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Book Cover Help > Please Delete Current Cover

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message 1: by Kevin (new)

Kevin O'Brien (kevin_l_obrien) | 98 comments Please delete the current cover for this ebook, so I can upload an updated image.

The artwork and typography has not been changed, I only removed the shield and character name under the title.

Thank you.


message 2: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 42000 comments Mod
Goodreads policy is to keep all published covers on the site, as users want to shelve the cover of the copy they have. Instead, we add an alternate-cover edition. See http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1... and http://www.goodreads.com/help/show/85....

However, as the author, you have the ability to change which edition of the book is the default, which will come up in searches by title and show on your author profile. Here's how: http://www.goodreads.com/help/show/31...


message 3: by Kevin (new)

Kevin O'Brien (kevin_l_obrien) | 98 comments Then why is a delete option even available?


message 4: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 42000 comments Mod
Occasionally the completely wrong cover is uploaded, like one that actually goes with a different book altogether.


message 5: by Kevin (new)

Kevin O'Brien (kevin_l_obrien) | 98 comments No, I mean why is a delete button even present on an author's edit page when author's can't use it and policy forbids librarians to use it except to correct mistakes?

And I've read the reasons given for preserving all old covers. My updated (not new or different) cover wouldn't affect those issues because the design is identical to the present cover except for the removal of one small element.

I don't see the point of creating a new "edition" for such a small and insignificant change that doesn't affect the content.


message 6: by Monique (new)

Monique (kadiya) | 1099 comments Kevin,

You wouldn't go to someone's house and replace their copy of a book with a different edition. Same thing for a lot of cataloguers here. I shelve the edition I have. If it has a shield and name on it, I want the shield and name to be on the cover here.

As for why there is a delete button showing on the author page, authors at one time could fix their own mistakes if they accidentally uploaded the wrong cover. That is no longer true, however. So, the delete button is still there but just an artifact.


message 7: by Kevin (new)

Kevin O'Brien (kevin_l_obrien) | 98 comments I'm afraid your "going to someone's house" argument is specious. The two situations are not at all similar.

If I were changing the content of my story, I could understand a desire to "shelve" each new edition, but I'm not. I made an insignificant change to my cover design; that doesn't warrant a new edition or consternation over replacing the cover on the existing edition.

Your explanation of the presence of the button may be historically true, but it doesn't explain why it still exists when it's virtually useless.


message 8: by Lobstergirl (new)

Lobstergirl Kevin wrote: "I don't see the point of creating a new "edition" for such a small and insignificant change that doesn't affect the content. "

Many users don't care which edition or cover they shelve, but many do. Users create Alternate Cover Editions all the time for covers that have or lack such small things as an Oprah sticker, a New York Times Notable Book label, a little blurb at the bottom or the top...


message 9: by Banjomike (new)

Banjomike | 5530 comments The criteria we use is, basically, we keep ALL variants of covers even those with relatively minor changes so that we don't have arguments about the size or significance of each change. If you want to know about the presence of an option in the Goodreads interface then the best place to ask such questions would be customer support.


message 10: by Kevin (new)

Kevin O'Brien (kevin_l_obrien) | 98 comments Hyperstrict adherence to the letter of a rule or policy is no substitute for common sense, and a little knowledge of publishing.

To qualify as a new edition, there must be a change in the content beyond proofing and error correction, and/or a change in the typography, layout, or artwork of the cover. Simply adding or removing a sticker, label, or blurb is insufficient to warrant a new edition.

Ultimately, whether a change warrants the issue of a new edition is up to the publisher, not the library.


message 11: by Debbie's Spurts (D.A.) (last edited Aug 28, 2013 11:14PM) (new)

Debbie's Spurts (D.A.) Doesn't matter what rules product pages on publisher and bookseller sites have. On goodreads there are no product pages, only data pages. The site TOS does allow goodreads to set policies for their database.

Common sense? Nope, it's not at all a matter of common sense. Certainly not a matter of convenience for anyone other than the author requesting. Just a matter of goodreads' experience with what standards/policies work for their vast database and the horde of potential readers using the database and expecting exactly those policies -- particularly that nothing is ever done to vandalize our bookshelves.

Actually, a new cover always qualifies as a new edition according to both the international isbn agency and the U.S. (Bowkers) isbn agency. It's odd if you have a publisher thinking they set the edition rules versus the isbn system setting. Goes against industry standards although starting to be a practice of booksellers with their own EAN numbers in place for ebooks/pod (amazon asin, Barnes and Noble bnid, etc.) to allow cover changes without creating new edition — none of which has spit to do with goodreads or what system goodreads wants to put in place.

No real library would destroy their reading condition older cover edition of your book even if gifted (versus having to buy) your newer cover edition as a replacement. No library thinks it is up to them to tell authors about editions or anything else. They just put the books in the system for patron's use. And never remove a book because there is a newer edition, newer cover, no longer in print, etc. No one was saying a library would set rules on what does or doesn't equal a new edition; just that older covers/editions were still kept in the library.

If ebooks or print on demand hardcopy books are to be given exact same treatment with exact same exposure as more traditionally published books, they do need to be in the goodreads database exactly the same.

As a reader, I would be very angry to find a book cover I had noticed or shelved changed so I agree wholeheartedly with the policy and the analogy of your breaking into my own bookshelves I spent months cataloguing exactly as wanted just because you have a new cover. Multiply me by potentially millions of readers seeing a bookcover vs. an author wanting their book to be the exception to the rule -- which do you think is easier for goodreads to deal with?

Admittedly, realistically I don't always notice minor cover changes from bookshelf thumbnails until I visit the book page and see the larger image. And, particularly when isbn system was new, there were accidental duplication of isbn numbers on new cover print runs by traditional hardcopy publishing so it's not just the newer books indie/pod/small-press/ebook editions that will have alternate covers on goodreads.

I personally suspect the goodreads powers that be have more than a little knowledge of publishing, Along with a lot of knowledge of what does and does not work for their members in terms of database policies.


message 12: by Sandra (new)

Sandra | 23186 comments Well said Debbie, I agree with all of that, especially someone thinking to vandalize my shelves.


message 13: by Banjomike (new)

Banjomike | 5530 comments Kevin wrote: "Hyperstrict adherence to the letter of a rule or policy is no substitute for common sense, and a little knowledge of publishing.

To qualify as a new edition, there must be a change in the content beyond proofing and error correction, and/or a change in the typography, layout, or artwork of the cover. Simply adding or removing a sticker, label, or blurb is insufficient to warrant a new edition.

Ultimately, whether a change warrants the issue of a new edition is up to the publisher, not the library. "


I'm not sure that how that would work on Goodreads. Allowing publishers, and/or authors, to decide what constitutes a 'new' edition would frequently result in only the current version of a book/ebook being listed on Goodreads. Many authors have a thing about only wanting the most recent version of a book cover to be visible on Goodreads. If they had their own way then there would never be more than one version of a work available. That might be OK for the author/publisher but what about the poor sods who have already paid for the book and added the relevant version to their shelves on Goodreads? Why should they have to put up with having an inappropriate or different image on 'their' book?

Publishers regularly bring out new editions where the text is unaltered but the book has a tweaked or a movie-related cover so defining a new edition as only involving a change in the content would not work for Goodreads. Similarly, how minor would a cover change need to be before we could safely ignore it? What we say is that ANY change is a new edition.

It isn't "Hyperstrict adherence". This is a site for readers and whether authors and publishers approve of it or not the rules, and common sense, say we keep different covers otherwise where do we draw the line about which covers to keep? If your cover change is so minor that it could, possibly, be exempt from that rule then why does it need changing in the first place?

Your original criticism concerned the apparently useless delete button. We librarians don't see the author dashboard but I still say that the best place to ask about presence of a 'useless' option in the Goodreads interface would be Customer Support


message 14: by Sandra (new)

Sandra | 23186 comments Basically GR is a library not a bookstore, most authors don't seem to realise that fact.


message 15: by Monique (new)

Monique (kadiya) | 1099 comments Kevin,

I would have set up an alternate cover edition for you, but the new cover does not appear to be located anywhere except for a small thumbnail on your website. The Smashwords edition shows the current cover, with shield and name.


message 16: by Kevin (new)

Kevin O'Brien (kevin_l_obrien) | 98 comments Please do not create an alternative edition of my book. I did not request that; had I wanted an alternative edition I would have created one.

I would appreciate it if the Librarians would not make unilateral decisions on my behalf without first consulting me. I do not give anyone here permission to make such decisions and take action based on them without my knowledge or consent.


message 17: by Monique (new)

Monique (kadiya) | 1099 comments Kevin,

Anyone who is a member of Goodreads, whether they are a Librarian or not, can add a book. If someone (other than me) bought your book with your updated cover, they could add that book at any time.

This is a book cataloging and discussion site.


message 18: by Kevin (new)

Kevin O'Brien (kevin_l_obrien) | 98 comments I find that when the other members of an online discussion begin to misrepresent what I have said, to question my knowledge and motives, and to use irrational, emotion-laden arguments, it is impossible to continue. People are no longer responding to what I actually write, but to what they want to believe I really mean.

In addition, it is the height of absurdity to think in terms of "vandalizing" an electronic "bookshelf", or to get upset over a very minor change in a cover that is meaningless to anyone other than the author.

However, this factual error must be addressed:

"Actually, a new cover always qualifies as a new edition according to both the international isbn agency and the U.S. (Bowkers) isbn agency."

The term "new cover" is left undefined; in logic, this is known as the fallacy of equivocation. The implication is that any change to the cover, no matter how trivial, demands a new edition according to the ISBN agencies.

This is false.

The criteria used by these agencies are the same ones I mentioned earlier: a change in the typography, layout, or artwork. Not included is the mere addition or deletion of a sticker, label, or blurb.


message 19: by Kevin (new)

Kevin O'Brien (kevin_l_obrien) | 98 comments Monique wrote: "Kevin,

Anyone who is a member of Goodreads, whether they are a Librarian or not, can add a book."


They can add a book that is already published; they cannot create a new book that is not published without the author's permission. That is a violation of copyright law.


message 20: by Kevin (new)

Kevin O'Brien (kevin_l_obrien) | 98 comments Banjomike wrote: "If your cover change is so minor that it could, possibly, be exempt from that rule then why does it need changing in the first place?"

I could just as easily turn the question back on you, and ask why, if the change is so minor, create such a huge brouhaha over a simple exchange of cover images?

The issue is not the degree of change. The issue is whether the change is significant enough to warrant a new edition. Decades of publishing practice (not, as one claimed, "what rules product pages on publisher and bookseller sites have") say no. The ISBN agencies say no.

Why does GoodReads demand otherwise? "Vandalizing" electronic bookshelves.

Please.


message 21: by Monique (new)

Monique (kadiya) | 1099 comments Kevin wrote: "Monique wrote: "Kevin,

Anyone who is a member of Goodreads, whether they are a Librarian or not, can add a book."

They can add a book that is already published; they cannot create a new book that..."


Kevin,

That is incorrect. There are many books listed, added by members not authors, that have a publication date in the future.

As for the original question: the answer is, after a book has been published, any change to the cover warrants an alternate cover edition.

That edition can be created by any member of Goodreads as soon as that cover is released.


message 22: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (last edited Aug 29, 2013 08:28PM) (new)

rivka | 42000 comments Mod
Goodreads policies on covers are quite clear, and can be reviewed here: http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...

Anyone wishing additional clarification may wish to use the Contact Us link on the Help page.

This thread has ceased to be productive, so I am closing it.


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