They Have a Word for it!

[Tytti]

Well Hungarian has 24, IIRC.

I don't know, probably not. Spoken Finnish in general is so different that you wouldn't notice those things.

[Ken, Moderator]

I know a few Polish swears, though I'd hate to try to spell them....

[Tytti]

Oh and it's sort of expected that you don't speak grammatically correct Finnish.

Like:

"Mentiin", literally a passive form, 'was gone'(?). but usually means "we went" which would be "(me) menimme".

When talking about people, people generally refer them as "it". (But often to pets as she or he.): "Se sano" = "it say" but means "hän sanoi" = "s/he said".

Words are shortened and spoken together: "I have" = "minulla on" but when spoken "mull/on" that comes from "mulla on". Or "Sano(i)kse?" = "Did he(it) say?", literally "Sanoiko hän?"

Anyone who would speak Finnish like it is written would sound weird. Spoken Finnish OTOH is very difficult to write. (Or not really, people use it while chatting but it's still different, a mixture of written and spoken Finnish.) And not to make it too simple, people decline words a bit different in different dialects, there is still "a line" between eastern and western dialects. Many different words, too.

The best Finnish war novel The Unknown Soldier is notoriosly difficult to translate because it has several different dialects that also tell a lot about the characters because they come from different parts of the country and "their" people are usually different. But I have heard that not only there are parts taken from the English edition but also some added(!). I hope that it's not true.

[Melinda]

Tytti,

Very interesting. English has a host of problems, but one thing I'll say for it: American written English and Standard American oral English are grammatically very similar. I'm not saying people talk exactly like they write, but it's very common that people speak in a way that would be absolutely grammatically correct in written English (as long as you don't consider the standard contractions "incorrect.")

Then, of course, there are dialects, and slang, and such, but if you do speak the way you write, few people will even notice. Unless, of course, you start sprinkling "whom" into your conversations. :)

That's the advantage of relatively simple grammar, I suppose. Absolutely ghastly spelling, but fairly simple grammar.

[Tytti]

I don't think it's about the grammar... I think it's because the words are longer so it's easy to skip letters. Like it's easier to shout "Oota" than "Odota" ("Wait"). And then there is "Ootko" = "Are you" ("Oletko?") but "Ootatko" = "Will you wait" ("Odotatko?") and so on...

But there is one thing that is probably impossible to translate, at least to very many languages:

hevonen vetää = A horse pulls.
hevosmies vedättää = The horseman "makes" the horse pull.
kymppi vedätyttää = The foreman orders to horseman to make to horse pull.
ukkoherra vedätätyttää = The big boss demands that the foreman orders the horseman to make the horse pull.

This is a very rough translation because I don't know how say it otherwise. :D

Edit: Oh, it has found it's way to Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Untransl...

And about those blues, it seems that it is the same in Greek. That might have something to do with religion, then, too, because both Russians and Greeks are Orthodox and light blue is the colour of Virgin Mary... At least in Russia you see many houses painted in light blue, I think it has some protective meaning... Nope, I can't really remember exactly.

[Melinda]

The horse pulls example is fascinating. Complicated!

[Tytti]

Melinda wrote: "The horse pulls example is fascinating. Complicated!"

Well, maybe for a English speaker, not for us.

Also the Wiki article mentioned two Finnish words for write and jump but there are more. Like:

juosta = run
juoksennella = run around aimlessly
and one can make a word like 'juoksahdella' = take short spurts while running around, or something like that

hyppiä and hypätä were already explained (both mean jumping) but you can also:

hypellä = jump around aimlessly
hypähdellä = jump around and maybe take some higher jumps while doing that

So Finnish is a very flexible language, you can change a word a bit and the meaning or the tone changes.

[Ken, Moderator]

Another good thing about English -- it does not have feminine and masculine objects. Aye, Dios....

[Tytti]

Newengland wrote: "Another good thing about English -- it does not have feminine and masculine objects. Aye, Dios...."

Neither does Finnish. We don't have articles, either. Completely unnecessary things.

[Melinda]

Ah, but "the plague" and "a plague" are different. As are "give me the apple" and "give me an apple." Okay, so it's not the MOST important thing in language, but I like articles. :) I don't like trying to explain them to my Slavic-speaking ESL students. Very confusing for them. On the other hand, Spanish has eight articles.

Tytti, it looks, from your example, that in Finnish you can modify a base verb to give it a different meaning. In English we have to use synonyms and/or adverbs. Is it just coincidence that the "run aimlessly" and "jump aimlessly" both have an "ella" sort of ending? Could you add a form of "ella" to "drive," for example, and get "drive aimlessly? Cool stuff.

In Spanish there's a different word for "that one" and "that one clear over there"

[Melinda]

Oh, and of course Spanish has two verbs that we translate as "to be." They're not interchangeable.

[Ken, Moderator]

Thus, when Hamlet says, "To be or not to be" in Spanish, it comes out...

[Tytti]

Melinda wrote: "Ah, but "the plague" and "a plague" are different."

But we use other words if we have to differentiate them, not always.

Is it just coincidence that the "run aimlessly" and "jump aimlessly" both have an "ella" sort of ending?

Yes and no. 'Ajaa' and "ajella" (drive) and with some others too (sit, hold) and you might have to change the base a bit. But "kävellä" means just "walk" (but kulkea, kuljeskella means walk or "to move oneself", too).

[Melinda]

I just found a great article on this topic: http://www.theguardian.com/media/mind...

My favorite example? Swedish "mångata": the road-like reflection of the moon on water. Beautiful.

[Tytti]

Melinda wrote: "My favorite example? Swedish "mångata": the road-like reflection of the moon on water."

En måne = a moon, en gata = a street, road...

I have yet to find a good word in English for "eväät". It means something like "a packed lunch" but usually I pack some food for the whole day or for a couple of days or even a week. So that "lunch" part sounds stupid then.

There is also a nice word in Finnish: "lukemattomat kirjani" can mean both my countless and unread books... For some reason that came to mind, it has nothing to do with the fact that I just bought five paperbacks that were on sale, three of them 500-650 pages long...

[Stephen]

Pretty much the opposite as the reason I started this thread...

I want to ask if there IS a word for it.

I know that déjà vu is the feeling that you get that you've experienced something or somewhere before. Is there a sort of antonym for that?

I just saw the word raucous in a movie description and the word just looked wrong somehow, like it was spelled incorrectly or something.
Is there a word for that feeling?

[Joanne]

1. New
2. Uncertain

[Hilary]

@Stephen (sorry not exactly on topic) 'Mutiny on the Bounty' ought, apparently, to be 'Mutiny IN the Bounty' according to an old naval officer. (This, of course, may be different in American English. That I do not know.)

[Cairnraiser]

Stephen wrote: "Pretty much the opposite as the reason I started this thread...

I want to ask if there IS a word for it.

I know that déjà vu is the feeling that you get that you've experienced something or somew..."

I know I've seen Jamais Vu in a discussion of déjà vu, and there's a wikipedia article for it, but I don't think it's commonly used.

[Stephen]

Thanks Cornraiser, jamais vu sounds just perfect!