Best way to specify race in description?

[Laurel]

Hello there! I am working on book three, "Princess Anyu Returns." The princess has landed on D425E25 Tertius (Earth, but the audience is not supposed to know that until the final chapter) and is encountering her first Earth humans.

She ends up at an SCA event (I've been a SCAdian most of my life) and they have just decided that she must be from Europe since she doesn't really speak English (well, yeah, she's from another galaxy).

I want to take this opportunity to introduce new characters, including some African-American characters. But I'm a little frightened as an American-Irish that if I specify any racial or physical details for these ladies I might step on some toes -- which is the LAST thing I want to do.

Here is the paragraph I have right now:

"Lady Marion, a heavy-set woman 53 cun tall with sultry brown eyes appeared from behind three grills, all cooking different types of meat and vegetables, her camp tunic covered in a long white apron, “We’re almost ready to eat. If someone would be so kind to help me plate this and pour the tea into pitchers, supper will be served in just a moment.” "

Now the reason why Marion is doing the cooking is because she's a professional chef and everyone gets happy when she cooks. I know some gentles in society who are chefs and yes, when they are in charge of feast, the food is to die for!

But I am worried about stereotypes.

Marion is young, plus-sized but very attractive and enormously talented.

She spins and dances and is just a lot of fun to talk to.


Princess Anyu has never met anyone like her.

So how can/should I describe her physically without people getting mad?

Is someone going to be offended that the person who cooks dinner for the group is black?

[The FountainPenDiva, Old school geek chick and lover of teddy bears]

Having been an SCA'an for a few years, it's nice to meet one on GR. So, how to go about describing your black female SCA member who enjoys cooking? Firstly, she's in the SCA, which to me is very cool. Second, I wouldn't make her plus-sized just because it's way too trite. She's athletic because she could have some knight training (I met a couple of black female knights from my days at Pensic).

Here's the thing--there are PoC in the SCA, so model your characters after those you've seen or met. That's one reason why I often wonder where people live, because it seems strange to me that crafting well-rounded characters of any race just isn't that hard, LOL or at least it shouldn't be. Stay away from stereotypes is the most important thing. Having a diverse critique group can also go a long way in preventing fail.

[The FountainPenDiva, Old school geek chick and lover of teddy bears]

Oh, and former Ren-Faire hawker here as well.

Seriously, you'll do okay and it's cool that you asked. I realize that can be hard, but if you'll allow me a bit of honesty here: sometimes I feel sad that authors seem to have no problems writing about vampires, werewolves, faeries, dragons and the like. There are straight women who write about gay male relationships (with varying amounts of success *grin*). It's only when the idea of writing a character that happens to be of color that suddenly the trauma occurs. Granted, no one wants to be thought of as racist, even if unintentionally. But sometimes it seems the fear is unwarranted and makes PoC sound like an exotic species rather than plain ol' human beings. And truthfully, even the most aware author who does PoC well might have a few detractors, but that doesn't mean one should quit or not try to understand those opinions. One of my favorite authors, Alexander McCall Smith is an older Scottish gent who brought a Zimbabwe woman, Precious Ramotswe, to life as an erstwhile detective. He did a great job by showing her humanity first.

[[deleted user]]

I agree with fountainpendiva. I'm not sure if you should make her plus sized. It sort of Comes off as a "mammy" stereotype that's been around since Gone with the wind. Of course no one is telling you how to write your story but often times when I read a character black character as overweight playing alongside a Caucasian character, it feels like the authors made them intentionally less attractive so that the Caucasian characters appear more appealing to the reader.

I think it's great any time someone wants to incorporate diversity into their writing; I also think asking others is a great opportunity to see what may and may not work. It is your story though so suggestions are just that, "suggestions".

I think the best way to mold your characters are to model them after really good influences. Black, white, brown, it doesn't matter. Because really relatable traits aren't assigned to specific races/cultures.

I don't think you'll have much trouble with your story, just write characters that you're passionate about. Let the details about their races come after their wonderful personalities are developed.

[Laurel]

TheFountainPenDiva wrote: "Oh, and former Ren-Faire hawker here as well.

Seriously, you'll do okay and it's cool that you asked. I realize that can be hard, but if you'll allow me a bit of honesty here: sometimes I feel sad..."


What is your society name? What kingdom are you in?

I am known in society as Lady Biya (probably the only Jurchen persona in the SCA). I've lived in four kingdoms so far: my native Calontir (which black listed me in 1996 when I switched from a French to Jurchen/Manchu persona of the Jin dynasty because Calontir is Calontir and has trouble at times with the society being about more than just England and France), then Midrealms for about six months, then the East Kingdom from 2000 to 2011. Finally I am currently in Aethelmearc in western PA.

Two real people I know from my many EK years are the basis of this character: Duchess Isabella of York and Countess Brekke. I basically want Lady Marion to look like Isabella, but not be a Tudor persona and not be a costuming laurel.

For those who do not know Duchess Isabella, she is an imposing figure physically. She is nearly six feet tall and well balanced physically to that; not tiny boned like I am (I'm very bird like physically; appropriate for the founder and head of the Known World Aviculturists guild and therefore top parrot lady in the society). Isabella is called a "force of nature" in the East and rightfully so.

But she's not a size six. She is one of the most beautiful women in the society. And yes, she is PoC -- though that is really not what strikes you immediately when you meet her; it's her big personality!

Countess Brekke is one of the finest chefs I've ever met in 23 years of the society. Brekke is caucasian and a bit more petite (of course everyone is more petite than Isabella). Brekke was one of of the first queens of the East, back before Pennsic was in Slippery Rock, PA (which is only about three hours from where I live now). i think she was queen at Pennsic 5?

Brekke is so kind and considerate. You can tell she loves her food. The last event I attended where she was chef she made the second batch of her stew for dayboard without onions (I am deathly allergic to onions) just because that was when I would be eating day board. If memory serves, that was for EK bardic championships.

I've had issues with some feast chefs just not caring about my food allergies, but Brekke could not be more opposite from that. She goes out of her way to make her food better than most restaurants -- and make sure everyone can enjoy it. Brekke is a cooking laurel and this is absolutely well deserved.


So knowing more about the real people in my mind about this character ... how can I tweek this to make this better?

[Ayesha]

I've been thinking about this for a few hours, becuase I didn't want to give an off the cuff response.

When it comes to describing Lady Marion as Afr-Amer, I don't think you need to do much more than mention the color of her skin. For most people, brown = Afr-Amer (even if the reality isn't that simple).

Other's have mentioned some good reasons not to have Lady Marion be a cook (esp if she's one of only a couple of Afr-Amer characters, and a good dancer, to boot.). But I think it depends. Of course there are real (as in IRL) Afr-Amer's who cook and like to dance. The difficulty here would be in ensuring that those aren't Lady Marian's defining qualities. You risk going into stereotype territory, and to avoid it you'll have to make an extra effort to ensure that Lady Marion's persona doesn't conform to the Mammy stereotype... additional work,I should say, above and beyond what you'd normally do to create a well-developed character. It may be easier (especially if you don't have a lot of experience writing minority characters) to just leave those two traits out.

One thing, esp, to be careful of: "Princess Anyu has never met anyone like her." Be very careful not to exoticise (sp?) Lady Marion. You're attempting to be inclusive and racially diverse, don't ruin that by having Princess Anyu gush over the exoticness and newness of an Afr-Amer's body. There's a long history of that in Western culture, and that will definetly get you flame-bombed.

I hope I've been helpful. Good luck, and check back in to let us know how it's going.

[Laurel]

Princess Anyu has little to no experience dealing with the sight impaired.

Beinarians are penta-chromatic -- they have five cones in their retinas and no rods (parrots are tetra-chromatic with no rodes in their eyes, making them night blind). Beinarians see in ultraviolet and infrared and have a cone responsible for black/white vision.

Exposure to radioactive argene (thorium 232, one of the elements used in our nuclear reactors today) destroys the cone for black/white vision and the one for ultra-violet and infrared, an eye condition called "brown eye syndrome" because the condition also darkens the iris to brown.


There are actually dark skinned Beinarians -- but they all have green eyes.

So the reason for the remark about Lady Marion is that Anyu has never seen anyone with dark skin AND brown eyes, especially since BES renders Beinarians functionally blind (it's their version of retinitus pigmentosa).


As an alien, she doesn't know that Earth humans ALL have tri-chromatic retinas and that on THIS planet, it is not crippling to have only three working cones in your eyes.

I'm sorry if the lack of background skews things. There is a story arc in the preceding book about brown eye syndrome, so if you read the books in order, you know about the disorder.

Would it be better for me to just focus on Marion's bizare eye color then and omit anything about skin tone?

[The FountainPenDiva, Old school geek chick and lover of teddy bears]

I've been out of the SCA for years, having given it up to become a Faire geek, LOL. I was Lady Alyce Hawthorn of the Kingdom of Caid (Southern California). It's interesting that you are thinking of bringing an AA character into your story since it was several POC's I met at Pennsic who got me to join the SCA in the first place. One of them was a knight (and I am having a total brain fart because I can't remember his name).

I know by now you're probably thinking "OMG why am I even bothering with the character of Lady Marion if I've got to jump through all these hoops?" Well, that's exactly why more genres--including fantasy--desperately need to be more diverse. Lady Marion sounds like a wonderful character. It's a tough call because I know absolutely nothing about your universe, so I feel as if I'm jumping in feet first and not knowing how deep the water is *grin*. By the way, there are AA in real life who have green eyes.

I know you don't mean this in your asking for help and believe me it's appreciated, but it's that sense of "othering" that I just can't shake. That being Black/AA/Latino/Asian/etc. is some weird species rather than just a human being. That's why I loathe the media. It does such a crappy job in presenting diversity. That's why it's up to us as readers to support not just more representation, but where we are leads who get to save the world.

[Laurel]

Lady Alyce: you are hitting it quite well. I don't want complications or to make a big hullabaloo of a minor character. I just want to show the SCA is a wonderfully diverse place where lots of diverse people make and wear really cool clothes, eat great food, and do fun stuff!

Now really, I do not know who attended what events in 1980 in the Pennsylvania part of the East Kingdom. I just want to capture the feel of an event that might have happened. I know two really neat folks that I want to integrate in just a little.

But I do not want to step on toes.


Did some research onto green/blue eyed African Americans. Omg, that is another tempest in a teapot subject, not unlike the tempest in a teapot I see online about the president's "real" ethnicity.

But it would be interesting, from a literary pov, to give Marion green eyes -- that would be less shocking to her and certainly make HER feel more comfortable.

It's understand that the princess equates brown eyes with blindness; that is the case for her race of humans.


i also need to solve how I am going to handle the character of Lord Stephen, the chirgeon (medical officer in the SCA) who checks to see if she's hurt (she doesn't speak English yet). He takes her pulse in her wrist and, well, finds she doesn't have a pulse. Beinarians naturally would have a different internal anatomy than we do (and it's a neat reference to Babylon 5).

[The FountainPenDiva, Old school geek chick and lover of teddy bears]

I have cousins on my grandmother's side of the family who are dark-skinned and have greenish-hazel to green eyes. As far as we know, they're from some distant Celtic ancestors and the gene tends to pop up every so often, so it's not unusual. Rare, yes. And the only people freaking out about President Obama's ancestry are the cretins who don't like him. The rest of us know he's a biracial black man and we're good with that *grin*.

Maybe Lady Marion can have brown eyes but they have some kind of genetic effect to where they can see infrared or something (channeling my Geordie LaForge here).

Again, I thank you for being so open and asking for input. It can't be easy, wondering if some may take offense. The thing is my friend, no matter how well you cross your i's and dot your t's, no matter how many supporters of color you might get, there may be some detractors. They're not attacking you precisely, just sensitive to the endless erasure/exotification.

I left SCA, went to Big Southern Ren-Faire and became Mistress Blackberry, tavern wench and lover of Kit Marlowe. I liked her better, LOL.

You have given me impetus to finish my Ren-Faire set romance though. I have a diverse cast of character because that Faire is pretty darn diverse, being in SoCal and all.

[Laurel]

TheFountainPenDiva wrote: "I have cousins on my grandmother's side of the family who are dark-skinned and have greenish-hazel to green eyes. As far as we know, they're from some distant Celtic ancestors and the gene tends to..."

Nice brain storm, milady, but it does not remote fit into anything close to what this trilogy arc entails. :)


Here's the revision with some further progress on the scene:


Lady Marion, an athletic woman 53 cun tall with sultry brown skin and emerald eyes appeared from behind three grills, all cooking different types of meat and vegetables, her green camp tunic covered in a long white apron, “We’re almost ready to eat. If someone would be so kind to help me plate this and pour the tea into pitchers, supper will be served in just a moment.”

Without a word, Princess Anyu glided over to the grills to help. Picking up a platter, she held it flat close to Lady Marion, making it easy for the expert chef to smoothly and effortlessly migrate skewered beef and grilled corn on the cob to the first platter, then tomatoes and peppers to the second platter while Geoffrey filled the adjacent pitchers – some with tea and others will ice water.

[The FountainPenDiva, Old school geek chick and lover of teddy bears]

I like it. I take 'cun' is a measurement you created for your world? I kept thinking centimetres for some reason.

The reason I mentioned my family with the green eyes is to let you know it does exist-though rare-in real life. Besides which, Storm of the X-Men has blue eyes and white hair.

[Nadine]

I like the revision and I appreciate the honesty and your desire to ask questions and be open to the answers.

By the way I also come from a family of AA with green/hazel/light brown eyes, grandma had green eyes and it filter down through the generations it seems to pop up more in the males though.

[Laurel]

http://www.peersofbeinan.com/QR-page-...

Yes, cun 寸 is a unit of length. "cun" (pronounced CHOO- UN) is the Chinese "inch" unit. Beinarian cun equal 1.25 inches. There's a table on the QR page relating English inches to Beinarian 寸 units.

I just added units of weight (because that came up in chapter one of book three).

Generally I take pre-metric weights/measures, then round the values out to create the Beinarian versions.

The whole Beinarian weights/measures was inspired by watching original series Battlestar Galactica; it was something Galactica did VERY effectively that, IMHO, made the series more believable.

I have lots of peeves about sci fi. :)

[Ayesha]

I like the rewrite, it's good. And you've got me interested in your series, too.