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Don Quixote
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Don Quixote-unabridged schedule in message 28
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LOL Nathalia.
Merriam Webster:
quixotic: adjective \kwik-ˈsä-tik\
foolishly impractical especially in the pursuit of ideals; especially : marked by rash lofty romantic ideas or extravagantly chivalrous action
Origin: Don Quixote
First Known Use: 1718
I wonder if any other words originated from this novel.
I also wonder now about the pronunciation change, since they say Don Quixote is pronounced dän-kē-ˈ(h)ō-tē
so it is kē-ˈ(h)ō-tē versus kwik-ˈsä-tik ???
In the beginning,I thought Sancho was just along for the ride. But, as we progress, he seems to be slowly buying into the fantasy. I am thinking of the sceen where he kneels before DQ asking for his little kingdom, even if it be ever so small and DQ has to tell him that the adventures they are currently having, their current battles are not for kingdoms. I think it was just before they meet the goat heards.
I'm a bit behind but I'm really enjoying this book. The "battle" with the Basque and his pillow had me laughing so hard.
There's quite a change of perspective from Part 1 to Part 2.
Part 1 is a telling of Don Quixote's tale as it occurs, while Part 2 at least starts out being a history, told in memory.
I like Sancho. At this point, I think he's in it for his & his family's future prospects. This is his chance to move up the social ladder and become something more than a farmer. I think he's going along with the craziness of Quixote to get his rewards.
Petra said: "I like Sancho. At this point, I think he's in it for his & his family's future prospects. This is his chance to move up the social ladder and become something more than a farmer. I think he's going along with the craziness of Quixote to get his rewards."By now I think so too. There was an emphasis on him being uneducated and unable to read, and never having heard the stories of knights errants before. I also think he is slowly realising that those rules and the errantry itself might not be what Quixote tells him they are. Maybe it's like people telling you of this great money-making/island winning scheme and you have no idea how it works, so you do whatever they tell you.
That pillow as a shield episode was a hoot.
Irene wrote: "OK, now I am at the start of Part III. More than the death of that shepard, I thought the speech of the shepardess was significant. Those chivalric stories seemed to be filled with people languishing over unrequited love. I loved how stupid she made that idea sound...."
I'm caught up now, too, and I agree with Irene.
The shepherd died from unrequited love and Marcela was branded the murderer....because the man didn't get what he wanted. It was very one-sided of all the men at the funeral to think this.
Marcela's speech was one of independence and awareness of self. By stating that she (and others) have a choice and a will, she's also stating that men have a choice and a will (in this case, to live or die).
Grisóstomo may have died from some illness, for all we know, but the beauty of a maiden is blamed and this seemed reasonable to the shepherds. Huh!
Our local playhouse is performing Spamolot right now. So, in honor of our thread, I went to see it last night. It was so well performed, especially considering that this is not a professional group and that Erie is a small community. I laughed so hard and thought of Don Q throughout the night.
Irene wrote: "Our local playhouse is performing Spamolot right now. So, in honor of our thread, I went to see it last night. It was so well performed, especially considering that this is not a professional gro..."Been wanting to see that! Glad you enjoyed the show. Has anyone seen the musical Man of La Mancha? I think that was based on Don Quixote.
Yes, it was. I saw a college version of it many years ago.
I loved the part about the potion. Poor Sancho!It seems that as the two have more misadventures, Sancho is becoming disillusioned while Don Quixote is becoming more delusional.
Some quotes that I found interesting:
1. Sancho (talking about looking for adventure): "Maybe you go looking for one thing and find another."
Maybe this is the theme of the book? Don Quixote is looking for the adventurous life of a Knight Errant; Sancho is looking for a step up for his family. What will they find instead??
2. Don Quixote (after being beaten while saving Sancho): "I should not have raised my sword against men who were not dubbed knight like myself; and therefore I believe that as a punishment for having trespassed against the laws of chivalry, the god of battles has allowed me to be injured in this way."
Huh......by helping someone "below" your station, you will be punished????!! That's a high-fallooting idea that enforces different stations in life.
3. Don Quixote (talking about his fighting ability): "I am worth a hundred."
A bit confident in his abilities, n'est pas??? :D
Poor Sancho, he has to keep getting up and caring for DQ even though he is as badly hurt. DQ is seeming pretty selfish in these stories. Broken ribs and all, Sancho has to pull DQ onto the donkey and lead the two animals to the inn after their fight with the shepherds. After the potion, Sancho is totally wiped out because it took longer to work on him. But DQ has had time to sleep off the experience and is rested and forces SP to get up and travel. There is more barfing in this section than in the lunchroom talk of the average group of fourth grade boys.
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Sheila wrote: "Why is he sticking around? ..."
That is a good question.
I wonder if he's still thinking of raising his family's status in the world. After all the abuse, I would think that even that lofty goal would become too dear.
Maybe he's protecting Don Quixote? I mean, without Sancho, DQ would be in a very vulnerable, dangerous situation.
Or maybe our author needs him to much. After all, without SP's comments and reality check, DQ would move from comic to weird or absurd. I think SP is the straight man to DQ's loonacy.
Good point, Irene. Sancho is a reality check for DQ. (DQ is a Canadian ice cream shop: Dairy Queen, so now I have ice cream on the mind. :D)
Dairy Queen (DQ) is also in the US.
Yummm..... so we're all thinking ice cream?? :D
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Banana split blizzard (do they still have these?)....Blizzards are the best.....then there is the Buster Bar....
I love DQ. There's one within walking distance of my house :)
I'm going away for a few days and won't have internet access. Here's a couple of images that I hope will amuse/inspire until I get back:
http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.461963... (I've always liked this painting by Picasso)
http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.469824...
http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.463771...
See you all in a few days!
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An editorial in my Sunday paper today labeled a person as "......of La Mancha" talked of them "charging windmills" and compared them to "crusading Don Quixotes", and I had to smile because I now understood what they were talking about. :-)
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I was wondering about that too. Maybe it was really the humour of the times. Or it was a mirrored scene of the great chivalry novels, where the other people would get beat up by the knight at the end of every adventure.
Just an FYI - I'm leaving for the Frankfurt Book Fair and will be offline for a little over two weeks. I'll keep up with the reading and try to log in if I get a chance, but I expect to be pretty busy.
It reminds me of the Looney Toon cartoons where the clueless good characters are always being blown up or dropped off cliffs by the much smarter and funnier bad characters. But, just like in those cartoons, the good characters bounce up again without ever learning.
Amy, have a great time! Sounds like a really fun time. I'm back from my family visit. Had a good time but didn't get a lot of reading done. I'm a bit behind the schedule but will catch up this week.
How are you all doing with the schedule?
Sheila, they are getting beat up a lot. I rather hope it stops soon because it'll get tiring to read if all adventures end with a whopping.
Irene, that's a good analogy.
I am a binge reader, so last week I was far behind, this week I am ahead. What do you all think about Cardenio and his story? I wonder whether his sudden fits of madness were caused by malnutrition? I also thought the care the shepherds took to feed him was heartwarming...
I also find this text by far more accessible than Shakespeare, who wrote at the same time. Maybe because it's in prose, maybe because it is a good translation. How do you feel?
I found this picture of the Sierra Morena, which I found helpful in imagining the situation around them: http://www.richardchewphotography.com...
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Then, they arrive at an inn, where Cardenio then starts to read from a book "The Man Who Was Recklessly Curious". A large portion of the book is now taken up with this story within the story. Why is the complete narration, this oral reading, of "The Man Who Was Recklessly Curious" being included? Thoughts? Ideas?
I'm just at the part where Cardenio is starting to tell his story. Your next statement (and the first line of the chapter I'm on) reminded me that The Second Part of the Ingenious Gentleman is a history of what happened. I keep forgetting that.
In the First Part, we were with Don Quixote. In this Second Part, we are being told what someone (anyone remember his name or what it mentioned?) is telling us what the history says.
That difference of perspective may change how we see (or are told) the story. The history could be told by an unreliable narrator.
Why change perspective in the story?
....lots of questions. Sheila, I'll try to comment on yours when I catch up.
I don't know why he is is injecting those side-stories into the main story, but I must say, that I like it. The running about and getting beaten up was getting a bit tedious. Maybe it is also some form of realism, since when we travel other peoples stories do often interfere with our storyline. Next time some stranger on the plane insists on telling me his story I will tell him not to interfere with my storyline... (I read too much obviously.)
I also liked the introduction of Luscinda, Camilla and Dorotea as rather strong and witty female characters and I loved that Luscinda refused to play Juliet. I generally enjoy the way female characters are portrayed, which always has the crazy side of Don Quixote, where women are frail creatures in need of protection and the more realistic side in the side-stories. And of course in Sancho Panzas portrayal of Dulcinea, which I thought hilarious.
Don't give up on me. I'm catching up and will be by the time our next section starts on the 15th. At that point, I hope to keep up with the schedule.
Nathalia wrote: "I also liked the introduction of Luscinda, Camilla and Dorotea as rather strong and witty female characters and I loved that Luscinda refused to play Juliet. I generally enjoy the way female chara..."I also loved SP's description of Dulcinea. I actually like the woman he describes far more than the woman DQ describes. Who wants to be a wilting violet when you can be a strong, independent woman?
Sheila wrote: "Okay, in this week's reading we learn the story of Cardenio. What are everyone's thoughts on him? This story seemed out of place to me, a diversion from the story we have been given so far.Then, they arrive at an inn, where Cardenio then starts to read from a book "The Man Who Was Recklessly Curious". A large portion of the book is now taken up with this story within the story. Why is the complete narration, this oral reading, of "The Man Who Was Recklessly Curious" being included? Thoughts? Ideas?
..."
There are a lot of stories and characters to follow.
It's hard to find a connection between them except for elements of lunacy, deception, mistrust.
It seems to boil down to "you don't know what you have until you lose it". All of these stories (DQ, Sancho, Cardenio and Anselmo) are of men who had a good, honest, peaceful life. They all gave this up for a life filled with pain, lunacy, lies and deception:
DQ for a chivalric life that has no bearing on real life.
Sancho for the chance to raise his family's status in life.
Cardenio also for the chance of riches and advancement (he forewent sending his father to ask for Lucinda's hand until he knew what the Duke would bestow on him).
Anselmo (the most foolish of them all) gave up a life-time of happiness, contentment and peace for a test.
All of their stories have a ripple effect that brings pain and disaster to those closest to them. Well, perhaps not Sancho's family; we don't know yet how his leaving them has affected them.
I'm still wondering whether this telling DQ's story from a history book is significant. In the first few chapters, DQ's story was being told first hand, whereas now it isn't; we're once removed from the happenings. This brings an unreliability into the story.
Of course, the whole story is unreliable with all the lies, deceptions and fantasies, so who knows what's significant at this point. :D
Irene wrote: "I also loved SP's description of Dulcinea. I actually like the woman he describes far more than the woman DQ describes. Who wants to be a wilting violet when you can be a strong, independent woman? ..."
However, Sancho's description of Dulcinea was a pack of lies. He's never set eyes on her.
DQ's version, although not a real one as he's never spoken to her, isn't a lie so much as a fantasy.
It's all smoke & mirrors to us right now. We still don't know her or her thoughts & ways. In reality, she may be either a wilting violet or a strong, independent woman.....or neither, maybe something different all together.
SP does not appear to have a loving marriage consistent with modern definitions. When he is talking about the possibility of DQ becoming an archbishop or empiror, he is concerned that, if made an archbishop, SP couldn't receive his conpensation since he is married. Then he goes on to think that maybe his wife might conveniently die by then.
That occurred to me, too, Irene, at that spot in the book. It could be that he was just miffed at the moment because of all the hardships he's going through for this compensation and the thought of losing it made him mad/insane for a moment. There's a fair amount of madness in this book: Don Quixote, Cardenio, for example. Maybe Sancho has his mad moments?
Did anyone else think the tale of the captive was long, long, long? It seemed to go on and on without saying anything.
The inn seems to be central in this book. No matter where DQ's adventures take him, he winds up back at this inn. Any thoughts on that? Or is it a way for Cervantes to keep the character list under control?
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They do always seem to end up back at that inn though, don't they. I have no idea why. LOL
I found this interesting idea of the theme of quixotism in DQ. I bolded some statements that I thought interesting in regards to what Cervantes may be getting at about DQ (the man/knight):"Quixotism is the universal quality characteristic of any visionary action. Acts of reform are always quixotic, for the reformer aims at undermining the existing institution in order to change it. Often held up to ridicule, frequently destroyed, the quixotic individual has been responsible for many great deeds in history and, conversely, for many misdeeds, even as Cervantes shows Don Quixote being responsible for the sufferings of poor Andrew.
Many outstanding madmen in the world, trying to move lethargic populations to better themselves, have been isolated in history. Ignatius de Loyola, founder of the Jesuits, has a career as fanatic and visionary as the mission of Don Quixote. St. Teresa, Joan of Arc, Martin Luther, Moses, and, above all, Jesus of Nazareth have lived and suffered and conquered by their quixotic visions. Against all the imposing odds of majority feeling strength of established institutions, belief in existing customs the quixotic heroes have pitted only the integrity of their faith and their will power.
Seeking only "truth" or "justice," the truly quixotic heroes have an internal vision so strong as to see through the illusion of external appearances. Don Quixote, for example, defies ubiquitous institutions so taken for granted that everyone thinks they are harmless windmills, though they may be threatening giants, inexorable machines destructive of the individual.
Quixotism, then, is a will power defying materiality. It is the attempt to make a utopian vision a reality, but like all utopias, it is unacceptable in a world where absolute values cannot survive.
In expressing and developing the quixotic individual, Cervantes has discovered and defined another avenue of exaltation and self-expression of the human soul. Thus it does not matter whether Don Quixote is a burlesque of chivalry, or whether the hero is a madman or an actor. What matters is that he is indelibly set free in our imaginations and discovers for us a new quality about the human spirit."
So.....with this analysis in mind, does DQ see reality that we cannot see because we are "feeling the strength of established institutions"? Is he the sane one who sees the need for reform?
Is he allowing us to "discover a new quality about the human spirir"?
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Is he allowing us to "discover a new quality about the human spirit"? ."
I think DQ is nuts...insane...crazy. I don't think he is seeing any "reality". I think he is delusional and totally off his rocker. LOL
I think I agree, Sheila. I haven't seen anything in DQ except craziness and insanity.....except for his speech about war (which went on and on and on). Then there's this from above:
"the attempt to make a utopian vision a reality, but like all utopias, it is unacceptable in a world where absolute values cannot survive."
How utopian is Utopia if it can't survive in this world? Is Cervantes saying that we will never reach Utopia? Was Eden a world of "absolute values"? Would we want to live there if DQ's being is the sort of "exaltation and self-expression of the human soul" we'd have to deal with?
I'm not sure if I buy into this analysis. Perhaps we'll see more as we read along but at this point, yes, Don Quixote is cray-cray!
I love the perspective of the interpretation, but I am not sure if that is what Cervantes wanted to say. But then I have always doubted interpretations when we had to do them at school... especially since the interpretations came only centuries later and a lot of terms were drawn from the book (Fighting against windmills, quixotic etc.) that found a reinterpretation from crazy to idealistic as terms often do. Plus only time tells whether someone is crazy or a hero, DQ is propably both. He wants to live in a world full of knights that defend the poor and downtrodden, treat all women as ladies and where people offer each other shelter for free. Hell, I want to live in a world like that. But am I crazy enough to go out there and live it? No.
I remember how DQ says something along the lines that it does not matter how it does not matter whether a woman is a real lady to the world or not, she still deserves to be shown the same reverence as a lady and then Sancho is ashamed. That sounded pretty idealistic to me and as if he saw something others did not.
I don't think DQ is idealistic. I think he is deluded. I don't think he sees some greater reality; I think he refuses to recognize reality, preferring his story book fantacies. I am a bit behind, only on chapter 35. But, I am thinking of his freeing the prisoners on their way to the galleys. We can debate the social good or ill of the judicial system in Spain at this time, whether or not galley service is a just punishment or even if the crimes committed by these men deserved imprisonment. But, this book does not explore any of those issues. It will take a much later time, a Hugo or Dickens to raise such social issues. Instead, DQ is just shown orchestrating a prison break. These were partly violent men. This was no eutopian vision; just some self-constructed job description based on the reading of fiction. I don't see any difference between what DQ is doing and the little girl who role plays a Disney princess. The only difference is that the child knows where play ends and DQ does not.
Nathalia wrote: "He wants to live in a world full of knights that defend the poor and downtrodden, treat all women as ladies and where people offer each other shelter for free. Hell, I want to live in a world like that. But am I crazy enough to go out there and live it? No...."Nathalia, your point above may say the same as this part of the analysis: "Quixotism, then, is a will power defying materiality. It is the attempt to make a utopian vision a reality, but like all utopias, it is unacceptable in a world where absolute values cannot survive."
DQ wants to live in the world of knights and has the will power (quixotism) to make it so. He actually visualizes a world where knights and giants are the reality. If the last bit of the analysis also applies, it doesn't bode well for DQ as he won't be able to sustain that vision.
Huh.....that helps me understand the mind of DQ a tiny, tiny bit. He's crazy, yes, but maybe there's also another side to that madness?
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And the Mountains Echoed (other topics)Don Quixote (other topics)
Yes, I am sure we have a lot of those myths around as well, and if we were to take them as literal, we would appear equally crazy.
I especially laughed when Don Quixote says he has no money on him and barely ever eats, because knights never eat except at feasts in their honour. I thought about how in today’s stories heroines never wash their clothes, always have fabulous clothes and apartments and never work all day... I once read an article about young women flocking to New York, because of Sex and the City and then being bitterly disappointed at what little they could afford. Gives a whole new meaning to the word "quixotic".