Outlander Series discussion

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Archived > why is it that Frank can see Jamie's ghost?

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message 1: by Cynthia (new)

Cynthia Hanna-Tarantino (ctara) | 309 comments I just wanted to ask a question to those of you who are experts regarding this series; how is it that Frank (when he is outside the B&B in the beginning of Outlander) is able to see and even attempt to touch Jamie's ghost?
Sorry, if this is a dumb question, but it has been nagging at me!


message 2: by Wendy (new)

Wendy | 259 comments It isn't a dumb question. We have all wondered the same thing. We have asked and re-asked it. But there isn't a definitive answer. Jamie tells Claire that he had a dream that he could see her inside a house brushing her hair, and he saw electric lights, he comments on how he assumed they were electric because they looked different to him. But the point about how Frank see's him and almost touches him there isn't an answer to yet. I'm hopeing that there will be one coming in the next book.


message 3: by Cynthia (new)

Cynthia Hanna-Tarantino (ctara) | 309 comments Do you recall what book Jamie describes his dream to Claire? For Frank to have seen Jamie do you think... and this may sound crazy, that maybe in some strange backwards way he was dead also? Have you ever seen Pulp Fiction? You know how the story circles back...???? This may not even make any sense!!!


message 4: by Wendy (new)

Wendy | 259 comments I understand. I have thought that maybe Jamie could travel in his dreams.

I think htat he describes the dream to her in one of the last two books.

We have speculated that Jem and Amanda (Bree's children) may have special powers. I think that could have come from Jamie. There may have been some other reason for Jamie and Claire to be together. Like some supernatural, for lack of a better word, thing.


message 5: by Cynthia (new)

Cynthia Hanna-Tarantino (ctara) | 309 comments HMMMM all verra interesting !!!! I can't remember, now why do we think that Amanda has special powers?


message 6: by Wendy (new)

Wendy | 259 comments We don't know yet. I'm not sure there was ever a reference to her having powers, but Gem is very special, so I would think that she has something special as well. Though I need to read the end of ABOSAA again. I read it just a few weeks ago, but that was a few books ago.


message 7: by Cynthia (new)

Cynthia Hanna-Tarantino (ctara) | 309 comments I have been reading DIA off and on when I have time...I'm having a hard time getting through it again. I enjoy the part about Master Raymond, but I don't want to read the area where Claire looses Faith ect...


message 8: by Wendy (new)

Wendy | 259 comments That is a hard part to read, but I think that I appreciated it more after a couple of reads.


message 9: by Renee (new)

Renee (nightbird) | 334 comments You know, I read the bit about Jamie seeing Claire in her time, but he's says she's sitting at a desk writing. I thought that was odd because Frank sees her brushing her hair and cursing.


No doubt Jamie can dream the future. He seems to have passed that on to Bree.


But as far as Frank seeing Jamie, I don't know what that was all about. I'm wondering if Jem can see Jamie and talk to Jamie? Or if he can dream and talk to Jamie. HOW many more months before Echo?!

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message 10: by Melanie (new)

Melanie Fuller (by_mel) | 4 comments I noticed the same thing Renee, he said she was writing and when Frank saw her she was definately brushing out her hair.
I have a countdown widget on my blog for anyone that wants to snag it for 'An Echo in the Bone'. it's in my sidebar!
http://novelideasbymel.com


message 11: by Wendy (new)

Wendy | 259 comments The story is so intricate that you almost get lost. Obviously if Jamie saw her writing at a desk, but he was standing out in front of the B&B while she was brushing her hair, there are two insidents. I hope there are some answers to all of these questions in Echo.


message 12: by Renee (new)

Renee (nightbird) | 334 comments What if DG just changed her mind and decided Jamie wasn't going to be a ghost? I mean, it was the first book. There were references of people being sacrificed whenever a new building was being put up. Remember the worker getting the block on his head? The blood on the steps of all the new houses? Maybe she just changed her mind about that. ;)


Cause why wouldn't he have seen Frank if he could see Claire? He saw Fiona at the manse when Bree and Roger went back in his dream.


I'd hate to think of Jamie walking about in the night looking for Claire. That would be very sad.

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message 13: by Wendy (new)

Wendy | 259 comments I think that the two incidents are separate. I don't think that he was a ghost at all, but that he may not have had that dream yet or never said anything.

I think that DG had at least the first three books mapped out when she started. I don't think she would have changed her mind. She would have tied in something that she changed her mind about somehow. She is way to detailed to mix up something like that.


message 14: by Cynthia (new)

Cynthia Hanna-Tarantino (ctara) | 309 comments Do you think that Jamie did not see Frank or he did not recognize him, it seemed like if he could see frank that he would have been startled by the resemblence to BJR?


message 15: by Melanie (new)

Melanie Fuller (by_mel) | 4 comments I've read somewhere that it will be explained in the last book. But we don't even know if Echo is the last book. It is supposed to end in the 1800's and it is 1745 I think.


message 16: by Cynthia (new)

Cynthia Hanna-Tarantino (ctara) | 309 comments I read or heard somewhere that there was another book after Echo. One can only hope!!


message 17: by Wendy (new)

Wendy | 259 comments Cynthia wrote: "Do you think that Jamie did not see Frank or he did not recognize him, it seemed like if he could see frank that he would have been startled by the resemblence to BJR?"

I hadn't thought about Jamie not recognizing Frank. Interesting. Do we even know if it was Jamie? Although it probably wad since he was watching Claire. So many Questions.

If there is going to be another book we will have to wait another 5 years to finish this thing! Arrrrggg!


message 18: by Cynthia (new)

Cynthia Hanna-Tarantino (ctara) | 309 comments I know that Diana has said that it was definitly Jamie, it seemed strange to me that Frank saw Jamie( the Ghost) but Jamie was oblivious to anyone but Claire.Hmmmmmm

Everyone will race through ECHO initially then we'll all settle down for the re-reads!!!


message 19: by Renee (new)

Renee (nightbird) | 334 comments I don't know. I thought that the first book was kind of a practice thing and DG wasn't even thinking of publishing it. So, the Jamie as a ghost thing may have to be rethought and explained differently. I don't recall Jamie having any 'future dreams' in the first three books. I know he mentions seeing Bree's birthmark or whatever it is, but I think that was in book four.



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message 20: by Cynthia (new)

Cynthia Hanna-Tarantino (ctara) | 309 comments I think you are correct Renee.....about the first book


message 21: by Wendy (new)

Wendy | 259 comments I realized later that it was definately Jamie because he had his Brooch on. Frank commented about that. really hope that there will be a tie in somewhere.


message 22: by Cynthia (new)

Cynthia Hanna-Tarantino (ctara) | 309 comments I can't wait to see how all of this unfolds...it may take me a couple of re-reads to " get it" ! lol.. The entire Time Travel thing makes my head spin!


message 23: by Mary (new)

Mary Joseph-Alvarado | 195 comments Regarding Jamie's Ghost and the fact that he tells Claire that he dreamed of her in a room brushing her hair with electric lights.... someone stated that when she was brushing her hair it was in candle light so this could not be the dream and him seeing her in 1945 but the lights went out after the ghost left and then she was in candle light.


message 24: by Christen (new)

Christen Jeschke | 1 comments I think all will be revealed in the final book. Book #10.


message 25: by MichaelCollins (new)

MichaelCollins | 819 comments I had always thought (as previously posted) that Frank encountered Jamie's ghost on Samhain night -- when the barriers between the real/material world and the ghost world were thin . There was less to impede interaction between the two worlds.

Jamie would have been long dead of course -- and Claire maybe a day away from travelling back. Could be Jamie's ghost was just doing a scouting mission before Claire travels back?


message 26: by Ann (new)

Ann (sleepyguider) | 198 comments I always think Jamie is trying to find her again. When he believes she has returned to her own time .


message 27: by Amy (new)

Amy  (themis1123) | 2 comments MichaelCollins wrote: "I had always thought (as previously posted) that Frank encountered Jamie's ghost on Samhain night -- when the barriers between the real/material world and the ghost world were thin . There was less..."

MichaelCollins wrote: "I had always thought (as previously posted) that Frank encountered Jamie's ghost on Samhain night -- when the barriers between the real/material world and the ghost world were thin . There was less..."

I think that way too. That is always thought of as the time when it is most easy to see spirits, plus Frank encountered the ghost of Jamie in a part of the world very known to Jamie, and more foreign to Frank. In other words, on the spirits home turf!


message 28: by Andrea (last edited Jun 18, 2017 07:16AM) (new)

Andrea Kollo | 23 comments Mary wrote: "Regarding Jamie's Ghost and the fact that he tells Claire that he dreamed of her in a room brushing her hair with electric lights.... someone stated that when she was brushing her hair it was in ca..."

The lights went out after Frank saw Jamie looking up at Claire in the window brushing her hair. In fact, her's was the only window lit before the lights went out.

I also thought it strange that Jamie said 'if he could go back through the stones ..." which suggested, to me at least, that at some point he had been through them.


message 29: by Andrea (last edited Jun 18, 2017 06:51AM) (new)

Andrea Kollo | 23 comments Amy wrote: "MichaelCollins wrote: "I had always thought (as previously posted) that Frank encountered Jamie's ghost on Samhain night -- when the barriers between the real/material world and the ghost world wer..."

After the witch trial, Claire told Jamie everything. He would have known that she was going to be there in 1945 and where she had stayed etc. He said he would find her, even if it took two hundreds years in purgatory. Indeed he did!

I always wondered if also wasn't his longing for her that made her walk through the stones, to the time they were together. In fact, he would have also known that the next day she would go to Craig na Dun and walk through the stones and back to him.

Probably just romantic, wishful thinking haha


message 30: by Jujubee (new)

Jujubee (goodreadscomjujubeed) | 17 comments Andrea wrote: "Amy wrote: "MichaelCollins wrote: "I had always thought (as previously posted) that Frank encountered Jamie's ghost on Samhain night -- when the barriers between the real/material world and the gho..."

Aww, Andrea...that is beautifully romantic ;) I likey your thinking!


message 31: by Andrea (last edited Jun 18, 2017 12:21PM) (new)

Andrea Kollo | 23 comments What's interesting to me is that Jamie, who appeared for a blink of an eye, standing outside of her window knew everything about her, and in fact, much much more than she even knew herself at that time. I find that fascinating!


message 32: by Andrea (new)

Andrea Kollo | 23 comments Though he was long gone in 1945 he knew that she would be returning to him the next day through the standing stones to live all they had been through. He had memory of a past that she had yet to make. Big WOW <3


message 33: by Mary (new)

Mary Joseph-Alvarado | 195 comments In one of the books Jamie tells Claire of a dream he had of her sitting and brushing her hair and the lights in the room which amazed him....he stated he is looking up at her.....remember Jamie travels through his dreams to Bree and Roger so it is possible he actually traveled to where Claire was before she actually traveled to the past.


message 34: by Cheri (last edited Jun 19, 2017 07:34AM) (new)

Cheri (cherirnhealer) | 183 comments Mary, I remember that scene too where Jamie told Claire of the dream he had of her in the brightly lit room where was brushing her hair. I don't remember which book it was. but he had traveled through time to see her after he sent her through the stones.


message 35: by Diane (new)

Diane | 1360 comments I thought that when Jamie said he saw her, with artificial light, it was writing something at a desk not brushing her hair. I can remember people debating about this and specifically said it could not be the same moment because she was brushing her hair during this scene and not writing at a desk. I could be mixed up in my memory though. Does anyone have the quote of when Jamie said this?


message 36: by Beth_A (new)

Beth_A Warren | 78 comments I'm just rereading the first book now. In the book she travels through the stones during Beltane, not Samhain--she travels through during Samhain in the TV show. I think Jamie said he saw her writing at a desk.


message 37: by Anna (new)

Anna Camboim | 1 comments In my opinion, there is much more possibilities. If I am not mistaken, Geillis made her travel in 1968 and has arrived much earlier than Claire. She was already established and married when Claire arrived. It could be because she made human sacrifice, which should function like a propellant. In Claire's case, she time traveled 202 years back, but Geillis did it more. Maybe Jamie discovered some different way to time travel. However, it still remains the question of his disappearance, when Frank saw him. Or its a combination of time traveling and ghosts...


message 38: by Beth (new)

Beth MacCabe | 48 comments I believe it may be Jamie's spirit waiting for Claire, which would explain his quick disappearance. I am on book 5 so just a guess.


message 39: by Tracy (new)

Tracy (tracylemos) | 39 comments Hi everyone, the book where Jamie tells Claire of the dream is A Breath of Snow and Ashes. I happened to have just listened to that part yesterday on my audiobook!


message 40: by Tina (new)

Tina | 1 comments My question is this, why did Claire never tell Jamie what frank saw.?
Frank tells Claire what he saw the night before she went through the stone. He described what the man looked like...clothes etc.
So when Claire meets Jamie, wouldn’t she, at some point remember about the man Frank told her about and either ask Jamie or tell him about what frank saw?
Strange that she doesn’t mention it.


message 41: by Diane (new)

Diane | 1360 comments At the moment that Frank told Claire what he saw it was of no real importance to Claire because she had never gone through the stones. Once she did go through the stones all hell broke loose in her life so she probably never even thought of what Frank saw again. My guess is that she does not remember and never thought about it after that night.


message 42: by Beth (new)

Beth Sponzilli (bethsponzilli) | 19 comments In the show they show a sketching of Jamie in the police station when Frank was talking to a detective after she disappeared. He remembered enough to think that this man he saw looking up at the window was connected to Claire’s disappearance. So I wonder why Frank never mentions it to her? Or that she never heard about once she came back??


message 43: by Diane (new)

Diane | 1360 comments That part was only in the show not the books so DG did not write that.


message 44: by Beth (last edited Oct 25, 2017 04:26PM) (new)

Beth Sponzilli (bethsponzilli) | 19 comments I wonder why they put it in the show.


message 45: by Mary (new)

Mary Joseph-Alvarado | 195 comments Beth wrote: "I wonder why they put it in the show."
Actually the appearance of Jamie's Ghost is in the book on page 14 of the mass media book....Frank describes the encounter to Claire and describes the Running Stags Brooch on the Highlander in Full Highland regalia. So the ghost is in the books and in the series.


message 46: by Diane (new)

Diane | 1360 comments Oh yes, I know the ghost is in the books. I meant what is not in the books is the part where they show a sketching of Jamie in the police station, when Frank was talking to a detective after she disappeared. The writers of the show added many Frank parts which allowed the viewers to get a fuller understanding of what he was going through. I think they did this because 1. DG has always said her readers had misinterpretations about Frank that she did not intend (this was her first book so maybe not fully written as she imagined the character) and 2. Tobias is such an awesome actor they wanted more of him in the show.

For the most part I have enjoyed the added Frank parts because it gives me a fuller perspective. I know a lot of the fans are frustrated with them because they stray from the origional story.


message 47: by Cheri (new)

Cheri (cherirnhealer) | 183 comments Diane wrote: "At the moment that Frank told Claire what he saw it was of no real importance to Claire because she had never gone through the stones. Once she did go through the stones all hell broke loose in her..."
Diane, I agree with you. I don't think Claire linked what Frank had told her about seeing a ghost. I think that Diana didn't think to link Jamie's ghost intentionally somewhere else. When she wrote this she had no idea that her books would become an international success with a huge fan base that has taken on a life of its own.


message 48: by Lorinda (new)

Lorinda Cockrell (rindalovestoread) | 54 comments I want to see what Frank found as he researched Jamie Fraser,
Claire Beachamp Randle Fraser, etc, etc.!!!!


message 49: by Parker (new)

Parker | 108 comments Cheri, I think I remember reading somewhere (perhaps in The Outlandish Companion I) that she will deal with Jamie's Ghost in the last book.


message 50: by Parker (new)

Parker | 108 comments Lorinda wrote: "I want to see what Frank found as he researched Jamie Fraser,
Claire Beachamp Randle Fraser, etc, etc.!!!!"

Now THAT would be interesting! Perhaps that's what lead him to believe her?


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