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Theories, Hypotheses and Conspiracies
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Kathleen
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Oct 23, 2014 01:58PM
The Circle could put out an APB on those rogue initiates as they once did on Cassie. The Circle was formed to protect the Ourobouros spell and it is their job to protect the Pythia.
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Remember Micea saying, "Of course we have a bond, Dulceata. You are my wife"? I figure he was lying again to manipulate her.Mircea knows Cassie longs to belong, to have a family. He also knows she is honest and honorable. That's why he plays the " wife" card, playing on her emotions.
But he is a mind reader and hides that fact from her as well as the "public" and the seidr spell placed on Cassie by Artemis greatly augmented his ability.
But there is no "bond" created by the Bite of Claiming (or BoC, my name for it). If there were, Cassie would have known about it. And she tells us that the reason the BoC is rarely used is that it makes the master responsible for the servant's deeds (as for one of the masters vamp "children"), but DOES NOT CREATE A BOND that would allow the master to control the human servant (like a vamp).
But Cassie is not an ordinary human; she is more powerful, perhaps more so than Mircea in some ways. I think that became real to him with the Shower Scene and so he withdrew and won't even talk on the phone with her.
Clearly power is not only the most important thing to Mircea, it is the ONLY thing...except maybe Dory, who BTW, by becoming a Senator in her own right, has become a real asset to His Princeliness.
Kristen wrote: "I had assumed Cassie just shifted to the room Mircea was in"I re-read the section where Cassie arrives at Mircea's room. Dory hears "a softer sound", then it says "I turned abruptly, because I hadn’t heard the door open. But it must have, because dinner was waiting on the threshold." I had taken 'threshold' to mean Cassie was standing right at the entrance, therefore the door must have been open, but maybe it actually means she was just inside, because it does seem odd that Dory would hear a small sound, yet she didn't hear the door open. The reason I'd got it in my head that Cassie wouldn't shift straight to Mircea's room was that I'd assumed the Consul's house is warded all over for intruders. I remember from CtD that MAGIC's defences fired up when Cassie, Pritkin and Caleb shifted in, and light fixtures and chandeliers were attacking them. I didn't think the Consul would have anything less at her own house, therefore Cassie arriving unannounced would trigger an alarm somewhere, and a bunch of angry vamps would arrive in short order. If Cassie had only just arrived when Dory turned, she's there for literally seconds before shifting away again. Maybe she never returns again?
About Cassie's relationship with the Circle, I agree completely that they are out of line. My inner feminist is furious at the way she's treated. However, I think those guys are just chancing their luck. They're like small children pushing against the boundaries to see exactly what they can get away with, and they're used to being in a position of some power with the Pythias (well, so they believe anyway. Agnes didn't tell them the half of it!) I loved it when Cassie cracked the whip at Jonas. I think he's learned a lesson.
Does anyone have any ideas about how the Myras storyline might work out? Surely it's unlikely to be about tampering with someone's birth or conversion to vampirism again? And I wouldn't have thought they'd risk mucking up the timeline completely, because that could hurt them as much as Cassie. Who might they attack or interfere with? Anyone got any thoughts? I keep thinking about the inconsistencies with Artemis's story again ...!
Wait! It doesn't say that Cassie shifts away. It says she shifts *Dory* away. We don't know how long Cassie stayed.What do you mean "Cassie cracked the whip at Jonas? Are you talking scout the almost end of TtS? I thought the coven leaders slapped him down.
I think Cassie still needs some more back bone work on crapping the whip. Is it the part where she tells Jonas sternly "Don't ever keep anything from me again", or something like that? Damn Cassie look at you go...and to think Jonas could of ended up in a cow pie. I don't even know what to think about the Myra's storyline, because Myra made Cassie look pretty clumsy Cassie's was strong in power though we didn't really see it with Myra, but Myra was smarter more devious, clever, all those things, including evil. Cassie even being pythia didn't even come close to taking on Myra alone, I hope she's a lot better this go round because now there are five of them with all those qualities. At least Myra hadn't killed children. I hope Cassie is more proactive and doesn't wait around to fix this problem, I'm thinking whatever the Myra's try to do with changing time Cassie's power will give her a warning or a heads up and take her to where they are. Especially if these girls are all running around mucking up things simultaneously to confuse Cassie, unless Cassie can learn to be in more places than one, kind of how she found out she doesn't need Billy to babysit her body if she times coming back to it at the same time, it'll be like her spirit never let and no one will notice she was gone. I hope chasing these rogues doesn't take up the whole book I'm kind of sick of them as bad guys already.Okay so how much of Cassie's power came from Apollo and being the pythia? She still hasn't figured out how or what all she can do it that area, the only time I saw her use the power pass down from her mother was linking the demon realms, I don't know if when she fought the son of Ares and turned the dragon man to dust if that was pythia power of Artemis's death move? And the power she got from her father I assumed was when she was moving around Jules flesh when he was cursed, but then the pythia power turning him back to human. I guess she could of inherited only a few things from one parent, but I assumed she would be able to do both. We don't know if she has a longer life span, but it would be cool if she learned how to heal herself/injuries.
Kathleen wrote: "Wait! It doesn't say that Cassie shifts away. It says she shifts *Dory* away. We don't know how long Cassie stayed."Cassie has to go along too. She can't wave her hand and Dory ends up in a field. She has to take her there. Cassie clearly doesn't linger once she's dumped Dory, but she definitely had to leave Mircea's room to get Dory to the field. I was speculating that perhaps Cassie is angry with Mircea after seeing Dory at his bedside, and doesn't return to his room afterwards.
What do you mean "Cassie cracked the whip at Jonas?
Quote from Tempt the Stars:
"Jonas!" He stopped, and looked at me. And something on my face must have registered, because he stopped whatever it was he'd been about to say. "Never keep something like this from me again. Never."I interpreted that as Cassie laying down the law. Did you see it differently?
Kristen wrote: "Cassie even being pythia didn't even come close to taking on Myra alone"I think things have changed a bit since Cassie's run-in with Myra. Cassie was very, very new to the power at that stage and also for much of the first book, she couldn't quite believe that Myra was evil. Even well into the second book, Cassie still wanted to give her second chances. I don't think Cassie will feel that way now, especially after the scenes at the Pythian Court at the end of Tempt the Stars. I think Cassie's big problem will be that she's outnumbered. Individually, she's going to be much stronger than any of the Myras, but with five of them running around causing havoc, things could get tricky.
I hope chasing these rogues doesn't take up the whole book I'm kind of sick of them as bad guys already.
LOL, that made me smile!
I guess it's all down to what KC does with the storyline. If it's Cassie chasing rogues through time and throwing them in canals or whatever, it could get tiresome, but if it's worked in to an ongoing plotline, it could be revealing.
But I'm wondering if the Myras storyline may not be a huge factor in RtW. The rogues might be tied to the 'Return of Ares' plot, and it might only lay the groundwork in this book, for a final confrontation in some future novel. Pritkin's rescue is going to dominate a fair chunk of RtW, and KC has said Mircea will be in the book much more, so maybe there isn't an awful lot of time left for chasing rogues. But I dunno. You'd think there would be some follow-up to the final scenes at the Pythian Court.
Okay so how much of Cassie's power came from Apollo and being the pythia?
Cassie's affinity with ghosts possibly comes from her father, and her clairvoyance from her mother, but I thought everything else was connected to being Pythia. I believed the healing of Jules was 100% Pythian power, since she 'regressed' him back in time. We saw her doing similar experiments with apples in Hunt the Moon. She talked about how Agnes could 'age' an apple till it withered away, then regress it to a pip. I thought it was more or less the same principle being applied to Jules.
No, Cassie did *not* have to go with Dory. Have you forgotten the incident in HtM when she shifted the obnoxious PR guy, Niall (who later turned out to be Spartoi), out into the desert? He just disappeared, poof!I did not recall the Jonas incident till reminded.
Yes, Cassie has made huge progress in just 3 months.
And @Kristin, Cassie did heal herself from the verge of death from multiple broken bones and massive internal injuries after killing the dragon Niall in HtM. Pritkin just supplied the energy.
Kathleen I have to reread TTS I don't remember the broken bones or injuries I just thought she lost too much of her life energy, and had been away from her body too long, without her body having a spirit it was dying.
She had just fallen from several storeys high. Most falls from 3 storeys are fatal and many from 2 storeys are. She fell from 5 storeys or more, as I recall (figuring 10 ft per storey). Almost any other human would have died.
The broken bones and internal injuries are a given with a fall like that.
Kathleen wrote: "No, Cassie did *not* have to go with Dory. Have you forgotten the incident in HtM when she shifted the obnoxious PR guy, Niall (who later turned out to be Spartoi), out into the desert?"You're right. I'd forgotten all about that guy. Huh, so Cassie didn't have to leave Mircea at all. I was kinda hoping she'd leave with Dory, then go back to Vegas in a huff. Hopefully the next scene then is Cassie slowly strangling Mircea in his sick bed!
1. Maybe Roger and Liz were collecting and saving up energy to fight Ragnarok.2. Because maybe she foresaw it and they came up with a scheme for winning.
3. Could there be a clue in Roger's saying he had planned to stay in Guy Fawkes's era?
4. Did we discuss that he and Artemis might have a scheme to get their bodies back, perhaps in Faerie?
5. Could Roger be Fenrir ad well as Garm? Or do you think Fenrir might be one of the werewolves, such as Cyrus?
I think I remember reading something similar to your question 5 in a KC Q&A. I just don't remember exactly what it was.I haven't thought that Roger and Artemis could of been planning to use that energy he took from the black circle as well as any other energy they stored to fight Ragnarok, but anything's possible at this point where they're concerned.
I still find the fact that a thug like Tony and his boys were able to kill Roger and Artemis when so many others failed. I mean Roger outsmarted the black circle, was in the guilt, and kept ahead of the sons of Ares when they were chasing Artemis, and Artemis is a goddess who no other being had been able to stop or take down, weakened or not. I assume her and Roger do have a plan, one that's a few steps ahead of everyone else. She was stronger then any pythia, so maybe she could see far enough in the future to know what happened, if she could ask her power a question to show her different possible future outcomes?
Kathleen wrote: "1. Maybe Roger and Liz were collecting and saving up energy to fight Ragnarok."How do you think they might use that energy?
Could there be a clue in Roger's saying he had planned to stay in Guy Fawkes's era?
Yeah, there's probably something here that we aren't figuring out. Just part of the general weirdness all round that is Roger and Artemis.
Did we discuss that he and Artemis might have a scheme to get their bodies back, perhaps in Faerie?
It's come up before. I wondered if maybe, at the end of the story, Roger and Artemis will 'retire' to Faerie, where they'll be corporeal, and Cassie can visit them whenever she likes. That's a very HEA type of ending, so I don't know if it'll happen. It's also perfectly possible that Cassie's final godly battle has some sort of ramifications for the world at large and 'closes off' access to the other dimensions. If anyone could screw up the universe, it'd be Cassie! :D
Could Roger be Fenrir ad well as Garm? Or do you think Fenrir might be one of the werewolves, such as Cyrus?
Some interpretations of Norse mythology do indeed have Garm and Fenrir as the same person. However, Roger Palmer is not a god, and KC confirmed that in a Q & A, so wouldn't that rule him out? I found a couple of Q & As from KC that touch on this, and I've copied the relevant parts below.
I’m confused, is Cassie a Goddess now? I mean her mother was a Goddess, and her father was what? I thought her father was her mother’s companion that she had forever, so is he God? Immortal? Does that make Cassie a Goddess or half a Goddess?So Fenrir must also be a child of a god, like Cassie? Whilst we don't know anything about Roger's parentage, KC says flat-out that he's not a god, and that answer would be a bit misleading if he turned out to be a demi-god!
Cassie’s father is an interesting individual with a very unusual back-story. But no, he isn’t a god. He is a magical human, like Jonas or Caleb or any of the other mages you’ve seen. Rag (or Garm as his name is translated in Old Norse) was a protector of the goddess Hel, and that is the function Cassie’s father served in this book. As Jonas said, the old legends contain truth, but have to be interpreted. This is my interpretation of that part of the story. You’ll learn more about him in future books.
Is Ragnarok finished, because Jonas said it had to do with the Loki’s three kids fighting against the Gods of War? (Jormungandr – Apollo, Cassie – the five Spartoi and the three children of Loki, the wolf Fenrir was shackled by Odin but eventually escaped and killed him).
I think perhaps you might want to go back and read what Jonas told Cassie again. Despite his somewhat…quirky…delivery, he does end up explaining things pretty well. Basically, Ragnarok includes three great battles: one against Thor/Apollo, one against Tyr/Ares and one against Odin/Zeus.
In each of those battles, a helper to the magical community is promised by legend: Jormugandr in the fight against Thor, Hel in the fight against Tyr, and Fenrir in the fight against Odin. Those three helpers are the three “children” of Loki, who was the god of chaos in the old Norse legends. Chaos, in this case, meaning free will, instead of the strict control the rule of the gods would impose. In any case, we’ve only had two battles, (one against Apollo himself, and one against the children of Ares, who were standing in for their sire). So no, Ragnarok is not over yet.
I think it's suggestive that KC introduced a whole side-story about werewolves. Why do that if they aren't going to become relevant?
Kristen wrote: "I still find the fact that a thug like Tony and his boys were able to kill Roger and Artemis when so many others failed."Yeah, I agree. The whole thing is odd. And yet, you can't rule out pure unlucky chance. Artemis's power was just about spent. Maybe she lost the ability to time-travel or have visions or whatever? There would be a certain irony in having her dedicate her life to looking into the future in order to protect humanity, only to be destroyed by a car bomb that she never saw coming.
But Jormungandr was a spell, not a god. So far, we have seen Ragnarok play out sort of symbolically or metaphorically.
Kathleen wrote: "But Jormungandr was a spell, not a god."Yeah, that's a fair point. I was forgetting that LOL!
It's interesting that Artemis has been strongly connected to two of the fights so far, e.g. she originally created the Ouroboros spell, and she was the initial target of the Spartoi. Maybe it would make narrative sense for the third battle to involve her too, rather than introducing a brand new character, so Roger could be a prime candidate for Fenrir.
However, there's the part about Fenrir dying afterwards, where he is supposed to be killed by one of the sons of Odin. Any ideas how this could fit? (It's also quite possible KC won't include that part in her interpretation of the story). We know Roger is killed in a car bomb planted by Jimmy the Rat. Is Jimmy connected in some way to Odin? The weird sticking point for me (which makes my head hurt just thinking about it) is that Roger was already dead by about twenty years before Ragnarok officially kicked off. I know with time travel this, ahem, minor obstacle can be explained away, but it starts to get awfully confusing.
I'm still edging towards Fenrir being one of the shapeshifters. It doesn't need to be a character that KC has introduced already in the Lia stories, but they're probably from that background.
That would be interesting since I haven't read any of the Lia shorts, and we haven't really met any werewolves or shapeshifers in the Cassie series except for the rats. So far we've had gods, demigods, demons, vamps, and mages, but curiously Cassie hasn't met any others, maybe there's a reason for that so far?
There was the spiel about ware wolves and Vamps being oil and water when she 'met' Sebastian in wolf form when at MAGIC for the first time - they passed him in the corridor on the way to the rooms and I think it was LC that greeted him (why would LC know him being from the European senate??). She mentioned then that she had met another one sometime during her time at Tony's (can't quite remember the details). - mergh - Just doing a re-read of the Cassie series and every deviation or extra bit of info outside the direct storyline I keep wondering if it is one of those hints.
@Kristen. When Cassie was first taken to the Senate meeting hall, on their way back upstairs, the encountered Sebastian, the head of his clan and the chief of all werewolves in his wolf form on the stairs.He turns out to be the brother of Lia's love interest, Cyrus. I don't think they were introduced, but she saw him, up close and furry---and big!
Oops, sorry, Karen, I had not read your much better answer before I commented.
Kristen wrote: "That would be interesting since I haven't read any of the Lia shorts, and we haven't really met any werewolves or shapeshifers in the Cassie series except for the rats. So far we've had gods, demig..."There were shapeshifters at the beginning of Fury's Kiss too, when Dory wakes up in that weird lab. She and LC were attacked by a bunch of shifters. Dorina senses them change, so I'm assuming they're proper shifters and not one of the Black Circle experiments.
These guys aren't candidates for Fenrir, since they seem to be on the side of evil, but it's another instance of shapeshifters being introduced to the story.
What if Artemis and Roger somehow faked their deaths so things would stop looking for them?Artemis knew that Cassie grew up OK and became Pythia (Remember London?), so she didn't have to hang around.
Maybe it's all part of The Plan.
I wonder what circumstance will bring Cassie in contact with them next. Her showing up didn't surprise Roger or Artemis, they didn't even ask why she didn't ask their present selves about how to save Pritkin, actually Roger didn't really ask too many questions at all, and Artemis seemed to already know. So maybe they think whatever plan they came up with partly worked by her being there. They certainly weren't shocked or upset about their potential deaths.
Well, she plans to go to Faerie to deal with Myra and Tony once and for all, and to get back the paperweight that supposedly holds their spirits. Maybe she'll free them, or maybe it's as a fake-out. Maybe Tony and his cut-rate mage only *thought* they imprisoned Roger's spirit in the glass sphere.
Both Pritkin (one of the greatest mages who ever lived?) and Mircea, who is also no dummy, think Roger was a pretty clever guy. And Artemis was...well...a goddess.
They knew Tony wanted Cassie as his pet clairvoyant, and that he would keep her existence a secret. In fact, he did it so well that the Spartoi didn't find out till she was already Pythia.
Doesn't Jonas confirm that their spirits are in the paperweight at the start of TtS?I think they really are dead, but maybe Artemis did foresee it and knew that it was necessary. Maybe she also saw that Cassie 'ressurects' them in Faerie?
Did he? I don't recall that he did.In any case, Cassie told him it was the paper weight that held her dad's spirit. Why would he drought he?
And how could he tell? Most mages can't see or here ghosts. He is not a necromancer. (Now Albert could, I'll bet.)
And I am guessing Clever Roger and Cagey Liz could create an illusion of spirit inhabitation if they chose. Surely if anyone could, they could.
I've copied the relevant part below, which KC handily provided on her web site!I started to try again, but Jonas grabbed my arm. “Change of plan. When you can shift, take us back to the office.”I don't know how Jonas can tell there's a spirit there, but he seems to know that there is (at least, that's how I interpreted it.)
“What? Why?”
“We have the orb,” he explained, less than helpfully.
“Isn’t that what you wanted?”
He looked exasperated. “Yes, but not to take it out of this time stream! The spirit it contains is the only thing keeping the world’s protective barrier in place. To remove it would drop that protection, exactly as our enemy wants!”
“Then hide it somewhere. Someplace where Tony can’t find it. Then we can look it up when we get back to our—”
Jonas shook his head. “We have no idea what Tony used it for between now and then.”
“To hold down papers?”
“And what else?” Jonas asked severely. “We don’t know, therefore we cannot risk removing a piece of a very delicate puzzle. We could inadvertently change history!”
I frowned. “If you’re not going to take it and you're not going to hide it, then what are we doing here?”
“I needed to see it, to know what I’m looking for. ‘Paperweight’ could mean anything—”
“I described it to you!”
“—and to verify that the vampire Antonio had not lied about your father’s fate merely to torture you.”
Which he totally would have done, I realized. Tony and I had had what you might call a suboptimal relationship. “But he didn’t.”
“No. For once, it seems, he told the truth. Which means we must return this,” Jonas said, shaking the paperweight at me, “lest Antonio realize its importance and alter his actions in the future. Then we may never find it!”
I remember the discussion, but I still don't see how he would know or sure there was a spirit in there...or whose...especially if Roger and Artemis deliberately created an illusion to fool people (and monsters).
I guess there's no absolute way to know, but I'm going to take Jonas at his word. It seems to me from the text that he's pretty sure they're in there and I personally don't feel there are enough reasons to doubt him right now.
My guess was that because the silver circle is intimately/physically joined to the spell, and hence the anchor - he was using that link to identify that the paperweight was indeed the spells anchor .... but again just my interpretation.
mmm, jumping back a few comments to the talk about wares etc - when Jimmy the rat was cornered and Cassie taunted him about being a ware and toaddieing for Tony - he replies:"There's a new order coming and a lot of things are about to change. You may be taking orders from us soon!"
Since we really haven't touched back to wares since ... you think this might be a hint as to the next Ragnarok battle, perhaps linking in to Fenrir somehow?
Jimmy's comment ties in with those shifters showing up at the start of Fury's Kiss. It shows that some of them have gone over to the dark side, and also shows a confidence in their ability to win! That also reminds me of a discussion between Cassie and Mircea, where they speculated on why Tony had joined the bad guys. Mircea was surprised, because Tony didn't generally risk his own neck, and Cassie wonders what Tony knew that they didn't. These hints are suggestive, like the bad guys have some sort of ace in the hole that we don't know about yet.I guess, with the final battle of Ragnarok looming, the Black Circle & crew are going to throw everything they have at the good guys. I keep thinking of all those cross-breeding experiments the bad guys have been doing. I feel there's going to be something more coming out of that storyline in some way. Maybe Fenrir fights some sort of mutant cross-breed? Not quite sure how that connects to a god though.
Five days without a new THC? That's way too long!So he's one: It must have dawned on Mircea that if Cassie could regress Jules to his prevampire state, she could do the same thing to the Mighty Mircea.
The really is more powerful than he is in many ways. And his princeliness may find that more than a bit off-putting,
@Lannister There is a saying among liars that you can't con an old con. The truth is that they are the easiest of all---not necessily to persuade but to fool, because they think they are sooooo smart. Tony and his gang---and many others---may have met their match.
Kathleen wrote: "So he's one: It must have dawned on Mircea that if Cassie could regress Jules to his prevampire state, she could do the same thing to the Mighty Mircea."My evil half thinks it would be hilarious if Mircea was regressed back to being a mere human!!
I wonder what would happen if Cassie tried to 'regress' a vamp against his will. Do we think she'd be protected by the 'time bubble' and the vamp wouldn't be able to drain her within seconds, as they would normally be able to? It's actually quite a precarious situation for Cassie, if this ability becomes well-known. If any vamp even suspects she might try something on them, they'll kill her or, at the very least, drain her to the point she passes out. If Mircea can drain a heavily-protected war mage through his shields in less than a minute, Cassie would have no chance.
I want to see Cleo's reaction to all of this. :D
New theory: KC has stressed how dangerous and embarrassing for the very private Pritkin to be outed as Merlin, but...Think about the huge boost to morale and prestige it would be for the Circle and their allies in the war effort if Merlin were the titular head of the Silver Circle and Commander in Chief in the war.
And remember he is a Mage Commander (not just a rank-and-file mage) despite the discrimination against him for being half demon. He could do it.
So my crackpot idea is that as soon as he and Cassie are about to get together, he'll be outed and all hell will break loose till the Circle realizes what a huge propaganda boost has just fallen into their lap.
Just been doing a reread - and had a thought regarding the whole time line confusion regarding when Roger and Artemis met as originally was thinking it would have been after Angus returned with him. During Hunt the moon, he tells Artemis that 'Cassie helped Angus bring him back' - which made me think that maybe she might have been part of the reason he was there, what if Roger wasn't part of the guild but it was actually Artemis who took him back to that time to perhaps change something that would help them survive what was coming up ....
I like it!Remember the letters C found in Liz's suitcase in HtM? Didn't the letters go back about 10 years?
So Liz/Artemis and Roger could have known each other for a long time before the elopement or even before C met R in the Guy Fawkes incident.
What if they met at the school/orphanage for magical kids?
Wild assed theory: Vampires (the first one anyway who made the old Consul that was strengthened by being in sunlight) were created by Apollo's son Asclepius. While his mortal mother, Coronis was pregnant, she fell in love with Ischys, another mortal man. When Apollo learned their secret affair, he sent his sister Artemis to kill Coronis. Indeed, Artemis burned Coronis. Thus the one who created vampires has reason to hate Artemis. which is why the Spartoi were so incredulous that Artemis was being guarded by a vampire......Of course, the opposite competing wild assed theory is that a very very powerful FAE created the vampire, (Caedmon). Take your pick, both wild assed theories, LOL.
I have been thinking for some time that Artemis might become an enemy, for lack of a better word. There are some things about her that give me creeps. But the biggest problem is the death/explosion/soul trap and the way she appeared through Cassie in TtS.- How does a goddess, who is apparently able to recognize her own daughter from the future, is unable to escape an explosion? I assume that to be able to pose in the Pythian Court as an initiate, she must have had visions, or been able to summon them, or to divine the future in another way. So, why didn't she see the explosion and save herself and Roger?
And the trap - why was Tony so hung up on trapping Roger's soul/ghost in it? The whole thing just seems too weird.
But what if she knew? What if it was part of a grand plan?
All the gods in these books are the kinds of beings that discard humans easily and consider them servants. I wonder whether Cassie's statement that Artemis grew conscience is a true statement, or if she is biased because it's the mother she lost?
Apollo wanted to use the Codex to undo the ouroboros spell. The Myras wanted to shift Ares through the barrier. But they all influenced humans to help them, promised them and gave them things that they wanted.
What if Artemis wanted to use Cassie to get back into power? She was able to, essentially, materialize into the future through Cassie. I can understand why Cassie was powering the spell - Artemis was weak at that point. She was probably even weaker at the time of the explosion. So what if Artemis decided to slip into a time bubble(the trap) and wait until her daughter grows, becomes Pythia, comes into her demigoddess power, and use that to become bigger and badder than before?
Artemis did tell Cassie she was the child of chaos and something about fate can't be undone, I really need to read that again, I assumed everything she said was referring to Cassie when she was going to see the demon council and get Pritkin back, but maybe really it was something about herself and Cassie is just an extension of that. She was kind of creepy too, she seemed stunned when Cassie showed up in the past and ended up being an important part of saving Artemis and Roger, but the rest of the times she seemed sort of blaise. Like she wasn't taking too much of an interest in her daughter. For that matter Roger didn't either, didn't even seemed slightly surprised the girl he was fighting with in the past with Agnes and then after turned out to be his daughter.Cassie hasn't really thought about her mothers overall plans or goals, I'm not sure she really truly believes Artemis did what she did because of a newfound conscious, that for some reason Artemis turned out so very different then all her fellow gods. That can be said of a lot of things though, Cassie hasn't has much time to think about, mostly just comes upon answers by accident, kind of like how she discovers how to use her power. I also wonder if there was another reason they picked Tony to hide behind, there probably were a whole slew or other vamps not much in the public eye but they picked him a child or Mircea, who ended up working with Rasputin?
I thought A meant that if you intervene to change someone else's fate, you will also change your own fate in unpredictable ways.I also thought that A seemed very detached in TtS. And Roger, who seemed affectionate to Baby Cassie seems not to accept her as an adult at all. Cold.
Yes yes that sounds about right, and mommy dear didn't tell Cassie about the spell she placed, or how to close it, and it had been putting a drain on her power, which could of been dangerous, there had to of been a reason for that. They also weren't interested really in helping their daughter, who clearly wanted/needed it, unconcerned about her worries. These other gods seemed to have had quite a few children, and reproducing with other species doesn't seem to be an issue, so why for Artemis was there only one child? Maybe fellow gods were jealous she could open the worlds to the demon realm and gain more power from such a large hunting ground and cursed her not to have children, and that's why she cut them off, for revenge? Have the last laugh, until the day her other plan came into place and returned her to full strength?
Wonderfully devious. Yet A seemed so touched during the London Spartoi chase when she finally seemed to realize who Cassie was.
Or do you suppose that meeting gave her the idea to have Cassie?
@Kathleen, that was exactly what I was thinking.Artemis was trying to escape impossible odds at the point where she first meets Cassie. And she did seem really touched. But, was she really? What if the onslaught of emotion in HtM was because Artemis realized that there is another solution-have Cassie and use her?
Cassie is underestimated by almost everyone in the book, except for a few rare people. What if A and R were detached and cold to adult Cassie, but kind and loving to child Cassie to charm her enough to love them(she has fond memories of her childhood with them), because they believe that the fond memories would serve to make adult Cassie trust them blindly?
Cassie's behavior towards Artemis in HtM would be enough proof that Cassie trusts Artemis.
Could it be both? I mean, maybe she was genuinely touched, but then later self interest took over.The gods of the European pantheons have always struck me as selfish and shallow.
So maybe her true nature won out.
Not sure about Roger, though. He doesn't seem like he could have faked affection.
Maybe it just wasn't real to him that this cute little kid would turn into the same Pythia he disliked almost as much as Agnes.
Then again, if Agnes had not changed the timeline to save Cassie, Roger would never have met her as an adult. She'd have been dead in Atlanta.
I wonder how much the original timeline lingers in the minds of some people after a timeline change...
Did we ever find out if Artemis kept being reincarnated or something? How that exactly works out since she was a baby when she was left with a note correct? I thought she'd just be very long lived and hopping identities before anyone got the wiser and started questioning what exactly she was. Or if she keeps going through human type life spans and the knowledge of her past and her and what she was is automatically engrained?And what Rogers deal is, he's powerful sure, but seems so clumsy and inept the type of person who doesn't seem to have any real aim or goals, and yet...he's the one the goddess chose, and like Tony the thug being their chosen hideout surely she had plenty of other options, some half fae long ago worshipper or hers? Roger was with the guild and also someone outsmarted and had the guts to go through the black circle, nearly draining them dry, and while they are clearly even they don't seem to be stupid, stupid and weak don't seem to last long with those folks. Did he have his own plan, and then Artemis came along and he rearranged it to serve her purposes, or was he somehow working with her all along? Where did he come from, to have that kind of power. Did Artemis "choose" him because he was just convenient at the time like we've been led to believe, when she needed to get away because her enemies were closing in?
Future time traveling was mentioned also, and I'm assuming since Artemis was the strongest with the pythian type power because of her goddess status, this would of been possible for her. I wonder if it will be possible for Cassie. We've seen Cassie able to have her power look into the future twice to choose what to do and how her actions if she changed something that happened in the past would effect the present/future, once at Rafe's sick where Dante's would of been destroyed instead of Magic and the destruction would of kept going, and another time in the cell saving the circle's prisoners. Though she hasn't used it since that I recall although it seems a handy gift.
I also still find it odd that Artemis just randomly picked off Rosier's dad when he was on his way home, not because he was one of the more powerful demons to hunt and feed off of but just because she came across him. Not that I think she wouldn't of done such a thing, and coincidence she supposedly killed off Pritkin's grand dad?
