Christian Theological/Philosophical Book Club discussion

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The Forum - Debate Religion > Is Satan an important part of Christianity?

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message 101: by Robert (new)

Robert Core | 1864 comments Rod - let's turn that around. How is Satan benefitted by an old earth viewpoint? Nowhere in the Bible does it say the earth is 6000 years old. That's just arrived at by counting generations which is a funky way to arrive at any truth. If I thought I was dancing with Satan, believe me I'd reconsider, but the scientific atheists here just disbelieve God as a nuisance who gets in the way of their formulas, not as a spiritual entity per se.


message 102: by Rod (last edited Sep 02, 2013 04:34PM) (new)

Rod Horncastle Good turn around. Very cool!

The problem is Old Earth understandings begin stripping away the Bible in many people's minds. It's very simple - It removes sin and death.

You back up the 6 days of creation. Then you have to smudge the creation of man. Then you must twist and re-figure the beginning of sin and separation from God. Then we no-longer really need a savior if sin isn't really sin. And God's creation is no-longer officially good...not even for 6 days.
And last of all: the Bible cannot be trusted to be clear and accurate.

The biggest problem is sin and a savior. Are they really necessary?

I wish it was as simple as 6000 or 6 million not really being important. God could have easily just left this bit out of the Bible. But it's there for a reason.
Show me a liberal who believes in a 6 day Creation?! I do enjoy siding against them. :D


message 103: by Lee (last edited Sep 02, 2013 04:36PM) (new)

Lee Harmon (DubiousDisciple) | 2112 comments Why would any liberal Christian ever believe in a literal 6-day creation?


message 104: by Rod (new)

Rod Horncastle I say NO. What do you think Lee?


message 105: by Lee (last edited Sep 02, 2013 04:54PM) (new)

Lee Harmon (DubiousDisciple) | 2112 comments I cannot think of a single reason outside the Bible to believe in a young earth, or a 6-day creation, and a liberal Christian by definition does not consider the Bible infallible. So, no, you will never find a liberal Christian who believes like you do.


message 106: by Rod (new)

Rod Horncastle Awesome. Thanks Lee! I'm well assured in my beliefs.

I can probably find a hundred reasons outside of the bible for a young earth.
One of my favorites is population.


message 107: by David (new)

David Clemons | 119 comments Well, it's too bad people make such a big issue out the age of the earth and universe considering it doesn't matter for salvation. I think if Satan is anywhere in science it is in giving people the belief that you can't believe in both. It amazes me the amount of people that say they are not Christian because the Bible has been scientifically proven wrong.


message 108: by Robert (new)

Robert Core | 1864 comments David - it WAS the atheist scientist's dream that the Bible be scientifically proven wrong, but a funny thing happened on the way to the Big Bang and the discovery of the intricacies of cellular structure - more and more scientists are moving toward the possibility of some supernatural influence at work. Of course, they're not quite far along enough to call him God.


message 109: by David (new)

David Clemons | 119 comments I'm sure it was, Robert, which was a stupid goal to begin with. You can't disprove the truth unless your being deceptive.


message 110: by Christopher (last edited Sep 03, 2013 07:06AM) (new)

Christopher | 115 comments Robert, earlier I said the devil is content to let conservatives believe the Bible because they don't obey it. Would you please do me the courtesy of proving me wrong! (Phil my friend, I'm afraid I have to include you in this one as well.)

Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man. Col.4:6 KJV


message 111: by Robert (new)

Robert Core | 1864 comments Christopher - your remark has currency because there's an operative gradient in effect. Neither liberals nor conservatives obey the Bible COMPLETELY. That is beyond any mortal. Liberals, as you have correctly stated, don't believe the Bible, so the only way they can obey it is by accident. Curiously, the Lord seems to ensure those accidents rarely happen. I think conservatives attempt to obey the Bible, but their own culture is against them. Especially in corporate America, where a lot of conservatives reside, greed is king. A certain amount of corruption is de rigeur. Conservatives value highly visible material objects as well as chattels to "keep score" in the success game. Women do not fare well in this parallel universe either as they are often pawns in a shadowy power struggle. All this hierarcrhical intrigue detracts from the dictates of the Lord. So while conseratives may be believers, largely heterosexual, heavy donaters to Christian church, charity, and cause (anti-abortion), good providers and at least give lip service to family stability, they sin mightly. Some of the most egregious are idolatry (mammon, baubles, pride), adultery, theft, bearing false witness, and covetousness. Does this help, Christopher?


message 112: by Christopher (new)

Christopher | 115 comments I don't know about "help" but it pleases me to hear you speak civilly. :-)


message 113: by Robert (new)

Robert Core | 1864 comments Christopher - I can also be VERY charming when necessary. When just venturing out the front door brings Satan into full reality, it helps to have a whole quiver full of arrows.


message 114: by Christopher (new)

Christopher | 115 comments At least we are back on the topic of this thread. ;-)


message 115: by Rod (last edited Sep 08, 2013 09:09AM) (new)

Rod Horncastle David quote:
"Well, it's too bad people make such a big issue out the age of the earth and universe considering it doesn't matter for salvation."

Well yes and no David.

When and what is sin? When and what is Satan? Is mankind naturally sinful or do we occasionally make errors that keep us out of Righteousness?

It's all about God declaring something good. No Death or sin. If you believe evolution or an old Earth you are stating that death is okay. If Adam and Eve were not the first: then we have a huge problem with sin/death and the need for a savior based on the state of existence.
And Satan is a part of this. Fallen angels tell us a great deal about God's plan and character.

Why did God give us the written law? Not to help us be perfect: but to prove that we once and for all CANNOT be perfect. WE are totally dependent on him.


message 116: by David (new)

David Clemons | 119 comments I always thought that the punishment for sin was spiritual death. Even if it was a physical death, that wouldn't apply to animals.


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