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Using God's name in vain
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message 51:
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Gillian
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Jun 23, 2014 12:50PM
God is one of Jehovah's names, though. God means " The Lord ". God is The Lord , who reigns over all. God has many names, each explaining aspects of His character.
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Dictionary definition of the Name God : "The creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being." quote.
The dictionary definition you quoted still does not specify WHICH God. Christians believe that Yahweh or Jehovah is the creator of the universe (even though they refuse to use his name - how insulting).Muslims believe it was Allah. Hindu's believe it was Vishnu. Ancient Greeks believed it was Zeus.
You said it yourself, "God means Lord", God is "The Lord". That's WHAT He is - NOT his name.
The dictionary also defines "nurse" as someone who cares for the sick or infirm. Does that mean that all nurses are named "Nurse"? No, it's WHAT they are, not their name.
Which nurse? Maria the nurse, or Gillian the nurse. Which God? Jehovah, Yahweh, Allah, Zeus, Vishnu ?
This is not hard. The only reason people are "refusing" to get it, or acknowledge it, is because it would mean they'd have to admit they are not using God's name - and they know that's not correct.
Maria, go away. I'm sick of your conversation. Goodbye
Carrie wrote: "Maria, go away. I'm sick of your conversation. Goodbye"Who do you think you are telling someone to go away? If you don't like what I post, don't read it. But don't think that you have the authority to make someone stop posting their opinions. You don't.
gertt - I agree that God knows who he is and he knows who we are praying to. Yea! We agree on something. And Jesus certainly did cry out from the torture stake "my God my God, etc.".
Next question - if Jesus and God are the same person/entity, who was he calling out to?
Im just saying what everyone else is thinking, Maria.
So you're psychic as well! Now, anyone want to discuss this question?
Jesus certainly did cry out from the torture stake my God my God, etc. Question - if Jesus and God are the same person/entity, who was he calling out to?
gertt - great - I am so glad you don't believe in the Trinity where it is unscripturally taught that God and Jesus are the same person. Jesus was calling out to God, his Father - an entirely different person/entity from himself. Yes. Perfect.And, please do the research. The "cross" came into play when the Catholics in the time of Emperor Constantine were trying to "convert the natives" - the Taoists to Christianity. They had a religious symbol - a big "T" - a phallic symbol actually, that they worshipped.
Well that would not work with the Christian religion, so they told them "hey, rather than a torture stake that criminals of Jesus' day were consistently killed on - we will concede - you can have your "T" - we'll just lower the horizontal line a bit - lo and behold, it's a Cross!"
This is from the Encyclopedia Brittanica - check it out.
Also, let's just say, for giggles, that is was an actual cross. The cross was the "murder weapon". If your son was shot - and the murder weapon was a shotgun - would you want your friends and relatives to wear a gold shotgun around their neck? Of course not.
Then why, if the cross was used to kill Jesus - his "murder weapon" - would his Father want people to wear gold representations of it around their necks?
Food for thought, no?
The word "Trinity" is not in any translation of the Bible that I have ever come across. If you have found it in the Bible, please let me know the book, chapter and verse. Such a very important doctrine in Christianity - shouldn't some prophet or gospel writer have actually mentioned the term?Jesus was killed as a common criminal in the manner that all criminals were killed at that time under Roman law. Death on a torture stake.
I know it's hard to swallow, but please look it up. I did not make up the cross thing. It's in the encyclopedia, really.
I know, I know - Jesus said to his apostles in the book of John - "I and the Father are one". Trinity, right? Well, no. First of all that's two, not three.
Second, in a few verses down, same chapter of John, Jesus tells his apostles "we are all one, just as the Father and I are one.". So - are all twelve apostles, and Jesus, all one entity? God in thirteen persons?
Of course not, Jesus meant one in purpose, one in thought, one in belief - not the ridiculous notion that all of them were somehow one person... seriously.
Also "if you've seen me you've seen the Father". Yes, a Trinity explanation - no. My son, age 20 is the spitting image in looks, mannerisms and actions as my husband. Many people have told me if you've seen Justin (son) you've seen Bryan (hubby). True. But they are two separate (but very similar) individual entities.
Trinity de-bunked.
It's ok. You would rather generalize right now and "bless me". That's fine. But know that I did not make this up. I beg you to do the research yourself. If it does not make logical sense- it's probably not true. Three persons in one, separate but not. NOT Biblical.
Rather than comment on the particular verses I mentioned you generalize and still cling to childhood beliefs.
What about the cross thing? No comment? Did you look it up?
What about the so-called Christian holidays that are entirely based on pagan traditions. Christmas, Easter, Halloween. Ok to celebrate even though pagan in origin?
I understand, gertt. It took me years, yes YEARS to even begin to question doctrine I had been taught all my life.
You can't do it in 10 minutes on a chat post. But please take the time to research it yourself with an open mind.
gertt said "NOTE: I deleted several of my comments to Maria because this is not the time or place for this discussion and I respect other people's religious beliefs, even though they may differ from my own."I'm sorry you felt the need to delete your comments. I don't agree that this is not the time or place for this discussion. It's a thread about using God's name - we were discussing our beliefs and opinions about who we believe God and Jesus are and are not.
If you personally don't feel comfortable discussing it, that's fine, but it's entirely appropriate as a topic for discussion - for those who wish to do so.
I think you feel that if you take the time to think about a belief that differs from your own, you are being disloyal somehow. And even more scary is if what the other person says makes sense and makes you question your own beliefs. Which, by the way, is OK to do.
I don't feel that way, but if you do, then you are right to bow out of the discussion.
Jesus is God. That is Biblical. The trinity is Biblical: Three blessed persons in one God. Just because we can not fully understand everything in Scripture does not mean it is not correct. God's mind is much greater then ours, and He understands all things. It does not say in God's Word that we are sinning by calling The Lord "God", so long as we are not using God's name as a curse word.
John 10 : 30 Jesus said : "I and The Father are one."
Gillian. Yes, Jesus did say "I and the Father are one." Read a few verses down. He then tells his 12 apostles "we are all one just as I and the father are one". So by your logic, Jesus and all 12 apostles are all one and the same entity - they are all "one" just as Jesus and "the Father are one".
Ridiculous right? All 13 of them are one person? Not literally. They are all ONE in belief, ONE in purpose, ONE in thought....
If you single out those six words in the Bible, then if you absolutely have no common sense then yes, you might assume Jesus meant one and the same person.
Besides, by my count, that is TWO. Not THREE (Trinity is 3, right).
If the Trinity is Biblical, then please show me, chapter and verse, where that word is mentioned in any translation. It's not in there.
Why did Jesus say "the Father is greater than I am"? Why did he say he came to earth to do the will of "the one that sent me"? Who sent him? Is he going to sit at his own right hand? Who's right hand is he sitting by?
Who was he praying to for help in the garden, to "take this cup away from me..."? Himself? And if he was God, why did he need help?
He was a great man. He deserves our praise and thanks for dying so that we could all live. He is God's SON - deserving our adoration and undying loyalty. But he is NOT God. It's an insult to God to make his Son equal to Him.
There are so many logical things that totally debunk the Trinity. Why are so many "Christians" not able to see it?
Oh, yeah - the blind leading the blind, that's right. Jesus called the Pharisees "blind guides". Guess he knew what would happen in our time....
I call my father dad. I don't use his proper name, because to do so would seem so formal and stilted. I know his name, yes, but I don't use it in conversation with and about him. The same, I feel, relates to God. I have a personal and intimate relationship with Him. Do I know that his "name" is not God? Sure. I know my father's name is not "Dad". It does not change my relationship with them.Also, here is a very good article about the trinity. Do I expect you to change your belief? Nope. But I thought a little reference might be helpful.
https://bible.org/article/trinity-tri...
April - that does indeed make sense about calling your father DAD. Good point.Of course, I don't expect anyone to change their beliefs over my comment on a goodreads thread.
However,I would like to discuss our beliefs in a mature adult manner if there are any takers.
I posed a few questions in my previous post. When I thought rationally about these questions I did question my belief in a concept I had been taught my entire Catholic life: The Trinity.
I posed these questions to my local priest - he hemmed, hawed and stuttered and made some silly remarks about how I was questioning "holy" things I "wasn't meant to understand".
Sorry, I don't buy it. I think God provided the Bible so we COULD understand things, not to confuse us.
In the interest of discussion only, NOT to preach or change anyone's beliefs:
Is there anyone out there that believes in the Trinity that would like to answer these questions I posed earlier? Not just tell me I'm wrong and that the Trinity is Biblical. Actually try to answer the questions...
"Why did Jesus say "the Father is greater than I am"? Why did he say he came to earth to do the will of "the one that sent me"? Who sent him? Is he going to sit at his own right hand? Who's right hand is he sitting by?
Who was he praying to for help in the garden, to "take this cup away from me..."? Himself? And if he was God, why did he need help?"
I'm all ears....
The way I have always understood (and I use that term loosely, lol) is that they are separate but still one. I know it doesn't make sense. Any way I try to explain it, it doesn't make sense. God is the Father, Jesus is the Son and the Holy Spirit is the "essence" (for lack of a better word). They are split apart to do their specific "tasks", but are essentially one. Again, it makes sense in my brain, but I can't articulate it very well. It also may come down to the fact that I accept that I will never fully understand it. That doesn't bother me. Some people (my husband being one of them) can't just leave it at that. They want to analyze and understand...and that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it will cause certain problems with theology and "faith" issues. Not that they don't have enough faith, it's just not as easy for them to accept mystical things.
Simon wrote: "Blasphemy is a victimless crime."Nice one.
Rachel Paige wrote: "What's wring with the word gosh? It's the same number of syllables, so you aren't using any more time to say it, the first two letters are the same. Grammatically speaking, it makes sense in the most used "oh my gosh!"Goodness works most of the time gosh does not.
"
These are just another way of saying "Oh my God". It is the same thing. But for those that are easily offended, there is the YA genre.
gertt wrote: "Holy Trinity - three Divine persons (the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit) one Divine essence or nature (God). Although the word Trinity isn't used, this is supported by Scripture..1John 5:7..."
Hi gertt:
It does seem to be supported by the Scriptures you cited. I've heard "supported by Scripture" ad nauseum. No one wants to actually discuss the bones of it.
But it's not supported by common sense. I'd like to hear your thoughts on these specific questions, if you have any:
1) Why did Jesus say "the Father is greater than I am"? Why did he say he came to earth to do the will of "the one that sent me"? Who sent him?
2) Is he going to sit at his own right hand? Who's right hand is he sitting by?
3) Who was he praying to for help in the garden, to "take this cup away from me..."? Himself? And if he was God, why did he need help?
April - I see exactly what you mean. You believe it but can't explain it in a way that makes sense. That's ok. I get what you're saying. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs - just as everyone is entitled to question doctrine and ask that it be explained.
I think I'm more like your husband - I need a logical explanation - not just a mystical story.
Your repsonse is the most insightful and respectful response I've been given and I appreciate it.
gertt wrote: "YA, Teen, and even Christian genres often deal with subject matters and language which may be unpleasant...it may not be graphic or harsh, but some readers may still find it offensive."True. I say if you are reading a book and you are offended, put it down. Simple. But don't criticize the author - it may not have been offensive to them, or to anyone else.
If it offends you, don't read it.
Maria wrote: "gertt wrote: "Holy Trinity - three Divine persons (the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit) one Divine essence or nature (God). Although the word Trinity isn't used, this is supported by Script..."
Maria,
With so much religious strife in the world it is nice that Americans are finally starting to challenge some of the truly Bizarre ideas we find in religion. Your post here would have been considered rude (sacrilegious) a few years back at the time I was growing up in the south. I think that is changing in our culture.
More to your point though, I give you Thomas Jefferson who said...
"It is too late in the day for men of sincerity to pretend they believe in the Platonic mysticisms that three are one, and one is three; and yet that the one is not three, and the three are not one . . . But this constitutes the craft, the power and the profit of the priests. Sweep away their gossamer fabrics of factitious religion, and they would catch no more flies. We should all then, like the Quakers, live without an order of priests, moralize for ourselves, follow the oracle of conscience, and say nothing about what no man can understand, nor therefore believe."
Jefferson hit it spot on. Thanks! I've never seen that quote before.Totally agree that there would be no more power or profit to Christendom, the Catholic church in particular, if the common man was able to understand the great "mysteries" of the Bible.
That's why people were burned at the stake long ago if they owned a personal copy of the Bible. God forbid (pun intended) that anyone should read it for themselves and figure out that some of the "doctrines" are not in there....
Not only would they stop giving money to liars, they would ask the priests (as I did) to explain the discrepancy to them - and of course they can't. Thus the loss of power.
Jesus did not "lord" himself over his followers. He said over and over again that he came to serve others. He washed his apostles feet for God's sake. Can you see a priest doing that?
Jesus constantly chastised the Scribes and Pharisees for "lording" their position over people. Called them hypocrites and offspring of vipers. They were the religious leaders of that time....
Once again, I am not drinking the kool-aid - when Jesus was on earth he preached to everyone - lepers, prostitutes, tax collectors - as well as soldiers, Pharisees, etc - and there was no big mystery in what he taught....and you didn't have to wear a special robe and collar to understand his message.
Don't you think that if he was God incarnate, he might have mentioned it while he was here? He NEVER claimed to be God - he made a HUGE point of giving honor and glory to his FATHER, who deserved it. Jesus actually stopped people from worhsipping him, saying it only GOD who is to be worshipped.
That being said, the only thing I slightly disagree with is following "the oracle of conscience" alone. We do need some guidelines and sometimes rules - because some people either don't have a conscience or they have a really screwed up one.
Jefferson and many of the framers didn't believe Jesus divine. A personal supernatural being didn't exist in their universe. Jefferson edited the bible to remove all the miracles, the virgin birth and the resurrection; He left the words of Jesus and the actual teachings of Christ. You can still get the Jefferson Bible.Jefferson said... "abstracting what is really his from the rubbish in which it is buried, easily distinguished by its lustre from the dross of his biographers, and as separate from that as the diamond from the dung hill."
As for the need for rules, Madison and Jefferson provided for that as well. We call it a constitution. There is no need for rule making by clergymen.
True - the constitution is there. And I certainly think that clergy have no business making any rules - they certainly don't follow them when they employ prostitutes and molest little boys.I just meant that "moral compass" for lack of a better term - has to come from somewhere other than from within a person - should come from parents and others in the community (?) Maybe...
The constitution doesn't tell people to be respectful of their parents and other "elders". It doesn't tell them to treat people with kindness and help them when they need it...
I am afraid our moral compass has long sense broke. We will either cooperate and function together or we will go extinct. I suspect it will be extinct.Highly socialized species do tend to survive - look at the ants for example. We are a socialized species as well and the evolution of a believing mind is part of that. But our technology allows us a footprint much greater than our size. And some of that socialization leads to self destruction.
Remember - over 95% of all species have gone extinct.
OK gertt - here we go again. What scripture are you referring to where it says that mankind will be extinct?My Bible says that "the righteous will possess the earth and shall reside forever upon it" Psalms 37:29.
It also says that the meek shall inherit "the earth".
When you pray the Lord's Prayer (Matthew 6:9) you are praying to God for "thy kingdom come, thy will be done ON EARTH as it is in heaven."
Also, Matthew 5:29 speaks of a resurrection of the righteous - where are we resurrected to? Heaven? We're already there as soon as we die, right? At least our souls are. Will our physical bodies be there to meet up with our souls at a later date?
I don't see how since the Bible also says that flesh and blood cannot inherit God's heavenly realm....
Sorry I misquoted you, gertt. I looked these up and your statements have merit. What comments do you have about the ones I mentioned in message 98 above and how they point to mankind living on earth forever (vs. going to heaven)?
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