear Fellow Pickwickians,

You and your European dates!

For the Americans among us, here are the correct dates. [g]



I'm digging this thread up again in order to propose the following reading schedule:

Jan 29 - Feb 4:

06. Meditations in Monmouth-street
07. Hackney-coach Stands
08. Doctor's Commons
09. London Recreations
10. The River


Feb 5 to Feb 11

11. Astley's
12. Greenwich Fair
13. Private Theaters
14. Vauxhall-gardens by Day
15. Early Coaches

[Linda]

Everyman wrote: "You and your European dates!

For the Americans among us, here are the correct dates. [g]"

Thank you! I couldn't get past the dates to even begin to look at the list of Sketches... :D

[Stormie ~ Book Dragon ~]

LOL! I totally spaced on the dates as well. Thanks for clarifying. :)

[Hilary]

Or 29th Jan. - 4th Feb. etc.

This, the Irish understand as it is logical. ;-)

Tristram's dating system is more complete, of course ...

[Kim]

Everyman wrote: "Tristram wrote: "Dear Fellow Pickwickians,

You and your European dates!

For the Americans among us, here are the correct dates. [g]

Thank you, now I don't have to do it. :-}

[Kate]

Tristram wrote: "Dear Fellow Pickwickians,

I'm digging this thread up again in order to propose the following reading schedule:

29/01/15 - 04/02/15:

06. Meditations in Monmouth-street
07. Hackney-coach Stands
08..."

Thanks Tristram. Hopefully I can make it for more 'Sketches'!

[Tristram]

Kate wrote: "Thanks Tristram. Hopefully I can make it for more 'Sketches'!"

That would be very nice indeed, Kate!

[Tristram]

Everyman wrote: "Tristram wrote: "Dear Fellow Pickwickians,

You and your European dates!

For the Americans among us, here are the correct dates. [g]



I'm digging this thread up again in order to propose the fo..."


Thanks for, as usual, translating my European date system into the American system, Everyman! I won't even try to adapt the American way for fear of completely getting muddled up, and so it's good when somebody translates these things lest people miss the dates.

[Kim]

Tristram wrote: "Thanks for, as usual, translating my European date system into the American system,"

Hmm....so your system is day/month/year. Well, at least you got the year right, although since we all knew that we were reading the Sketches in 2015 you could have skipped the year entirely. Oh well, maybe you'll learn someday. :-}

[Tristram]

Kim wrote: "Tristram wrote: "Thanks for, as usual, translating my European date system into the American system,"

Hmm....so your system is day/month/year. Well, at least you got the year right, although sinc..."

Skipping the year? Have you not yet noticed that I am a pedant?

[Kim]

Tristram wrote: "Skipping the year? Have you not yet noticed that I am a pedant?"

I had to go look up the word pedant. Your picture is next to it.

[Everyman]

Kim wrote: "Hmm....so your system is day/month/year. "

And then there are the computer programmers among us, or at least the ones who learned programming forty years ago, for whom dates will forever be yyyymmdd. Why? Because that makes putting dates in order much, much simpler.

[Tristram]

Everyman wrote: "Kim wrote: "Hmm....so your system is day/month/year. "

And then there are the computer programmers among us, or at least the ones who learned programming forty years ago, for whom dates will forev..."

Yes, of course, when you file documents on a computer, you had best go by the rule yyyymmdd, but in everyday life dd.mm.yyyy is - don't ask me why - the most logical thing to come up with ;-)

After all, in my native language you don't say thirty-one but one-and-thirty :-)))

[Tristram]

Kim wrote: "Tristram wrote: "Skipping the year? Have you not yet noticed that I am a pedant?"

I had to go look up the word pedant. Your picture is next to it."

You mean a pedant is the same as a pumpkin?

[Bionic Jean]

I think these sketches are read between other reads, Lindsay.

[Tristram]

Yes, Lindsay - Jean is right: Some time ago we made the decision not to read the Sketches in one go but to squeeze some of them in between whenever we finished one of the major novels. This way there would be some time for those who have not caught up yet, and also some opportunity to let the impressions on the novel sink in a bit.

[Dee]

Looks like we're reading these sketches in between the Dickens novels, which we're reading in order (since Dombey is followed by Copperfield)? Then I'll be doing the opposite... Going to take a pass on Copperfield - the only Dickens I didn't like and couldn't get through - and focusing on the sketches until we start Bleak House.

[Linda]

I had put a hold on a copy of Sketches at the library but I haven't picked it up yet and I'm not sure I'm going to be able to fit them into these next two weeks. If I can make time to get over to the library soon, I will try to fit at least a couple in. Otherwise, I will catch up with everyone for David Copperfield.

[Linda]

I went to pick up my copy of Sketches on hold at the library today, only to find out the hold expired yesterday and so it was en route to another library. So, I guess DC is next on the list for me.

[Tristram]

Linda,

it's just one week and a half to go, and then we'll start with DC.