Mockingjay
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Who else has a problem with the kids part of epilogue
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I guess I'm one of the few who found the epilogue hopeful in a tragic/bittersweet sort of way. I agree that not giving the name of the children makes it seem them, and maybe Katniss, seem rather distant. But the terror, and love, she describes in having them - that's not someone who didn't want kids - that's someone who is terrified to lose someone else she loves (a pretty realistic fear, given what's happened). Housewife? Maybe, but I guess I picture her teaching the kids to hunt and continuing to do many of the things she did before as part of the community. Do women need to be wives and mothers to be complete human beings? Of course not. Can you be a brave and independent woman while being a wife and/or a mother - I hope so!
Robert wrote: "The book was about to end. There was literally one page left. It was unnecessary to name the kids, in my opinion. Maybe if they would have named them Prim or Finnick or even Rue, maybe then it woul..."It brought to tears me, too. And in that silence about her children I saw only the huge amount of fear she had to fight to bring them to life, and all the love it took to choose to have them. I loved the epilogue more than other parts of the books, I found it so true and bittersweet as life is.
I was uncomfortable with the epilogue that stated Katniss gave birth as a means to give Peeta what he wanted. Perhaps I'm reading too deeply into this but it just sits wrong. Katniss only gives birth because she is coerced into it by Peeta's constant nagging? Granted, we are only getting Katniss' narration here, and she is writing it from a very dark place.Her words are that "it took five, ten, fifteen years for me to agree." Granted, she said "for me to agree" which can be read that she finally saw the benefit of having children. But she follows it up with "Peeta wanted them so badly" not "we wanted them" or "I wanted them" but Peeta wanted them. So why didn't Peeta adopt, or foster, or find a women with common interests? Was it Katniss' role to give Peeta what he wanted? I know he can't grow a uterus and do it himself (oh, if only that could happen!) but that doesn't mean it's her responsibility, especially when her views to not reproduce are entirely responsible.
It was an awkward ending, but the good thing was that it generated a discussion with my students.
Honestly, Annemarie I think you're reading too much into that one line.
Kelly wrote: "Honestly, Annemarie I think you're reading too much into that one line."I agree with Annemarie
I'm an ELA teacher, there's no such thing as "reading too much"
Besides that's the mark of a truly good author. She wrote a line that we can all read, and read differently. Kelly, who are you to tell someone how to read?
Ryann wrote: "Annemarie wrote: "I'm an ELA teacher, there's no such thing as "reading too much""Sometimes a line can be misunderstood though. Like, if the curtains were blue, someone might think that the autho..."
It's possible, but in my opinion, it would be even worse if she just put it there without thinking. Kinda proves my theory that she just wanted to be done with the whole thing.
Ryann wrote: "Kristina wrote: "Ryann wrote: "Annemarie wrote: "I'm an ELA teacher, there's no such thing as "reading too much""Sometimes a line can be misunderstood though. Like, if the curtains were blue, som..."
And some parts just read like a joke. I mean, Katniss moving through Capitol to reach Snow...it was like a video game or something; it just didn't come off as realistic. The war was such a big part of the story that needed to be elaborated, but we basically saw just bits and pieces of it.
Ryann wrote: "Kristina wrote: "Ryann wrote: "Kristina wrote: "Ryann wrote: "Annemarie wrote: "I'm an ELA teacher, there's no such thing as "reading too much""Sometimes a line can be misunderstood though. Like,..."
Agreed. There will be two movies, so hopefully they show all perspectives and add stuff we couldn't see as Katniss narrated.
Ryann wrote: "Annemarie wrote: "I'm an ELA teacher, there's no such thing as "reading too much""Sometimes a line can be misunderstood though. Like, if the curtains were blue, someone might think that the autho..."
I'd hate to think that Collins writes throw-away lines like Joss Whedon. And a throw-away line about giving birth seems a little unlikely. Maybe if she had Katniss opening a coffee shop or converting to veganism, but giving birth.. twice, as a throw away line? Ain't the Whedonverse.
Ryann wrote: "I just wanted to say really quick that I love how we all rated it two stars XD@Kristina
Two movies? Now that's ridiculous. They're totally just doing that to make more money. Harry Potter and Th..."
Truth be told, I had to talk myself into not giving it one star :D
Yeah, when I heard about two movies first, I also thought they don't have enough material, but if they add stuff--say like, rebels' battles to get into Capitol--maybe that even works.
I didn't love the ending, but I also didn't hate it as much as some people here clearly did. But I think you guys need to seriously get the hell over it. Collins obviously wrote it that way because that's how she believed it should have ended. It's not perfect, but nothing is. It's done now anyway, it's written how it's written and it's never going to change, so please, please. Stop your bloody complaining and get the hell over it. Live with it.
Kelly wrote: "To all the people who complain about the ending, I thought I'd share my take on it. I have always thought that the end is so abrupt because Katniss is done telling us about her time as a Tribute an..."
You are a legend.
You are a legend.
Jeni wrote: "I totally disliked it. It was like you said, plus, she couldn't even be bothered to tell us the kids' names. It's like Katniss was disconnected from everything about her relationship with Peeta. ..."Right?! I felt like she could have given us names, but she spoke like she didn't even love them. She didn't even want them in the first place. It kind of left me empty when I read it. I didn't know if I should be happy for her and her family, or feel bad for her because the Hunger Games left her like a sad shell of herself.
hated the whole book. no fighting what so ever, very confusing, and when they brake into peoples' houses the "troop" kills them, but Katniss doesn't kill Snow right away. AND I felt like it was much to easy to get into the mansion, so why didn't people do it before?
nothing about kids names, barely anything about her life with peeta, after the "rebellion" katniss shuts down, which goes agastine that "warrior: feel in the first book ( which was good) and in Catching Fire ( horrible, horrible, horrible0
Julia Hooah, it's an Army thing! wrote: "hated the whole book. no fighting what so ever, very confusing, and when they brake into peoples' houses the "troop" kills them, but Katniss doesn't kill Snow right away. AND I felt like it was muc..."The mansion thing confused me too. And when Katniss didn't kill Snow, I was bummed. He just died on his own, unbothered. He didn't desreve that. Also,I felt a disconnect with Katniss in this one. I never knew what she was going to do. That bothered me. But I still liked the book, mostly.
serena wrote: "Julia Hooah, it's an Army thing! wrote: "hated the whole book. no fighting what so ever, very confusing, and when they brake into peoples' houses the "troop" kills them, but Katniss doesn't kill S..."The book had a depressing feel to it. Some of the deaths were silly ways to die *cough Prim cough*, you read nothing about the characters you LIKED. ( Gale, Effie, Annie etc.)
Collins confirmed the names of the kids: Willow and Rye. Really? All named after bread. Awesome. Willow is extremely dumb. Name her Rue, Prim, ( primrose or just Rose), Madge, her mother's name...
something other than Willow.
Where'd you find that out?? About the kids names? And what's wrong with the name Willow? It's a lovely name
Julia Hooah, it's an Army thing! wrote: "serena wrote: "Julia Hooah, it's an Army thing! wrote: "hated the whole book. no fighting what so ever, very confusing, and when they brake into peoples' houses the "troop" kills them, but Katniss..."I really didn't see the need for Prim to die. And Gale just got super-bloody and shoot-em-up out of nowhere. Maybe Collins needed a reason for Katniss to choose Peeta, but that was a bad one.And Finnick had just gotten married when he died! What the hell would that do to poor Annie? Now that I think about it,you're right- this series just got more and more depressing afetr each book.
Katniss was a pawn from the beginning and never quit being one. I hated the way the book ended, as if all she did and sacrificed was for nothing when her sister dies anyway. I loved the series as a whole, but was let down in the end. As far as the epilogue goes, I think she loved Peeta as much as she could allow herself to love someone at that point and the children were an extension of that. She never wanted them and the fact that she made the choice to have them because Peeta wanted them showed how much she sacrificed again. In my opinion they were a symbol of a cautious optimism, she brought children into the world with hope that it wouldn't let her down again and their lives would not be haunted by the prospect of having to fight to the death in a game for the entertainment of others, however there is going to be some disconnect with a person who suffered so much trauma. A part of her will remain ever fearful of loving them too much.Anyway, I didn't like the ending but I have to say I do understand the epilogue.
Em wrote: "Where'd you find that out?? About the kids names? And what's wrong with the name Willow? It's a lovely name"Willow is a nice name, but Collins could have named her something to do with the died characters ( I didn't know how to put it... :/ ) Collins made Katniss have such a strong bond with Prim, at least name her "Rose".
Julia Hooah, it's an Army thing! wrote: "Em wrote: "Where'd you find that out?? About the kids names? And what's wrong with the name Willow? It's a lovely name"Willow is a nice name, but Collins could have named her something to do with..."
Rose wouldn't have worked, given her aversion to roses after the time with Snow...she about freaked when she thought Peeta was planting regular roses under the window until she realized they were primrose. There is a reason behind the names I'm sure but I'm okay with her leaving them out of the story.
Ryann wrote: "Em wrote: "I didn't love the ending, but I also didn't hate it as much as some people here clearly did. But I think you guys need to seriously get the hell over it. Collins obviously wrote it tha..."
Whoa whoa whoa! Calm down man! There's no need to be like that, not at all! It's okay man, it really is, okay? You don't need to go be all silly like this. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion remember? It's okay to get upset!
I've just had it with everyone's complaints ALL. THE. TIME. Like loosen up guys, it's a book! Haha
Whoa whoa whoa! Calm down man! There's no need to be like that, not at all! It's okay man, it really is, okay? You don't need to go be all silly like this. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion remember? It's okay to get upset!
I've just had it with everyone's complaints ALL. THE. TIME. Like loosen up guys, it's a book! Haha
Julia Hooah, it's an Army thing! wrote: "Em wrote: "Where'd you find that out?? About the kids names? And what's wrong with the name Willow? It's a lovely name"
Willow is a nice name, but Collins could have named her something to do with..."
Oh yes I see what you mean. She should have named the kids something that really meant something to Katniss.
Willow is a nice name, but Collins could have named her something to do with..."
Oh yes I see what you mean. She should have named the kids something that really meant something to Katniss.
Em wrote: "Julia Hooah, it's an Army thing! wrote: "Em wrote: "Where'd you find that out?? About the kids names? And what's wrong with the name Willow? It's a lovely name"Willow is a nice name, but Collins..."
Willow would actually mean something to Katniss and it's a tree SC used a bit in the books. A willow tree is what protected her, shielded her in the Hunger Games. She hid within it from the careers and Peeta, also, the song at end...it's a willow tree that stands guard over the bed of grass that now grows over the grave of those they buried the people of district 12 in the meadow. So, there would be reason behind it.
Everyone is entitled to their feels. I love it! As a writer myself, I love to see how people can get so passionate about literature.
Sherry wrote: "Em wrote: "Julia Hooah, it's an Army thing! wrote: "Em wrote: "Where'd you find that out?? About the kids names? And what's wrong with the name Willow? It's a lovely name"
Willow is a nice name, ..."
Good point. Don't misunderstand me, though, I've always loved the name Willow.
Willow is a nice name, ..."
Good point. Don't misunderstand me, though, I've always loved the name Willow.
Omg! Katniss doesn’t need peeta. Or even gale. What she needs is a therapist to cope with that severe ptsd and depression (similar to her own mother). She seems so detached from her family due to her bad mental health she’s clearly suffering from from the war and games. Not seeing gale after his partial responsibility he played in prims death prob didn’t play a good role towards her health. Could her and gale make it up after the epilogue maybe? Idk
Well, I don't think the epilogue is actually necessary! If it ended after Peeta asked, "You love me, real or not real?" and Katniss said "Real," it would have been great too. But I haven't got a problem with it 🙂! It's okay.
katniss said i will never have kids in case they get put into the games but in the epilogue there is no more hunger games so i don't see what is wrong with her having kids. it is not like she didn't like kids it was that she didn't want her kids to end up in the games and get murdered so i think the epilogue is fine
The epilogue was OK... it had a hopeful vibe to it and I understand that Katniss is still suffering and traumatised by the entire experience but it was unexpected. It's like the author thought, "Katniss suffered so much, didn't she? How about she has kids? Yes! That'll make everything more hopeful!"There was like no hints or big signs in the book which pointed to Katniss, saying "I'm going to have kids!" in neon lights.
I had the audio version and I think I missed the whole epilogue and when I saw the movie I thought they made the whole kid thing up for the movie to satisfy audiences. Then I would hear about people discussing the epilogue and realized somehow I missed it. I loved the ending with the whole real not real thing in the book because I have felt that way too, who hasn't. I would have been happy if it ended with that. With that said the kid thing did not bother me I thought of it as a hopeful sign that the world and Katniss were getting better. Don't they say love heals. You can't live trapped in fear forever, well you can, but you miss out on allot.
She chose to have kids more than 15 years after the events. To judge what her character would do based off the books doesn't make sense. I can assure you I make decisions today that 15 years ago I would have said "never!" to. And I didn't go through a life changing traumatizing series of events like Katniss. I am confused why people keep saying Peeta pushed his desire for kids on Katniss. So he should just sit down and be a good husband and shut the hell up about his dreams and desires? Based on Peeta's character, I don't think he was pushy. Likely, he was just honest about what he wants. Katniss decided freely to have children and probably bore fear the whole time. She pushed through that to build a family which I thought was beautiful. Had she been all doting about her kids and all it would have been a hard sell for her character. But even then who knows what growth she had over 15 years? I suppose this is a YA book so maybe many readers haven't had a chance to see what 15 years can do to change a person. I am 36 so I am pretty close to what Katniss age was in the epilogue and I can assure you my personality looks NOTHING like what I was when I was 18. I liked the ending; especially since the book was poorly constructed and did not serve Katniss well as a character.
I should have been Gale.
Neal wrote: "I do not feel it is as grim an ending as you guys seem to be making it. She all but states that she decided to have kids because she loved Peeta so much. After all they went through, that is defina..."Agree! Although the way Collins worded it made it seem like Katniss hated her own kids, I think the real meaning was to show that she loved Peeta so much she would have children for him, and that she finally felt safe enough to have children( in previous books she didn't want to because of the games).
No no the ending is essential and hides a very optimistic thought : Katniss always said she would never have kids until the world is safe, so behind her shy and evasive words (she's not a direct one about her feelings) she is actually saying that finally it is safe. The children represent and symbolizes this final and complete success. It took up to fifteen years, but that was the time it took her mind to realize the world was safe and she could side with spring and life. (I add spring because of the last healing chapters taking place in spring and because Katniss's birthday is 8th may, as she says in book 1 or 2).
I feel like the epilogue made sense. Yeah, Collins' wording definitely made it seem like Katniss was coerced into having children, but it was likely less of a "hey hey hey I want kids be my baby incubator" and more of Peeta trying to convince her that the war was actually over, that things were safe, that bringing new life into the world wouldn't result in their children being at risk of being thrown into an arena and slaughtered. Katniss had a lot of PTSD from the Games and likely would have decided at a young age, or at least considered very very thoroughly, to not have kids so she wouldn't have to deal with the pain of watching her loved ones be put in danger again and again, year after year until they turn 18 with a minuscule chance of survival. She already had to live through that with Prim, why would she have children so they could be subjected to that? Her having children with Peeta is symbolic of her recognizing Panem's new peace and lack of the Games and allowing her love for her husband to start to overshadow her paranoia and survival instincts. We can still see some of that trauma-based detachment in how she calls her kids "the boy" and "the girl," which I think is just lingering affects from growing up believing any children she had would be subjected to the same traumatic fate that she and her peers were forced into and not a "Katniss had kids she never wanted" red flag.
Kelly wrote: "To all the people who complain about the ending, I thought I'd share my take on it. I have always thought that the end is so abrupt because Katniss is done telling us about her time as a Tribute an..."i totally agree. i never had a problem with it. i honestly thought that it was implied that she loved her children EXTREMELEY, even if she had (in the beggening) been reluctant to have them.
Evelyn wrote: "I feel like the epilogue made sense. Yeah, Collins' wording definitely made it seem like Katniss was coerced into having children, but it was likely less of a "hey hey hey I want kids be my baby in..."this is what i always thought! I thought it was implied that she didn't want children for this reason
Yeah, the epilogue was really bad in my opinion. Katniss showed no connection with Peeta which really bugged me. Like, I understand not immediately falling into each other's arms as they needed to process what they had been through. But it was just a real let down that she made Katniss and Peeta an almost sad ending by the way it was phrased.
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Yes, she will tell us that she and Peeta got married and that she had kids because it reinforces the idea that something good came out of all of that mess, but she's keeping the details (including her kids names) to herself.
As for what happened with her friends and mother, they're not important to the wrap up of the story. It's just that your curiosity wants to be abated, the way the Capital wanted all the nitty-gritty details of her and Peeta's relationship. And Katniss is not giving you that. In this way, she's continuing to protect the ones she loves. You'll get just as much information about them as she chooses to give you.
I always think it helps to think of novels written in the first person as autobiographies, it's just a fictional and not a real historical person who is telling you their life story.
I, for one, can say that if I wrote my autobiography there would be sections of my life or relationships that I would sum up with a line or two because they would be to personal and to private to share with absolutely everyone.