Monthly Group Reads: SEPTEMBER 2013 (Group Read 1): Strategos by Gordon Doherty

[Holly]

Diving in!

[Gordon]

Jane wrote: "Thank you for your prompt reply."

You're welcome. I'm just stunned I managed to summarise the point in less than 10,000 words!
Will have to keep my answer handy for future reference :)

[Eileen]

Bryn wrote: "Secondhand shop just opened near me (cheap one), on a Byzantine theme came across The Belt of Gold that Eileen mentioned, thanks for putting the title in my head Eileen."

Glad to help. I have always enjoyed Cecilia Holland, but until recently had not read this one.

[Jane]

Derek wrote: "Cool avatar Jane!"

Thank you, Derek.

[Jane]

Gordon, I hope Apion's removing his prayer rope does not symbolize his dehumanization. I like him too much for his personality to change so drastically.

[Bryn]

I'm keen to go on with #2. With two worries: what Jane says, I hope Apion doesn't turn into a vengeance-machine now. And Alp Arslan has a gallant legend, generous to enemies blah blah. I hope that isn't totally deconstructed. :)

[Jane]

I'm eager to read #2 also. Just thought of something: I never knew Alp Arslan had that reputation. [We always think of Saladin's 'gallant legend' among those Muslim rulers, at least I do.] Well, my point being, I bet that's where C.S. Lewis got the name Arslan for his benevolent lion in The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe!!

[Eileen]

Jane wrote: "I'm eager to read #2 also. Just thought of something: I never knew Alp Arslan had that reputation. [We always think of Saladin's 'gallant legend' among those Muslim rulers, at least I do.] Well,..."

I actually liked the 2nd book better than the first. It followed actual historic events.

[Jane]

That makes me more eager, Eileen. I hope Apion is still as likeable as in #1. Could you call #1 a Bildungsroman and #2 more historical in tone?

[Bryn]

@Jane It's a great name, I loved that C S Lewis used it for his lion. It means lion, as Gordon tells us. An element in a lot of Turks' names from these times.

[Darcy]

Someone who is familiar with Turkish may want to weigh in, but my understanding is that C.S. Lewis chose Aslan as the name as it's the Turkish for Lion.

[Bryn]

Yes. Common in the names, but I don't suppose he named the lion after any historical figure.

[Bryn]

The word can be arslan or aslan.

Alp = brave/gallant/hero, but Gordon went with with the animals theme for his prophecy.

[Eileen]

Jane wrote: "That makes me more eager, Eileen. I hope Apion is still as likeable as in #1. Could you call #1 a Bildungsroman and #2 more historical in tone?"

Just as likable, but more mature about it.

[Jane]

Eileen wrote: "Jane wrote: "That makes me more eager, Eileen. I hope Apion is still as likeable as in #1. Could you call #1 a Bildungsroman and #2 more historical in tone?"

Just as likable, but more mature abo..."

That's good; I'm glad to hear it. If #1 was a Bildungsroman, by #2 then he has matured...

[Troy]

I've just finished the sequel . If you like Born in the Borderlands then you will love the sequel! I can't wait for the third book in the series.

Gordon, get writing!

[Nick]

Finished this whilst away for the weekend. I really enjoyed it and found it very easy to read.

I'll contribute more about why I liked it when I'm not half-asleep!

[Jane]

Troy wrote: "I've just finished the sequel . If you like Born in the Borderlands then you will love the sequel! I can't wait for the third book in the ser..."

I'm glad in your review of the sequel, you mention Apion's personality. That was one concern: whether the taking off of the prayer rope symbolized his becoming an automaton, no feeling killing machine, no gentleness left to him...

[Nick]

I felt more human after my shower. So here are some of my thoughts:

I would have given this 4 stars, but the fact Gordon Doherty wrote and published this fine novel independently has elevated it to 5 stars in my eyes.

I've posted a more detailed review of the book on its page.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Nick (and anyone else) please feel free to link to your Goodreads reviews here in this discussion.

[Nick]

Tada!

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Her's my review too!

Tada!

http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...

[Gordon]

Hi All,

For some reason I stopped getting email alerts about this thread, so I thought you had all gone quiet!

Nick & Troy - delighted you enjoyed so much and thank you all for taking the time to review.

Great to hear some of you have tried and enjoyed the sequel too. Jane & Eileen, 'bildungsroman' succinctly summarises Born in the Borderlands. I'd never heard of this term before, but now I can use it for a one word answer when someone asks me what the first volume is all about :)

Best,
Gord

[Jane]

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13...

Here is my review.

I am very eager to go on with Apion's story, so I have Golden Heart on order in paperback!! From Born in the Borderlands, he's becoming a favorite fictional character. Thank you, Gordon, for giving him and his story to us.

[Eileen]

Gordon wrote: "Hi All,

For some reason I stopped getting email alerts about this thread, so I thought you had all gone quiet!

Nick & Troy - delighted you enjoyed so much and thank you all for taking the time to..."

Don't want to display too much ignorance, but exactly what does "bildungsroman' mean? Never studied German.

[Jane]

Bildungsroman: "Class of novel derived from German literature that deals with the formative years of the main character, whose moral and psychological development is depicted. It typically ends on a positive note, with the hero's foolish mistakes and painful disappointments behind him and a life of usefulness ahead. It grew out of folklore tales in which a dunce goes out into the world seeking adventure. One of the earliest novelistic developments of the theme, Johann W. von Goethe's Wilhelm Meister's Apprenticeship (1795–96), remains a classic example."--Merriam-Webster

Bildung=formation or education
Roman=novel

I think the closest in English, but not an exact translation, would be 'coming-of-age novel'

I learned the word only because my major in college, years ago, was German. In many of the courses we read German or Austrian literature.
I think Bildungsroman is a neat word. :)

[Eileen]

Jane wrote: "Bildungsroman: "Class of novel derived from German literature that deals with the formative years of the main character, whose moral and psychological development is depicted. It typically ends on ..."

Thank you. It is a wonderful word to know. Kind of like schadenfreude.

[Jane]

Right!! Schadenfreude is another untranslatable word I like and use. I own a neat book on untranslatable words you or anyone else in the group might want to peruse sometime: They Have a Word for It: A Lighthearted Lexicon of Untranslatable Words & Phrases

[Jane]

Gordon, I did like the touch with your adding the prayer rope. I hope Apion doesn't abandon it forever as his story continues.

[Gordon]

Jane wrote: "Gordon, I did like the touch with your adding the prayer rope. I hope Apion doesn't abandon it forever as his story continues."

Ah - all is yet to be decided on that front :)

[Jane]

I can certainly understand his feelings at the end of Born in the Borderlands, but I hope he overcomes them.
He HAS been dealt some tough blows, but I hope he's resilient and has humility. I hope he realizes he can't rely on himself alone.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

I know I am happy to go forth in life with bildungsroman in my repertoire. Thanks to Jane. :)

[Linda]

I posted my review of Strategos - Born in the Borderlands on Goodreads, B&N and Amazon. I enjoyed the read and have the next book of the series just waiting for me. Been a bit humbled and cowed (eieio) by the all right thing. But, I learned an important lesson: what is correct here may not be correct there! Now you all have gone to speaking German. My last name is probably the only German word I know independent of German words found in WWI and WWII books. Lol

I rated it four stars. How do I make the rating show in gold up by my name?

[Martin]

Just finished the book. I really enjoyed the twists and turns of the inventive plot. There is a brooding sense of fate over the whole tale but also the sense that the human players can and must take fate by the tail. I shall post a review when I've given it time to percolate in my head.

[Holly]

I finished 1 and 2. Very enjoyable. I rated them both 4 stars and look forward to the third.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Gordon must be very happy with the positive response his book is getting. :)

[Holly]

Holly wrote: "I finished 1 and 2. Very enjoyable. I rated them both 4 stars and look forward to the third."

I do see your point Terri about this bordering on historical fantasy; especially the first book. It's made me realize that I must lean towards historical fantasy more so than straight historical fiction as I've loved several books that you were lukewarm toward. It's been quite an eye opener for me!

[Eileen]

Holly wrote: "Holly wrote: "I finished 1 and 2. Very enjoyable. I rated them both 4 stars and look forward to the third."

I do see your point Terri about this bordering on historical fantasy; especially the fir..."

I think the witch/wise woman who turns up periodically is more of an icon or Greek chorus pointing in a direction the POV character will take than just a fantasy. Gordon knows what is going to happen to the Byzantine empire, and this is pointing to it.

To us a thousand years later, the empire's decline appears inevitable. To the Byzantines, recovery seemed always just around the corner. They had been in bad situations before and recovered, and their sense that God was on their side reinforced that conviction.

Nonetheless, this is one issue I have with a lot of historical fiction - it is told from the perspective of those who know the ending. People living in those times had no idea what was going to happen, had no mystical figures pointing to what the end would be. It can be difficult to portray the confusion, the sense of being "in a dark wood wandering" that people felt centuries ago, but it would maybe make for more exciting reading.

[Linda]

Good point. Byzantium will get some reprieve before its demise. I have to put myself in the character's place to feel anything more than doom. It must be hard to create a character who can make the reader go with him to a place of hope. Does that make sense to anyone but me? The next logical step, to me, involves how that character will see the writing on the wall and make an escape for himself to hopefully a better place and better life.

[Jane]

Eileen wrote: "Holly wrote: "Holly wrote: "I finished 1 and 2. Very enjoyable. I rated them both 4 stars and look forward to the third."

I do see your point Terri about this bordering on historical fantasy; espe..."

Good point, Eileen. Your comparison w/ icon or Greek Chorus was apt. The appearances/reappearances of the old woman to different people seem like her pointing forward to a resolution, if people just can interpret her Delphic words accurately. I think her physical blindness indicates an otherworldly insight .

[Eileen]

Jane wrote: "Eileen wrote: "Holly wrote: "Holly wrote: "I finished 1 and 2. Very enjoyable. I rated them both 4 stars and look forward to the third."

I do see your point Terri about this bordering on historica..."

Also, the Byzantines did make a remarkable recovery starting in 1081 when Alexios Comnenos became emperor, even though much of the territory lost between 1025 and 1081 was never recovered. It lasted just over 100 years, before things fell apart again.

In a way, it amazes me how much harm weak and foolish rulers can do to a country, despite all the efforts of the good ones that came before, and that follow them. Very sobering.

[Lia]

Finished. I am giving it 4 stars.

[Jane]

I'm reading it for the second time. I'm picking up on the prejudice theme this time. Very important to the story, this is telling Apion there are good and bad on both sides and for him not to stand in judgment.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Wonder what happened to Gordon?? Hope you are just busy Gordon and not offended by any comments. :)

[Bryn]

Maybe his notifications failed again, but he can take on trust that we're chatterboxes here.

[C.P.]

Yes, the handling of the prejudice theme is something I especially like about the book.

[Jane]

I'm also noticing the sans-serif font, which I hadn't before. Sans-serif is annoying to me, much more so than the spacing. When I got this computer I changed the font to one with serifs, so that's how anything comes in.

[Dawn]

Really?? I love sans-serif font.
It hadn't occurred to me to change my computer though. :)

[Jane]

It's harder on my eyes. Somehow those little squiggles make text easier to read.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Bryn wrote: "Maybe his notifications failed again, but he can take on trust that we're chatterboxes here."

Oh yeah, that's right. Maybe that's why.