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Epilogues and prologues: like or dislike?
I'm with you on this David. I also intensely dislike footnotes
Can't say I've come across footnotes in fiction, but I certainly wouldn't read them if I did.
There are a few, Terry Pratchett's Wyrd Sisters was one that drove me up the wall (asterisks agogo)
Depends. Sometimes a prologue is a snippet from latter on in the book which gives you a little view into what will happen later. Sir Terry Pratchett does some excellently funny footnotes. I have all the time in the world for those. I don't like those which could easily be expressed in parenthesis. They become an affectation then.
Just when I was feeling inclined to give Pratchet a go, as there are so many fans on here. I'll give that one a miss then.Unfortunately, as I like fantasy, that seems to be the worst genre for prologues. I forget the title of one I picked up in the library, but it had a real interesting premise. The prologue, though, was around 30 pages long, about how this world used to be, with this character and that character who did this and that. I hadn't a clue who they were, didn't care, and put the book back after reading two pages.
I now go straight to chapter one, and ignore the prologue altogether.
I just hate being distracted from the flow of the narrative!
I dont mind prologues as a rule. The ones I've read are mostly snippets from the far past and always add a bit of background to the story.I read a lot fantasy too David and I agree they seem to be the worst for it although recently I read a book which had a prologue as the story of how the parents got together and then we met the child. To be honest if you didn't read it, it wouldn't of mattered but I felt more attached to the main character because of it.
epilogues now are a different story. i sometimes want to know the life story of a character and find out how they lived out the rest of their life after the novel but for some reason even then i find the epilogues to be unsatisfying at best.
Ha! I love ( and write) them all!Footnotes as humorous asides, prologues and epilogues, YES! YES!
But in self defence the only prologue I've written was 4 lines long, and the epilogues are no more than half a page...
For me,a good story leaves you wanting more, and when it comes to a finish, my own imagination takes it forward. Same with films.
I could get over a 4 line prologue, Will. Sounds more like a catch line or sub-heading.
I don't mind prologues if they add to the story but it has to be something that wouldn't really have fitted in anywhere else in the story but you can still enjoy the story having skipped it. Epilogues I only like if I really enjoyed the book and they are not essential to the story (if it's essential it should be in the story) so it's more of a background thing rather than the 20 years later shite JK Rowling did (although I'd probably complain if she hadn't done it, it was the Albus Severus that ruined it for me, too cheesy)Basically, in my opinion they should be like bonus features so you can read them or leave them out as you please.
Sometimes I think it depends on the story, personally I love to know how it all ended in an epilogue! My favourite epilogue so far goes to Cassie Clare's Clockwork Princess which was simply amazing!!!
I also loved the epilogue to Harry Potter which I nearly forgot to put in, I thought it ended the series perfectly but I would have loved to have known what jobs they all took as adults.
However I also agree that sometimes they can leave you a little disappointed, I loved the Twilight Saga however Stephanie Meyers Breaking Dawn springs to mind :( not the best when it comes to the happily ever after which I found a little too predictable.
I still feel a story is better with them, as for the prologue I think if you are retelling a story from the past and bringing the reader to the present in chapter 1 then again I don't mind them.
Jud (Disney Diva) wrote: "I don't mind prologues if they add to the story but it has to be something that wouldn't really have fitted in anywhere else in the story but you can still enjoy the story having skipped it. Epilo..."JKR did an epilogue?
Well it was 20 years later rather than an epilogue but same difference in my opinion
or 10 years later... whatever it was. The final chapter
I treated that as an epilogue. And I do agree the using of Severus as a name was just too cheesy. And out of character.
Yup, that was an epilogue and it was awful. Epilogues are always awful, IMHO. They are the author saying "I wash my hands of these characters", and kill of any chance of more stories. The book should end when the story ends. Maybe I'll imagine that harry marries thingie and they have 2.4 kids, but I don't want to be told it.Prologues are just sloppy storytelling IMHO.
And Pratchett writes the best damn footnotes(*) on the disc.
* Yup.
I don't mind either, but dislike footnotes, not read a book with one for a while
sarcasm was lost on you guys there.you do remember i'm a huge slasher in the HP fandom? why would i even accept that epilogue?
As an author, I love epilogues. Prologues, not so much.I'd never use an epilogue to kill off a character, though. Rather, to briefly re-set the stage, and possibly set it up for a sequel.
JKR didn't give you much choice, did she?
Rosemary wrote: "*nope"*Yep. No argument will succeed.
Paul wrote: "As an author, I love epilogues. Prologues, not so much.I'd never use an epilogue to kill off a character, though. Rather, to briefly re-set the stage, and possibly set it up for a sequel."
But that just makes it a variant of the much-detested sample first chapter, which is a whole category of crime in its own right.
I agree with Tim here. Nothing worse than an epilogue setting the scene for a next book. It really is like a sample chapter.
It worked for Jim Butcher, though, in the Dresden Files.
Tim wrote:"But that just makes it a variant of the much-detested sample first chapter, which is a whole category of crime in its own right ."Not necessarily. A first chapter, at least in my mind, is a completely different kind of writing than an epilogue. Chapters - including first chapters - should have a narrative arc with a beginning, middle, and end (which, in my case, is often a cliff-hanger). An epilogue is a much more settling of the dust, with pointers to where the next novel might be going. Not a real narrative arc in its own right.
Looking at what I've written I've never written a prologue. When I've been doing the Excellent Prismatic Spray as editor I've put in lots of footnotes (because Jack Vance wasn't too proud to, nor am I :-) but they're mainly to allow the editor to rail at the writers or insult the universe in general.It's also a magazine format
For epilogues, I've not formally done an epilogue, but in my first book there are 400 words that lead into the second book, then the book finishes with a further 300 words which does 'end' the tale, but only rounds off the story for someone who has been dead during the course of the book anyway :-)
The other books are all free-standing so I've never had to use a bridge.
I tend to appreciate epilogues more than prologues. Sometimes the prologues are so unrelated, it feels like I wasted my time reading it. I remember reading one prologue with 18 characters and every single one of them died at the end. I was like, really. And now you want me to start anew with more characters. I didn't finish the main book either, as the prologue really put me off. Done well, however a prologue is worth the read. However, I find they're not always done well. Epilogues tend to add more closure and give the book additional information I appreciate if I've made it all the way to the close of the book.
I find I've written a prologue and an epilogue for each book of The FRUGALITY Trilogy without really meaning to. Oh well. It's done now!
I don't mind prologues or epilogues as long as they're short and absolutely necessary. I've only incorporated a couple into my own works.
David wrote: "I just wondered if anyone else shared my dislike of epilogues and prologues.There may be good ones out there, but I haven’t come across any myself, as yet.
To me a prologue just seems to be laz..."
Oooh dear. You're gonna love The Third Rule then :(
I rarely come across footnotes but when I do I tend to read them. As for prologues and epilogues, I prefer prologues, as long as it is short and sweet ( a few pages, nothing heavy). Epilogues tend to annoy me more, as I'd like the story to just end completely on the final page and to leave it to the reader to imagine what happens to the characters in the future.
I rarely come across footnotes but when I do I tend to read them. As for prologues and epilogues, I prefer prologues, as long as it is short and sweet ( a few pages, nothing heavy). Epilogues tend to annoy me more, as I'd like the story to just end completely on the final page and to leave it to the reader to imagine what happens to the characters in the future.
Am I right, but comments people have made seem to indicate that footnotes seem to work better on paper than on Kindle
As long as they serve a valid purpose, I don't mind prologues and epilogues, but all too often they seem to be used because the author doesn't know how to start or finish the story.
Footnotes work best on paper, Jim: but they do work on Kindle - there's asomething you press and you jump to the note and back to the text, I'm told.Ignite could tell you.
Andrew wrote: "David wrote: "I just wondered if anyone else shared my dislike of epilogues and prologues.There may be good ones out there, but I haven’t come across any myself, as yet.
Oooh dear. You're gonna love The Third Rule then :(
I did say, as yet. Seems they're not all bad, and maybe it's just because I read a lot of fantasy, where they've read almost as an abridged version of a prequel. I'd sooner just dive into the story, is all, rather than have the basis for it explained, even if it takes a while for the narrative to make sense. I like that sense of realisation, say halfway through a book, when I realise something is done a certain way because, which only comes about via clever exposition.
I loved all the faux historical details contained in the footnotes of Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell. Most of them were superfluous to the main storyline, yet added to the general atmosphere immensely. As for prologues and epilogues: I stand guilty in using them. I agree that they can be overused, but I felt that I had to as I'd written the main body of my book in a limited third person style, but wanted to bookend it with scenes away from the main character. The only way I could see that I could do that is by using both a dreaded prologue and epilogue.
One thing I'm wondering. When you have a second book in the same setting you often need to pass on some information which readers of the first book would have. Information about the background rather than the plot.I'm wondering whether to have a short 'information dump' at the end so people can ignore it, refer to it if they want, but most importantly it doesn't take up any of the 'look inside' part of the kindle version
Jim i'm a prolific series reader and that is about the worst thing you can do. it just shows lazy writing. There are two options that ive seen used in a case like this.1. if you are like most authors, they simply expect you to know it from the first book and read it in order and if you don't then its your own damn fault for not reading the first book frankly
2. wove it into your text expertly. a few people tend to not re-cap but throw in gentle reminders in expert ways throughout the text. maybe its a new character asking a question and the others sharing an injoke about the reaction of another character before or something even a bit more subtle. the problem is that if people read all your books in a series they aren't gonna want to hear the same damn description many many times. this is one of the worst things a serial author can do IMHO.
I'm trying to do the latter, Elle. It's a very fine line to tread, not wanting to go over too much detail but referring back to previous events to emphasise what was important in terms of plot and character development without coming across as being patronising. JK Rowling for the most part managed to achieve it, but I must confess to being a bit fed up about hearing how Harry was a wizard at a wizarding school etc etc in the first three books or so.
My Lady Quill Chronicle books always start with a prologue and end with an epilogue. They are a letter from the character telling the story (Lady Quill) to the reader. I wanted to give the reader the feeling that they were being told a very old and forgotten legend and get them in the mood for the story.It's also been fun to have readers trying to guess which of the characters in the stories Lady Quill is!!!
Hi ElleThanks for the comment, it's been taken on board.
I have tried to do two, worked stuff in again, and I'd like to have the Chutzpah to do the first and just assume that it's their fault if they don't know.
It's just that whilst I don't like info dumps myself and who wants to read them with every book, I'd be worried that the readers might get a bit feed up of yet another explanation about why no one but an idiot connects one computer to another :-(
Elle wrote: "Jim i'm a prolific series reader and that is about the worst thing you can do. it just shows lazy writing. There are two options that ive seen used in a case like this.1. if you are like most aut..."
I agree with Elle's second option. Let the characters reveal the exposition in piece meal fashion. I think most readers have the intelligence to realise that if something doesn't make sense it will do at some point in the story. Brandon Sanderson's Mistborn: The Final Empire is a perfect example. In the 2nd book, The Well of Ascension, there is no epilogue at all, but through the narrative and dialogue we learn gradually what happened in book one, plus gain an understanding of how the mistborn get their power. Because this info is fed gradually throughout the story,the reader doesn't switch off.
I think an epilogue or prologue is good if it is used correctly. Yes a lot of people probably use it as a cop out but that's bad use of them not a rule. Crime novelists quite often start with a prologue where the villain in the story attacks a victim. I like that cause it sets the mood for the book and shows what's to come but it wouldn't have the Same impact if it was just slotted in to the story and its not really first chapter material cause the main character isn't being introduced.
I think you are all being very hard on prologues and epilogues.
Here, I was nice to prologues! I like prologues generally. I think a good one can set the scene.Epilogues just take the mystery from a book sometimes or they are useless but there are good ones.
(JKR made me very bitter over epilogues in general, I have to admit)
I'm happy to admit there may be good prologues, I just haven't encountered one yet where the information wouldn't have been better had it been threaded into the story. The Crime one that Jud highlighted, sounds a necessary inclusion. Epilogues, however...
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There may be good ones out there, but I haven’t come across any myself, as yet.
To me a prologue just seems to be lazy writing, and can even put me off reading a book. I much prefer any necessary back story to be filtered into the body of the book.
All epilogues I’ve read have been a waste of time and add nothing to the story at all. If the story has ended, then it’s ended. One book I read recently, went on to tell in a very brief manner, what the characters did with the rest of their lives: X married Y; Z went to university. It was a real anti-climax, and prompted me to post this.