Christian Readers discussion
Mormonism: WHAT IS UP WITH THEM?
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Ben
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May 07, 2009 07:50PM
I have recently been having arguments with Mormon people because of the difference between us and them. I pray to God, hoping they will see past the wrongs of their church. What is up with them?
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The one thing I tell my Mormon family and friends, including others also that it isn't about a religion Christianity is about a relationship.
Very well said Kym! I have had many Mormon friends who have a very tight relationship with Christ. It is NOT my place to judge them, but to love them and support them as Christ would.
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Mormonism believes that Jesus is an exalted man that he was just like us who is also the brother of Satan. This no where in the Bible. Therefore it's someone's belief and idol.
Just because we believe something is true doesn't in no way make it true. The question I ask people is there absolute truth? Many people today that even call themselves Christians say 'abosultely no truth is absolute'. Then how can you say absolutely?
I can not judge another persons soul; only God can do that but, we can show them where their beliefs do not line up with the Bible, The unfalliable word of God.
Many people say what gives me the right to tell someone they are wrong? If you are a believer in the Bibical Christ there is your authority. Jesus told people where they were wrong. Paul and many other phophets, apostles, and disciples also did. We are to do it out of love. If you don't love the person you are talking to my advice is to keep your mouth shut. Harsh some may say but, think about what damamge people do when they say things out of hatered and ignorance. And you can love someone who never met. I believe that love comes from God not me, not of ourselves.
My question is to people no matter what they say their faith is; do you believe in the bibical Christ? If you say you believe does your life show you believe? We don't follow the Bible to earn heaven but, to show our love for the true living God that died on the cross for our sins. Many people say the believe but, the Bible also says, the devil and the demons believe. What is the difference between the demons and Satans belief and our belief? Someone that says they believe in God/Jesus can still go to hell. Because the demons cringe and bow to God. A believer's belief-faith in God is gratitude and respect and love and we follow Him because of our love. Our good deeds do not get us into heaven we do them to show love for what He has done for us not to earn brownie points or earn our way up the ladder.
(I would be more than happy to give your verses if you would like them.)
If anyone would like to learn more differences between Christianity and Mormonism I would be glad to give more examples. I do not hate Mormons. We are all the the same boat- In Need of a LORD and Savior.
There are a lot of religions or sects these days. There are even a lot kinds of christians that fight and argue with their own beliefs.Like "Born again" christians, protestants and Roman Catholic christians.
I am a roman catholic christian and sometimes I hear the stories of arguments between us and the "born again" christians. They question us why we praise Mother Mary?
We don't actually praise her. We show her our love and devotion as respect that she is the mother of God the son. And according to the bible, she has persuaded Jesus in doing miracles and other things because of the fact that she is His mother and that He loves her.
John 2:1-11 when Jesus changed water to wine.
"They have no more wine," she said.
"Dear woman, why do you involve me?" Jesus replied, "My time has not yet come."
With this, He still turned the water to wine as His mother asked Him faithfully.
Even if it wasn't His time, He did as Mary said just proving that she is His mother - she can help us persuade God that we truly are repenting of our sins and she helps us in other ways,too. She, too is our mother of perpetual help.
Anyway, my point is we don't have to argue about religion. I agree with Andrea and Kym, we must love and support each other as Christ would.
SiNgUrL, may I ask why you view "born again" Christians separately from Protestants and Catholics? Do you know that the term (or something very similar, depending on translation) comes straight from the bible?In John 3:3, Jesus says "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." [ESV:]
1 Peter 1:3 says, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead" [ESV:]
I think you are correct though that there is a lot of misunderstanding between people of different backgrounds and doctrines. Sometimes these can be insensitively handled, and the result is that nobody learns anything new, and we all end up being bitter about each other. Not productive, and certainly not Godly!
For myself, I probably fit into the category you term "born again" Christians. I know Catholics generally don't praise Mary as such, but to an outsider, the display of respect can be misinterpreted as idolatry. I also think many Catholics pray to her. Is that correct?
That will likely be the source of some of the misunderstandings you refer to. To many people from a reformed theology, praying to somebody presumes their deity... that is, they only believe in praying to God. As such, praying to Mary would seem like saying she is God.
Another thing I would add is that describing Mary as the "mother of God" probably makes some people uncomfortable too, and makes them think you are exalting her. I know she was literally Jesus' mother... but we know Jesus already existed since the beginning of all things (i.e. before Mary). As such, I would suggest she was really only the mother of His physical body, or His human side, not His deity. Would you agree with that?
Many Christians would also say that Mary was nobody special in herself -- just a regular sinner like the rest of us. It was nothing about her that made her the "mother of God". It was just God's decision, and we don't know why He chose her.
I hope I didn't sound at all disrespectful in any of that. It's good to understand each other! :)
1 Peter 1:3 says, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead" [ESV:]In John 3:3, Jesus says "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." [ESV:]
literally it does say it. Literally.
but to an outsider, the display of respect can be misinterpreted as idolatry. I also think many Catholics pray to her
about Mary as the mother of God.
I have explanations though it's very hard to explain here or by just putting here my point of view because I'm no more than a believer. I mean if I only consider my point of view, I think it would only cause more confusions that we could end up debating about the topic.
And this topic I'm not confident to tackle is covering ideas about the divine trinity: three persons in One God.
I admit I'm afraid to tackle it because I don't want to make misunderstandings as to lies and exaggerations about it that would only make things more confusing.
I hope you understand. :)
As to you being disrespectful, I think you were just making out your point so not at all.
I just want to share my experience though. You see, sometimes I feel angry at something or someone I don't quite undersatnd why and I'm not ready to ask and speak to Jesus or God the father.
I end up crying to Mary thinking she's also my mother. I ask her to help me speak with Jesus or God because I don't know who else to ask for that kind of help and eventually the help comes. :) I can't explain the feeling but talking to her makes me feel cared for and loved.
People may say it's just me being emotional but the feeling is more than that. I don't have to explain it to them because I know the explanation in me. And talking about her in the manner that they make me feel they want to belittle her or dispose her in my heart is not a good feeling fo me, you see. But it's okay. I know you're only making your point. :)
Peace be with us! :)
Thanks for replying. I have never heard of anybody relating to Mary in that way, so I have learned something new! Thank you.I know it can be hard to explain things sometimes. I find that problem with my girlfriend who is Anglican (unlike me!) -- we start discussing an issue, and then suddenly we find there's a whole other topic that we need to explain to each other too, and we sometimes never reach a conclusion!
I would encourage you not to feel like you are "no more than a believer" though. You were wonderfully made by God, and He loves to have you in His family. And don't be afraid of approaching Him in prayer... He's very kind. :)
Thanks a lot Peter. :)Sometimes, I'm just so ashamed of myself that I find it very hard to speak and approach Him. I know He's very kind and that makes me more guilty of having had a dark past behind me.
The real problem with me now is I feel unexplainably angry when I cry with no real reason. It just happens sometimes that I feel weak inside. Like that other night when I had my first try in Bible sharing and I suddenly burst into tears trying to share the most striking words that hit me from the verse we read. So angry that time.
Anyway, thanks again. :)
I've actually been at a similar point before, where I'd cry for no apparent reason. I don't know if it was shame or hurt, or maybe just realising how awesome God is and how much I don't deserve His love!That's often a great place to be, even though it might not feel like it at the time. It can be a sign that God is really touching your heart and that you're getting to know Him personally. It can feel overwhelming, perhaps even frightening, but it's nothing to worry about. God's got you in His hands.
SiNgUrL wrote: "1 Peter 1:3 says, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ ..."There are a lot of wrong doctrine that doesn't line up with scripture in mormonism and catholicism. I studied the bible myself for years attending a church of God church. They were wrong too. A book I picked up to help was kingdom of the cults. It was edited by Ravi Zacharias. I wouldn't hold on to a "church" that doesn't line up with scripture. That is loving the "church" more than loving Jesus and being obedient to his word. The reason I am not flattering any one who wants to preach false doctrine is because flattery isn't a scriptural approach. If there are questions you have let me know.
Kym wrote,"Mormonism believes that Jesus is an exalted man that he was just like us who is also the brother of Satan."
There is the problem right there...here is what Mormonism teaches:
"The appointment of Jesus to be the Savior of the world was contested by one of the other sons of God. He was called Lucifer, son of the morning. Haughty, ambitious, and covetous of power and glory, this spirit-brother of Jesus desperately tried to become the Savior of mankind."
Mormon Doctrine, p. 193
and here is what the bible says:
"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him."
Colossians 1:16
"And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ."
Ephesians 3:9
The facts speak for themselves.
{btw Jesus was not just a man...he is God.}
There is the problem right there...here is what Mormonism teaches:
"The appointment of Jesus to be the Savior of the world was contested by one of the other sons of God. He was called Lucifer, son of the morning. Haughty, ambitious, and covetous of power and glory, this spirit-brother of Jesus desperately tried to become the Savior of mankind."
Mormon Doctrine, p. 193
and here is what the bible says:
"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him."
Colossians 1:16
"And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ."
Ephesians 3:9
The facts speak for themselves.
{btw Jesus was not just a man...he is God.}
Tiffany, I want to know more about what you mean. I didn't quite get it.Thanks :)
Doctrine can be defined as guidelines or commands to follow. God gave us doctrine (commands) in the bible. One is to not forsake the fellowship (by not attending a service whenever or where ever it is held). Another is that Jesus Christ is the only way to the Father (Mary can not make intercession for us only Jesus can. Mary, or any other saint won't and can't nor has ever been given the power to help us in prayer). Another doctrine (command) to follow is that there is to be no head but Jesus Christ and that the definition of a church is a local, visible body of believers. The pope can not be the head. Pope is never used once in the bible, nor is father or reverend to describe the titles or positions servants are to have in the church. Only God is called Father; Only God is reverend. As you can see there are biblical doctrines, and then there are doctrines of men. Catholocism over time has adopted and accepted doctrines of men. That is why I am not catholic.
I am saying what a Mormon woman told me. I asked her point blank "Do you believe in the Trinity?"She replied, "No, in Mormonism, we do not believe in the Trinity like in the Christian faith."
Now that right there is the big deal breaker as to why Mormons are not Christians.
Christian Scriptures say that God is the Trinity of The Father, the Son Jesus Christ, and The Holy Ghost Holy Spirit.
President is not mentioned in the Bible and yet the Mormon Church has a President (President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.) If the Pope cannot be the head of a Church (Catholic), why can a President (Mormons) be the head of a Church? There seems to be a double standard here. I respect all religions by the way.
That is the confusion there.God is the Trinity of The Father, the Son Jesus Christ, and The Holy Ghost Holy Spirit.
Jesus asked God the Father to come here on Earth to save us. And Mary can intercede for us to Jesus and Jesus to God the Father.
It really is confusing.
But God is loving. Everybody can be saved in many ways. In all religions. Not only from a certain religion.
where in the bible does it say that mary can intercede for us? and Jesus said that only He is the way to the father and that You are only saved through him. Stop preaching filth. You are sending people to hell. Go join Oprahs book club.
Mary is honored as the Mother of God. That is the jist of it.
No one can send people to hell. Only people themselves make their own choice on which path to choose.Richard is right.
Okay, so we are saved by Jesus. I know that then tell me... how about Muslims? Will they all just perish because they don't know Jesus?
God loves all his people. There are ways.
Anyway, where in the Bible? Well ask the pope - the ones who were assigned by Jesus Himself to share the Living Words of God.
Peace be with you Tiffany. :) I mean no offense okay? It's not a good thing to tell someone that they are preaching filth because in the goodness of Christ's name, I'm just sharing what I come to believe as a Catholic.
Richard wrote: "Mary is honored as the Mother of God. That is the jist of it. " (honored) St Matthew 12;50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, sister, and mother. Those that are saved mean more to me then my brother, sister, and mother.
When Joseph Smith read about the light that shined about Paul an idea came into his heart. Why not say that it filled the room. Then we have moron-i the angel that gave Joseph the gold plates but decided to take them back. Then there was the mistake in Mo., they built the temple in the wrong place. Good mormans killed over a hundred men, women, and children at the meadow massacre after they refused to sell the wagon train any food in Salt Lake City. Utah. If you read my book, you would find out what I think of Paul.
"Get out of my family, satan. I give you no ground. Get out.As for me and my house we choose to live in Christ as is evidenced by the fruit of Christ's Spirit which is Peace, Love and Joy."
SiNgUrL wrote: "No one can send people to hell. Only people themselves make their own choice on which path to choose.Richard is right.
Okay, so we are saved by Jesus. I know that then tell me... how about M..."
SiNgUrL wrote: "No one can send people to hell. Only people themselves make their own choice on which path to choose.
Richard is right.
Okay, so we are saved by Jesus. I know that then tell me... how about M..."
The word of God says that He is not far from those who seek him and that no one has an excuse(including muslims). Please read the book of Acts. There is a hell. Jesus taught about it more than any one else. We are all called by God, not just the pope. In fact Jesus never appointed the pope over his church. Only He is the Head. The church can have pastors (servants) of a local body of believers. Do please read the bible for yourself. There are warnings to all false teachers (which you are one)because you can and do lead people astray and you will be held accountable.
Tiffany is right about reading the Bible and sticking to the exact words therein. It's what a disciple is, disciplined.I would add that it be a good version of the English Bible as in a King James, Companion, or even an Interlinear Bible. A lot of this false doctrine and confusion here comes from outside sources and faulty versions of English Bibles where the original intent of the original languages is lost.
I'll have no comment about that.I always hear arguments about this though I'm not really the type of person to accuse someone of something because of something they said that isn't agreeable with the point of view of other people.
Thanks for sharing your view, Tiffany. I know you have your own point and I'm sticking with mine,too.
Have a blessed day! :)
Peace and God bless us all! :)
Tiffany wrote: "where in the bible does it say that mary can intercede for us? and Jesus said that only He is the way to the father and that You are only saved through him. Stop preaching filth. You are sending p..."Hey Tiffany, I love your passion. As Christians we have to try and be respectful but you have presented your points very well and you are careful to preach sound doctrine found in the scriptures vs traditions and doctrines of men...or demons. I spent many years witnessing to Mormons at the Joseph Smith home and the sacred grove and have witnessed to my own Catholic family. I pray both groups will some day have their spriritual eyes opened and their hearts softened by God an dturn from false works and embrace the loving grace God offers us. Wasn't going to jump in but again, gotta love your passion! Glenn
The idea of Mary as an intercessor doesn't fit so much. Mary found the favor of God but it doesn't mean she could intercede for all of us. She did her part, Mary's only job is to glorify the presence of the Lord and in this generation, our job is to glorify Him and serve as the model of Christ for the world.In the end we will know who was right or wrong. Be straight with God not straight with religious doctrines. You can't be saved by doctrines.This arguments would never end as long as man- made doctrines are there. It's a worthy thing to rebuke
Pau wrote: "The idea of Mary as an intercessor doesn't fit so much. Mary found the favor of God but it doesn't mean she could intercede for all of us. She did her part, Mary's only job is to glorify the presen..." You said it was Marys job to "glorify the presence of the Lord" The only Gospel that I can find any creditability to Mary is Luke and that is one of the reasons I don't read Luke any more. St Matthew 12;50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother. KJV of 1611. You are right none of the doctrines of any church can save you. That is why I don't go to any church. I have a book out that wouldn't be hard to find you should read it. http://www.google.com/profiles/109344...
That is disobedience my friend. You are outside the protection of God. When my kids are not doing what I tell them to, they are also doing something they're NOT supposed to be doing. They suffer the consequences, and lose out on the blessings. Food and water is good example. If you eat the junk and only some fruits and veggies your not going to get unhealthy overnight, but you will. Also disobeying God by not meditating on EVERY word and forsaking the fellowship will catch up to you. Eating right will help you live long and enjoy life. In other words we can be blessed, but we can also suffer. The Lord says suffer for HIS sake. After all, what is the point when somene suffers even though they "take it like a man" when it was their UNrighteous actions that got them there in the first place?
Tiffany wrote: "That is disobedience my friend. You are outside the protection of God. When my kids are not doing what I tell them to, they are also doing something they're NOT supposed to be doing. They suffer th..."I believe you are refering to what Paul said, He said God sent him to ---Did You ever read St John 5;43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: (Jesus) if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. (Paul who was the advocate for Lucifer) Isaiah 14;14 KJV of 1611
Mickey wrote: "Tiffany wrote: "That is disobedience my friend. You are outside the protection of God. When my kids are not doing what I tell them to, they are also doing something they're NOT supposed to be doing..."I don't understand what you said and I'm not going to ask you what you mean. There is a context for how you should read anything. Ask yourself these questions: Who is the one doing the talking? Who is he speaking to? And What are they talking about? Also consider the language of the day. The same words from 1611 can mean something different than what they do today. I wasn't referring to hell at all when I was talking about suffering the consequences. Consequences and suffering are seen all around us because of ouselves. Heart disease and lung cancer are examples just to name a few.But God wants us to be blessed and that is why He gave us commands.
Paul did not come in his own name, but gave Jesus Christ all the credit for any good that he could do, any perseverance he had and how he was able to survive against all odds on several occasions. I hope this helps you.
Church serve as the place for the sheeps of God, the best credible doctrine for church is that the members of the church should be an example to others, an example of how our Lord saved us and how He lived for us. Attend chuch, extract the righteous words, if the church made mistakes, tell directly.
lol I'm not fit to preach or argue.I was just sharing my point of view according to experience.
Keep it up guys! God is happy that we're talking about Him and His Words.
Tiffany wrote: "Mickey wrote: "Tiffany wrote: "That is disobedience my friend. You are outside the protection of God. When my kids are not doing what I tell them to, they are also doing something they're NOT suppo..." Paul said a lot of things but was it the truth. Even those around him questioned what He was saying. It was easy to say Jesus Christ was behind what he did, and then he said all scripture is by the inspiration of God. If you were phony couldn't you say these kind of things. Then we have the silly conversion with the light shining about him. God is power, His creation proves it, but He said, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures nor the power of God. St Matthew 22;29 Jeremiah 27;5 I have made the earth, the man and the beast that are upon the ground, by my great power and by my outstretched arm,---. If you have ever read the Old Testament It gives the explanation of what it means to be born again and receiving the Holy Ghost. Jesus spoke in allegory parables so you can't find what it means in the New Testament and Paul certainly never knew. KJV of 1611 Ezekiel 36;26,25,(a person must be clean before the Holy Ghost will enter into your body) 27 26, A new heart also will I give you, (The heart I was born with was removed and replaced by one from God) and a new spirit will I put within you: (Holy Ghost as Jesus received in St Matthew 3;16 ) It went in His mouth and down His throat. You said God wants us to be blessed. Genesis 6;6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
It's getting better and better but remember to glorify God after every arguments.
Haha we worry about the small things of God to much. If we are truly search after His heart then we will know what is right. It is not our place to tell other Christians how to live unless they are using the name of Jesus and not getting to know Him, then we cannot let His name be sullied
As someone who has attended various Christian denominations, I have respect for all beliefs regardless of whether or not I agree with them. I have heard so many people say that somebody else is wrong and why... but truth is something that we all have to find out for ourselves through study, prayer and guidance from the Holy Spirit. Make no mistake— Mormonism is a Biblical faith. At some point, every sect of Christianity offers a different interpretation on Biblical passages. There is much that we all agree on and there are portions on which we disagree. The important thing, above all, is that we all believe in Christ as our Savior and that we have a personal relationship with Him and the Father.
Mormonism is NOT a Biblical faith! It is a cult based on Joseph Smiths lies.
Janette wrote: "Mormonism is NOT a Biblical faith! It is a cult based on Joseph Smiths lies."First commandment is not to have any God's before the true God. As stated a Mormon has the foundation of Joseph smith which the bible states no other foundation can be laid , but Jesus chrism. This makes Joseph their God before the 1 true God. Also sex and money from the occult is part of their god's also.
Glenn wrote: "Tiffany wrote: "where in the bible does it say that mary can intercede for us? and Jesus said that only He is the way to the father and that You are only saved through him. Stop preaching filth. Y..."I am impressed by your witness and charity on this thread.
Janette wrote: "Mormonism is NOT a Biblical faith! It is a cult based on Joseph Smiths lies."Janette, Indeed it is biblical. Specifically, what "lies" did Joseph tell and could you provide reference for them?
Karen, Joseph Smith was a prophet, similar to those found in the Bible. We do not place him above Jesus Christ. Neither did Joseph. That is why we are the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Not the church of Joseph Smith... but Jesus Christ. The Bible actually states that apostles and prophets are the foundation of Christ's Church (Eph 2:20). Christ is the cornerstone. "Sex and money from the occult"?! lol. Seriously? Karen, what on earth do you base this on?
Ok so biblical in the sense that Mormons have a concept of what is written in the Bible. They use the Bible/Jesus Christ/God as a means to an end. That end being the conversion to Joseph smith's beliefs, the Book of Mormon, and other unbiblical beliefs. I think Mormons truly believe they are bringing people to belief in Christ. However, they don't believe that Jesus is enough to get them to Heaven.
Their belief starts out biblical then they add their twist. For instance:
They believe that Jesus is the son of God. They also believe Lucifer is a son of God (Jesus' brother in fact) and we are all son's of God. That someday they will become gods themselves (if they do it right). That Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit(or Holy Ghost) are 3 separate gods.
They believe they are saved through belief in Jesus (not by grace). They believe there are multiple heavens and in order to enter the highest heaven they not only have to believe in Jesus they also have to go through a special ceremony, wear special underwear, have faith is Joseph Smith and follow his teachings.
Traditional Christians believe the Bible is our yardstick/our standard for Truth. Mormons believe their feelings are their yardstick for truth, prompted by the Holy Spirit. You see, We believe that while the Holy Spirit does prompt us and give us confirmation of Truth. We rely on the Bible to back up those feelings/promptings. Jerimiah 17:9 says The heart is deceitful above all things... Proverbs 28:26 says He that trusts in his own heart is a fool.
Uh Oh! This is about to get nasty. (Sorry Christopher)I'll try and be nice though.
Christopher quote:
"Make no mistake— Mormonism is a Biblical faith."
Christopher do you believe Islam is a Biblical faith? How about Hinduism? How about all the other religions that appreciate Jesus and borrow from the Bible? Someone has got to be wrong.
There's a reason the Bible has roughly 31,000 verses: God thought it would be useful if we read them ALL. And guess what - they all fit perfectly together. (and to those that don't think that - please read the Bible again...slower this time.)
I could give a huge list of all the differences between Mormonism and Christianity: but it wouldn't matter. I have yet to meet a Mormon who who reads the Bible and trusts that it has been well preserved by God from the beginning. (Muslims have the same problem - the Bible has been distorted they say). If it is God's word then it Will BE protected.
Here's how to simply find the truth:Do what the thief on the cross did. Luke 23:39-43
This guy actually made it to heaven.
No magic underwear, no Holy shrines, no special knowledge and altered truths, no joseph smiths or buddha's or muhammads. Just Jesus and HIS Kingdom.
So incredibly simple.
The problem is for those of us who aren't about to die on a cross beside Jesus. That is why God gave us the other 29,995 verses (rough estimate).
Rod wrote: "Uh Oh! This is about to get nasty. (Sorry Christopher)I'll try and be nice though.
Christopher quote:
"Make no mistake— Mormonism is a Biblical faith."
Christopher do you believe Islam is a Bibl..."
Considering what the Bible has been through over the years, it has been well preserved. However, there are issues. Mormons believe the Bible to be the word of God, so far as it is translated correctly. For example, which translation do you use? I have compared different versions. Although they are, for the most part, very similar, there are some passages that are very different. Others, leaving out a few words here and there, present possiblity of completely different meanings. As a result, how many different types of evangelicals are there today? So, which Bible version do you consider to be most well preserved?
The thief on the cross did not go to Heaven that day. He went to paradise. You should know that days later, the resurrected Savior said that He hadn't yet ascended to His Father (who is in Heaven). Therefore, if Christ hadn't been to Heaven yet, then the thief did not go to Heaven with Christ that day... he went to another place called paradise, as the verse states. Further evidence is that the theif had not been baptized and Christ taught baptism is essential to enter Heaven (Mark 16:16). I'm sure you're familiar with Mormon practice of baptism for the dead, as mentioned by the Apostle Paul in Corinthians. That ordinance would need to be performed before the theif could enter Heaven. Furthermore, going to Heaven is not something that happens until after Christ returns and there is a day of resurrection and judgement (Rev 20-22).
Why do you make fun of our temple garments by calling them "magic underwear"? That is not a very nice thing to do. We do not consider them to be "magical". Sacred, or holy, yes.. but not magical. You should know that in biblical times, Aaron wore holy temple undergarments (Exodus 28:2,42). Do you make fun of those as well?
Janette wrote: "Ok so biblical in the sense that Mormons have a concept of what is written in the Bible. They use the Bible/Jesus Christ/God as a means to an end. That end being the conversion to Joseph smith's ..."You are mistaken. Mormons believe that without the grace of Christ, no one could go to Heaven. It is only through Him that it is done. However, in order to be saved and go to Heaven, there has to be an acceptance of Christ and a willingness to live His teachings. We must become a "new creature," as the Bible teaches.
We believe the Godhead to be three separate personages. This is how Stephen experienced all three members of the Godhead. As he was filled with the Holy Spirit, he looked up into Heaven and saw God with Jesus standing at His right side (Acts 7:55-56).
Christ taught that God is His Father and our Father... and not only that but that Heavenly Father is our God AND His God. Jesus has a God and it is the same one we have (John 20:17, KJV). See also Eph 1:2-3, 1Cor 11:3. On the cross, Jesus said, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" He wasn't talking to Himself. He was speaking to a separate personage. Eph 4:6 says that God is the God and Father of ALL. It doesn't say all, except Lucifer. It says all. It's interesting that non-Mormons make a bigger deal of this that what it really is. Simply, if He is the Father of all, that includes Lucifer, who by the way is fallen without any chance of redemption. He is also the Father of Cain, Hitler, and any other evil being. You see, God gives us freedom to choose our own path. These individuals chose the wrong one. Really, no different than Adam having both Cain and Abel, you see.
The heart can be deceitful. It's true, we should not trust in our own self to provide answers. We should, however trust in our self to find those answers. Jerimiah 17:9 is often quoted to Mormons. The thing is, you forget what precedes that verse. Verse 5 says that cursed is he whose heart departs from God and trusts in man. To someone who has let this happen, they are lost and their heart is become deceitful.
However, it is also important to note that the heart can be trusted and it can even be purified(Matt 5:8; James 4:8; Psalm 51:10; Acts 15:7-9). Prov 4:23 says, "Keep thy heart with all diligence for out of it are the issues of life."
Christ taught that trusting the heart is the key to conversion. In order to be converted to the gospel, we must understand and believe with our heart (Matt 13:15; Luke 24:25).
Deureronomy 4:29 teaches that if we seek God with all our heart then we will find Him. If you seek God with your heart, then it is by the means of it that you will find Him. Then, should we not trust that feeling? There are those in scripture who did.
"And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?" (Luke 24:32).
"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? (Acts 2:36-37).
"And as soon as we had heard these things, our hearts did melt, neither did there remain any more courage in any man, because of you: for the Lord your God, he is God in heaven above, and in earth beneath. (Joshua 2:11).
You see, what these people were experiencing was the Holy Ghost confirming the truth of what they were being taught. Indeed, these people trusted the feelings that the Holy Ghost gave them in their heart.
