Zombies! discussion
3 books in a series is enough?
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Gina
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Aug 05, 2013 05:42PM
Do you ever feel like some authors are just making their zombie series too long? I don't mind a trilogy if the story is good. Mira Grant wrote a great trilogy. I guess I have gotten tired of book 4, book 5, etc. I would rather see the author end the storyline when it's still interesting and start over with another concept. I just finished the 4th book in the Remaining series and I find out that's NOT the end. UGH. I really liked the first couple of books but at the end if this one, I was really getting tired of the story and the characters. I don't even know if I want to read the last book.
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I remember not liking the direction the story was going...But I have to admit I'm not too fond of zombie stories that are involved with the "Big Picture". I prefer the individual survival stories.
But I stop watching a lot of TV shows for the same reason -- most have the "A" storyline (the weekly mystery or whatever) and the "B" storyline (some type of big conspiracy or underlying story, in the background). But after a season or so, the "A" stories fade away and the "B" storyline takes over. But I LIKE the "A" stories better.
Mod
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YES! This happens to me too.
As to the three or four or five books... for me, it just depends on the series. Sometimes, I'm done. Sometimes, I'm happy to pick them back up later, when I've had a break. A very few, I don't even go on to the second one in the trilogy.
I've been reading the novellas and stories that Mira Grant has been putting out - all in the Newsflesh universe - and I've realized that I would pretty happily read another book. I didn't feel books 2 and 3 were as good, but if she puts out another like Feed, I'll give her my money :)
I'll admit, I get bored easily. Shorter series just work better for me. Also, I don't like to start a series until all the books are published, so a series that just keeps going and going is a bummer.
I used to reread all of the previous books in the series before continuing on to the new one...
Randy wrote: "I used to reread all of the previous books in the series before continuing on to the new one..."OCD much my friend?
I think three to a series is the right amount if we are talking novels, or long novellas.
If they are released in segments or episodically, than I will go as high as 8.
Now I throw all that out the window when we are talking detective novels, because the plot is different each time.
And Jim Butcher can do no wrong (except for the handful of books that he did very wrong, but that does not make my point so forget I said it).
It all depends on the story.My favorite series has 53 books -- Dray Prescot
Another series I enjoyed had 37 books -- Richard Blade
That second series would be similar to a detective novel with a different plot each time. Richard Blade was like James Bond, but part of a project where they pushed him through to an alternate dimension in each book (kind of like the TV series Sliders or Stargate SG-1). So each book could have him going to a completely new world.
And any author could really do an unlimited number of zombie books. Each one could be the story of another individual that survives the apocalypse, such as:
ZombieWorld 1 -- Arthur's story
ZombieWorld 2 -- Angie's story
.
.
.
The only relationship between the books would be the world that the zombie apocalypse occurs in. And, if your reader base decides they especially like one or more characters, their stories could continue.
Tammy K. wrote: "OCD much my friend?"Nah. I would just forget what had happened in the previous book(s) and wanted to refresh my memory.
I'm trying to give series another shot. I think the 15 years or so in between Gunslinger novels turned me off to the idea.
It all depends on the characters for me, and if they are "people " I want to hang out with for any length if time. I am reading a serialized story now that has 24 parts but each one is Novella length. If I love the characters I can go on and on with them. I know when series I loved ended too soon I was bummed.
Mod
It would actually be really great to see more stand alone titles. There are series for everything now. Not just zombie books and not only does the story start to lack interest but my wallet can't keep up :o/
I'm starting to feel that way about Mark Tufo's Zombie fallout. I'm getting to the point where I can't stand how stupid the characters are acting regarding another one and I am bored with Eliza whose like the main "villain" or something....
Oh dear. We're planning 10-12 books for the Arisen series, and currently writing book 5.I'm also note-making for a huge project (not zombies, well maybe some.) that I want to do 100 short novels for.
Maybe you'd like the first three? haha
I see the point some of you are making for not going beyond three books in a series. Personally, however, I love a long series. If the quality drops too low after a while, I stop getting that series but I've read several series where (in my opinion at least) the story is still good way after the third book. To each their own.I do very much prefer that all books in the series be actual book length. I don't really care for reading a long series of installments that are only as long as chapter or two.
When I finished Valley of Death Zombie Trailer Park way back in 2010 I had no definite plans for a sequel. But then I got emails, which I always like to read, suggesting another adventure might be fun. So I wrote a sequel that was supposed to end the story. Zombies of All Hallows Evil should have been the end of things. BUT... then I got more emails again requesting (demanding) another story with the same characters. I'm not a curmudgeon or a meanie. If readers want me to keep writing along the same story line with new twists and turns, who am I to say, "No, you've had enough. Now, go away and leave me alone." So, I guess the number of books in a series really is up to the readers. If they want more, and I don't have to rip out my hair coming up with more stuff, I don't see a harm in it. Although I find it kind of chintzy for some authors to write a series where each story is less than 70,000 words. If you're going to write a novel, I don't believe it should just be the bare minumum.
----Bill
Williambebb wrote: "Although I find it kind of chintzy for some authors to write a series where each story is less than 70,000 words."LOL.
Self-publishing has raised a lot of lazy writers. I ran into one Kindle eBook that was labeled as the first of a trilogy. It was 16 pages long.
Even when finished, the entire trilogy will still just be a short story.
16 pages... They must be riveting good stuff. My chapters usually run around 40 pages. Of course, I tend to meander a bit. I even had that added to a novel I did last year, The Meandering Menace :-)
I have often found that most good trilogies are too short and need to be longer.
Im a little disappointed. I was planning on doing a zombies that consisted of like 5 or 6 books. I have so many ideas to keep the series going its not even funny. But it seems like everyone here prefers 3.
Chris,If your ideas are fresh (not the same thing done a different way) and your characters are growing throughout the series (not stagnant or stereotypes) than I feel a series can continue past 3 books.
Let me use Jim Butchers' Harry Dresden series.
As the series goes, it grows to include new characters, new types of supernatural beings, new dimension of reality (the fairy worlds and worlds between our reality).
The main character goes from being a blacklist wizard on probation to a Warden, and more but I can't say what because its a spoiler.
His friends grow in their knowledge and placement in the book and some of the important characters die off.
Harry does not start off "knowing it all, with all the cool tricks of his trade" . He grows as he stumbles through and often mistakes (flawed hero).
The 'bad guys' grow (evolve) too. They don't always lose or always stay the same. Some get caught of course but some remain just out of reach. Sometimes the bad guys work with Harry on a case on a truce for that book. In short, the challengers to our hero are complex with their own goals.
Each book has its own plot...solve this mystery before you bite the bullet... Each book has different success rates of the characters some of the books in with minor success or success at a high cost... Yet each book lays out the direction of and progress the "series" plot book by book.
The more you read of the series the more you see the larger plot taking place.
I'm trying really hard not to say any spoilers here.
The author Jim Butcher grows in his skills as an author as the series progresses (hopefully most authors do).
While Harry is the main character, he does not always stay the lead character of the books. Secondary characters have their own subplots that also progress the overall series plot. In some books Harry is barely seen (my fellow readers will get that reference).
I can equally describe the secondary characters as I can Harry and tell you their back stories. Because the author 'World builds' in each book, providing the readers mind more to see/know/love.
The series is not all about Harry or the white council (wizards/witches) you have fairies, werewolves, angels, vampires and more.
As an avid reader of the series, I can describe to you the ruling system and current internal conflicts of each of those supernatural beings, because as I've said the author builds them up in the various books.
Bit by bit, book by book, we explore the supernatural world of the series.
Why I shared this is to show you that if you have a large enough diversity of both characters and storylines than you can keep the series alive.
However, if your characters are limited (flat, not growing) and if their challenges are the same (zero plot diversity) and your setting the same (the city by the sea) and your bad guys are the same (the man in the black hat and his buddies) and if you have no overall direction for the series plot other than to get that man in the black hat and his buddies....than three books is likely more than enough. Just my views on that.
Chris, if you've got good ideas for a series beyond three books, go for it! Those of us who like longer series can keep going with it and the others can stop after the third one. Win-win!
Personal I will keep reading new books in a series as long as the hold my interest. There are some writers I never get tire of and the character become old friends. I can think of a few writer that I have read 10-15 books with the same hero and I anxiously await the next book. On the other hand I have read books that even the first on was to much. So it just depends on if the writer can create a story and heroes that are good enough to keep you hooked.
Three is a great number of books for a series, but If the readers want more and an author doesn't just grind out a rehash of the same old thing or get lazy and toss out something they don't really feel passionate about I don't see the harm in a continuing series. But then again, it would be silly to write something no one likes and then continue boldy making more stories no one likes. (Of course I'm kind of silly)I made that mistake with a science fiction story that I liked writing quite a bit, then realized it was too big a story for one novel and tried to wrap it up in a second even though the first one never really took off. And sometime next year I will FINISH the trilogy, not because it was a huge success but, because I like the story. That's actually the most important thing in writing stories, in my opinion. The author should either LOVE the story and the characters or shouldn't bother to write it.
I am in the process of writing the third and last of my "The Fall" trilogy and I will never add to it once it's done. I am of the opinion that three books are more than enough to tell the tale and I've used the format of using three different viewpoints in each book. Whilst the first two are in the first person I've made the final one from the third person as seen through the eyes of a woman who sees tragedy unfold in front of her, it is making for an interesting time of writing for me.
I stumbled onto this thread and I am glad I did.I originally wrote a short novella about zombies which was a genre that while I am passionate about, have never delved in before.
I do believe it (zombie genre) has been done to death but I bought in several things that have not been done before. I also concentrated more on a small group's survival and their ongoing battle with a sinister human nemesis and his followers.
The number one complaint I received about the first book was that it stopped too short! While I agreed with this point, I honestly did not have an idea on where it would go as a stand alone book.
I normally specialize in stand alone novels or longer book based series. I decided to do a series of novellas within the zombie genre although as I said above the zombies really are the background at this stage in the story. The books focus on a aspiring cage fighter, his wife and his sister. The series is called the "Tasty Trio".
I have just finished writing the second book in the series. I try to incorporate some new ideas including a zombie horse that never gets tired and is ridden by the villain who straps his mouth shut with electrical tape.
I will put out probably 2-3 more novellas in this series and that will be it. The books are short, only around 20000 words and because of this I will only charge a minimal fee.
To be honest, I decided that this would be a great series to work on while concentrating on bigger projects and also allowing readers to sample my work. The premise behind this is that as a new author I hope they like what I am doing and check out my other projects. I did this because I love the genre and it is immensely popular. I think (hope) that I will definitely see more results after the second book and subsequent books are published.
I will continue writing this series as the ideas are still evolving but I definitely do not want to over do it. A big ending before the reader gets sick of the series would be what I am looking for when finishing. I believe that this is fitting and will achieve what the books set out to accomplish.
My personal preference would be no more than three, so I'm keeping mine as a trilogy. Standalones don't work as well from a sales perspective, at least not for a first-timer like myself. A trilogy gives me a chance to build a base. Anything more and it keeps going, and going... and going...... and going.......... I like Tufo's work, but I can't see myself reading the whole series. I think it's up to eight now?There are too many good stories out there to be married to one for so long.
I think that you can't say how many books long a story will be. You should not end a story until the story is ready to end. On top of that you have the fans of the story to keep in mind. Personally if i get into a book i don't care if it's 10 or more books long as long as the author can keep me wanting to read more and i think that is the true secret it's not about how many books it's about keeping readers wanting to read.
I don't think many authors are able to keep a zombie story interesting for that long Joe (10 books+). It's just like television. How many series have been successful after 10 years? Many try it but few are really as good in year 10 as in year 1 or 2.
Glynn wrote: "Oh dear. We're planning 10-12 books for the Arisen series, and currently writing book 5.I'm also note-making for a huge project (not zombies, well maybe some.) that I want to do 100 short novels ..."
****
Just joined this group. But I am all in favor of 10-12 books in the Arisen series. And speaking of.....when is Book 5 coming out? You get us hooked then make us wait to satisfy our need for an "Arisen" fix. Feed Me....................
Honestly I'm getting annoyed at trilogies and longer with other genres as well at this point.To me it seems the current trend is just to stretch out what could have been a perfectly good stand alone novel into spread out drivel to turn a buck, especially in the YA genre.
I agree Jess - book series no longer seem to be books. A really good book series allows each individual book to stand alone as a great read. When a book series becomes a serialized book - that is, each chapter is released individually, as is seen in a lot of self-publishing these days, then it needs to be labeled as such. Then the reader knows what they're getting in to and will enjoy it much more.Just my two cents.
Hoping to get opinions for an idea I'm playing with. I'm the author of The Grace Series. Currently working on book 4 (each is around 80k words and they need to ideally be read in order). Feedback so far from fans is "more, now, more!" I had originally planned to just keep going until I felt it was done (which as an author, to me means starts to get stale). I really want to do five total, but need a break for now. So my question is this...it's written from the perspective of survivor Zoe and spans six months of the apocalypse at most at this point. I want to release book four and leave the option for the series to be done just in case it is. Then in a year perhaps put out the fifth book, but have it be a bit different. I want to fast forward a few years and have one of the younger sub characters be the protagonist. Would ending a series that way (with what could even be the first stand alone int he series) be odd from a readers perspective? Thanks for the feedback!
"Feedback so far from fans is "more, now, more!" I had originally planned to just keep going until I felt it was done (which as an author, to me means starts to get stale)."I think there is a danger in 'reading' too much regarding fans saying they want more more more. I can understand how some characters click in the reader's mind and how they'd like the story to go on beyond a few books BUT M. Lauryl is correct to point out if things start feeling stale it's not worth doing.
However, if the premise justifies more stories than a few I fail to see the harm in going on as long as things don't feel stale. Going through the motions and not having characters evolve is a concern I've had. Over time things ALWAYS change.
I just finished a HUGE story (200,000 words long) that is the third with the same main characters but things changed. I bowed to fans that wanted another story yet refused to have everyone make it through without a scratch, or even 'wrap' the story up with a nice red bow where everyone makes it home with everything working out. I did the red bow ending for the first two novels and later regretted it. I wouldn't advise a cliff hanger ending where readers would justifiably feel cheated but if the story and premise can justify it an open-ended closing can be good. Personally, I enjoyed The Dark Tower series books even though each novel ended without a SOLID 'everything's all wrapped up in a shiny bow' finale.
I guess, in summation, I'd say keep on writing with the same storyline as long as things don't feel boring, predictable, or stale. And perhaps most importantly, keep writing as long as YOU (the author) enjoys doing it. I'd never write a novel about Norweigan door knobs even if offered a truckload of cash because I don't care about doorknobs in general... let alone ones from Norway.
-Bill
I'm currently writing a zombie series and really wanted it to end in three books. The story just wouldn't let it happen. I have the fourth book mapped out and it definitely ends there. I guess what I'm saying is the story has to dictate the length. I do feel some authors drag out stories because their character becomes popular or for some other reason. Survival during a zombie apocalypse would be short-lived. I don't care how tough or smart the character is, the overwhelming numbers of dead would at some point end the persons lucky streak and the hero would die.
I think it depends on the story. I write horror stories, and a few of my short stories and one of my books deals with zombies. Depending on how zombies function in the story, an outbreak may or may not erupt into a full fledged apocalyptic scene. The late 80s zombie anthology "Book of the Dead" is a fine study of the ways in which zombie anatomy can differ in various incarnations of the zombie mythology. Stories like "The Good Parts" by Les Daniels and "Eat Me" by Robert R. McCammon offer zombies that rot like any corpse does and eventually cease to be due to the nature of entropy; Stephen King's "Home Delivery" offers a zombie plague caused by aliens; "Less than Zombie" is written from the POV of nihilistic youth living in a world where zombie infection has become a reality. Not all zombie outbreaks result in an apocalypse: the dead do not always overwhelm.
Sumiko wrote: "Not all zombie outbreaks result in an apocalypse: the dead do not always overwhelm...."Well said.
