Laurie R. King Virtual Book Club discussion
What Are You Reading Today? -(v2.0)
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Ack, Erin! I saw this book and it looked so intriguing. You mean the mystery in the synopsis is never explained? I had no idea that this was considered good literature. It sounds more like an incomplete story to me... Still, now I'm sort of interested to see how an author could pull this off. "
Sabrina: Second comment (since I left one on the old thread before remembering I was going to make a new thread =P): I think that's maybe what makes this book so hit or miss. I think exactly half the people I know who've read it thought it was amazing and gave it five stars; the other half thought it was terrible and gave it one or two stars (if they finished it at all). Kind of a gamble of a book, I guess, but if you're one of the people who ends up loving it, you've found yourself a new author to add to your favorites shelf.
Count me as one of the ones that loved In the Woods. Yes, the ultimate mystery isn't resolved but it was a wonderful read and I cared about the characters. It has been awhile since I read it but if memory serves, the unresolved mystery is an old one and the newer one is resolved. But I may be wrong about that.
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I've broken a personal rule and went back to the first book in a series immediately after reading the second one. I mentioned in the previous thread that I was reading City of Secretsby Kelli Stanley. I loved the protagonist, PI Miranda Corbie, so much that I am now reading City of Dragons. I wanted the background about Miranda that had been left out of the second book. I normally don't read two books in a row in the same genre, let alone the same series because I don't want to get burned out. I don't think that's going to happen with Miranda Corbie. For one thing, I can't go on to the third book yet because it's just going to be released tomorrow. But I think I've discovered a new series addiction.
I am trying to read as many books for Bouchercon as I can. I just finished The Haunting of Maddy Clare by Simone St. James and loved this ghost story. Tonight I am starting A Lack of Temperance by Anna Loan-Wilsey. I have read so many excellent books preparing for Bouchercon and discovered some new favorite authors.
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I was thinking yesterday how similar they are, plot-wise, to Charlaine Harris' books actually. Why is it that her books are considered mysteries when other similar series are not? I suppose it's that all of the books in her series are solving murders. The series I'm reading right now is about 50/50 there so far.
I'm reading Killing Custerby Margaret Coel, a contemporary mystery with historical content taking place on the Arapaho Reservation. I received this copy in advance of publication from the publisher for review. I like this series because of the setting and the central characters--Catholic priest John O'Malley who is very dedicated, and Arapaho attorney Vicky Holden who often allows herself to get drawn into pro bono cases on behalf of Arapahos in trouble.
I also like the historical content that is often featured in these novels. My favorite is
The Spirit Woman which involves Sacajawea. This particular one involves the murder of a re-enactor who plays the role of Custer.
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I'm reading Gone Girl by Gillian Flynn and Dare Me by Megan Abbott right now. It's interesting how similar their writing styles are. Maybe not these two books exactly, but we read Sharp Objects by Gillian Flynn a while back for discussion here at the VBC and the characters and style and just overall vibe of that book is super similar to Megan Abbott's book. The unreliable narrator; the rowdy (and sociopathic) teen girls; the older young woman ensnared and drawn back to and by the teen indiscretions. And maybe it's because I already read Sharp Objects, but I think I can see where this one is going too.
Has anyone else noticed how many sociopathic teen girls there are in suspense lately? This is like the third or fourth book I've read featuring this type of character and while it was shocking and surprising the first time, I'm not all that surprised anymore. Plus, the whole teen world that's depicted in these books just seems to completely unreal; nothing like what I remember in school (though I was admittedly a geek attending a magnet school, so maybe we were the odd ones out in the teen world).
I just finished Charles McCarry's Shelley's Heart: A Thriller. McCarry writes mostly espionage novels, but this one, like its prequel The Better Angels, is a political novel, although espionage is a plot element. McCarry is deeply cynical about both politicians, particularly of the far left, and journalists, although individuals of both types become heroes in this book. The book hypothesizes a fascinating constitutional conundrum in the wake of a presidential impeachment. Moreover, although first published in 1995, it is remarkably farsighted in its discussion of when it may be morally justifiable to target a foreign leader for assassination.
I just finished Louise Penny's How the Light Gets In and am gobsmacked. I'm not going to say anything since it has just come out and most won't have read it yet, but it is wonderful. How the light gets in is from a Leonard Cohen poem/song? which expresses that it is the cracks, the mistakes, the missteps, that allow the light to get in or in other words, allow the presence of grace. I love that vision.
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Just wanted to add that I, too, read How the Light Gets In and loved it. The first line in my review stated, "I am spent," which expresses just how emotionally involved I was with it. I am a huge Louise Penny fan and am so excited about meeting her at Bouchercon. I have a review up for this book on my FB page, if anyone is interested. I try hard not to include any spoilers in my review, but with a series, there are sometimes hints at events that have gone before.
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Everyone I know who has read this has raved about it, so I think I'm going to have to read this even though, unlike pretty much everybody in this group, I have not been wild about Louise Penny's books.
I just started Louise Penny's How the Light Gets In. Loving it so far!
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Well, if you didn't like Bury Your Dead, then you probably won't like this one, Lenore. But you never know!
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2...
I'm not..."
I'm glad she doesn't write it in French! I'd be clueless. I think it's assumed most are speaking in French unless otherwise indicated. At least twice, in this newest book, it specifically mentioned that the speaker rephrased their question in English.
At least one of the books have addressed the French/English speaking prejudices and resulting cultural divide, which I found very interesting, because I had no idea all that went on in Quebec. Seems a silly thing, but then, prejudice is always destructive.
I'm reading How the Light Gets In, too. I got burned out reading all the Inspector Gamache books in one fell swoop last year, and I swore Louise Penny wasn't going to ever again put me through the Surete intrigue-without-answers...but I couldn't resist going back (for the hot chocolate, right?). Midway through the book, my heart actually started pounding. I can't believe what Penny is managing to do in this book.
I can see how her writing style would not work for everyone. There are some books that many here have raved about and there I am going "meh." But I will say if you like Penny's books at all, this is a must read. There are some dangling threads from previous books that do get tied up, so read it for that if nothing else.Farmwife - If she had written all the French bits in French, there would be very few English readers who would have been able to read it. She does seem to make it clear that it is, in fact, French being spoken much of the time while still writing in English. But then, I'm very removed from the issues of language and sovereignty issues of Quebec.
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Total tangent: I think you're really going to like LRK's new one for the sense of place and time. But then, that's always been one of her specialties as a writer, imo.
I can't put my finger on what I don't like about Louis Penny's books. I read the first one and was hard-pressed to even finish it so I haven't bothered with any of her other books. I think it was a combination of the characters being completely oblivious of the plot and the mystery coming across as superfluous to the characters anyway. I'm too much of a plot driven reader to be okay with that.
Erin, I just wanted to say that Louise Penny's first book was not my favorite. I think her books improved dramatically after that one, with the sense of place becoming a major draw for me. I am a huge fan of her writing, but I will concede to you about that first in the series. I hope you have the time to try her others someday. Oh, and I do agree with you about LRK's sense of time and place being spectacular.
I seem to be unable to return books to the Library without checking out at least one! In spite of reading Touchstone and Parting the Waters I couldn't resist What Changed When Everything Changed: 9/11 and the Making of National Identity by Joseph Margulies. Who is JAK?
I'm reading 'A Letter of Mary'. I'll add a short comment - I RARELY read fiction, thinking that non-fiction is a better use of my time when learning something new. Well, The Mary Russell stories a GREAT use of my time, as I am enjoying them so much. And, my husband (the scientist who usually only reads books about politics and science, but LOVES Sherlock Holmes stories) heartily suggested the whole series to me! Thank you for all of your hard work, Laurie King. You have helped my overworked husband and myself relax and enjoy some great books.
Picked up Bones of Paris today and impulsively also bought the new Woodrow Wilson bio by A. Scott Berg.
Good Afternoon, It will be a pleasure to be part of this community. I am looking forward to reading BONES OF PARIS soon.
I have one question that I can't answer. In the BKA, I can't follow the order of events that causes Mary to get shot in the shoulder toward the end of the book. Would someone with better tracking skills kindly walk me through it?
I have enjoyed all of the MR series. My favorites being BKA and LOCKED ROOMS.
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Hi, Norah, and welcome to the VBC! Someone else asked this very same question on the Letters_Of_Mary Yahoo group (a Holmes and Russell fanfiction site). Here was my answer and everyone seemed to be in agreement:
As I understand it (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) the first bullet that Donleavy fired hit Holmes, bruising his rib and taking a flap of skin with it. The shock and impact of such an injury would give even Holmes a few moment's pause. It doesn't specify, but he might have thrown himself to the side, off his chair, or the impact could have knocked him back.
Russell launched herself at Donleavy, where a struggle ensued, as Russell tried to turn the pistol from Holmes. Given that the entry wound was in her back and this statement of 'something slipping and my left hand holding a hot, empty palm just as a third and completely deafening explosion went off beside my head' I THINK that Russell managed to loosen Donleavy's grip on the pistol and it fell, making it go off, which is not an uncommon thing with pistols, as shown from numerous accidental shooting deaths.
Sabrina wrote: "Norah wrote:I have one question that I can't answer. In the BKA, I can't follow the order of events that causes Mary to get shot in the shoulder toward the end of the book. Would someone with bette..."I interpret the event a little differently than does Sabrina (with whom I tend to agree about 90+% of the time). But I am not insisting that I am right, just that I see it differently.
Russell throws the ink bottle, Donleavy fires almost simultaneously, the bottle striking causes the gun to spin out of Donleavy's hand, and Russell and Donleavy both dive for the gun. Donleavy gets there first and Russell tackles her and is on top of her. Russell is pushing Donleavy's wrist away from aiming at Holmes, and Donleavy perceives that she can no longer hit Holmes (he has surely moved from where he was as Russell tackled Donleavy), nor get out from under Russell, so she turns her hand to point the gun down at Russell - necessarily at somewhat of an oblique angle - and fires down and across Russell's body, hitting Russell's neck on her right side and the bullet continuing into Russell's right shoulder (and intoDonleavy's body beneath Russell). Donleavy's last thought, no doubt, was that she could hurt Holmes as much (or more) by killing Russell as by killing him. It's not clear whether she then voluntarily drops the gun or drops it because she's dead, but as the difference in time is nano-seconds, it makes no difference, and Russell is left holding Donleavy's sweaty palm and recognizing that she's been hit.
Although I recognize that pistols do go off accidentally when dropped (and here I am venturing into a topic I know very little about), I would think that they would have to be dropped onto a surface harder than a human neck a couple of feet away. Moreover, as Donleavy's arm must necessarily be at least partly outstretched on Russell's left side, I cannot imagine a way in which dropping the gun could strike Russell on the right side of her neck. For these reasons I do not accept the accidental discharge theory.
It seems to me that one or more of our members -- Anne? Richard? -- has some sort of forensic experience. Care to comment?
I will not be offended if anyone wants to disagree or tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.
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I believe I like your explanation better, Lenore! The one line confused me, making it seem that the shot fired after the gun fell: something slipping and my left hand holding a hot, empty palm just as a third and completely deafening explosion went off beside my head
But on reading it again, the 'JUST as a third' part could very well indicate almost simultaneously, or indicate a delay in the discharge sound.
Sabrina wrote: "Norah wrote:I have one question that I can't answer. In the BKA, I can't follow the order of events that causes Mary to get shot in the shoulder toward the end of the book. Would someone with bette..."This whole discussion has led me to a new question that I never before considered. Once the third shot goes off, leaving Russell seriously wounded, how does Holmes get medical help for Russell? We know that Mrs. Hudson and a guard Holmes left are drugged to unconsciousness, because Donleavy said so, and we know she has cut the phone line from the cottage. Even if Holmes knew how to drive, he has no car and Russell's is in the barn at her farm. Donleavy must have been dropped off by one of her minions, because if Holmes and Russell had seen a car they would have been alerted to her presence. Clearly, time was of the essence in getting help for Russell. What did Holmes do?
Because I know better than to raise such a question with this group without at least attempting an answer, my thought was this: Holmes has neighbors relatively close by, including the fellow who runs a taxi service. Presumably Holmes applied pressure bandages to at least slow the bleeding, then ran to the neighbor's house, pounded on his door, and had him drive back to the cottage, where they put Russell in his car and drove for medical help.
I'm not crazy about this solution, but it's the best I can do. Anyone have a better idea?
Did Mary have her Morris at this point? I remember a hair-raising drive across country but don't recall the exact book. Holmes does drive later in LETT and I believe he might have in the canon story LAST (His Last Bow). So if her car was available he could have driven her to hospital.
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In BEEK, before Holmes and Russell left her flat in Oxford, Holmes stopped to use Mr Thomas' telephone. During the drive to Sussex when they are discussing their plan of action, he tells Russell:
"Oh, very well. My telephone call was to Mycroft, asking him to bring a few of his most discreet individuals into the area after dark tonight. Last night there were too many people coming around my cottage to allow your Miss Donleavy to make her move, but today my medical friend will announce that I am recovering and need peace and quiet.
His medical friend was a doctor who had connexions with Mycroft and was in on the ruse of Holmes coming down with 'pneumonia'. I always assumed that the doctor was close by and Mycroft's men were in position and heard the shots.
Holmes also mentioned that Donleavy had pulled all of his watchers out of Sussex. I'm not sure how Donleavy got to the cottage though.
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If memory serves, they had left the Morris at Russell's farm in the barn, which was seven miles away.
Sabrina wrote: "Lenore, I know there has been one or two really good fanfiction pieces on LOM that went into detail on what Holmes did afterwards. In BEEK, before Holmes and Russell left her flat in Oxford, Hol..."
That makes perfect sense. I'd forgotten about the phone call. Mycroft's men, presumably having heard the shot and rushed to the scene, would have had transport nearby, possibly the doctor with them, and possibly even radio communication.
My thinking is that Donleavy probably beat Mycroft's men to the cottage, since she was already in the neighborhood. She either walked from nearby or, more likely, had a confederate who drove her, helped her to subdue Mrs. Hudson and the guard Holmes left, and then drove away.
Hi everyone, Erin asked that I come over and add my "expertise" as somewhat of a Kanon detail queen to this discussion.I quite agree with Lenore's explanation of the events. Russell dives at Donleavy, grabbing the gun with her strong left hand, as she is on top and Donleavy is right handed. The struggle ensues and IMHO Donleavy decides to kill Russell and possible herself with one shot. She pulls the trigger when Russell has forced the gun away from Holmes but then Donleavy points it downward toward Russell. The bullet enters the back of Russell's neck on the left side (missing the spinal cord as Watson notes) travels from Russell's left side to her right clavicle, shattering same as it exits and goes into Donleavy's heart.
As to the events afterwards, they are pure speculation. I will add that in JUST Russell mentions a retired doctor who lives in the vicinity, Dr. Amberley, who she also calls "Holmes' pet medical man." If Holmes needed medical help in a crisis he would probably call upon Dr. Amberley. As it has been pointed out, the Morris is in the barn at the farm. If Mycroft's men arrived after the events, they would have transportation and could have driven Holmes and Russell to the Doctor, or to the nearest medical facility. All we do know is that Russell ended up in a hospital, and that the doctors were not pleased when she wanted to go back to Holmes' cottage because they "...disliked the distance, the remoteness, and the poor road I would have to travel." BEEK Given that, I would speculate that Russell got immediate medical care from Dr. Amberley then was transported to the hospital.
Erin wrote: "I picked up a bunch of the Anthony nominated books from the library since we'll have the opportunity to vote on them at BoucherCon in two weeks.I'm reading Gone Girl by Gillian Flynn and Dare Me ..."
I'm very glad you said this--I was nervously thinking it was American teen girls (from pre Bouchercon reading before coming over) but now I'm seeing it's a 'mystery movement'
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Wright wrote: "Hi everyone, Erin asked that I come over and add my "expertise" as somewhat of a Kanon detail queen to this discussion.I quite agree with Lenore's explanation of the events. Russell dives at Don..."
Hi, Alice! Good to hear from you again! I hate to nitpick when I've just been supported, but are you sure the bullet enters Russell's neck on the left? It seems to me barely possible that it could just go through the muscles as the back of the neck without hitting (and breaking) a cervical vertebra, but more likely that the angle was so oblique (imagine Donleavy's right arm stretched out, and her wrist bending to turn the gun toward Russell) that the bullet passed over Russell's body to enter the neck on the right of her spinal cord and then down into her clavicle. Of course, I'm no anatomy expert, I just look at diagrams on the Internet.
I have read 8 Mary Russell books and have just finished "The language of bees" and went right out to get "The god of the hive". I was so excited that I looked up this club and joined. Thanks for all the hard work to keep this reading club running.
Just finished Bones of Paris!!! Now reading Touchstone (group read and I need to refresh because I'm foggy on details to help with background on BofP). But now I want to read all of the Russell-Holmes again IN ORDER. Now that I have the Kindle ebooks I can read them in order.Do any of the others know the extreme frustration of reading a series from the library and having to just give up and read it out of order?
Wright wrote: "Hi everyone, Erin asked that I come over and add my "expertise" as somewhat of a Kanon detail queen to this discussion.I quite agree with Lenore's explanation of the events. Russell dives at Don..."
Hi Wright,
OK, I went to Wikipedia to look up "Kanon detail queen". I get that it is an anime series Kanon. Is there a reason to be a "detail queen"? Is it similar to me bitching about all the movie and TV details that are wrong, or that I catch ALL the continuity glitches in movies? LOL
Louise - welcome to the group, if you haven't been welcomed already! And, oh my yes! on your question about series from the library! So frustrating! Next comment on our very own Kanon detail queen - that would be Alice Wright who has been involved in the book club since its inception and has practically memorized Laurie's Mary Russell books. In fact, I do believe Laurie has asked for corroboration on details and continuity! If you read carefully, you will find Alice's name for a minor character although the character has very little in common with Alice herself. Also, this group uses Canon for the original Holmes stories and Kanon for the Mary Russell stories so as to know which Canon/Kanon we are referring to. Glad to have you here! and Jonathan as well!
Louise wrote: "...Is there a reason to be a "detail queen"? ..."Well, yes, there is. Anyone can write a story (or, for that matter, a TV or movie script) in which the details do not hang together, but the problem is that such a story will almost never be very good. When details don't hang together, the story does not seem real - because in real life, details are consistent. This is extra true in mysteries, in which the point is generally for the detective (and the reader along with him/her) to solve the mystery by the accretion of details. If the details are not consistent and cannot be reconciled, the mystery cannot be solved.
Good writers pay attention to detail. As Karen noted, LRK has asked Alice for help in insuring that details are correct from one book to the next. Similarly, J.K. Rowling (perhaps not a great literary stylist, but a fabulous plotter) has mentioned the effort involved in keeping the details consistent.
Moreover, by custom, Sherlock Holmes fans (and by extension, Mary Russell/Sherlock Holmes fans) generally participate in "The Game." in which we pretend that the stories are true, that they are records of real events that occurred to real people. As such, reconciling apparently inconsistent details - or explaining how confusing events must have actually occurred, with reference to details in the stories - is part of the appreciation of the genre. LRK herself has written a nice explanation of why, in Canon, Watson's old bullet wound sometimes pains him in different areas of his body. Without attention to detail, The Game cannot be played.
Finally, details and attention to them matter in real life. I am by profession a lawyer, and attention to the precise details of contract terms, or to the order in which certain events occurred, is crucial to the success of my clients' matters. Similarly, the precise attention to the small details of two apparently similar incidents explains why I was correctly advised by my doctor to take heartburn medicine and why my brother was correctly treated by his for a heart attack. Being a "detail queen" for fiction is excellent practice for the essential skill of doing it in real life.
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More often I give up on the library and end up buying the books.
Erin wrote: "Louise wrote: "Do any of the others know the extreme frustration of reading a series from the library and having to just give up and read it out of order? "More often I give up on the library and..."
Yes, to the point of buying an Out of Print book for an outrageous price!! I try not to make a habit of that!!
Erin wrote: "Louise wrote: "Do any of the others know the extreme frustration of reading a series from the library and having to just give up and read it out of order? "More often I give up on the library and..."
What was funny, Erin, is that I used the library to read quite a few books by Bouchercon authors before attending, but I ended up buying them there anyway. I'm reading Linda Fairstein's latest book from the library and have gotten caught not finished on a "hold" book, which means I pay 20 cents a day until I return it. It needs to go back tomorrow. I try to use the library, but I'm often too impatient.
What drives me crazy is when a library has some books in a series but not all. I usually try to find the book on Amazon or at a local bookstore-the local stores around me don't usually have old out of print books. I am currently reading Cold Shoulder by Linda LaPlante--the character is an alchoholic-fired from the police in LA == she is doing a great job of describing hitting bottom and I am looking forward to reading the rest of the series-plus looking forward to discussing this book at my local bookclub.
The library may have had the book you're looking for at one time but it may have (1) been lost, (2) kept long overdue, (3) fallen apart. If you buy the book and read it, why not donate it to the library so that others may enjoy?
farmwifetwo wrote: "Elizabeth wrote: "Who is JAK? "Jayne Ann Krentz/Jayne Castle/Amanda Quick http://www.krentz-quick.com/"
Thank you!
Kathy B. wrote: "Erin wrote: "Louise wrote: "Do any of the others know the extreme frustration of reading a series from the library and having to just give up and read it out of order? "More often I give up on th..."
Me too! Or 'worse' I got the books and read them on Kindle then at Bouchercon because the writers were there, ended up buying the books again and getting them autographed.
Now I'm thinking about donating some copies to the library--not because I don't want them but because they are hard cover, in good condition and maybe more people could enjoy them... but I don't know if libraries accept book donations.
Laurie R. King Virtual Book Club
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So... What are you reading today?