Vanity Fair (Heather, Laurel and anybody else interested)

[[deleted user]]

I hope the mods don't mind me starting this thread here

[[deleted user]]

From 17/08/2013

Just started this and have read the first 5 chapters. I'm already intrigued by the characters, particularly by Becky. I think Amelia might end up being one of the soft, wishy-washy female characters that let down some Victorian novels for me but I hope not. Becky seems much more interesting and feisty.

I'm also enjoying the tongue-in-cheek social commentary particularly relating to women and marriage.

Looking forward to the rest of the story

[[deleted user]]

From 26/08/2013

I'm now 20% of the way in. It's quite a slow read for me (especially as I keep picking up Enid Blyton books from my childhood to read instead) but I'm enjoying it. Becky is a very interesting character. (view spoiler)[ I'm wondering exactly what is going to come of her caring for the unwell Miss Crawley, I suspect she is hoping to get a share of the fortune somehow but I haven't got that far yet (hide spoiler)]

[Laurel]

Have read the first 10 chapters now - I'm enjoying it. Thackeray is a bit tongue in cheek at times with his descriptions of the characters and his little asides to the reader - I like it! Don't like Amelia at all, she's too boring but Becky is interesting - I'm definitely intrigued as to what will happen to her.

[Jenny]

Heather wrote: "I hope the mods don't mind me starting this thread here"

Of course not! :)

[[deleted user]]

I totally agree about Amelia. I wonder if her being boring is deliberate from Thackeray to demonstrate how money can make you more attractive even if not very interesting.

[Laurel]

Could be, the way he describes her she isn't that stunning, just good natured and from a good family. And she is there to be a contrast to Becky I think.

[Leslie]

Heather wrote: "I totally agree about Amelia. I wonder if her being boring is deliberate from Thackeray to demonstrate how money can make you more attractive even if not very interesting."

Just wait!

[Laurel]

Ok, so I'm a quarter of the way through (view spoiler)[ Becky has married Captain Crawley and Amelia is now poor and not engaged anymore although George has just turned up to see her. So the money thing is quite important - how long will Becky and Crawley last if they don't inherit any money from the aunt? Reckon the cracks will start showing pretty soon. Also George is a bit useless - he abandon's Amelia on his dad's sayso, then goes running back just cos his mate reminds him about her - do you think her and Dobbin will end up together? (they are both wet blanket's so will be a good match) (hide spoiler)]

I'm really enjoying this but keep putting it off for shorter reads - think the biggest problem with this kind of stuff is it's size!

[Bionic Jean]

I've got going on this at last and am up to chapter 6. I agree, Heather, that Becky is definitely the female to follow - I fully expect her to become the toast of society despite her origins, with her canny ways and duplicitousness! And Amelia is the perfect, pretty, demure little young lady.

And Laurel, I too love the tongue-in-cheekness of it all. The way Thackeray "discusses" with the reader whether Amelia should have been the heroine or not, or whether he should have picked someone else from her school. It's quite surreal! He makes it plain in his introduction that it is a satire, and whenever I think he's going over the top with his praise of Amelia I remind myself of this.

[Laurel]

Yeah he is definitely 'taking the mick', I like his little asides to the reader as well.

[Bionic Jean]

Look what I found! It's the title page to the first edition in book form (as the 1897-8 one was serialised in a magazine) and actually drawn by Thackeray himself!

[[deleted user]]

That's wonderful, Jean. Thanks for sharing!

I'm about 60% through now. I keep putting it down and not picking it back up for a few days because I think it's going to be difficult but as soon as I start reading again I get through 50 or so pages easily. Got 2 train journeys this weekend (4hrs each) so aiming to finish by then as want some shorter kindle books to dip in and out of for my long-haul flight next Thursday!

[Bionic Jean]

Heather - I know what you mean as I have other book group reads I want to get on with.... But I too find him surprisingly readable, like Dickens. I'll still be behind you (because of other books) but hope to join in discussions even if I'm the last one to finish!

Are you going somewhere nice?

[[deleted user]]

I'm visiting a friend in Reading this weekend then on Thursday I'm going to Hong Kong for 10days! Very excited!

[Laurel]

That book cover is cool Jean!
I keep picking it up and putting it down again as well Heather, we will get it read eventually! Hope you enjoy Hong Kong!!

[Bionic Jean]

Same here - wow - have a good time Heather :)

[LauraT]

Heather wrote: "I'm visiting a friend in Reading this weekend then on Thursday I'm going to Hong Kong for 10days! Very excited!"

Wow! My first au pair came from Honk Kong! How I'd love to see her again...

[Laurel]

Ok, I've passed the halfway point - it's my usual thing with these massive classics is that I'm very slow to read the first part then will probably have the rest finished in another day or so!

[[deleted user]]

I'm similar. 75% in and getting quite engrossed. I think Dobbin is my favourite character, he's so sweet!

[Laurel]

Yeah I wasn't keen at first but am liking him better now (he must be a grower)- have just got back from shopping so hopefully will get another big chunk read this evening!

[Laurel]

Now I'm 70% done (view spoiler)[ Becky has been presented to court but they still have no money except what they get a loans or hand-outs from people she has charmed. I still like Becky, she isn't your traditional heroine but at least she uses her brain and I really hope she ends up absolutely loaded with somebody's money!
Amelia on the other hand should just marry Dobbin put the poor bloke out of his misery, he already supports them financially anyway so it would be better for her family as well - she makes a feel a bit exasperated really cos she must know deep down George wasn't as perfect as she makes him out to be - she knew about him flirting with Becky after all (hide spoiler)]

[Laurel]

Finished now - loved it! (view spoiler)[ I'm glad Becky landed on her feet in the end - poor Jos, he was totally terrorised! I was worried for a bit that she would end up with nothing but she is too clever. Was a nice touch to have her being responsible for Amelia's change of heart towards Dobbin as well - even though he doesn't like her and there's nothing in it for her at all - definitely a redeeming feature! (hide spoiler)]

[[deleted user]]

I finished too, Laurel! Finished it Sunday night but been so bust I've not had time to post. I loved it as well

Will comment in spoilers.
(view spoiler)[ I agree with you that I'm glad Becky ended up ok. I can't help liking her as she is so clever and scheming. You forgot sometimes that she came from nothing which is impressive considering those times. I love how everybody came full circle and both Amelia and Becky experienced poverty and richness and how Amelia just ended up rich again whereas Becky had to really work at it. Ultimately they ended up in very similar positions
I think Amelia had to marry Dobbin. I don't think she loves him but she knows that in order to have as good a life as possible for her and Georgy it made more sense to marry Dobbin who as you say was providing for her. I almost felt a bit sorry for Dobbin at the end because he'd be used and abused all his life and was perhaps ready to move on but then Amelia decided that finally she wanted to marry him.
I read a review on here that felt it was implied Becky murdered Jos at the end. I have to admit I didn't pick up on that and just assumed he had been manipulated and beaten and because of his poor health Becky was able to control him and all his money. What do you think?
I also think it was clever how the character of Becky was developed. At the start she was a bit manipulative towards Amelia but she was still a good friend and worked hard as a tutor to earn her money and starting block to a place in Vanity Fair. However at the end she has completely changed and become very focussed on riches, money to the point of adultery, gambling and possibly murder. I really don't think Thackery held his character in very high regard!
(hide spoiler)]

[[deleted user]]

My non-spoiler review (also on my goodreads homepage)


I've wanted to read this book for a while and I am so glad I finally did. I really loved it! Although long, I never felt bogged down with the story and every chapter advanced the story along, something occasionally lacking in lengthy novels of this era.
My favourite character was of course Becky Sharp. I am glad I'm not friends with her but she was such a change from the usual slightly dull female Victorian heroine.
In contrast, Amelia was a stereotypical 'good girl' who rarely did anything out of the ordinary or daring. The two female protagonists were excellent contrasts to each other and I enjoyed their interaction.
I enjoyed how the book ended and thought the character development was really clever throughout. Thackeray's social commentary was entertaining, particularly when he was focussing on Becky as you could feel the Victorian disdain for a character like her coming through in his writing.
A truly excellent 5* read and a definite book for the re-read in the future pile

[Bionic Jean]

I'm only a quarter of the way through, but you're both really making me want to crack on with this!

[Leslie]

So glad that you guys liked it! I agree with most of the comments, especially regarding how you (and I) liked Becky even though she was the "bad" girl.

@Heather - (view spoiler)[I felt that Amelia did love Dobbins, but in a more sisterly way rather than a passionate love. I got quite irritated at times that she wouldn't recognize that George hadn't been that great! About Becky & Jos, I didn't pick up any intimations that she had murdered him, but like you felt it was his poor health (and his hypochondriac tendencies) which let Becky manipulate him. (hide spoiler)]

[[deleted user]]

Leslie wrote: "So glad that you guys liked it! I agree with most of the comments, especially regarding how you (and I) liked Becky even though she was the "bad" girl.

@Heather - [spoilers removed]"

@Leslie- (view spoiler)[ I agree, Amelia did love Dobbin as a brother. I can't imagine they had a very passionate marriage although they managed a daughter! It was almost like when George died all of his flaws were ignored which I suppose is something that still happens now, leading to the phrase 'Never speak ill of the dead'. I have also read somewhere that Thackery based Dobbin on himself and he had unrequited love for his friends wife but I have no idea if this is true as it was just on a random goodreads review and I can't find anything to back it up. (hide spoiler)]

[LauraT]

Leslie wrote: "So glad that you guys liked it! I agree with most of the comments, especially regarding how you (and I) liked Becky even though she was the "bad" girl.

@Heather - [spoilers removed]"

Becky is the greatest!!! I think that even if Thakerey said at the beginning that his was a novel without a hero, he was pointing to Becca as her real heroine!!!

[Laurel]

Nice review Heather! I thought Becky was absolutely great, she had no-one to look out for her so she made her own way even if she had to tread on other people toes to do it. I think if Thackeray wanted to condemn her actions he (view spoiler)[ wouldn't have given her a relatively happy ending living abroad off Jos's and her son's money! (hide spoiler)]

[Bionic Jean]

Yes I liked your review too Heather (and "liked" it!)

[Bionic Jean]

I'm listening to a dramatisation of Vanity Fair which was on the radio a few years ago. Although it's at the same time I want to read a passage first before I "hear" it, but it works for me and adds that little something. Stephen Fry is the narrator, and is very droll. The musical interludes are from a mechanical fairground carousel roundabout.

[Laurel]

Sounds good, I bet Stephen Fry does a good job with that - he is just the right kind of person for something like Vanity Fair.

[Bionic Jean]

I'm nearing the end now. Is anyone else still reading this as you've all gone very quiet!

[Leslie]

Jean wrote: "I'm nearing the end now. Is anyone else still reading this as you've all gone very quiet!"

I liked the ending - where have you got to?

[Bionic Jean]

Chapter 62 (view spoiler)[ Dobbin is back in England and Jos is looking after Amelia and her father. (hide spoiler)] I know what I hope the ending will be, although I'm not sure what will happen to Becky. Maybe she'll go to France - I think she'll fall on her feet anyway!

[Laurel]

Glad you're enjoying it Jean! I loved it too ;)

[Bionic Jean]

Hi - an alert for those in the UK. The really fabulous dramatisation of this with Stephen Fry as the acerbic narrator, is repeated starting today on Radio 4extra. Sorry for the short notice - I've only just spotted it! It's in 20 short parts daily at 2pm (quarter of an hour each I think - I've set up my timer) so missing the first wouldn't make much of a difference.

I really enjoyed this novel, but did have reservations hence the 4*. Here is my review

[[deleted user]]

I really do love your reviews, Jean. You write very well and manage to get across many of my thoughts in a much more succinct and articulate manner!

I may see if I can catch up on radio iplayer as I love Stephen Fry!

[Bionic Jean]

Aw what a lovely thing to say, Heather, thank you! Please do click the "like" tab at the bottom of any review of mine you like. I read the other day that this is what Goodreads use to "rate" their reviewers. (Vanity, vanity... but nice too! And maybe I can be excused since we're on a "Vanity Fair!" thread?)

Funnily enough I often dislike Stephen Fry - but he's perfectly cast in this. He'd probably have got on like a house on fire with Thackeray!

[[deleted user]]

I have done, Jean. I didn't know you could do that because I don't really use that side of Goodreads much, more the book lists and this group for me!

[Laurel]

'liked' your review Jean. Thanks for the heads up about the Radio 4 show

[Bionic Jean]

I've been unhiding all your spoilers now!! But will put this in spoilers just in case I'm not the last after all!
(view spoiler)[ I thought it was heavily implied that Becky murdered Jos in the end because the insurers were so suspicious, and didn't want to give Becky the money, but Thackeray said they couldn't prove anything. Also Jos had almost begged Dobbin to stay there, because Becky was "such an awful woman" (presumably he was just so weak and ill he couldn't assert himself - not to mention such a coward as we witnessed by him running away from the invasion.) So he probably had an idea that she might do for him. Becky was "looking after" him, so I assumed she'd poisoned him - but probably so slowly that she could convince everyone (and maybe herself a little bit) that she was "helping to treat" him with whatever she used. (hide spoiler)]

Oh and Heather I was fascinated to read that someone said Dobbin's character was based on Thackeray - (view spoiler)[ the unrequited love thing. I can't quite believe it, can you? Thackeray is such a cynical so-and-so and I can imagine him being rather vicious and spiteful in real life, whereas Dobbin is just a sweetie! Maybe it was how he would have LIKED to be - a bit of wish-fulfillment with the love angle too. :) (hide spoiler)]

And by the way, Laurel and Heather, thanks for indulging me with the "likes"!

[Leslie]

In case anyone is interested, BBC Radio 4X is currently airing an adaptation of Vanity Fair with Stephen Fry reading the narration. You can still listen to the first omnibus part (75 minutes) for a few more days at:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b008lywx

The second omnibus part airs on Sunday...

[Pink]

Thanks for this link, I'll check it out :)